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General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: Hand of Dom on April 24, 2016, 12:25:40 PM

Title: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: Hand of Dom on April 24, 2016, 12:25:40 PM
My next brew will be a pale ale which is a beer I haven't made before (since moving up from kits).  I'm reasonably happy with my malt, but I'm not really sure what to do with the hops.  I've included my grist below, as well as a list of the hops I've got available to me.  Please could I have suggestions on hop combos (with timings if poss).  Batch size will be 19L (5 US Gal).

Grist:

MO 75%
Munich 22%
Carapils 2%
Carafa 3 1%

Hops available:

Magnum 70g
Pacific Gem 50g
Citra 100g
Nelson Sauvin 50g
Falconers Flight 70g
Apollo 50g
Mosaic 90g
Cascade 20g
Simcoe 30g

I've also got other things like Saaz and Goldings, but didn't want to use them in this beer.

I had initially thought to use the Pacific Gem for bittering, a combo of  Cascade & Mosaic at 15m, Cascade & Simcoe at flameout, and Mosaic & Simcoe dry hopped.  Never really dry hopped before, so I'm not sure how much to use (probably don't have enough Simcoe for flameout & dry hop seeing the quantities people seem to use on here).
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: Hand of Dom on April 24, 2016, 12:28:43 PM
Forgot to say, SG was going to be 1050, and I was planning on using WY1450.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: fmader on April 24, 2016, 01:20:31 PM
I guess it depends on how hoppy you want the beer. Some, like myself, like a pretty hoppy APA with lots of flavor and aroma, while other enjoy a more traditional route. If you want to go the hoppy APA route, my recommendation would be to get all of your IBUs from either your 60 minute addition or first wort addition. Pacific gem would work fine here. Your other option is magnum. Then add a flameout addition (chill to 175-180 and hold)  and let it whirlpool for at least 30 minutes (stir every so often). I would use around 3 oz of hops here. Any combination of what you have (Citra, mosaic, cascade, falconers, Nelson, Apollo, pac gem) would work great. Then dry hop around three ounces as well.

I also don't think there's any harm in having a 15 minute addition either. Just adjust your IBU count at 60 minutes to account for it.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: fmader on April 24, 2016, 01:28:25 PM
I just saw your OG.... 2-3 oz at flameout and 2-3 oz at dry hop
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: Hand of Dom on April 24, 2016, 02:38:51 PM
Cheers Frank.

I've cobbled the following up from your advice:

Pacific Gem 18g FWH for 60 min (38IBU)
Apollo & Mosaic 5g each @ 15m (9IBU)
Amarillo 20g @ FO for 20m
Cascade 25g @ FO for 20m
Nelson 10g @ FO for 20m
Mosaic 30g dry hop for 7 days once primary fermentation is complete.
Simcoe 30g dry hop
Nelson 10g dry hop

So just over 2oz at flameout and about 2.5oz dry hopped.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: fmader on April 24, 2016, 04:19:11 PM
Looks great to me!
Title: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: Hickory on April 24, 2016, 09:04:36 PM
Using Pacific Gem as your bittering seems like a big waste of a very tasty hop. I would use the Magnum for bittering instead and but the pacific gem in later in at FO or dry hop. Just my 2 cents! Either way I think you'll have a tasty brew.

Edit for stupid spellcheck.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: Hand of Dom on April 25, 2016, 08:49:07 AM
Using Pacific Gem as your bittering seems like a big waste of a very tasty hop. I would use the Magnum for bittering instead and but the pacific gem in later in at FO or dry hop. Just my 2 cents! Either way I think you'll have a tasty brew.

Edit for stupid spellcheck.

Thanks Hickory, everything I'd read about this was it was a bittering hop.  I'll use the magnum for bittering, and might add some Pacific Gem to the flameout or dry hop addition.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: Hickory on April 25, 2016, 01:52:51 PM
Using Pacific Gem as your bittering seems like a big waste of a very tasty hop. I would use the Magnum for bittering instead and but the pacific gem in later in at FO or dry hop. Just my 2 cents! Either way I think you'll have a tasty brew.

Edit for stupid spellcheck.

Thanks Hickory, everything I'd read about this was it was a bittering hop.  I'll use the magnum for bittering, and might add some Pacific Gem to the flameout or dry hop addition.

Ya I've seen that around too, not sure why besides it has pretty high AA's. But to be fair the only experience I've had with it was a single hopped beer by green flash. And I absolutely loved the flavor I got from it.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: fmader on April 25, 2016, 03:04:14 PM
Using Pacific Gem as your bittering seems like a big waste of a very tasty hop. I would use the Magnum for bittering instead and but the pacific gem in later in at FO or dry hop. Just my 2 cents! Either way I think you'll have a tasty brew.

Edit for stupid spellcheck.

Thanks Hickory, everything I'd read about this was it was a bittering hop.  I'll use the magnum for bittering, and might add some Pacific Gem to the flameout or dry hop addition.

Ya I've seen that around too, not sure why besides it has pretty high AA's. But to be fair the only experience I've had with it was a single hopped beer by green flash. And I absolutely loved the flavor I got from it.

Yeah. I have never used Pac gem before. I looked it up and saw that a solid substitute was CTZ. I love bittering APA's and IPA's with CTZ, as well as finishing. So I just assumed the same with Pac Gem. Good to know if I ever buy any.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: Hand of Dom on May 04, 2016, 01:22:06 PM
One last bit of advice sought. Planning on brewing this, this weekend, but have realised that I don't have any Maris Otter.  I do have a lot of Dingemanns pale ale malt.  Do you think I could get away with substituting this, or is it a trip to the home brew shop for the real thing?
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: Ethan J on May 04, 2016, 01:31:27 PM
For the record, I just brewed a 1.049 hoppy pale ale at the brewery I work at that was bittered with Pacific Gem to  50 IBUs. I quite enjoy the bittering quality of Pac Gem, it's definitely more assertive than a cleaner hop like Magnum or Warrior (my preference, usually) but it's not nearly as coarse as CTZ. So far, people seem to like it and we will continue to experiment with it as a bittering hop as well as a late addition. Just my $0.02, the recipe looks good to me as you have it now.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: fmader on May 04, 2016, 01:43:03 PM
One last bit of advice sought. Planning on brewing this, this weekend, but have realised that I don't have any Maris Otter.  I do have a lot of Dingemanns pale ale malt.  Do you think I could get away with substituting this, or is it a trip to the home brew shop for the real thing?

I think that would be fine.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: Hand of Dom on May 04, 2016, 09:52:12 PM
In the words of Columbo, one last thing....

I'm using the pale ale profile in Bru'n Water, which has a Sulphate/Chloride target of 300/55 (actual 287/53), but the comment on the sulphate states to stick below 150 unless highly hopped.  Looking at the recipe above, am I in highly hopped territory?  My calculated IBU is 48, mostly from the FW Magnum (which is high for the beers I normally brew).
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: HoosierBrew on May 04, 2016, 10:01:08 PM
In the words of Columbo, one last thing....

I'm using the pale ale profile in Bru'n Water, which has a Sulphate/Chloride target of 300/55 (actual 287/53), but the comment on the sulphate states to stick below 150 unless highly hopped.  Looking at the recipe above, am I in highly hopped territory?  My calculated IBU is 48, mostly from the FW Magnum (which is high for the beers I normally brew).



That's a personal preference thing. I brew a fair amount of hoppy beers and have brewed several beers @ 300ppm SO4, IPAs and APAs. In the last year I've started backing off of the SO4 content because I'm not as fond of the minerally bite of the high levels. I like around 160ppm SO4 now for those beers, but you'll need to experiment to see what you like best. A good starting point might be to try 200ppm sulfate in a beer and see what you think, and adjust up or down on later batches.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: Hand of Dom on May 05, 2016, 10:11:33 AM
Thanks to everyone for their assistance with this recipe.  I'll be brewing it this weekend, and let you know how it turns out.  Cheers.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: dilluh98 on May 05, 2016, 02:45:58 PM
Cheers! Let us know what you think of the bitterness/mineral quality of the beer based on the sulfate concentration you choose. Always good to have more data points.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: Hand of Dom on May 07, 2016, 03:28:40 PM
Just put this in the brew fridge.  Hit my SG, and volume exactly (19L @ 1.055).  Only issue was that I completely forgot to add my lactic acid to the mash and sparge water, so my mash pH is estimated at 5.6.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: Hand of Dom on June 10, 2016, 11:06:20 PM
Tasted the first bottle of this tonight, and it was a tasty beer, although not entirely what I was aiming for.  The colour appears far darker than the 10 SRM I'd calculated it would turn out to be, and it's got a slight caramel taste to it, which I wasn't expecting from such a small amount of carapils.  I think if I make this again I'd cut the dehusked carafa, and the carapils, and possibly reduce the IBU slightly.

In terms of the mineral quality from from the sulphate added, I think going for a 200 target was spot on for this beer, and something I would use again.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: reverseapachemaster on June 11, 2016, 02:38:17 PM
22% munich is more likely the culprit of a caramel-like flavor than 2% carapils.
Title: Re: Pale Ale - help required with hop schedule
Post by: Hand of Dom on June 11, 2016, 04:26:08 PM
22% munich is more likely the culprit of a caramel-like flavor than 2% carapils.

You're probably right, I had another bottle today, and I've got to say I'm very pleased with it.  Whilst it's not the pale ale I set out to make, it does make a very tasty amber ale.  I think I'd use this as the base for future ambers, maybe adding a little rye.