Post by: 2brew559 on January 07, 2016, 07:16:42 AM
My 1st attempt at a Schwartz... Lol
Am I hot, cold or more like get outa here with this jack!
Thinking maybe Belgian caravienne for the Crystal.. Good stuff..
Method: All Grain
Style: Schwarzbier
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.3 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.038 (recipe based estimate)
Efficiency: 80% (brew house)
Source: 2brew559
Original Gravity: 1.050
Final Gravity: 1.011
ABV (standard): 5.09%
IBU (tinseth): 27.88
SRM (morey): 20.96
Mash temp: 152F @ 1.55qts
Yeast: wlp830 lager ferment at: ? And how???
Never made lager
Yeast pitch rate: pro lager 1.75
Fermentables
Amount Fermentable PPG °. L Bill %
6 lb German - Pilsner 38 1.6L 64.2%
2.25 lb German - Dark Munich 36 10L 24.1%
0.5 lb German - CaraMunich II 34 46L 5.3%
0.6 lb Patagonia Black Pearl Malt28 340L 6.4%
9.35 lb Total
Hops
Amount Variety Type AA Use Time IBU
0.4 oz Magnum Pellet 13.7 Boil 60 min 21.17
1 oz Saaz Pellet 3.5 Boil 15 min 6.71
Hops Summary
Amount Variety Type AA
0.4 oz Magnum Pellet 13.7
1 oz Saaz Pellet 3.5
Mash Guidelines
Amount Description Type Temp Time
3.62 gal Mash in Infusion 152 F 60 min
4.85 gal Mash out Sparge 168 F 0 min
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.55 qt/lb
Post by: The Beerery on January 07, 2016, 03:57:58 PM
Post by: blatz on January 07, 2016, 04:11:45 PM
I have a nice Schwartz on tap at the moment - generally same ball park with the malt bill, but with less black malt, and of the dehusked variety. A bit less IBUs. I use tinseth across all my beers, but I'd be interested to hear why Bryan prefers one of the other formulae.
I also added the black malt just prior to beginning the sparge, but that apparently is a controversial (read: wrong) way of doing things.
Post by: The Beerery on January 07, 2016, 04:17:34 PM
But the target of 27ibu's from OP, could have just been blind luck. But its pretty close to what I would target using tinseth off of BSAG for this beer.
Post by: gman23 on January 07, 2016, 04:23:16 PM
Post by: 2brew559 on January 07, 2016, 05:09:13 PM
I am interested why you chose to target 27ibu tinseth? Its not a knock at all, but I find that quite intriguing.
I look at the BUGU ratios style targets and target that. So far its worked nicely....I might add
So if its 58 I go 59 etc...depends on factors too.. As I learn more the malts I am learning to adjust the ratios to coordinate with the grist.....maybe I'm wrong???
I'm still.learning so I'd love to find out how you guys do it :)
Post by: 2brew559 on January 07, 2016, 05:28:47 PM
I hear Patagonia is good stuff however I just use carafa III special to keep it German although my recipe is by no means authentic or traditional at all. My grain bill is pretty similar to yours except I can get away with less black malt because it has a higher L rating. I think mine is about 3-4% carafa...
Patagonia Negra has a cleaner taste ..its like a perfectly brewed expresso coffee smooth as silk....Carafa is good too..
In the hot tea I made previously with the Patagonia. It was really good, smooth nutty, chocolaty coffeeish.. Somentime later out of curiosity...I chewed on some carafa and Patagonia both are great...But too me my palate... The Patagonia was the better tasting too me.. Says alot when you chew on roasted malts...
Also....
This guy, vistor at the brew shop 20 yrs of brewing ...said yea he prefers the Patagonia as well " Awesome tasting Dehusked Malt"
I concur!
Post by: 2brew559 on January 07, 2016, 05:33:39 PM
I'm not familiar with the Patagonia malt - is that dehusked?
I have a nice Schwartz on tap at the moment - generally same ball park with the malt bill, but with less black malt, and of the dehusked variety. A bit less IBUs. I use tinseth across all my beers, but I'd be interested to hear why Bryan prefers one of the other formulae.
I also added the black malt just prior to beginning the sparge, but that apparently is a controversial (read: wrong) way of doing things.
Blatz, the Malt is debittered and Dehusked.....very smooth stuff!
I just used it recently in my Porter and Milk Stout...
Tasted the Wort before booking..wow and the aromas...
Was like willy Wonkas chocalte with expresso coffee aromas!
Post by: 2brew559 on January 07, 2016, 06:00:29 PM
Actually I don't use any of the American ones. I use BSAG, or utilization. BSAG says that an IBU is 1 mg/l isomerized alpha acid in the post boil wort. So bitterness = (utilization * AA% * hop weight) / final wort volume.
But the target of 27ibu's from OP, could have just been blind luck. But its pretty close to what I would target using tinseth off of BSAG for this beer.
See I just learned something new...
And since you brought the BSAG..Now you gotta teach me..lol
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Post by: gman23 on January 07, 2016, 06:17:02 PM
I hear Patagonia is good stuff however I just use carafa III special to keep it German although my recipe is by no means authentic or traditional at all. My grain bill is pretty similar to yours except I can get away with less black malt because it has a higher L rating. I think mine is about 3-4% carafa...
Patagonia Negra has a cleaner taste ..its like a perfectly brewed expresso coffee smooth as silk....Carafa is good too..
In the hot tea I made previously with the Patagonia. It was really good, smooth nutty, chocolaty coffeeish.. Somentime later out of curiosity...I chewed on some carafa and Patagonia both are great...But too me my palate... The Patagonia was the better tasting too me.. Says alot when you chew on roasted malts...
Also....
This guy, vistor at the brew shop 20 yrs of brewing ...said yea he prefers the Patagonia as well " Awesome tasting Dehusked Malt"
I concur!
Sounds great. I just wonder what the difference in the final product is when using 6% vs half as much as something darker. When all is equal it could very well be much smoother but what happens when there is twice as much? Just a thought...I don't have any experience with that kind of stuff...
Post by: The Beerery on January 07, 2016, 06:23:57 PM
Actually I don't use any of the American ones. I use BSAG, or utilization. BSAG says that an IBU is 1 mg/l isomerized alpha acid in the post boil wort. So bitterness = (utilization * AA% * hop weight) / final wort volume.
But the target of 27ibu's from OP, could have just been blind luck. But its pretty close to what I would target using tinseth off of BSAG for this beer.
See I just learned something new...
And since you brought the BSAG..Now you gotta teach me..lol
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
I just did ;) The formula is there. The hard part is the utilization factor, which ranges from 25-30%, depending on beer pH, and other things.
Post by: 2brew559 on January 07, 2016, 06:37:34 PM
I hear Patagonia is good stuff however I just use carafa III special to keep it German although my recipe is by no means authentic or traditional at all. My grain bill is pretty similar to yours except I can get away with less black malt because it has a higher L rating. I think mine is about 3-4% carafa...
Patagonia Negra has a cleaner taste ..its like a perfectly brewed expresso coffee smooth as silk....Carafa is good too..
In the hot tea I made previously with the Patagonia. It was really good, smooth nutty, chocolaty coffeeish.. Somentime later out of curiosity...I chewed on some carafa and Patagonia both are great...But too me my palate... The Patagonia was the better tasting too me.. Says alot when you chew on roasted malts...
Also....
This guy, vistor at the brew shop 20 yrs of brewing ...said yea he prefers the Patagonia as well " Awesome tasting Dehusked Malt"
I concur!
Sounds great. I just wonder what the difference in the final product is when using 6% vs half as much as something darker. When all is equal it could very well be much smoother but what happens when there is twice as much? Just a thought...I don't have any experience with that kind of stuff...
I think I understand what you'd saying..
So instead of using Patagonia Negra @ 6%
Use Umm Carafa II @ 3 %.
I was conflicted with same scenario making the recipe and go with darker Carafa or Patagonia at double. %.. well I'm adventurous... Lol but like I was saying the Patagonia. Is some real deal stuff..its my new dark sexy lady..lol.
Sounds like a good test ...hmm..maybe I brew 2 versions Carafa 2 at 3% and keep the 6%
Also..maybe..possibily.... In my brain I'm thinking...that if something taste a certain way..then if you increase or double does it change the flavor. Or just the intensity....and to what degree...??
Ok you brew it..lol
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Post by: 2brew559 on January 07, 2016, 08:07:35 PM
Ok so here's how I got to the IBUs(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160107/1d4da8339665fe118dcc65f84b3f7d60.jpg)Actually I don't use any of the American ones. I use BSAG, or utilization. BSAG says that an IBU is 1 mg/l isomerized alpha acid in the post boil wort. So bitterness = (utilization * AA% * hop weight) / final wort volume.
But the target of 27ibu's from OP, could have just been blind luck. But its pretty close to what I would target using tinseth off of BSAG for this beer.
See I just learned something new...
And since you brought the BSAG..Now you gotta teach me..lol
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
I just did ;) The formula is there. The hard part is the utilization factor, which ranges from 25-30%, depending on beer pH, and other things.
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Post by: beersk on January 07, 2016, 11:21:00 PM
Per the original recipe, I'd drop the caramunich, but otherwise, it looks like it would turn out a good schwarzbier. I'd almost make it a little darker with a little more of that patagonia malt. Maybe closer to a pound? Shoot for 25 SRM.
Post by: 2brew559 on January 08, 2016, 03:15:52 AM
That's funny, my schwarzbier is called "Liquid Schwarz!" named after Spaceballs.Beersk
Per the original recipe, I'd drop the caramunich, but otherwise, it looks like it would turn out a good schwarzbier. I'd almost make it a little darker with a little more of that patagonia malt. Maybe closer to a pound? Shoot for 25 SRM.
So no caramunich (crystal) ..??
Trust your advice especially since you n I thought same thing..lol space balls..lol
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Post by: beersk on January 08, 2016, 05:21:22 PM
Yeah, the caramunich isn't warranted in schwarzbier. If I ever open a brewery I'm definitely going to have a beer called Liquid Schwarz! It'll be perfect, haha.That's funny, my schwarzbier is called "Liquid Schwarz!" named after Spaceballs.Beersk
Per the original recipe, I'd drop the caramunich, but otherwise, it looks like it would turn out a good schwarzbier. I'd almost make it a little darker with a little more of that patagonia malt. Maybe closer to a pound? Shoot for 25 SRM.
So no caramunich (crystal) ..??
Trust your advice especially since you n I thought same thing..lol space balls..lol
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Post by: 2brew559 on January 08, 2016, 05:38:47 PM
Well gonna give the "no caramunich" a shotYeah, the caramunich isn't warranted in schwarzbier. If I ever open a brewery I'm definitely going to have a beer called Liquid Schwarz! It'll be perfect, haha.That's funny, my schwarzbier is called "Liquid Schwarz!" named after Spaceballs.Beersk
Per the original recipe, I'd drop the caramunich, but otherwise, it looks like it would turn out a good schwarzbier. I'd almost make it a little darker with a little more of that patagonia malt. Maybe closer to a pound? Shoot for 25 SRM.
So no caramunich (crystal) ..??
Trust your advice especially since you n I thought same thing..lol space balls..lol
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
And up the Patagonia...see how that turns out
Maybe do a split batch see how they perform/ taste...
So my Formulation not bad for a 1st attempt!
Oh and yea when you open your brewery save me a VIP spot..lol ;)
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Post by: beersk on January 08, 2016, 06:11:28 PM
I guess Kai does put a little dark crystal in his schwarzbier...so perhaps it would be nice in there, but not too much.
Post by: erockrph on January 08, 2016, 06:59:59 PM
I haven't brewed a traditional version of the style, but when I saw the original recipe and saw a fair amount of Dark Munich with CaraMunich I was thinking that this may end up closer to a Bock than a Schwarz.Yeah, the caramunich isn't warranted in schwarzbier. If I ever open a brewery I'm definitely going to have a beer called Liquid Schwarz! It'll be perfect, haha.That's funny, my schwarzbier is called "Liquid Schwarz!" named after Spaceballs.Beersk
Per the original recipe, I'd drop the caramunich, but otherwise, it looks like it would turn out a good schwarzbier. I'd almost make it a little darker with a little more of that patagonia malt. Maybe closer to a pound? Shoot for 25 SRM.
So no caramunich (crystal) ..??
Trust your advice especially since you n I thought same thing..lol space balls..lol
Post by: 2brew559 on January 08, 2016, 07:10:00 PM
Everyone,I haven't brewed a traditional version of the style, but when I saw the original recipe and saw a fair amount of Dark Munich with CaraMunich I was thinking that this may end up closer to a Bock than a Schwarz.Yeah, the caramunich isn't warranted in schwarzbier. If I ever open a brewery I'm definitely going to have a beer called Liquid Schwarz! It'll be perfect, haha.That's funny, my schwarzbier is called "Liquid Schwarz!" named after Spaceballs.Beersk
Per the original recipe, I'd drop the caramunich, but otherwise, it looks like it would turn out a good schwarzbier. I'd almost make it a little darker with a little more of that patagonia malt. Maybe closer to a pound? Shoot for 25 SRM.
So no caramunich (crystal) ..??
Trust your advice especially since you n I thought same thing..lol space balls..lol
So maybe drop the caramunich and sub in caravienne crystal .25lbs or .50lbs
And up the Patagonia to make up for the lovibond loss?? As beersk suggetsed??
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