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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: erockrph on April 02, 2016, 02:27:37 PM

Title: S-189
Post by: erockrph on April 02, 2016, 02:27:37 PM
I just tapped my first lager using S-189, and I'm not sure what I think of it yet. The fermentation character reminds me more of WY2007 than the German lager strains I've used. I don't know if it's low sulfur or something else, but it's lacking the fermentation character that I seem to get from something like 34/70. That on its own isn't necessarily a bad thing, just different.

What I'm not so sure on is this flavor I'm getting the really reminds me of sake for some reason. It's not quite hot, or sweet, or fruity, but some combination of the three. I don't think it's estery, but maybe it's a low fusel note. It's a low note, but it was unexpected for me. I haven't decided whether I'm OK with it or not yet. I'll come back to it in a week or so and reassess.

This was my challenge extract beer, so I decided to go low-tech on fermentation. I let this run at ambient in my basement (mid 50's). Maybe that's too high for this strain? Any thoughts from someone who has used this yeast? Has anyone gotten this fermentation character before?

3 gallon Recipe FWIW:
3lb Pilsen DME
8oz Munich LME
4oz CaraFoam
20 IBU Hallertau mf @60 min

1.049 OG, 1.010 FG
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: tommymorris on April 02, 2016, 02:33:28 PM
I hate when there's a flavor you like or don't like and you can't quite describe it.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: Frankenbrew on April 03, 2016, 01:04:40 AM
I used it for a Maibock that is lagering now. It has just the slightest hint of green apple. I'm hoping it will age out seeing that it is very subtle, or a "low note" as you say. My fingers are crossed. I want to tap it for May.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: ynotbrusum on April 03, 2016, 02:37:33 AM
First time user today - 11 gallon batch with 2 packets pitched into well spun wort with a spoon stirring it in - Wow I have rarely had a lager yeast go so quickly!  Unlike others earlier reviewing this as a slow lag time, this one jumped out of the gate within about 6 hours to push my airlock to full fermentation at 52F.  No problems here - cannot wait to taste the beer.  Others like the yeast, so I am guessing this beer made for a June party will be quite exceptional. 
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: Frankenbrew on April 03, 2016, 12:18:16 PM
I used it for a Maibock that is lagering now. It has just the slightest hint of green apple. I'm hoping it will age out seeing that it is very subtle, or a "low note" as you say. My fingers are crossed. I want to tap it for May.

Okay, I tasted this again today, one week into lagering. The green apple is gone--thankfully--but there is a little sweet flavor that I would describe as candy or sugar. Remember those little straw candies they used to sell? They were paper straws filled with sugar. That's sort of what I'm getting from it.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: denny on April 03, 2016, 04:09:20 PM
I used it for a Maibock that is lagering now. It has just the slightest hint of green apple. I'm hoping it will age out seeing that it is very subtle, or a "low note" as you say. My fingers are crossed. I want to tap it for May.

Okay, I tasted this again today, one week into lagering. The green apple is gone--thankfully--but there is a little sweet flavor that I would describe as candy or sugar. Remember those little straw candies they used to sell? They were paper straws filled with sugar. That's sort of what I'm getting from it.

I think that would be more likely to come from recipe or process.  I've used S-198 a fair bit and never found that.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: Steve Ruch on April 03, 2016, 04:18:17 PM
I used it for a Maibock that is lagering now. It has just the slightest hint of green apple. I'm hoping it will age out seeing that it is very subtle, or a "low note" as you say. My fingers are crossed. I want to tap it for May.

I brewed a maibock with S-189 last year. I'm bummed as I only have three bottles left.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: Frankenbrew on April 03, 2016, 09:11:47 PM
I used it for a Maibock that is lagering now. It has just the slightest hint of green apple. I'm hoping it will age out seeing that it is very subtle, or a "low note" as you say. My fingers are crossed. I want to tap it for May.

Okay, I tasted this again today, one week into lagering. The green apple is gone--thankfully--but there is a little sweet flavor that I would describe as candy or sugar. Remember those little straw candies they used to sell? They were paper straws filled with sugar. That's sort of what I'm getting from it.

I think that would be more likely to come from recipe or process.  I've used S-198 a fair bit and never found that.

Recipe no. Process maybe. The beer was brewed with 100% malt: Pilsner, Munich, and acidiculated, all Weyermann.

My fermentation and lagering processes are weather dependent. Though, there were no wild temperature swings. Fermentation at 55 F a D-rest at 65 back down to 45 for lagering. I tend to think that it just needs time. I shouldn't be so quick to blame the yeast. I'll cast final judgment in May when tap it.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: ajk on April 04, 2016, 02:40:00 AM
Okay, I tasted this again today, one week into lagering. The green apple is gone--thankfully--but there is a little sweet flavor that I would describe as candy or sugar. Remember those little straw candies they used to sell? They were paper straws filled with sugar. That's sort of what I'm getting from it.

Pixy Stix?
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: 69franx on April 04, 2016, 03:30:44 AM
Okay, I tasted this again today, one week into lagering. The green apple is gone--thankfully--but there is a little sweet flavor that I would describe as candy or sugar. Remember those little straw candies they used to sell? They were paper straws filled with sugar. That's sort of what I'm getting from it.

Pixy Stix?
That was the name, "pure" poundable sugar
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: erockrph on April 04, 2016, 03:04:13 PM
I used it for a Maibock that is lagering now. It has just the slightest hint of green apple. I'm hoping it will age out seeing that it is very subtle, or a "low note" as you say. My fingers are crossed. I want to tap it for May.

Okay, I tasted this again today, one week into lagering. The green apple is gone--thankfully--but there is a little sweet flavor that I would describe as candy or sugar. Remember those little straw candies they used to sell? They were paper straws filled with sugar. That's sort of what I'm getting from it.

I think that would be more likely to come from recipe or process.  I've used S-198 a fair bit and never found that.

Recipe no. Process maybe. The beer was brewed with 100% malt: Pilsner, Munich, and acidiculated, all Weyermann.

My fermentation and lagering processes are weather dependent. Though, there were no wild temperature swings. Fermentation at 55 F a D-rest at 65 back down to 45 for lagering. I tend to think that it just needs time. I shouldn't be so quick to blame the yeast. I'll cast final judgment in May when tap it.
I'm wondering if this yeast is a bit more temperature-sensitive than other lager yeasts I've used. I fermented mine at ~55F as well (pitched around 52F), and wonder if this caused the flavor I'm getting. I wonder if a more traditional lager fermentation of pitching in the mid 40's and fermenting at 50F would lead to less flavor impact.

And frankly, I don't know if I'd even bother with that experiment, since 34/70 is about as foolproof of a dry yeast as you can get and does just about everything I want in a lager yeast.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: majorvices on April 04, 2016, 03:33:25 PM
I have used it a lot, and it is a great, clean, fast fermenting lager yeast. I wouldn't ferment it at 55 though.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: PORTERHAUS on April 04, 2016, 06:50:02 PM
I have used it a lot, and it is a great, clean, fast fermenting lager yeast. I wouldn't ferment it at 55 though.

That being said, what is your recommended temp range for S-189?
I have my eye on this yeast for my next lager, although I really like the Bohemian strain. I have never used 34/70. I have used Wyeast version and Mangrove Jack's Bohemian lager yeast though. How does the S-189 compare, in short? I'm sure it's been talked about before.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: majorvices on April 04, 2016, 08:50:10 PM
I made an imperial pilsner last year with it that was fantastic. It really showcased the hops. It's a fast fermenter, works well at cold temps. I started it off at 48 and let it rock along at 50 before raising for drest
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: Frankenbrew on April 04, 2016, 10:23:22 PM
I have used it a lot, and it is a great, clean, fast fermenting lager yeast. I wouldn't ferment it at 55 though.

That being said, what is your recommended temp range for S-189?


According to Fermentis, the recommended temperature is 53 - 59 F.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: majorvices on April 04, 2016, 10:44:07 PM
I have used it a lot, and it is a great, clean, fast fermenting lager yeast. I wouldn't ferment it at 55 though.

That being said, what is your recommended temp range for S-189?


According to Fermentis, the recommended temperature is 53 - 59 F.

I listen to the "recommended ranges" like, never. Find your own way. Grasshopper. ;)
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: HoosierBrew on April 04, 2016, 10:58:57 PM
I listen to the "recommended ranges" like, never. Find your own way. Grasshopper. ;)


Man, couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: Frankenbrew on April 04, 2016, 11:22:08 PM
I have used it a lot, and it is a great, clean, fast fermenting lager yeast. I wouldn't ferment it at 55 though.

That being said, what is your recommended temp range for S-189?




According to Fermentis, the recommended temperature is 53 - 59 F.

I listen to the "recommended ranges" like, never. Find your own way. Grasshopper. ;)

I suppose that's what I'm doing. Since it's the first time using it, and it isn't a common strain, it is a starting point. One that I'll change in my quest to "find my own way, Master."  ;)
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: beersk on April 05, 2016, 12:40:12 AM
I used it for a Maibock that is lagering now. It has just the slightest hint of green apple. I'm hoping it will age out seeing that it is very subtle, or a "low note" as you say. My fingers are crossed. I want to tap it for May.

I brewed a maibock with S-189 last year. I'm bummed as I only have three bottles left.
Prolly cuz o' your signature, d00d. Sorry.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: denny on April 05, 2016, 03:14:37 PM
I have used it a lot, and it is a great, clean, fast fermenting lager yeast. I wouldn't ferment it at 55 though.

That being said, what is your recommended temp range for S-189?


According to Fermentis, the recommended temperature is 53 - 59 F.

I'd recommend 53-55 as the top end, based on my experience.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: Steve Ruch on April 05, 2016, 09:44:24 PM
I'd recommend 53-55 as the top end, based on my experience.

My cooler is set at 48 which usually gives me a fermentation temp of 52-53 with lager yeast.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: Frankenbrew on April 06, 2016, 05:55:02 PM
I'd recommend 53-55 as the top end, based on my experience.

My cooler is set at 48 which usually gives me a fermentation temp of 52-53 with lager yeast.

Okay, second brew with this yeast is a Munich Dunkel, same process, same temps. This one is absolutely gorgeous, clean, malty and bright.Certainly a darker beer is going to be more forgiving than the Maibock, but I can't see anything wrong with it. Now, I guess I have to give the Maibock some more time to mature and then make my final judgement, but if I were just going on the dunkel, I would recommend it highly and use it again.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: ynotbrusum on April 08, 2016, 02:52:38 AM
Does this one typically require a D-rest?
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: majorvices on April 08, 2016, 12:16:17 PM
Does this one typically require a D-rest?

Honestly, I try to d-rest for every lager because not only does it assure there is no diacetyl but it also speeds up the maturation process. So I wouldn't be able to give an answer on that. I feel it's best to do one anyway.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: PORTERHAUS on April 08, 2016, 02:04:03 PM
Does this one typically require a D-rest?

Honestly, I try to d-rest for every lager because not only does it assure there is no diacetyl but it also speeds up the maturation process. So I wouldn't be able to give an answer on that. I feel it's best to do one anyway.

I agree, just part of the process for every batch. Lagers or Ales.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: denny on April 08, 2016, 03:38:00 PM
Does this one typically require a D-rest?

I've never needed one for it, but it depends more on your process than the yeast itself.
Title: Re: S-189
Post by: ynotbrusum on April 13, 2016, 02:01:53 AM
Got a kölsch going in the same chest now, so it is getting a d-rest with the Kölsch at 60-62F and both will be dropped back down and lagered at 32F for a bit.  Awaiting the sample with baited breath....