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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: dswhelan on September 03, 2016, 02:18:43 AM

Title: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: dswhelan on September 03, 2016, 02:18:43 AM
Can someone help me understand exactly what the designation (whirlpool 10 min) means?   I see this on Amahl Turczyn's recent Zymurgy Ballast Point Grapefruit Sculpin Clone recipe.

Does the "10 minute" designation refer to the length of the whirlpool, or a time delay after starting the whirlpool?

I find articles suggesting different approaches for homebrewers with respect to whirlpool hop additions, including maintaining a flame on but lowering the wort temperature to around 200 degrees, and some suggesting much lower temperatures.

My standard practice has been to start my chiller soon after flameout and to use a spoon to whirlpool as a means to get the wort to cool faster.   

My assumption for this recipe is that I should add the whirlpool hops at the beginning of the whirlpool and maintain the whirlpool for 10 minutes before chilling.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: ynotbrusum on September 03, 2016, 10:38:58 AM
Welcome to the forum.  You are right that there are many ways to do this and you should try out different things to see what you like, but typically a whirlpool occurs at flame out prior to chilling.  The 10 minutes noted would be the length of the stand (I.e., the "rest" at that temp).
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: dswhelan on September 03, 2016, 06:54:43 PM
Thank you!
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: tesgüino on September 04, 2016, 04:41:42 PM
The 10 minutes noted would be the length of the stand (I.e., the "rest" at that temp).
Yeah, if the recipe said to whirlpool for 10 minutes without a temperature, it's incomplete. I would take that to mean tossing in the hops at flame-out and waiting 10 minutes before starting to chill. The problem with doing that alone is that you'll still be pulling significant bitterness and losing the aroma/flavor you'd get with a lower temperature whirlpool.
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: Village Taphouse on September 04, 2016, 05:03:41 PM
Many brewers have been bringing the whirlpool temp down to about 175° first, adding the hops and leaving them in the whirpool for 10 minutes (also called a 'hopstand', I believe) and then continuing the chill after that.  But I agree... without a little more detail, the information is not complete.
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: tesgüino on September 04, 2016, 05:43:19 PM
adding the hops and leaving them in the whirpool for 10 minutes (also called a 'hopstand', I believe)
Not an expert, but I think that whirlpooling can be done can be done with or without hops. Whereas, like it says, a hop stand needs hops and can be done with or without whirlpooling (using a pump or any other method to create the whirlpool).

Whirlpool hopping has the advantage of keeping the hops in suspension and extracting more of the flavor and aroma and can even be done with a spoon. Even if you're not whirlpooling, the stand part of hopstand, is the length of time you hold a temperature.

At least that's my take on it?
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: Village Taphouse on September 07, 2016, 04:27:10 PM
adding the hops and leaving them in the whirpool for 10 minutes (also called a 'hopstand', I believe)
Not an expert, but I think that whirlpooling can be done can be done with or without hops. Whereas, like it says, a hop stand needs hops and can be done with or without whirlpooling (using a pump or any other method to create the whirlpool).

Whirlpool hopping has the advantage of keeping the hops in suspension and extracting more of the flavor and aroma and can even be done with a spoon. Even if you're not whirlpooling, the stand part of hopstand, is the length of time you hold a temperature.

At least that's my take on it?
Very possible and thanks for the clarification.  I am not a hophead although I do love my pale ales.  I have been in the habit of adding hops during the last 5 minutes, adding a flameout, putting the lid on and just letting the hops "steep" and also chilling to 175°, adding hops, stirring with an SS spoon and eventually continuing the chill.  People who are more inclined to be hopheads have a lot of terminology and gadgets to get their IPAs where they want them. 
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: HoosierBrew on September 07, 2016, 04:32:33 PM
  I have been in the habit of adding hops during the last 5 minutes, adding a flameout, putting the lid on and just letting the hops "steep" and also chilling to 175°, adding hops, stirring with an SS spoon and eventually continuing the chill.  People who are more inclined to be hopheads have a lot of terminology and gadgets to get their IPAs where they want them. 


FWIW I'm a hophead and that's pretty much exactly what I do.

Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: zwiller on September 07, 2016, 06:55:05 PM
IMO 10m is a rather short WP for IPA.  Probably the shortest I've seen actually.  I would be worried 10m at 175 might be barely be detectable.  I usually do 30m hot.  I did 15m hot but was really subdued. 
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: HoosierBrew on September 07, 2016, 06:58:11 PM
IMO 10m is a rather short WP for IPA.  Probably the shortest I've seen actually.  I would be worried 10m at 175 might be barely be detectable.  I usually do 30m hot.  I did 15m hot but was really subdued. 


I like 20-30 mins for APA, 45-60 mins for AIPA, stirring frequently. I agree that 10 mins just wouldn't get it done for AIPA.
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: zwiller on September 07, 2016, 07:35:31 PM
IMO 10m is a rather short WP for IPA.  Probably the shortest I've seen actually.  I would be worried 10m at 175 might be barely be detectable.  I usually do 30m hot.  I did 15m hot but was really subdued. 


I like 20-30 mins for APA, 45-60 mins for AIPA, stirring frequently. I agree that 10 mins just wouldn't get it done for AIPA.

What's your take on 30m high temp vs 60m low temp?  I found them similar and stuck to short one.
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: HoosierBrew on September 07, 2016, 07:46:32 PM
What's your take on 30m high temp vs 60m low temp?  I found them similar and stuck to short one.


Depends on the temps you mean. I do mine in the 170-175F range for the most part. As for the lower 120F stand some guys are doing, I haven't done one yet but plan to on an upcoming APA. From what I've read and brewers I've talked to, a longer stand @ 120F is likely beneficial as extraction of compounds can take longer as temps go down (think dry hopping). Regardless of temp, I like longer for IPA, shorter for APA.
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: zwiller on September 07, 2016, 07:52:21 PM
I forgot that 120F is the new low temp...  I meant 30m >175F/no chill vs 60m <175F/chilled. 
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: HoosierBrew on September 07, 2016, 07:56:35 PM
I forgot that 120F is the new low temp...  I meant 30m >175F/no chill vs 60m <175F/chilled. 


Gotcha. Truthfully I settled at 170ish mostly because it's cool enough not to add extra bitterness. I didn't see a lot of difference in extraction time between flameout and 170F.
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: hopfenundmalz on September 07, 2016, 08:31:11 PM
This is to be a clone of a commercial beer. Does anyone know a commercial brewery that has a chiller between the kettle and whirlpool? I don't, but it could be done.

So I think the 10 minutes at high temp could be fine for cloning this beer, but maybe a little short.

Edit - as homebrewers we can do what we want.
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: zwiller on September 07, 2016, 08:48:33 PM
This is to be a clone of a commercial beer. Does anyone know a commercial brewery that has a chiller between the kettle and whirlpool? I don't, but it could be done.

Touche'.  This is also the reason I stick to higher temps.  They could transfer to another vessel (dedicated WP) and that could drop the temp maybe.  Who cares, adding fruit to an IPA is sacrilege anyway...  ;D
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: hopfenundmalz on September 07, 2016, 09:00:02 PM
This is to be a clone of a commercial beer. Does anyone know a commercial brewery that has a chiller between the kettle and whirlpool? I don't, but it could be done.

Touche'.  This is also the reason I stick to higher temps.  They could transfer to another vessel (dedicated WP) and that could drop the temp maybe.  Who cares, adding fruit to an IPA is sacrilege anyway...  ;D
Yes it will drop the temperature, but a 100 bbls (use your favorite breweries kettle size here) of recently boiling wort into a whirlpool will drop it a little, but would guess not <200 F.
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: Stevie on September 07, 2016, 09:25:16 PM
Isn't keeping hop material out of the heat exchanger the original purpose of a the whirlpool? So, I don't think many would want to chill ahead of the whirlpool unless they use something closer to what we consider a counterflow chiller vs a plate chiller.
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: zwiller on September 07, 2016, 09:39:24 PM
This is to be a clone of a commercial beer. Does anyone know a commercial brewery that has a chiller between the kettle and whirlpool? I don't, but it could be done.

Touche'.  This is also the reason I stick to higher temps.  They could transfer to another vessel (dedicated WP) and that could drop the temp maybe.  Who cares, adding fruit to an IPA is sacrilege anyway...  ;D
Yes it will drop the temperature, but a 100 bbls (use your favorite breweries kettle size here) of recently boiling wort into a whirlpool will drop it a little, but would guess not <200 F.

Honestly, I don't know, interesting stuff.  I have also wondered if they run the WP for some time prior to adding any hops.  To me, it's less about exactly how to do it and more about the concept getting the majority of your IBU from the WP rather than boil. 
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: HoosierBrew on September 07, 2016, 09:57:37 PM
Honestly, I don't know, interesting stuff.  I have also wondered if they run the WP for some time prior to adding any hops.  To me, it's less about exactly how to do it and more about the concept getting the majority of your IBU from the WP rather than boil. 


To me, it just illustrates how we can have the flexibility at home to do it our way, and not feel limited by procedures that breweries do because they have to. For me, it's about getting all of my target IBUs at 60 mins, but loading the pot with hops @ 170F to get a s#!*ton of flavor and aroma with little or no extra bitterness. Doing it your own way rocks.
Title: Re: Whirlpool Hops Addition Terminology Question
Post by: hopfenundmalz on September 08, 2016, 07:32:45 AM
This is to be a clone of a commercial beer. Does anyone know a commercial brewery that has a chiller between the kettle and whirlpool? I don't, but it could be done.

Touche'.  This is also the reason I stick to higher temps.  They could transfer to another vessel (dedicated WP) and that could drop the temp maybe.  Who cares, adding fruit to an IPA is sacrilege anyway...  ;D
Yes it will drop the temperature, but a 100 bbls (use your favorite breweries kettle size here) of recently boiling wort into a whirlpool will drop it a little, but would guess not <200 F.

Honestly, I don't know, interesting stuff.  I have also wondered if they run the WP for some time prior to adding any hops.  To me, it's less about exactly how to do it and more about the concept getting the majority of your IBU from the WP rather than boil.

I have been to one where they place the whirlpool hops in the whirpool before. I have read others add hops later. Comes down to the equipment and what the brewery wants to do for the beer.