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Other than Brewing => The Pub => Topic started by: skyler on October 25, 2016, 08:14:25 PM

Title: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: skyler on October 25, 2016, 08:14:25 PM
Sometimes the issues with English conventions and usage in these forums feels like an itch I can't scratch because I don't want to be a jerk and tell people their spelling sucks. So I decided to scratch that itch here by showcasing a few common errors on these forums in the hopes that a few of my fellow homebrewing enthusiasts will notice the next time they use the wrong "your." Please feel free to add to this list.

Lose ≠ Loose. Your loose grip on spelling will make me lose my mind.

Your = belongs to you, You're = you are. You're unfortunate if your K-12 education didn't teach you this rule.

Pallet = the wooden shipping platform that gets carried by a fork lift. Palate = a person's appreciation of taste and flavor, among other things.

There's = there is, There're = there are. There're many reasons why you should learn proper English contractions, but there's always one dummy who forgets how to contract.

Now, for some advanced level punctuating:

1. That one brewer's stout was tasty.
2. Those two brewers' porters were both good.
3. Mr. Jones's amber ale was only mediocre.

Apostrophe Source: https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/621/01/ (https://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/621/01/)

Ok, you can all hate me now.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: pete b on October 25, 2016, 08:24:40 PM
I was an English major and have written plenty of legal documents as a lawyer. When its appropriate my grammar can be perfect. Here I don't want to bother with all that. If people understand what I'm saying its all good, and life is certainly too short for others' grammar to bother me.
If anything I'm surprised, given the percentage of posts probably written under the influence, by how solid the communication is here. The grammar is not always perfect but its always easy to understand.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: homoeccentricus on October 25, 2016, 08:36:16 PM
Sometimes the issues with English conventions and usage in these forums feels like an itch

"feel"
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: homoeccentricus on October 25, 2016, 08:38:06 PM
When its appropriate my grammar can be perfect ...  but its always easy to understand.

To obvious, pete.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: HoosierBrew on October 25, 2016, 09:02:20 PM
Sometimes the issues with English conventions and usage in these forums feels like an itch

"feel"



:)  Irony at its finest.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: a10t2 on October 25, 2016, 09:07:24 PM
Pallet = the wooden shipping platform that gets carried by a fork lift. Palate = a person's appreciation of taste and flavor, among other things.

Don't forget palette: a range of colors, shapes, tones, etc.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: Frankenbrew on October 25, 2016, 09:42:08 PM
I was an English major and have written plenty of legal documents as a lawyer. When its appropriate my grammar can be perfect. Here I don't want to bother with all that. If people understand what I'm saying its all good, and life is certainly too short for others' grammar to bother me.
If anything I'm surprised, given the percentage of posts probably written under the influence, by how solid the communication is here. The grammar is not always perfect but its always easy to understand.

I'm an English teacher, and I agree with Pete. For the most part, the level of communication on this forum is very good. I almost never have a hard time understanding what posters are saying.

Also, as an English teacher, I know that one can turn people off very quickly by pointing out their minor mistakes. I never correct anyone's grammar unless he or she asks me to.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: dmtaylor on October 25, 2016, 09:55:42 PM
You'll be hard-pressed to find any errors in any of my writing.  Some laziness, perhaps, such as the lack of a proper subject in this very sentence.  But that's about it.  Also note: I write a hell of a lot more fancy than I speak in real life.  My speech is chock-full of "yeah", "uh-huh", "nope", and swear words.

To Denny and Drew: my favorite curse words start with s--- and b----.  My real favorite that I use at least once a month is "son of a mother ------- wh---".  I've always wanted to tell you guys that.  ;)
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: natebrews on October 25, 2016, 10:09:45 PM
Oh yes, thank you all for saying these words.  They bring comfort to my heart, since alot of people screw up so much when writing good :D
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: HoosierBrew on October 25, 2016, 10:11:50 PM
You'll be hard-pressed to find any errors in any of my writing.  Some laziness, perhaps, such as the lack of a proper subject in this very sentence.  But that's about it.  Also note: I write a hell of a lot more fancy than I speak in real life.  My speech is chock-full of "yeah", "uh-huh", "nope", and swear words.

To Denny and Drew: my favorite curse words start with s--- and b----.  My real favorite that I use at least once a month is "son of a mother ------- wh---".  I've always wanted to tell you guys that.  ;)



I resemble all of this.  ;D
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: JJeffers09 on October 25, 2016, 10:16:41 PM
I think this is a forum about homebrewing.  If there is a proper English forum you may want to seek it out and discuss your grievances.  I for one could care less if someone doesn't practice proper English during informal conversation.  You may call it what you will, but I would bet you a round of beer that you wouldn't correct someone at a bar.  What's the point of doing it here?

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: dmtaylor on October 25, 2016, 10:18:53 PM
I think this is a forum about homebrewing.  If there is a proper English forum you may want to seek it out and discuss your grievances.  I for one could care less if someone doesn't practice proper English during informal conversation.  You may call it what you will, but I would bet you a round of beer that you wouldn't correct someone at a bar.  What's the point of doing it here?

Initially I'd honestly wondered the same thing.  Then I figured... what the hell (Doc Brown style).
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: natebrews on October 25, 2016, 10:26:33 PM
I would say (and I know that I'm in the minority on this by a wide margin) that the ongoing trend of "it doesn't matter, as long as I get the point across" only leads to lower expectations of everyone all the time.  It doesn't take much more time to just try a little and make things much better.  Must we always lower the bar?

(I know, I'm just a grumpy old man and should accept it and shut up)
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: a10t2 on October 25, 2016, 10:50:59 PM
I for one could care less

FWIW, I don't think I've ever corrected a stranger's grammar in a bar, but I would and do correct friends all the time.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: beersk on October 25, 2016, 10:55:11 PM
I think this is a forum about homebrewing.  If there is a proper English forum you may want to seek it out and discuss your grievances.  I for one could care less if someone doesn't practice proper English during informal conversation.  You may call it what you will, but I would bet you a round of beer that you wouldn't correct someone at a bar.  What's the point of doing it here?

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk


Could or couldn't care less? There is a difference there... This is one I typically do correct any and all people on.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: Joe Sr. on October 25, 2016, 10:56:00 PM
I get it, but sometimes it just not worth it.  People in my office can't compose a proper English sentence in business communication so perhaps my expectations have been lowered.

That said, I do my best.  And I restructure my sentences to avoid the dreaded apostrophe.

If you want to get heated, let's argue about how to pronounce "Pliny."
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: JJeffers09 on October 25, 2016, 11:31:59 PM
It's informal conversation, and to me that gives anyone a little wiggle room.  You point out an author that doesn't need an editor and I will point out a unicorn.

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: yso191 on October 26, 2016, 01:00:36 AM
It's informal conversation, and to me that gives anyone a little wiggle room.  You point out an author that doesn't need an editor and I will point out a unicorn.

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

I agree.  'Conversational' should be the name of the game here.  I tend to read and reread my posts at least 3 times for spelling and grammar, but even then I sometimes have to go back and edit a post.  Some sloppiness irritates me here but it is rare.  Sometimes I can't even discern what a post is attempting to say.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: JJeffers09 on October 26, 2016, 01:02:58 AM
It's informal conversation, and to me that gives anyone a little wiggle room.  You point out an author that doesn't need an editor and I will point out a unicorn.

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

I agree.  'Conversational' should be the name of the game here.  I tend to read and reread my posts at least 3 times for spelling and grammar, but even then I sometimes have to go back and edit a post.  Some sloppiness irritates me here but it is rare.  Sometimes I can't even discern what a post is attempting to say.
Also, there should be a 5 beer buffer... just saying

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: GS on October 26, 2016, 04:22:43 AM
I will agree that there are plenty of people that couldn't find a coherent sentence with two hands and a flashlight, but in the end if I understand what the person is saying, it's not worth being a grammar nazi.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: guido on October 26, 2016, 09:16:25 AM
I would say (and I know that I'm in the minority on this by a wide margin) that the ongoing trend of "it doesn't matter, as long as I get the point across" only leads to lower expectations of everyone all the time.  It doesn't take much more time to just try a little and make things much better.  Must we always lower the bar?

(I know, I'm just a grumpy old man and should accept it and shut up)

I'm a grammar Nazi, but I only correct my closest of friends. I also realize I'm in the minority (actually, I become worried when I'm in the majority) and agree that society has become incredibly dumbed down. I have a hard time finding mediocrity to be acceptable.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: homoeccentricus on October 26, 2016, 10:31:41 AM
I'm the ultimate grammar nazi who has turned into an anti grammar nazi nazi. I deliberately make mistakes, and when a grammar nazi crawls out of their hole, I suck their blood.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: kramerog on October 26, 2016, 01:56:14 PM
The idea that a forum is like a conversation with a few friends is a false paradigm.  Since 100 people or more read a post, it makes more sense for the writer to put a little more effort into being clear than for 100 people to each put in more effort to understand.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: reverseapachemaster on October 26, 2016, 02:40:48 PM
I think this is a forum about homebrewing.  If there is a proper English forum you may want to seek it out and discuss your grievances.  I for one could care less if someone doesn't practice proper English during informal conversation.  You may call it what you will, but I would bet you a round of beer that you wouldn't correct someone at a bar.  What's the point of doing it here?

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Not every person who reads the forum counts English as their first language. Improper spelling and grammar can be confusing to somebody who is not familiar with common misspellings and incorrect grammar in English. We could certainly scare off some of these readers with:

Let's eat Grandpa!

versus:

Let's eat, Grandpa!
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: Alewyfe on October 26, 2016, 02:47:12 PM
I'm usually on this forum to learn something...OK, sometimes just to be delightfully entertained. If I happen to come away with not only a better understanding of some brewing technique but a little better grammar as well that's just a bonus. I will never be upset by someone who's intent is to help me become better. If on the other hand I perceive that you are lording your superior intellect over me or denigrating me or anyone else in any way, I will seek you out and cave in your face.

To put someone in a position that they didn't feel comfortable posting here because they are poor spellers or grammatically challenged would be to our loss as a community.

It's all about how and when we offer advice. The original poster didn't finger anyone. They just made a general comment. If the shoe fits, wear it. If you prefer to go barefoot, you're welcome here too.

Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: JJeffers09 on October 26, 2016, 02:50:38 PM
If a grown adult is scared of a forum because someone says, "Lets eat grandpa!" Then I am at a loss for words.

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: Slowbrew on October 26, 2016, 03:05:48 PM
I think this is a forum about homebrewing.  If there is a proper English forum you may want to seek it out and discuss your grievances.  I for one could care less if someone doesn't practice proper English during informal conversation.  You may call it what you will, but I would bet you a round of beer that you wouldn't correct someone at a bar.  What's the point of doing it here?

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Not every person who reads the forum counts English as their first language. Improper spelling and grammar can be confusing to somebody who is not familiar with common misspellings and incorrect grammar in English. We could certainly scare off some of these readers with:

Let's eat Grandpa!

versus:

Let's eat, Grandpa!

My kids all loved that joke.  It usually starts with "Commas save lives..."  8^)

One mistake that used to drive crazy was misusing Affect and Effect.  It isn't all that hard to see the difference but so many people type it incorrectly.

My biggest mistake, generally, is dropping out words as I type.  I think "we cannot go into that" and type "
we can go into that".  Many  a battle has ensued in work emails because of that little tick.  Unfortunately, even rereading the sentence won't always show it to you because your mind fills in what is missing.  That's why you tell kids to read to the wall.

If you want to see pedantic fights get out of hand spend some time on Slashdot.org.  It used to be a great tech site but has sunk really far in recent years.

I promise to do my best to be clear and ask for forgiveness when I fail.

Paul
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: HoosierBrew on October 26, 2016, 03:35:58 PM
I think there needs to be a balance struck. When you can google pretty much any brewing issue and an AHA link comes up among others, it's safe to assume that a few thousand people, many of them non-forum members, are getting their impressions of AHA (and info) in part from our posts. So there is an obligation to at least try to come off coherent and correct. But at the same time, crossing over into belittling or embarrassing people obviously isn't ok. After all, we're just making beer.

Personally, I read and re-read my posts to be sure my grammar is good, and often edit for that. But grammar and spelling come easy to me - there are people that struggle with grammar and spelling who are far better at higher math than I am.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: a10t2 on October 26, 2016, 04:07:56 PM
I will never be upset by someone who's intent is to help me become better.

That's good, because "who's" is the contracted form of "who is". "Whose" is the possessive pronoun. ;)

One mistake that used to drive crazy was misusing Affect and Effect.  It isn't all that hard to see the difference but so many people type it incorrectly.

The one that absolutely kills me is ensure vs. insure. "Insure" has one very specific definition, yet I see it all over the place.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: erockrph on October 26, 2016, 06:13:50 PM
One other reason to cut some slack on forums like this is that so many of the posts are coming from someone's mobile device. Between fat fingers and autocorrect, I've had my share of phone posts that I've either needed to edit or convince myself that it wasn't worth the effort.

Personally, my biggest issue with bad grammar and spelling is that it leaves the reader with the impression that the poster either doesn't care, or is unintelligent. That's why I try to take a little extra effort when I can. Still, this is a casual forum and I definitely cut an appropriate amount of slack.

The only exception is "irregardless" - that word drives me insane.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: skyler on October 26, 2016, 06:15:05 PM
Sometimes the issues with English conventions and usage in these forums feels like an itch

"feel"

touché  ;D
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 26, 2016, 06:41:22 PM
My typing, spelling, proofreading are all suspect. Autocorrect often changes something I have typed, much to my chagrin.

After a beer or three, or before the morning coffee, more errors are made.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: skyler on October 26, 2016, 07:17:20 PM
First of all, I don't ever want to correct anyone in a discussion here because that would be rude. That's why I made this its own post in "the pub."


I would say (and I know that I'm in the minority on this by a wide margin) that the ongoing trend of "it doesn't matter, as long as I get the point across" only leads to lower expectations of everyone all the time.  It doesn't take much more time to just try a little and make things much better.  Must we always lower the bar?

(I know, I'm just a grumpy old man and should accept it and shut up)

I agree with this.

In truth, poor grammar isn't a big deal on these forums, but I thought it was a topic worthy of a little discussion here and I felt like venting a bit. I also teach English and I have had students (high school seniors, even) who do not know basic capitalization rules or the difference between "ru" and "are you" because the only writing they encounter is informal discussion online. I do think it is worth making a basic effort online, but I don't think it is a big deal when people mess up. And I am not above criticism on this. But I do prefer reading complete sentences using properly-spelled words and effective punctuation.

i go other forums like gaming forums 'were not understanding ppl's saying. cause their not riteing complete sentinces or fix the gramer or whatevs. My venting here may have something to do with that.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: Steve Ruch on October 26, 2016, 09:35:33 PM
People who use really bad grammar come across as unintelligent to most other people. As do people who have to use cursing and vulgarity to express themselves.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: Joe Sr. on October 26, 2016, 09:37:13 PM
People who use really bad grammar come across as unintelligent to most other people. As do people who have to use cursing and vulgarity to express themselves.

Maybe this is why I'm constantly underestimated...
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: Brew Cat on October 27, 2016, 04:42:12 PM
People who use really bad grammar come across as unintelligent to most other people. As do people who have to use cursing and vulgarity to express themselves.

Maybe this is why I'm constantly underestimated...
I love that. Brewing forum is no place for Grammer cops. I'm sure someone caught that. Head over to Goodreads they make you a moderator
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: Steve Ruch on October 28, 2016, 05:31:31 PM
People who use really bad grammar come across as unintelligent to most other people. As do people who have to use cursing and vulgarity to express themselves.

Maybe this is why I'm constantly underestimated...
I love that. Brewing forum is no place for Grammer cops. I'm sure someone caught that. Head over to Goodreads they make you a moderator

I don't correct anyone who uses bad grammar, it would be a never ending battle and I have better uses for my time.
Title: Re: Spelling and Grammar
Post by: JoanMCD on March 29, 2021, 12:36:38 PM
Guys, I've been living in the US for six months now and I still can't learn English. I started learning English a year ago when I knew that I would be moving to the United States and for a year I have very few changes. I can't speak English fluently. How can I overcome my shyness in speaking English? I have no problems with grammar, but I have big problems with pronunciation so I'm really shy to start a conversation with someone. Now I have found the second-grade reading comprehension (https://englishlinx.com/reading/second-grade-reading/) and try to read the texts out loud to overcome shyness. I also want to find a friend on the Internet who would just communicate with me in English, thereby taking me out of my comfort zone.