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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: brulosopher on March 31, 2016, 12:01:29 PM

Title: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: brulosopher on March 31, 2016, 12:01:29 PM
A controversy has arisen over an aspect of beer that some seem to take quite seriously: clarity. With the growing popularity of so called New England/Northeastern IPA from the likes of The Alchemist, Tree House Brewing, and Hill Farmstead Brewery, people in clear-beer loving regions have begun to wonder what's going on. This is the focus of today's Brü's Views, which includes the perspectives of guest contributor John Wible from 2nd Story Brewing Co. in Philadelphia, PA. Check it out!

http://brulosophy.com/2016/03/31/brus-views-w-john-wible-of-2nd-story-brewing-co-on-beer-clarity/
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: reverseapachemaster on March 31, 2016, 03:28:25 PM
I bottled my first beer vaguely in this style last night so this is a timely piece for me. I don't think I drifted into the end of this style that is just turbid for turbid's sake with an unpleasant volume of yeast floating around (e.g. Hoof Hearted). It's definitely a different sensory experience from the west coast style. Not necessary better or worse but very different.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: denny on March 31, 2016, 03:54:12 PM
AFAIAC, there is no reason a beer has to look like muddy water with gravy added to it.  There are ways, as we all know, to clarify beer without filtering or fining.  And for me, it doesn't have to be crystal clear...just not a glass of mud.  He tried to make a point about how the haze contributes to mouthfeel, but as we all know you can get a great mouthfeel without having the beer look like that.  If some people want to make beer that looks like that, and some people want to drink it, fine by me....but I won't be one of them.  I'm tempted to call it lazy brewing (and not in a good way) but I think it's more of a fad, like Black IPA.  And BTW, I've had Heady Topper...I was kinda "meh" about it.  To me, the heavy proteins that caused the haze also muted the hop expression.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: yso191 on March 31, 2016, 04:02:37 PM
You know Denny, I have had the same experience with every cult-obsession-must-have beer I have tried.  I come away thinking "This?!"  My conclusion is that these beers were just first in a market with a new decent style or version.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 31, 2016, 04:06:12 PM
AFAIAC, there is no reason a beer has to look like muddy water with gravy added to it.  There are ways, as we all know, to clarify beer without filtering or fining.  And for me, it doesn't have to be crystal clear...just not a glass of mud.  He tried to make a point about how the haze contributes to mouthfeel, but as we all know you can get a great mouthfeel without having the beer look like that.  If some people want to make beer that looks like that, and some people want to drink it, fine by me....but I won't be one of them.  I'm tempted to call it lazy brewing (and not in a good way) but I think it's more of a fad, like Black IPA.  And BTW, I've had Heady Topper...I was kinda "meh" about it.  To me, the heavy proteins that caused the haze also muted the hop expression.


I agree with all of this, Denny. Except I'll admit to liking a well made black IPA now and then (but admit the name is a pretty silly misnomer).
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: Iliff Ave Brewhouse on March 31, 2016, 04:24:27 PM
I have been curious about this new 'style' and cannot find any examples around here. A newer brewery here which I visited recently seems to have adopted it. Every hoppy beer was murky and had oats and wheat listed in the ingredients. I was kind of confused about what I was drinking and then the light went on. I was not thrilled by their offerings but have yet to try any of the hyped examples.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: Biran on March 31, 2016, 05:11:55 PM
As long as it tastes good I don't really mind what it looks like.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: denny on March 31, 2016, 05:33:37 PM
As long as it tastes good I don't really mind what it looks like.

I've found that the extreme haziness has negative effects on flavor.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: RPIScotty on March 31, 2016, 05:40:18 PM
Heady Topper is the classic example of hype not being delivered upon during tasting.

Let's talk about the REAL reason they want you to drink from the can: the poured beer is hideous.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: charles1968 on March 31, 2016, 05:44:50 PM
I don't mind chalky haze in certain styles, including wheat beer and "craft beer". I object to it in lagers. But most of all I don't want any trace of haze in beers I make for friends and family who aren't beer geeks. The argument that it's meant to be hazy doesn't wash with most people. They see a murky home brew and think HOME BREW.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: pete b on March 31, 2016, 05:49:52 PM
I have been meaning to get out to Tree House. I'll simply try it myself. I do think Heady Topper is a great beer so I suspect I'll like it. The reason I like Heady is the crazy amount of hops without harsh bitterness, no clue if the haze has anything to do with it.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: rob_f on March 31, 2016, 06:02:00 PM
I don't mind a little hop haze in an IPA. I don't know what "brite" means.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 31, 2016, 06:07:22 PM
I don't mind a little hop haze in an IPA. I don't know what "brite" means.


I'm fine with hop haze, too. But it's a big jump from hop haze to having a beer that looks like a smoothie, like some of these. To each his own I guess.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: neddles on March 31, 2016, 06:21:19 PM
AFAIAC, there is no reason a beer has to look like muddy water with gravy added to it.  There are ways, as we all know, to clarify beer without filtering or fining.  And for me, it doesn't have to be crystal clear...just not a glass of mud.  He tried to make a point about how the haze contributes to mouthfeel, but as we all know you can get a great mouthfeel without having the beer look like that.  If some people want to make beer that looks like that, and some people want to drink it, fine by me....but I won't be one of them.  I'm tempted to call it lazy brewing (and not in a good way) but I think it's more of a fad, like Black IPA.  And BTW, I've had Heady Topper...I was kinda "meh" about it.  To me, the heavy proteins that caused the haze also muted the hop expression.

This again... Well I will add a few things here. The haze is responsible for both the mouthfeel and the hop presentation. It is not the same mouthfeel you get from using oats, rye, etc., just having a high final gravity or using 1450. It is different. So is the hop presentation which, IMO, has nothing to do with fruity esters from the use of English strains. IME beers made in this style also tend to hold their dry hop character longer too. To my palate this is a style of it's own, different enough from IPA as we typically know it and far more different than just coloring it black. Better or worse is in the eye of the beer holder but it is different in a way that can't (currently) be done without the haze (but I am open to trying it if someone demonstrates it can be) and obviously many people seem to like it. I will agree that it seems sloppy practice to me if you can see particulate floating (you can make out individual particles in the beer). I haven't yet seen that though.

I heard an interview recently with the guy from Hoof Hearted and I recall him saying that certain yeast strains will remain in suspension. He said that combined with flaked adjunct gets him the haze and the mouthfeel. I don't know about his beers so I can't say but IME neither yeast in suspension nor flaked adjunct are necessary to create a good example of this style.

Denny, you are the guy known for trying things out for yourself. Keep an open mind here… you had one can of one example of the style and you did not even know how old the can was. See if you can get someone to send you some fresh Trillium or Treehouse or better yet make one for yourself!

Crazy how this is called a "controversy". Cloudy beer? really?
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: theDarkSide on March 31, 2016, 06:43:36 PM
You know once I got a bottle of Pliny from a friend and drank this perfectly clear beer and was like "yeah, it's good but I've had better".  I'll take a  Bissell Brothers Swish over a Pliny any day.

Heady was the one that started it all (at least for me) and but now I feel there are better beers than HT.  Sip of Sunshine, most of Trilluim's stuff, Bissell Brothers, etc.

As far as controversy, I couldn't care less (except to get Petros and Denny going on Facebook :) )...don't drink it.  The Hundreds of people who line up every week at these breweries for the cans and I will drink your share. ;)

P.S.  speaking of controversy...when is Tech Talk coming back :)
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: PrettyBeard on March 31, 2016, 07:05:08 PM
Meh.  I've always like weissbiers so it's never really seemed all that controversial to me.  Haven't found one to try yet though, and I don't like IPAs enough to try and brew one yet.  I suppose when the hops come in this fall I might give it a try.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: denny on March 31, 2016, 07:54:35 PM
From what I've sen, these beers are far beyond the cloudiness you get in a weissbier.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: PrettyBeard on March 31, 2016, 08:16:33 PM
From what I've sen, these beers are far beyond the cloudiness you get in a weissbier.

American IPAs have gone way beyond the IBUs of the british ones haven't they?
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: denny on March 31, 2016, 08:17:24 PM
From what I've sen, these beers are far beyond the cloudiness you get in a weissbier.

American IPAs have gone way beyond the IBUs of the british ones haven't they?

I fail to see the connection.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: hopfenundmalz on March 31, 2016, 08:30:09 PM
From what I've sen, these beers are far beyond the cloudiness you get in a weissbier.

American IPAs have gone way beyond the IBUs of the british ones haven't they?
The British ones were said to be very dry and of brilliant clarity after 6 months to a year in the brewery yard and 6 months at sea. But we all know we shouldn't age IPAs. What were they thinking?

Those were also said to be around 60-70 IBUs, and would have had a dry bitter finish from the sulfate levels and high attenuation. I have brewed some form Ron Pattinson's blog, they are really good beers. Those are probably more bitter than the NE IPAs.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: braufessor on April 01, 2016, 01:23:44 AM
From what I've sen, these beers are far beyond the cloudiness you get in a weissbier.

American IPAs have gone way beyond the IBUs of the british ones haven't they?

I fail to see the connection.

I suppose the connection would be that if it is ok for "west coast" IPA's and APA's to be out of style on IBU's, it is ok for "east coast" IPA's and APA's to be out of style on clarity.

That said - MURKY beers are not good in my experience.  I have had LOTS of really good "hazy" IPA's.  I have had very few "murky" IPA's that I would call good.  I am not a fan or advocate of the "yeast milkshake."

Personally, the thing I tend to like about the "NE IPA" is the emphasis on less bitterness and more flameout/dry hop.  Chloride over sulfate.  Personally, I like the smoother hop flavor as opposed to the piney bitterness and assertive bite of many IPA's.

One thing I do absolutely agree on as a downfall of the "hazy" beers..... I think it does hurt the shelf life and the flavor can be less stable.  But, I have had some unbelievable beers of this style fresh, or at the source.  Hopefully with NHC out east, maybe some west coasters will get a chance to sample some of the beers fresher and in better condition than they might have been able to in the past.  There really are some good beers being made in this "style."

In the end, there are a lot of great beers out there. Pliny is great.  Firestone Walker beers, Ballast Point, Two Hearted, Bear Republic..... etc..... along with Lawsons, Alchemist, Hill Farmstead, Bissel Brothers, Other Half, Tree House....etc.  I have had both spectacular and terrible clear beers.  Spectacular and terrible "hazy" beers. 

I am always open to trying anything.  Whether or not I buy a second I leave to my experience with the first.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: Biran on April 01, 2016, 01:27:02 AM
As long as it tastes good I don't really mind what it looks like.

I've found that the extreme haziness has negative effects on flavor.

Okay, so my point remains unchanged.  If it's hazy and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's hazy and doesn't taste bad I like it.  If it's clear and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's clear and tastes good I do like it.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: jeffy on April 01, 2016, 01:30:21 AM
As long as it tastes good I don't really mind what it looks like.

I've found that the extreme haziness has negative effects on flavor.

Okay, so my point remains unchanged.  If it's hazy and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's hazy and doesn't taste bad I like it.  If it's clear and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's clear and tastes good I do like it.
If it looks like the tap sucked up the grunge at the bottom of the keg I am sending it back.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: Biran on April 01, 2016, 03:28:30 AM
As long as it tastes good I don't really mind what it looks like.

I've found that the extreme haziness has negative effects on flavor.

Okay, so my point remains unchanged.  If it's hazy and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's hazy and doesn't taste
bad I like it.  If it's clear and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's clear and tastes good I do like it.
If it looks like the tap sucked up the grunge at the bottom of the keg I am sending it back.

I don't understand the pushback I'm getting from my comment.  I once had a pint from a popular and successful brewery in San Diego that looked like sludge. I took a sip and sent it back.  The bartender didn't charge me for it.  If it had tasted fine I would not have said a word about it.  My point is that if the flavor and aroma is good, I don't mind what the beer looks like.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: klickitat jim on April 01, 2016, 03:46:13 AM
Just my personal view regarding commercial or homebrewed APA/IPA/IIPA... it should be clear. If its "hazy from dry hopping" then I ought to be smelling hops. So if you are claiming the haze comes from the hops, then show me the hops! If your IPA is hazy and has no hop aroma, there's a problem.

If you/they/we are creating a new style, I have no problem whatsoever with that. If the new style is called NEIPA cool. If that style is moderately hazy to opaque cloudy, thats fine too. But why? Is it mit heffe? Is it wheat? Is it so incredibly hopped that its milky? Any of these are fine, but it needs to be self evident. If its yeast, it should be tastey yeast. If its wheat, are we tasting wheat? If its hops, are we having our hair blown back by hop aroma?
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: narvin on April 01, 2016, 04:11:38 AM
There's hazy and then there's yeasty.  The latter is just not something that I think goes all that well with an IPA.  The first issue is stability... when the yeast drops out, you lose the flavor. 

Even the "cloudy" beers of Belgium are centrifuged and reyeasted with just enough to encourage refermentation in the bottle. I guess if you're making IPAs, and ones that are so popular that they fly off the shelf, you don't have to worry about stability.  But when the fad shifts again (and it will faster than ever in this day and age), it's no longer going to be a very practical style.

But at least it's not nasty like black ipa ;-)
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: denny on April 01, 2016, 03:28:59 PM
As long as it tastes good I don't really mind what it looks like.

I've found that the extreme haziness has negative effects on flavor.

Okay, so my point remains unchanged.  If it's hazy and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's hazy and doesn't taste bad I like it.  If it's clear and tastes bad I don't like it.  If it's clear and tastes good I do like it.

I don't mind hazy.  Muddy is a different matter.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: Hand of Dom on April 01, 2016, 04:27:58 PM
I used to expect commercial beers to be clear, but as my favourite beer is the pretty cloudy Rochefort 8, I'm not that bothered these days.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: denny on April 01, 2016, 04:41:18 PM
I used to expect commercial beers to be clear, but as my favourite beer is the pretty cloudy Rochefort 8, I'm not that bothered these days.

Rochefort 8 is cloudy?  And again, I don't have a lot of problems with cloudy.  It's sludgy that I object to.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: HoosierBrew on April 01, 2016, 04:45:18 PM
I don't see it as cloudy at all. If you pour in all the yeast sediment in the bottom it might be - I decant that stuff. Agreed it's not brilliantly clear.
Title: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: RPIScotty on April 01, 2016, 04:54:23 PM
Agreed it's not brilliantly clear.

Bring dang close for a beer that color. The same can be said for the Chimay beers and the Westmalle Dubbel as well.

I used to expect commercial beers to be clear, but as my favourite beer is the pretty cloudy Rochefort 8, I'm not that bothered these days.

They are all extremely clear when the yeast is left in the bottle. If your drinking a cloudy Rochefort your doing something wrong!
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: narcout on April 01, 2016, 05:13:13 PM
If you read the Bru's Views, John Wible states that in his case the haze is protein haze from adjuncts such as flaked oats and wheat, not yeast.

I thought Heady Topper was pretty tasty.  I didn't realize it was cloudy, but I was drinking it out of a can at a Phish show.  I haven't had the chance to try beers from any of these other breweries yet.

Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: narcout on April 01, 2016, 09:14:44 PM
Agreed it's not brilliantly clear.

The Rocheforts and Chimays I am getting are all somewhat murky.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: Hand of Dom on April 01, 2016, 10:33:26 PM
I don't see it as cloudy at all. If you pour in all the yeast sediment in the bottom it might be - I decant that stuff. Agreed it's not brilliantly clear.
  Cloudy may be the wrong word, but I've always found it pretty murky in the glass.  I've just dug a bottle out, and it looks clear in the bottle though.
Title: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: RPIScotty on April 01, 2016, 10:52:03 PM
I don't see it as cloudy at all. If you pour in all the yeast sediment in the bottom it might be - I decant that stuff. Agreed it's not brilliantly clear.
  Cloudy may be the wrong word, but I've always found it pretty murky in the glass.  I've just dug a bottle out, and it looks clear in the bottle though.

Agreed it's not brilliantly clear.

The Rocheforts and Chimays I am getting are all somewhat murky.

Really? Murky means dirty looking. I can't even see cloudy as a proper adjective for either of those breweries beers. I had a Grande Premiere that was crystal clear in the glass.

To clarify here, I'm talking clear in the sense of zero particles, etc, not color. These beers are typically centrifuged. The only particles should be the bottling yeast. I agree that the yeast particles in the Rochefort can be pesky but what you guys are describing seems at odds with every Chimay, Rochefort, Westmalle, Achel, etc that I've ever had.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: narcout on April 01, 2016, 11:01:14 PM
That's a Westmalle Dubbel on the right.  It isn't the greatest picture, but you can see that it's a bit hazy.

(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff164/narcout/dubbel.jpg) (http://s240.photobucket.com/user/narcout/media/dubbel.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: denny on April 01, 2016, 11:01:43 PM
what you guys are describing seems at odds with every Chimay, Rochefort, Westmalle, Achel, etc that I've ever had.

THIS^^^^
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: Phil_M on April 01, 2016, 11:04:25 PM
what you guys are describing seems at odds with every Chimay, Rochefort, Westmalle, Achel, etc that I've ever had.

THIS^^^^

+2

With these beers I've actually started pouring the beer into a chilled wine decanter in order to prevent the dregs from reaching the glasses. If you start pouring and tip the bottle back to vertical to stop a pour, in my experience you will end up with dregs in the glass.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: chinaski on April 02, 2016, 12:28:17 AM
I don't think you can separate the beer from its hype- whether it be good or bad.  It all colors our impressions of the drinking experience in one way or another.  Hill Farmstead probably does taste better to those that have driven many hours to get it than to those who don't have to.  And I think that's OK.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: Hand of Dom on April 02, 2016, 10:14:15 PM
I don't see it as cloudy at all. If you pour in all the yeast sediment in the bottom it might be - I decant that stuff. Agreed it's not brilliantly clear.
  Cloudy may be the wrong word, but I've always found it pretty murky in the glass.  I've just dug a bottle out, and it looks clear in the bottle though.

Agreed it's not brilliantly clear.

The Rocheforts and Chimays I am getting are all somewhat murky.

Really? Murky means dirty looking. I can't even see cloudy as a proper adjective for either of those breweries beers. I had a Grande Premiere that was crystal clear in the glass.

To clarify here, I'm talking clear in the sense of zero particles, etc, not color. These beers are typically centrifuged. The only particles should be the bottling yeast. I agree that the yeast particles in the Rochefort can be pesky but what you guys are describing seems at odds with every Chimay, Rochefort, Westmalle, Achel, etc that I've ever had.
I agree that they don't have visible suspended particles, but you can't really see through a glass of it, which was what I meant.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: pmonti80 on April 04, 2016, 11:52:41 AM
Small Off Topic:
Do you realize that in Belgium people usually drink and like the dregs of trappist beers? It's not like your tipical small local micro that has tons of horrible tasting dregs at the end of the bottle.

Try the following idea next time you drink Chimay or Rochefort: pour 3/4 of the beer and drink it normally. When finished pick the bottle swirl it a little, pour the rest in your glass and drink it. You may find that contrary to normal beers you like these dregs (I do).
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: denny on April 04, 2016, 03:36:28 PM
Small Off Topic:
Do you realize that in Belgium people usually drink and like the dregs of trappist beers? It's not like your tipical small local micro that has tons of horrible tasting dregs at the end of the bottle.

Try the following idea next time you drink Chimay or Rochefort: pour 3/4 of the beer and drink it normally. When finished pick the bottle swirl it a little, pour the rest in your glass and drink it. You may find that contrary to normal beers you like these dregs (I do).

Um, no.  I've never heard that people in Belgium regularly drink the dregs and frankly I don't care what they do.  It's nasty and I'm not gonna drink it.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: RPIScotty on April 04, 2016, 03:40:16 PM
Small Off Topic:
Do you realize that in Belgium people usually drink and like the dregs of trappist beers? It's not like your tipical small local micro that has tons of horrible tasting dregs at the end of the bottle.

Try the following idea next time you drink Chimay or Rochefort: pour 3/4 of the beer and drink it normally. When finished pick the bottle swirl it a little, pour the rest in your glass and drink it. You may find that contrary to normal beers you like these dregs (I do).

Um, no.  I've never heard that people in Belgium regularly drink the dregs and frankly I don't care what they do.  It's nasty and I'm not gonna drink it.

^^^^^^^^
THIS.

I regularly leave the last full sip of a Rochefort in the glass for this reason. I don't want to drink bottle dregs if I can avoid it.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: trentm on April 04, 2016, 04:31:20 PM
My gut is regularly bloated about 4x it's normal size due to drinking the dregs though "they" say that "they" are good for you.  The infamous "they" rears "their" ugly head again.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: Hand of Dom on April 04, 2016, 06:06:39 PM
http://www.brasserielefebvre.be/en/page/28/art-of-serving
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: RPIScotty on April 04, 2016, 06:22:45 PM
http://www.brasserielefebvre.be/en/page/28/art-of-serving

Doesn't change the taste!

I find the dregs very easy to avoid in all the Trappist and Abbey beers, Ommegang, Unibroue, etc.

Anecdotally, I pour my Chimay's pretty vigorously, dregs and all. Unlike Rochefort, the Chimay and Westmalle beers bottling yeast doesn't floc as much as the Rochefort and I barely notice I pour it in.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: narvin on April 04, 2016, 09:28:17 PM
Small Off Topic:
Do you realize that in Belgium people usually drink and like the dregs of trappist beers? It's not like your tipical small local micro that has tons of horrible tasting dregs at the end of the bottle.

Try the following idea next time you drink Chimay or Rochefort: pour 3/4 of the beer and drink it normally. When finished pick the bottle swirl it a little, pour the rest in your glass and drink it. You may find that contrary to normal beers you like these dregs (I do).

I personally did not see that in Belgium.  Sometimes they'll give you a shot of the yeast on the side if you want it.  Someone from Belgium can possibly correct me, but not one of the breweries I visited treated it as a delicacy.  Beer on tap (there's a lot of it, and I'm not talking Jupiler) was sparkling clear much of the time.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: narvin on April 04, 2016, 09:45:55 PM
Van Honsebrouke:

(http://i.imgur.com/EldLFei.jpg)

Silly Saison:

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-V5zrwQseA7Q/VC6ZyU8j6nI/AAAAAAAANoQ/Yqp787XliBQ1pWPUWRc1OYxkpq1j4xy1A/w2048-h1362-no/DSC_1084.JPG)

Witbier (Hazy, not yeasty), with beef terrine:

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aSl7Te5YU0E/VC6bDisOakI/AAAAAAAANqY/7y4gYkC6DBkbIhjS4JMgsVc323cl3YzRw/w910-h1368-no/DSC_1104.JPG)

Kriek and Lambic:

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-xkS9zlmR_bM/VC6zlDTjKRI/AAAAAAAAOVs/pap2eWFOwjoHNpHlSVBmvJaVllFx-TdGw/w910-h1368-no/DSC_1700.JPG)

De Dolle, aged beers in bottle:

(http://i.imgur.com/qVupuWl.jpg)
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: pmonti80 on April 05, 2016, 06:16:48 AM
Small Off Topic:
Do you realize that in Belgium people usually drink and like the dregs of trappist beers? It's not like your tipical small local micro that has tons of horrible tasting dregs at the end of the bottle.

Try the following idea next time you drink Chimay or Rochefort: pour 3/4 of the beer and drink it normally. When finished pick the bottle swirl it a little, pour the rest in your glass and drink it. You may find that contrary to normal beers you like these dregs (I do).

Um, no.  I've never heard that people in Belgium regularly drink the dregs and frankly I don't care what they do.  It's nasty and I'm not gonna drink it.

I hate the taste of the immense quantity of dregs I have in my homebrews. BUT my father is belgian and he was tought that way to drink trappist beers. I find that there is way less dregs in Chimay that in my beers and they taste good.
Title: Re: Brü's Views with Jon Wible | On The Hazy Beer Controversy
Post by: Hand of Dom on April 18, 2016, 10:27:49 AM
I dug a bottle of Rochefort 8 out of the stash this weekend, and it is definitely murky.  This is not as a result of the yeast getting kicked up when serving, as this remained caked to the bottom of the bottle.  This is exactly how I recall every other time I've had this beer (both served by myself, and in various pubs in Bruges).