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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: majorvices on July 05, 2010, 02:40:19 PM

Title: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: majorvices on July 05, 2010, 02:40:19 PM
Going through some of my older malts and I have a couple pounds of Gambrinous Honey Malt that I'd like to use in something. I was thinking about a hoppy American Wheat with wildflower honey at knockout (or perhaps even during fermentation to preserve some honey character.) I don't want to add too much honey because 1) its expensive and 2) don't want to dry the beer out. So I was wondering about enhanccing the honey character with the honey malt.

I've used it before and my recollection is that it can be  a bit overwhealming. Currently I have it notched in at about 4.3% of the grain bill.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: bonjour on July 05, 2010, 02:48:21 PM
My calc came out slightly less,  I figured a half pound in a 5 gallon batch, in an American wheat should be about right, in another style with more going on I'd say a pound.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: Robert on July 05, 2010, 02:48:54 PM
Recipe: CLB's Honey Blond Ale

Style: Blonde Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)
Recipe Specifications --------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.74 gal
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG
Estimated Color: 5.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 15.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients: ------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 84.2 %
0.85 lb Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 8.9 %
0.65 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.8 %
0.50 oz Pearle [8.00%] (60 min) Hops 13.6 IBU
0.60 oz Hallertauer [4.80%] (5 min) Hops 2.0 IBU
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) [StartYeast-Ale]
Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 9.50 lb
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 11.88 qt of water at 161.4 F 150.0 F 75 min Mash Out Add 7.60 qt of water at 205.8 F 170.0 F 10 min

This is a great beer. I have it on tap currently. I bumped the honey malt in my version up to 1 lb. and my IBU's to around 18. A very refreshing beer with a nice touch of honey in the finish.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: majorvices on July 05, 2010, 03:20:36 PM
Thanks guys. I should say that my version of an American Wheat has a hop profile more like a Pale ale. Sitting about 30 BUs now with a lot of Amarillo late hop additions. 4.3% is exactly at .5 lbs per 5 gallons for this recipe (1.056 beer.) Think I should just leave it?
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: bonjour on July 05, 2010, 04:04:57 PM
With a lot of late hopped amarillo I would consider upping it.  Me, I would go to a pound, but then I do crazy things, but the hops are going to cover the honey you are looking for so an increase, IMHO, is in order to maintain the "honey" character.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: dean on July 05, 2010, 04:36:00 PM
Thanks guys. I should say that my version of an American Wheat has a hop profile more like a Pale ale. Sitting about 30 BUs now with a lot of Amarillo late hop additions. 4.3% is exactly at .5 lbs per 5 gallons for this recipe (1.056 beer.) Think I should just leave it?

I've never tried it with a wheat, I'm not much of a wheat fan, but half a pound is good in a pale ale with a pound of munich and having the gravity you're making.  It might be sweet with mostly wheat and no other specialty malt that has some backbone.  jmo...
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: majorvices on July 05, 2010, 05:57:25 PM
So, what do ya'll who have used it really think about how much honey characteristic it leaves in the beer? I have used it before but questioned how much honey flavor it actually imparts. But reading several posts many people seem to think it does impart some honey flavor. Course it may have been the beer I used it in. I have only used it in darker ales.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: denny on July 05, 2010, 05:58:24 PM
I'd say "some" and it's not exactly what you may think of as honey. 
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: Robert on July 05, 2010, 06:00:46 PM
I used it around 10% in that Blonde and it's defintiely sweet. Not cloying mind you, but I can definitely detect a 'honey-like' flavor.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: MDixon on July 05, 2010, 06:39:40 PM
I'd suggest a pound or 10% (whichever is less) for your first venture.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: Hokerer on July 05, 2010, 08:57:37 PM
Thanks guys. I should say that my version of an American Wheat has a hop profile more like a Pale ale. Sitting about 30 BUs now with a lot of Amarillo late hop additions. 4.3% is exactly at .5 lbs per 5 gallons for this recipe (1.056 beer.) Think I should just leave it?

I'd leave it.  My Honey Wheat uses the same .5 lbs of Honey Malt for a 5 gallon batch.  A little goes a long way.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: sienabrewer on July 06, 2010, 02:11:28 PM
Wow, I am definitely going to go against what everyone else says here.  First, you will get a slight "honey" flavor, if any at all.  I think a better description would be just sweet.  Second, I think you are absolutely going to notice it at a half of a pound.  1 full pound in an American Wheat is far too much.  As a point of reference I used 6 oz in a blonde (other grains were pale malt, munich, and vienna) and I knew it was there.  I cut it back to 4 oz the next time and it was just right.  This malt is strong and will dominate the beer to disgust if used too much.  That being said, I have never tried honey malt with the late hopping rate you going to use so I can't comment how that will offset the sweetness.  However, my opinion is to start small and work your way up next time, not the other way around. 
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: dak0415 on July 06, 2010, 02:31:51 PM
I just made a "Honey Blonde" for the 4th that was 9# Pils, 1# Wheat, and .5# Honey Malt(5 gallon).  Expecting the sweetness, I dropped my mash temp to 148 (from 150) and with only 11 IBUs of Fuggle,  the honey aroma was evident, crisp up front, with slight honey in the aftertaste but not sweet.  The finish was actually dry and refreshing.  Everyone said it was a keeper.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: beerocd on July 06, 2010, 03:39:56 PM
Thanks guys. I should say that my version of an American Wheat has a hop profile more like a Pale ale. Sitting about 30 BUs now with a lot of Amarillo late hop additions. 4.3% is exactly at .5 lbs per 5 gallons for this recipe (1.056 beer.) Think I should just leave it?

Ever have Gumballhead from 3Floyd's? Sounds close, but with honey.

Edit: Just to add; it's definitely one of my favorite beers.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: beveragebob on September 01, 2010, 11:51:29 PM
Yeah I agree... a little goes a long way. I never use more than a half pound in a 5 gallon batch. I'm wondering why you're going for a honey flavor when you apparently are going to have it more hop forward than malty.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: weazletoe on September 02, 2010, 12:45:26 AM
I've used it before in a 5gal batch. IIRC, I used about .25#, maybe even less. Was not over powering, but as far as tasting like a honey wheat, not so much.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: majorvices on September 02, 2010, 01:03:39 AM
I tried some of this beer again tonight and the answer is ZERO! Its one of those malts I tried 5 or 6 years ago and forgot how much I don't like it. As soon as I tasted it, I remembered. Doesn't taste like honey AT ALL.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: MDixon on September 02, 2010, 09:36:33 PM
I have to disagree. It does have a sweetness which will remind one of honey. The flavor of the raw grain is pretty awful and acidic, but in beer it has a honey character. You won't perceive fresh comb or anything like that, but it will have that sort of sweetness. At one time I used a bunch of it, but now only for my Aye Corona recipe (which has nothing in common with Corona).
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: denny on September 03, 2010, 03:43:54 PM
I've always thought that it did add a slight honey taste to the beer, but I really wonder how much of that is psychological.  I've done enough study of how preconceptions effect perception to be skeptical of my own tastings when it isn't done blind.  And I haven't done that with honey malt.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: beveragebob on September 04, 2010, 02:32:26 AM
I remember about 10 or 11 years ago I did a single malt mash- 5 galllon batch- with Honey Malt(supposedly it can convert itself to a fair degree). I'd have to dig up my notes what I used with hops and yeast but, I just remember the resulting beer tasting like burnt marshmallows. IIRC, I think it became drain cleaner.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: MDixon on September 04, 2010, 11:20:32 AM
Yep, in very high quantities I have heard exactly the same thing...burnt marshmallows.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: majorvices on September 04, 2010, 01:15:06 PM
Welp - this beer doesn't taste like honey at all. AND I even put a fair amount of honey in at flame out. The Honey Malt does have a unique flavor but IMO it is not suited well for lighter style beers. Probably would be good in darker ales, however.
Title: Re: How much honey malt for a slight honey flavor?
Post by: beveragebob on September 05, 2010, 04:45:54 AM
I think of Honey Malt as a "Super Munich" variety and like it when it is used sparingly along with other specialty grains.