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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: deadpoetic0077 on July 05, 2016, 04:51:36 PM

Title: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: deadpoetic0077 on July 05, 2016, 04:51:36 PM
I am wanting to do an Oktoberfest beer here pretty soon, however I do not have the ability to lager. I don't have any kind of temp controller aside from swamp cooler/ ice.

I am wondering if there are any good recipes out there to do this. I know it wont taste exactly like an Oktoberfest, but im hoping someone has some experience doing this.

Can I just take an Oktoberfest recipe and use ale yeast instead? Has anyone tried this with success? I was looking at this recipe as a potential candidate.

https://byo.com/stories/issue/item/3099-classic-oktoberfest-maerzen

Thanks!
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: BrewBama on July 05, 2016, 05:25:48 PM
I have brewed a (M)Oktoberfest that turned out pretty good. I believe you have many options. For instance, you could use California Common yeast which is a true lager yeast that performs well at Ale temps. Another option could be Mangrove Jac's workhorse yeast which they say is lager-like. Another could be K-97 German Ale yeast which produces clean, clear beer such as Kolsch which is a lager-like beer.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: deadpoetic0077 on July 05, 2016, 06:14:03 PM
I have brewed a (M)Oktoberfest that turned out pretty good. I believe you have many options. For instance, you could use California Common yeast which is a true lager yeast that performs well at Ale temps. Another option could be Mangrove Jac's workhorse yeast which they say is lager-like. Another could be K-97 German Ale yeast which produces clean, clear beer such as Kolsch which is a lager-like beer.

interesting. So I could really use whatever recipe and just substitute for a lager like yeast?

Also you mentioned the California common yeast performs well at ale temps, but don't higher temps usually cause off flavors?
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: fatguybrew on July 05, 2016, 06:19:15 PM
You need to be able to get your fermentation temp down to about 60. If it is possible to get it that low (i.e: Water bath with ice) you should be able to do a very Oktoberfest like ale. The California Common Yeast wants to be kept around 60. But regardless, IMO you are better of using a German Strain with similar temp requirements like a Kolsch or German Dusseldorf Alt yeast. I have had very good success with the Alt strain. Always a fall favorite round my house. Not quite as dry as a MArzen, but damn good!
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: dmtaylor on July 05, 2016, 06:30:21 PM
I really love the Wyeast 1007 altbier yeast.  I'll bet it's as close as anyone can get to a true lager without lagering.  It would be helpful if you can use ice blocks to get it down to about 60 F if you can.  And/or, run an experiment and try it warm and see how that turns out.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: deadpoetic0077 on July 05, 2016, 06:52:06 PM
Those both sound like a great idea. I haven't tried yet, but Im thinking with a swamp cooler/ ice I may be able to get the temps low enough! Well see! Thanks for the help everyone!
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: denny on July 05, 2016, 07:09:54 PM
Like Dave says, WY1007 is as close to a lager yeast as you can get in an ale yeast.  But no matter what yeast you use, it won't be very lager like unless you can find a way to ferment it cool and somehow keep it cold afterwards.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: brewinhard on July 05, 2016, 07:21:50 PM
Like Dave says, WY1007 is as close to a lager yeast as you can get in an ale yeast.  But no matter what yeast you use, it won't be very lager like unless you can find a way to ferment it cool and somehow keep it cold afterwards.

I don't know. Some of Brulosophy's exbeeriments might casually suggest that fermentis 34/70 can ferment above 60F with decent "lager-like" results. That dry strain seems to be fairly forgiving. That might also be an option for you. But either way, keeping your initial fermentation as cool as you can is really the key to producing a mock lager.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: dmtaylor on July 05, 2016, 07:35:17 PM
Like Dave says, WY1007 is as close to a lager yeast as you can get in an ale yeast.  But no matter what yeast you use, it won't be very lager like unless you can find a way to ferment it cool and somehow keep it cold afterwards.

I don't know. Some of Brulosophy's exbeeriments might casually suggest that fermentis 34/70 can ferment above 60F with decent "lager-like" results. That dry strain seems to be fairly forgiving. That might also be an option for you. But either way, keeping your initial fermentation as cool as you can is really the key to producing a mock lager.

Brulosophy also had great success with WLP029 Kolsch yeast which I would also recommend trying.  Very clean stuff indeed, even in upper 60s in my experience.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: dannyjed on July 05, 2016, 08:54:12 PM
Like Dave says, WY1007 is as close to a lager yeast as you can get in an ale yeast.  But no matter what yeast you use, it won't be very lager like unless you can find a way to ferment it cool and somehow keep it cold afterwards.

I don't know. Some of Brulosophy's exbeeriments might casually suggest that fermentis 34/70 can ferment above 60F with decent "lager-like" results. That dry strain seems to be fairly forgiving. That might also be an option for you. But either way, keeping your initial fermentation as cool as you can is really the key to producing a mock lager.
I made a German Pils with 34/70 and fermented at 60 degrees. There were no fruity esters whatsoever and it tasted clean like a fine lager should.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: HoosierBrew on July 05, 2016, 09:10:03 PM
Another +1 for 2124/830/34-70 @ 60F. It's surprisingly clean at that temp - not as clean necessarily as a 50F ferment but clean enough not to be thought of as a 'mocktoberfest'.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: erockrph on July 05, 2016, 09:41:46 PM
I agree wholeheartedly with all the recommendations for W34/70. You will come closer to a lager style beer using 34/70 at ale temps than trying to use an ale yeast. It is my "desert island" strain - you can use it to brew just about anything except hefeweizen and Belgian ales.

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Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: Steve Ruch on July 05, 2016, 09:54:26 PM
Check out my Last Drop column in the Mar/Apr 2016 issue of Zymurgy for a piece on brewing lager without temperature control.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: beersk on July 05, 2016, 10:00:00 PM
But you can top crop wy1007 for a nice clean pitch of yeast for your next beer ;)
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: BrewBama on July 06, 2016, 12:56:06 AM
I have brewed a (M)Oktoberfest that turned out pretty good. I believe you have many options. For instance, you could use California Common yeast which is a true lager yeast that performs well at Ale temps. Another option could be Mangrove Jac's workhorse yeast which they say is lager-like. Another could be K-97 German Ale yeast which produces clean, clear beer such as Kolsch which is a lager-like beer.

interesting. So I could really use whatever recipe and just substitute for a lager like yeast?

Also you mentioned the California common yeast performs well at ale temps, but don't higher temps usually cause off flavors?

Great advice above. ...but yes, Cali Common is a true lager yeast used to ferment at Ale temps.


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Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: denny on July 06, 2016, 03:48:22 PM
Like Dave says, WY1007 is as close to a lager yeast as you can get in an ale yeast.  But no matter what yeast you use, it won't be very lager like unless you can find a way to ferment it cool and somehow keep it cold afterwards.

I don't know. Some of Brulosophy's exbeeriments might casually suggest that fermentis 34/70 can ferment above 60F with decent "lager-like" results. That dry strain seems to be fairly forgiving. That might also be an option for you. But either way, keeping your initial fermentation as cool as you can is really the key to producing a mock lager.

1007 works better.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: denny on July 06, 2016, 03:49:28 PM

Great advice above. ...but yes, Cali Common is a true lager yeast used to ferment at Ale temps.


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Is it really a "true" lager yeast?
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: 3bbrewing on July 06, 2016, 05:13:25 PM
Hi Denny, what makes you question if cali common (WLP810 etc.) is a "true lager" yeast??  It definitely falls in the "hybrid yeast" category in that it can ferment well in a wide range of temps and/or temps not typical of the strain Saccharomyces Pastorianus, similar to other yeasts such as WLP862.  WLP810/2112/GY005 are listed as a lager yeast by White Labs, Wyeast, Gigayeast and others. 
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: denny on July 06, 2016, 05:41:09 PM
Hi Denny, what makes you question if cali common (WLP810 etc.) is a "true lager" yeast??  It definitely falls in the "hybrid yeast" category in that it can ferment well in a wide range of temps and/or temps not typical of the strain Saccharomyces Pastorianus, similar to other yeasts such as WLP862.  WLP810/2112/GY005 are listed as a lager yeast by White Labs, Wyeast, Gigayeast and others.

Although I've seen them listed as lager yeasts, I've also heard that they're more of a cross.  I have no idea of that's true, so I was hoping someone would have some verification, like a DNA analysis.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: ynotbrusum on July 06, 2016, 06:35:47 PM
To the OP - you could also consider a simple fermenter box made of insulated foam insulation held together with some duct tape in which to put your fermenter or water bath for the fermenter.  It need not be fancy - indeed I know of guys that lager that way all the time.  With switching out frozen water bottles, you can lager pretty reliably, especially in a cool basement, if you have access to that.

Then you can use any lager yeast....
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: denny on July 06, 2016, 06:54:02 PM
To the OP - you could also consider a simple fermenter box made of insulated foam insulation held together with some duct tape in which to put your fermenter or water bath for the fermenter.  It need not be fancy - indeed I know of guys that lager that way all the time.  With switching out frozen water bottles, you can lager pretty reliably, especially in a cool basement, if you have access to that.

Then you can use any lager yeast....

http://www.ihomebrewsolutions.com/son-of-fermentation-chiller/
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: deadpoetic0077 on July 06, 2016, 09:28:41 PM
To the OP - you could also consider a simple fermenter box made of insulated foam insulation held together with some duct tape in which to put your fermenter or water bath for the fermenter.  It need not be fancy - indeed I know of guys that lager that way all the time.  With switching out frozen water bottles, you can lager pretty reliably, especially in a cool basement, if you have access to that.

Then you can use any lager yeast....

http://www.ihomebrewsolutions.com/son-of-fermentation-chiller/

Now that's a pretty cool solution too. Doesn't look like itd be super costly either.

To everyone else with this discussion, I really appreciate all the input!

Thanks!
Title: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: BrewBama on July 06, 2016, 10:52:47 PM

Great advice above. ...but yes, Cali Common is a true Lager yeast used to ferment at Ale temps.


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Is it really a "true" lager yeast?

Interesting. I've always read Cali Common (aka Steam Beer) is a lager brewed at ale temps. I never thought to question these sources. Here are some examples:

http://www.bjcp.org/docs/2015_Guidelines_Beer.pdf

"History: ...Fermented with a lager yeast, but one that was selected to ferment relatively clean beer at warmer temperatures..."

http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/06/11/steam-beer-and-california-common-recipes-beer-styles/

"...it is a lager beer fermented at high temperatures (between 60-65F)..."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_beer

"...brewed with lager yeast without the use of true refrigeration[1]..."

https://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/nevada/bre.htm

"The Carson Brewery made steam beer, a bottom-fermenting brew produced without the constant cold temperatures required by lagers."

http://www.beer-faq.com/steam-beer/

"Therefore, they created a brewing process that used a lager yeast (bottom fermentation), but fermented at ale (top fermentation) temperatures."

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Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: JJeffers09 on July 07, 2016, 03:26:32 PM
wlp060 is what I am thinking about using for an Oktoberfest.  My cold ferm chamber is full and I am going back to a swamp cooler days, should be fun.  Although I can stay on top of my brew all day since I work from home.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: zwiller on July 08, 2016, 02:28:43 PM
Another +1 for 2124/830/34-70 @ 60F. It's surprisingly clean at that temp - not as clean necessarily as a 50F ferment but clean enough not to be thought of as a 'mocktoberfest'.

Another happy guy with 3470 @ 60F.  I am BJCP and you are gonna have to bring your A game to successfully ID the differences in beers made 10 degrees apart with this yeast.  I think this is a huge game changer for homebrewers.  No fridge and no starter but yet good beer.  That said, I do think the 3470 needs fining.  It did not flocc well at all even cold crashed for me. 
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: erockrph on July 09, 2016, 01:56:23 AM
Another +1 for 2124/830/34-70 @ 60F. It's surprisingly clean at that temp - not as clean necessarily as a 50F ferment but clean enough not to be thought of as a 'mocktoberfest'.

Another happy guy with 3470 @ 60F.  I am BJCP and you are gonna have to bring your A game to successfully ID the differences in beers made 10 degrees apart with this yeast.  I think this is a huge game changer for homebrewers.  No fridge and no starter but yet good beer.  That said, I do think the 3470 needs fining.  It did not flocc well at all even cold crashed for me.
I agree - if you aren't equipped for an extended lagering period, then gelatin is your friend with 34/70.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: deadpoetic0077 on July 09, 2016, 06:03:32 PM
Another +1 for 2124/830/34-70 @ 60F. It's surprisingly clean at that temp - not as clean necessarily as a 50F ferment but clean enough not to be thought of as a 'mocktoberfest'.

Another happy guy with 3470 @ 60F.  I am BJCP and you are gonna have to bring your A game to successfully ID the differences in beers made 10 degrees apart with this yeast.  I think this is a huge game changer for homebrewers.  No fridge and no starter but yet good beer.  That said, I do think the 3470 needs fining.  It did not flocc well at all even cold crashed for me.
I agree - if you aren't equipped for an extended lagering period, then gelatin is your friend with 34/70.

So I will be doing a BIAB for the recipe I listed in the first post and it uses irish moss. I have seen a lot more people using gelatin as opposed to irish moss. Is there any significant difference?

Also, this will be my first BIAB and I am wondering how much I should be using for my starting water. I have seen a lot of people use 6.5 when doing BIAB for a 5 gal batch. Does that seem about right? Also I have seen some people sparge when doing BIAB. Should you sparge to increase your efficiency when doing BIAB if you have a way of doing that? Such as a turkey frier with the bag attached to the fry basket?
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: brewinhard on July 09, 2016, 06:51:34 PM
Another +1 for 2124/830/34-70 @ 60F. It's surprisingly clean at that temp - not as clean necessarily as a 50F ferment but clean enough not to be thought of as a 'mocktoberfest'.

Another happy guy with 3470 @ 60F.  I am BJCP and you are gonna have to bring your A game to successfully ID the differences in beers made 10 degrees apart with this yeast.  I think this is a huge game changer for homebrewers.  No fridge and no starter but yet good beer.  That said, I do think the 3470 needs fining.  It did not flocc well at all even cold crashed for me.
I agree - if you aren't equipped for an extended lagering period, then gelatin is your friend with 34/70.

So I will be doing a BIAB for the recipe I listed in the first post and it uses irish moss. I have seen a lot more people using gelatin as opposed to irish moss. Is there any significant difference?

Also, this will be my first BIAB and I am wondering how much I should be using for my starting water. I have seen a lot of people use 6.5 when doing BIAB for a 5 gal batch. Does that seem about right? Also I have seen some people sparge when doing BIAB. Should you sparge to increase your efficiency when doing BIAB if you have a way of doing that? Such as a turkey frier with the bag attached to the fry basket?

I have not yet attempted a BIAB batch, so I can't assist on that one.

But as for gelatin vs irish moss/whirlfloc tablets, gelatin is a post-fermentation fining agent that is used to help drop out yeast in suspension. It is typically added to a cold beer prior to packaging.
Irish moss/whirlfloc is a kettle fining agent that is added during the last 15 minutes (or so) of the boil to help clarify the wort when it is cooled prior to pitching your yeast.

Gelatin - post fermentation fining
Irish moss - kettle fining
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: dmtaylor on July 10, 2016, 12:59:43 PM
So I will be doing a BIAB for the recipe I listed in the first post and it uses irish moss. I have seen a lot more people using gelatin as opposed to irish moss. Is there any significant difference?

Also, this will be my first BIAB and I am wondering how much I should be using for my starting water. I have seen a lot of people use 6.5 when doing BIAB for a 5 gal batch. Does that seem about right? Also I have seen some people sparge when doing BIAB. Should you sparge to increase your efficiency when doing BIAB if you have a way of doing that? Such as a turkey frier with the bag attached to the fry basket?

Difference between Irish moss and gelatin: Gelatin works.  Irish moss doesn't always work.  That's my experience.

Grains soak up 0.1 gallons per pound, so account for the amount of grains when calculating water.  And then of course you'll probably be boiling off a gallon if you boil for 60-75 minutes, so add a gallon for that.  Then if you want to leave any sediment behind from the grains or cold break, add a quart or two for that.  You might need 6.5 gallons, might need 7 gallons -- it's all up to you and your own experience.  You'll have to play around for a couple of batches to find out all your own adjustments to use.

Yes, I am an advocate for sparging with BIAB to improve efficiency.  There's two ways of sparging BIAB that I have experience with:

1) The simple dunk sparge.  You need a separate kettle to heat up sparge water, and then either dunk the heavy grain bag into that kettle if it's big enough (probably not) or pour the hot water into a 6-gallon bucket and dunk that way, then mix all the wort back together into the main kettle.

2) The colander/basket sparge.  Still requires a second kettle for heating up sparge water.  From there you essentially have to place your grain bag into the colander or basket over yet another bucket and or drain the hot sparge water over it.  This method can be effective but is very very slow, and for that reason I don't do it much anymore.  Dunking is easy.

With these methods and a good crush, you can achieve 85-90% or even higher efficiency.  However, I'm also not an advocate for that either.  Sometimes, good enough really is good enough.  If your efficiency without a sparge is 75% or more, it might be best just to skip the sparge altogether, seriously.  I sparge nowadays for the biggest gravity beers, but for smaller beers (<1.055 or so) I usually skip it because you can get great efficiency just from draining the bag and moving on.

Enjoy.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: Joe Sr. on July 12, 2016, 03:16:52 AM
To the OP - you could also consider a simple fermenter box made of insulated foam insulation held together with some duct tape in which to put your fermenter or water bath for the fermenter.  It need not be fancy - indeed I know of guys that lager that way all the time.  With switching out frozen water bottles, you can lager pretty reliably, especially in a cool basement, if you have access to that.

Then you can use any lager yeast....

http://www.ihomebrewsolutions.com/son-of-fermentation-chiller/

If your ambient air is cool enough (maybe not so easy this time of year) I've found it's easier just to put the fermenter in a rubbermaid tub filled with water and add frozen 1 liter ice bottles.  I cover it with pink foam insulation, but if you could wrap it with that stuff it would work even better.  Low tech, but it works.  Better yet would be a cooler that fits a carboy.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: majorvices on July 12, 2016, 12:36:13 PM
If you can ferment WY1007 at 60 degrees (72 hours is all you really need to keep the temp that low, the first 3 days of active fermentation) and then keep it cold (below 45 degrees) you will hardly be able to distinguish that yeast from a lager. I do agree that 2124/830/34-70 @ 60F. can work well, many commercial breweries that brew lagers use that lager strain as their "ale" strain at that temp. But nothing beats WY1007 as a lager like beer.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: deadpoetic0077 on July 12, 2016, 04:00:55 PM
So I will be doing a BIAB for the recipe I listed in the first post and it uses irish moss. I have seen a lot more people using gelatin as opposed to irish moss. Is there any significant difference?

Also, this will be my first BIAB and I am wondering how much I should be using for my starting water. I have seen a lot of people use 6.5 when doing BIAB for a 5 gal batch. Does that seem about right? Also I have seen some people sparge when doing BIAB. Should you sparge to increase your efficiency when doing BIAB if you have a way of doing that? Such as a turkey frier with the bag attached to the fry basket?

Difference between Irish moss and gelatin: Gelatin works.  Irish moss doesn't always work.  That's my experience.

Grains soak up 0.1 gallons per pound, so account for the amount of grains when calculating water.  And then of course you'll probably be boiling off a gallon if you boil for 60-75 minutes, so add a gallon for that.  Then if you want to leave any sediment behind from the grains or cold break, add a quart or two for that.  You might need 6.5 gallons, might need 7 gallons -- it's all up to you and your own experience.  You'll have to play around for a couple of batches to find out all your own adjustments to use.

Yes, I am an advocate for sparging with BIAB to improve efficiency.  There's two ways of sparging BIAB that I have experience with:

1) The simple dunk sparge.  You need a separate kettle to heat up sparge water, and then either dunk the heavy grain bag into that kettle if it's big enough (probably not) or pour the hot water into a 6-gallon bucket and dunk that way, then mix all the wort back together into the main kettle.

2) The colander/basket sparge.  Still requires a second kettle for heating up sparge water.  From there you essentially have to place your grain bag into the colander or basket over yet another bucket and or drain the hot sparge water over it.  This method can be effective but is very very slow, and for that reason I don't do it much anymore.  Dunking is easy.

With these methods and a good crush, you can achieve 85-90% or even higher efficiency.  However, I'm also not an advocate for that either.  Sometimes, good enough really is good enough.  If your efficiency without a sparge is 75% or more, it might be best just to skip the sparge altogether, seriously.  I sparge nowadays for the biggest gravity beers, but for smaller beers (<1.055 or so) I usually skip it because you can get great efficiency just from draining the bag and moving on.

Enjoy.

This was super helpful! Thanks!
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: Visor on July 13, 2016, 05:28:54 PM
   With regards to BIAB, I used a bag in my 10 gallon cooler/mash tun for the last several brews and intend to continue doing due to the results. The bag I'm using is claimed to be able to handle 100 lbs. of grain and water, I believe it probably can. With the bag I find I can get away with a slightly finer crush of the grain which seems to result in reduced mash times and increased yield, and still have fairly fast runoff. I do batch sparge. The last batch the SG of the initial runoff was 1.071 and the sparge was 1.031 so I guess you decide whether or not you want to recover that extra stuff. With the bag I am able to recover more wort than I could with either the cooler mash tun alone, or mashing in my G2 with a false bottom, and the whole process is much easier. When I'm done I simply take the bag out to the compost pile and dump it.
  As for increasing the volume of the batch, if you don't adjust your ingredient list accordingly your OG will obviously be lower than it otherwise would be.
   Hope this helps.

     
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: dilluh98 on July 13, 2016, 05:55:48 PM
If your ambient air is cool enough (maybe not so easy this time of year) I've found it's easier just to put the fermenter in a rubbermaid tub filled with water and add frozen 1 liter ice bottles.  I cover it with pink foam insulation, but if you could wrap it with that stuff it would work even better.  Low tech, but it works.  Better yet would be a cooler that fits a carboy.

http://www.cool-brewing.com/

I have a few and they work great. They are water tight so submersion is possible but I've found very little temperature fluctuation with just exchanging 1L ice bottles once or twice per day and no water.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: Iliff Ave on July 13, 2016, 08:41:19 PM
Before I could do lagers I did a mocktoberfest using US05. It may have not be 'lager-like' per se but it was still clean, damn good, and tasted very German to me. If it was me, I would just go with what is the easiest and least stressful for you out of the options presented. Sometimes it's better to go the path of least resistance instead of worrying about the semantics of a style. In short, a good ocktoberfest recipe with ale yeast will still be very tasty.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: Lazy Ant Brewing on July 16, 2016, 05:06:45 PM
Are there any significant differences in recipes titled (M)oktoberfest and Oktoberbfest other than the yeast?

I was thinking about picking one of several Oktoberfest recipes from back issues of BYO and substituting either WY1007 or WLP810 for the yeast in the magazine recipe.

Comments please and thanks in advance for your answers.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: BrewBama on July 16, 2016, 07:28:36 PM
Are there any significant differences in recipes titled (M)oktoberfest and Oktoberbfest other than the yeast?

I was thinking about picking one of several Oktoberfest recipes from back issues of BYO and substituting either WY1007 or WLP810 for the yeast in the magazine recipe.

Comments please and thanks in advance for your answers.

I have brewed (M)Oktoberfest using the same recipe and substituting nothing but the yeast. It turns out great. YMMV. Cheers!


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Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: HoosierBrew on July 16, 2016, 09:43:01 PM
Are there any significant differences in recipes titled (M)oktoberfest and Oktoberbfest other than the yeast?


No, the defining difference is lager vs ale yeast. The grist, IBU etc., would be the same.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: deadpoetic0077 on August 19, 2016, 03:14:27 PM
So the brew day was successful! Everything went well for my first BIAB. I ended up following brulosophys (m)Oktoberfest recipe.

The beer has been churning away since last wed (so 9 days now) and it is still bubbling very very slowly! After 5 days, the gravity had dropped to about 1.022 and was going very slowly. I removed it from the ice/ swamp cooler (which first couple days was around 58-60f, and stayed around 60-63f for another couple days) and let it free rise to room temp (around 72f).

This thing is STILL bubbling after 4 more days of room temp. FG seems fairly stable at 1.020 which, goal was 1.015. Should I let it keep churning away at room temp or have I left it too long already? Should I just cold crash and bottle? 1.020 seems OK for this style and from what I know, a .005 difference is not a large difference in taste.

Thanks again for all your help with this first BIAB! I appreciate everyones input.

P.S. -  yeast was WLP029

EDIT: I used a 1L starter for this yeast as well. fermented it for about 3.5-4 days till it slowed down and cold crashed for 1.5-2 days.  No krausen on the starter or in the actual carboy , but there was a great yeast cake at the bottom of the starter and carboy. I decanted about half of the beer off the starter after cold crashing it and pitched the rest after rewarming it up to pitching temp.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: Joe Sr. on August 19, 2016, 03:42:05 PM
Let it go until it is finished. More time won't hurt it.

If it's still dropping its not done.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: dmtaylor on August 19, 2016, 03:54:29 PM
It's almost done but not quite.  Just a little patience.  Yeah.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: deadpoetic0077 on August 19, 2016, 04:01:22 PM
Let it go until it is finished. More time won't hurt it.

If it's still dropping its not done.

So keeping it at the room temp shouldn't hurt it? seemed to me that really the first few days were the most critical for temp. But room temp for longer periods of time shouldn't produce any off flavor?
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: HoosierBrew on August 19, 2016, 04:16:11 PM
Let it go until it is finished. More time won't hurt it.

If it's still dropping its not done.

So keeping it at the room temp shouldn't hurt it? seemed to me that really the first few days were the most critical for temp. But room temp for longer periods of time shouldn't produce any off flavor?


No, it'll be fine at warm temps for a few more weeks even. You really want to let the yeast eat every bit of sugar that they can, to give you the drinkability that an Ofest should have. Keep checking FG every couple days until you start getting consistent readings. Then letting the beer sit a few days after FG to let the yeast clean up fermentation byproducts is a good practice, too.


Edit - The beer doesn't need to sit for weeks by any means. Just saying that autolysis wouldn't be an issue in the short term.
Title: Re: Oktoberfest Ale
Post by: deadpoetic0077 on August 19, 2016, 07:37:26 PM
Let it go until it is finished. More time won't hurt it.

If it's still dropping its not done.

So keeping it at the room temp shouldn't hurt it? seemed to me that really the first few days were the most critical for temp. But room temp for longer periods of time shouldn't produce any off flavor?


No, it'll be fine at warm temps for a few more weeks even. You really want to let the yeast eat every bit of sugar that they can, to give you the drinkability that an Ofest should have. Keep checking FG every couple days until you start getting consistent readings. Then letting the beer sit a few days after FG to let the yeast clean up fermentation byproducts is a good practice, too.


Edit - The beer doesn't need to sit for weeks by any means. Just saying that autolysis wouldn't be an issue in the short term.

Thanks! That's what I was hoping to hear! Thanks!