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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: bayareabrewer on December 30, 2016, 10:09:54 PM

Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on December 30, 2016, 10:09:54 PM
About 10 years ago on a different forum, a thread like this was pretty fun and popular, we just gotta stick to one rule, no arguing or trying to change opinions. Just state your opinion or belief about brewing that doesn't seem popular..

Mine is.... I don't like Citra hops, they taste like soap and bell peppers to me.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dls5492 on December 30, 2016, 10:39:53 PM
I don't know if mine is unpopular or not. But, I don't like to drink while I'm brewing. It's a matter of safety and paying attention to detail.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 30, 2016, 11:00:05 PM
I know it's popular right now but after 2 or 3 years of tinkering, I've decided I don't enjoy making sour beers or even prefer them often. I'd rather buy a good bottle of sour whatever occasionally when I'm in the mood and have equipment not tied up for 6 months+ on something I feel lukewarm about. Cantillon quality is not in my future and I'm good with it (love their stuff now and then though).
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on December 30, 2016, 11:15:06 PM
I don't dig beers over 10% alcohol. I have a few favorites that happen to exceed that but as a general rule I prefer less than 9% with 10% as a max.

I just can't see a legitimate reason to have beers that are 12% and above.


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on December 30, 2016, 11:18:42 PM
I don't dig beers over 10% alcohol. I have a few favorites that happen to exceed that but as a general rule I prefer less than 9% with 10% as a max.

I just can't see a legitimate reason to have beers that are 12% and above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sometimes it seems like there's a tipping point with high ABV beer and beer flavor, the difference between say a 5 % to a 7% beer versus a 8% to 10%.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 30, 2016, 11:26:48 PM
I don't dig beers over 10% alcohol. I have a few favorites that happen to exceed that but as a general rule I prefer less than 9% with 10% as a max.

I just can't see a legitimate reason to have beers that are 12% and above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sometimes it seems like there's a tipping point with high ABV beer and beer flavor, the difference between say a 5 % to a 7% beer versus a 8% to 10%.


I give a good Quad a pass there (being one of my favorite styles), but I attribute that to the attenuation vs many barleywines or RIS by comparison. But I agree, I'm brewing less big beers as time goes by.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on December 30, 2016, 11:37:37 PM
me too. Rarely dip above 6 or 7%
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on December 30, 2016, 11:44:04 PM
I don't dig beers over 10% alcohol. I have a few favorites that happen to exceed that but as a general rule I prefer less than 9% with 10% as a max.

I just can't see a legitimate reason to have beers that are 12% and above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

sometimes it seems like there's a tipping point with high ABV beer and beer flavor, the difference between say a 5 % to a 7% beer versus a 8% to 10%.


I give a good Quad a pass there (being one of my favorite styles), but I attribute that to the attenuation vs many barleywines or RIS by comparison. But I agree, I'm brewing less big beers as time goes by.

Don't get me wrong I still go big with commercial beers. Rochefort 10, SB ABT 12, Expedition, Ballantine Burton Ale, etc.

I definitely won't brew anything of my own over 9% though. It seems like OG creep is a real thing, with people brewing 15% beers for reasons I can't fathom. 1.120 OG and you're having fermentation and attenuation issues? Go figure!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on December 30, 2016, 11:45:15 PM
Unpopular opinions, eh?  I'm hip...

I am a malt-head (as opposed to a hophead).  I like IPA just fine, but what I really love is all the lagers, Scottish ales, etc.

I can taste a nasty twang in your extract beer every time.  If you must use extract, then partial mash is way better, and all-grain is best.

I don't think rye tastes spicy, not in the slightest.  It's bready and a bit earthy, but no spice.  Any spice is associated with caraway or choice of spicy hops.

Carapils is worthless.  I've been saying this looooooooooooooong before the existence of the recent xBmt.

American commercial breweries just really don't know how to make good Marzens, or don't care.  I think I might be done tasting American versions, life is too short and it just doesn't pay.

Almost every gose on the market is way too effing salty to be enjoyable.  If you can taste the salt, you did it wrong.

Session IPA, Black IPA, Brown IPA, and Purple IPA are all terms that need not exist.

Homegrown hops are better for bittering than for flavor or aroma.  Learn what your average alpha acid is through trial and error, like in the old days before the term "alpha acid" existed.   :o

You don't need to rehydrate your dry yeast.  It's one of the big advantages of dry.  I know Denny agrees, but many do not, that's why I include this as an "unpopular" opinion.

Glass fermenters are better than plastic buckets.  There, I said it, again.  Glass is dangerous, yes.  Do be very careful with your big heavy glass carboys.  Fortunately, stainless would also be fine.

If you value your time and just want to get your brew day over with, then you are wasting a lot of time if you mash any longer than 40 minutes, and probably about the same for boil time as well.  Could save some energy costs there too.

Step mashes are probably worthless.  More experiments are a good idea but I'll probably not bother.  When in doubt, just mash at 150 F for 40 minutes.  You'll get very good beer with this mash "schedule".  And...

If the temperature falls a few degrees during the mash, who cares.  It'll be fine.  I don't insulate.

It might not be worthwhile to chase high efficiency >85%.  I finally ran one blind triangle efficiency experiment but need to run more as the results still were not very clear.

I only brew 1.7 gallons typically.  There are numerous advantages to doing so.  5 gallons is too much for many people.  I also brew on the stovetop, never did anything else and don't own a propane burner.  I am ridiculed endlessly by my "friends" for being "the small batch on the stove guy".  Whatever.  Do what you like.

And... that about does it, for right now.   ;D
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: flars on December 31, 2016, 12:03:49 AM
Extract is okay but the only way to brew great tasting beer is all grain.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: natebrews on December 31, 2016, 12:10:21 AM
Designing recipes is an art, the brewing process is a science.  Those that confuse the two are doomed to have the magic pixies that 'make it go' generally frowning at them.

And if you don't measure anything or take notes, then why are you bothering?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Phil_M on December 31, 2016, 12:17:33 AM
IPAs are incredibly overrated.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on December 31, 2016, 12:20:31 AM
I'm just almost there with ya. I did two batches of roselare beer this year as a last try. 100% pilsner, no hops, roselare, tart cherry concentrate in one, pomegranate concentrate in the other.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on December 31, 2016, 12:22:19 AM
I don't dig beers over 10% alcohol. I have a few favorites that happen to exceed that but as a general rule I prefer less than 9% with 10% as a max.

I just can't see a legitimate reason to have beers that are 12% and above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Me too. If I need more alcohol I have a Caucasian
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on December 31, 2016, 12:27:40 AM
For most beer drinkers these terms are interchangeable. IPA, craft beer, microbrew.

These same people know for a fact that dark beer is strong and thick, and German.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: neddles on December 31, 2016, 12:31:27 AM
IBU are a nearly worthless measure in beers with a lot of flavor/aroma hops. Only slightly better in other styles.

Fuggles are delicious.

Crystal malt can work perfectly well in hoppy beer and many other styles. It all depends on the specific malt, its flavor, how it is used and how old the beer is.

Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: natebrews on December 31, 2016, 12:31:40 AM
For most beer drinkers these terms are interchangeable. IPA, craft beer, microbrew.

These same people know for a fact that dark beer is strong and thick, and German.

They're called cicerones. 

(sorry, couldn't help myself)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on December 31, 2016, 12:33:10 AM
Step mashes are probably worthless as well.  More experiments are a good idea but I'll probably not bother.  When in doubt, just mash at 150 F for 40 minutes.  You'll get very good beer with this mash "schedule".

Everyone has to mash to what is in their capability but if you can direct fire step mash you can't get a much better schedule than 20-30 min β rest into a 30 min α rest on your way to a 10 min MO.

Short and sweet with all the attenuation, body and foam you could ever want. Just another opinion of course. So I guess this post is my unpopular position that step mashes aren't useless!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on December 31, 2016, 12:42:56 AM
One of my unpopular methods is that I have two stirplates, which I only use for stiring agar into plate and slant media. I use oxygen to make yeast starters, and I pitch them at high krausen rather than letting them go dormant and crash/decant.

Hopefully it stays unpopular. I'd be fine with that being my little secret.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: RC on December 31, 2016, 12:46:41 AM
I am NOT a fan of fruit, spices, coffee, chocolate, etc. (including, now, vegetables--yuck) in my beer. If I want to taste grapefruit, I will eat a grapefruit, but please don't put it in my beer. It's not that I'm a grouchy old man clinging to a "back in my day" mentality, nor am I a Reinheitsgebot fanatic. And I keep an open mind when tasting beer. But I have never found a beer's flavor to be enhanced by adding this stuff to it. It just tastes really gross to me. And pumpkin beer? No thanks.
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: BrewBama on December 31, 2016, 12:57:55 AM
Unpopular opinions, eh?  I'm hip...

I am a malt-head (as opposed to a hophead).  I like IPA just fine, but what I really love is all the lagers, Scottish ales, etc.

...

You don't need to rehydrate your dry yeast.  It's one of the big advantages of dry.  I know Denny agrees, but many do not, that's why I include this as an "unpopular" opinion.

...

Step mashes are probably worthless.  More experiments are a good idea but I'll probably not bother. ...

If the temperature falls a few degrees during the mash, who cares.  It'll be fine.  I don't insulate.

...

I choose these unpopular ideas ^^ as my own as well.

I was glad to see Brewing Classic Styles list dry yeast for each of the recipes (though there are more out there now.)

I choose this one as well:


I remember Denny saying that people should make beer flavored beer. I thought, "what fun is that?"

But... he's right. ...

"I have coined a phrase that will serve you well in your experimentation, "The better part of flavor is discretion." A beer with 20% molasses is going to taste like fermented molasses, not beer." John Palmer


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on December 31, 2016, 01:05:52 AM
I am NOT a fan of fruit, spices, coffee, chocolate, etc. (including, now, vegetables--yuck) in my beer. If I want to taste grapefruit, I will eat a grapefruit, but please don't put it in my beer. It's not that I'm a grouchy old man clinging to a "back in my day" mentality, nor am I a Reinheitsgebot fanatic. And I keep an open mind when tasting beer. But I have never found a beer's flavor to be enhanced by adding this stuff to it. It just tastes really gross to me. And pumpkin beer? No thanks.
I remember Denny saying that people should make beer flavored beer. I thought, "what fun is that?"

But... he's right. So are you.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on December 31, 2016, 01:14:41 AM
Once you are able to make good beer you need not be anal. I can make good beer without software and terribly precise measurements and not take notes. I don't recommend this if your new or trying to perfect something or dial in a new system of course and this isn't how I brew all the time but I sometimes figure out strike and sparge amounts literally on the back of an envelope, measure water with the marks I etched on my kettles, and add hops based on experience without calculating ibus. And they taste great!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dls5492 on December 31, 2016, 01:21:04 AM
IPAs are incredibly overrated.

Amen.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 31, 2016, 01:36:38 AM
I am NOT a fan of fruit, spices, coffee, chocolate, etc. (including, now, vegetables--yuck) in my beer. If I want to taste grapefruit, I will eat a grapefruit, but please don't put it in my beer. It's not that I'm a grouchy old man clinging to a "back in my day" mentality, nor am I a Reinheitsgebot fanatic. And I keep an open mind when tasting beer. But I have never found a beer's flavor to be enhanced by adding this stuff to it. It just tastes really gross to me. And pumpkin beer? No thanks.
I remember Denny saying that people should make beer flavored beer. I thought, "what fun is that?"

But... he's right. So are you.


Agreed. No offense to anybody who likes these things. I just steer away from beers like this with the exception of using coffee occasionally in stout. But I don't like it to overpower - I don't want carbonated, alcoholic coffee. Just a subtle accent (mostly aroma) to add to the roasted character. Each his own.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: yso191 on December 31, 2016, 01:38:03 AM
I've spent the last 30 minutes trying to come up with something, to no avail.  there are things I do which may be different than what others do, but I apparently have no unpopular brewing opinions.  I have jettisoned some, for example the spice/fruit/whatever additions.  I don't typically go for those but it depends (I just had a terrific Abyss last night).

I also don't think there are too many IPAs in the world.  I guess I am Switzerland.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 31, 2016, 01:45:37 AM
I also don't think there are too many IPAs in the world.  I guess I am Switzerland.


I'm with you. I love IPAs (well made ones anyway, which rules out a good many) and APAs. I always have one on tap. But I love variety, too. That leaves the other taps for malty lagers or whatever. I have beer drinker's ADD. 
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: santoch on December 31, 2016, 01:46:37 AM
IPAs are incredibly overrated.

Amen.

Agreed.  I love a good IPA, but they are NOT my go to beers.

I'll throw these out there.

"Beer connoisseurs" that can't find the simple elegance of and skill involved to create a well made Pilsner, Helles, or even -- I'll say it -- an American Lager, haven't been tasting/making beer long enough.  This is why I never bother with the beer ratings sites.

Similarly, my favorite categories to judge are CAT 1 and CAT 2. (Light Lagers and Pilsners).
1) Only the very best brewers and the most naive ones enter them.  This makes judging them either a joy to drink or a quick list of obvious flaws.  Few are in the middle.  Makes judging them pretty quick and usually easy.
2) Nobody else wants to judge them, so I don't have to beg like the 30 guys trying to get the Sours or Strong Belgians.
3) You aren't hammered by lunch
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: RC on December 31, 2016, 01:49:00 AM
Once you are able to make good beer you need not be anal. I can make good beer without software and terribly precise measurements and not take notes. I don't recommend this if your new or trying to perfect something or dial in a new system of course and this isn't how I brew all the time but I sometimes figure out strike and sparge amounts literally on the back of an envelope, measure water with the marks I etched on my kettles, and add hops based on experience without calculating ibus. And they taste great!

No school like the old school! Amen.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on December 31, 2016, 01:51:43 AM
never thought about beer styles from a judges point of view, interesting points on being a judge and judging lagers. I like the part about "the best brewers or the most naïve" enter that category. I'll enter one of mine in the next comp I try and see which category I fall in :)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: braufessor on December 31, 2016, 02:26:25 AM
If given the choice between most Belgian beers and a cold can of Milwaukee's Best Light, I will take the MBL 9 times out of 10.





Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on December 31, 2016, 03:19:41 AM
I'll throw these out there.

"Beer connoisseurs" that can't find the simple elegance of and skill involved to create a well made Pilsner, Helles, or even -- I'll say it -- an American Lager, haven't been tasting/making beer long enough.  This is why I never bother with the beer ratings sites.

Similarly, my favorite categories to judge are CAT 1 and CAT 2. (Light Lagers and Pilsners).
1) Only the very best brewers and the most naive ones enter them.  This makes judging them either a joy to drink or a quick list of obvious flaws.  Few are in the middle.  Makes judging them pretty quick and usually easy.
2) Nobody else wants to judge them, so I don't have to beg like the 30 guys trying to get the Sours or Strong Belgians.
3) You aren't hammered by lunch

(http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af341/dmtaylo1/LikesThis.jpg)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: tommymorris on December 31, 2016, 05:00:29 AM
I don't like pepper, fruit, sour, spice, salt, smoke, bourbon, wood, imperial, 57 hops blended so I can't pick out any of them, bacteria, yeast from people's beards or horses in my beer. This eliminates most of the craft brew market. So, I brew my own.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on December 31, 2016, 05:06:49 AM
When I say Belgian, I mean Trappist. And Duvel. Plus St. Bernardus. I don't dig regional Belgian beers, or Lambic, etc.

I think there needs to be a clear dividing line. I'm trying to get better about prefacing with Trappist or Monastic.


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Philbrew on December 31, 2016, 05:19:43 AM
I started out homebrewing (this edition) believing I was a lager only guy, but I've fallen in love with saisons.  Is this an "unpopular" brewing opinion?  ???
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on December 31, 2016, 05:36:24 AM
I started out homebrewing (this edition) believing I was a lager only guy, but I've fallen in love with saisons.  Is this an "unpopular" brewing opinion?  ???

Saison is everywhere.  Your opinion is quite popular.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: santoch on December 31, 2016, 06:48:05 AM
I started out homebrewing (this edition) believing I was a lager only guy, but I've fallen in love with saisons.  Is this an "unpopular" brewing opinion?  ???

Saison is everywhere.  Your opinion is quite popular.

The Reinheitsge-stapo might feel otherwise, but I agree, LOTS of people have latched onto Saison.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on December 31, 2016, 08:32:00 AM
Unpopular opinions, eh?  I'm hip...

I am a malt-head (as opposed to a hophead).  I like IPA just fine, but what I really love is all the lagers, Scottish ales, etc.

I can taste a nasty twang in your extract beer every time.  If you must use extract, then partial mash is way better, and all-grain is best.

I don't think rye tastes spicy, not in the slightest.  It's bready and a bit earthy, but no spice.  Any spice is associated with caraway or choice of spicy hops.

Carapils is worthless.  I've been saying this looooooooooooooong before the existence of the recent xBmt.

American commercial breweries just really don't know how to make good Marzens, or don't care.  I think I might be done tasting American versions, life is too short and it just doesn't pay.

Almost every gose on the market is way too effing salty to be enjoyable.  If you can taste the salt, you did it wrong.

Session IPA, Black IPA, Brown IPA, and Purple IPA are all terms that need not exist.

Homegrown hops are better for bittering than for flavor or aroma.  Learn what your average alpha acid is through trial and error, like in the old days before the term "alpha acid" existed.   :o

You don't need to rehydrate your dry yeast.  It's one of the big advantages of dry.  I know Denny agrees, but many do not, that's why I include this as an "unpopular" opinion.

Glass fermenters are better than plastic buckets.  There, I said it, again.  Glass is dangerous, yes.  Do be very careful with your big heavy glass carboys.  Fortunately, stainless would also be fine.

If you value your time and just want to get your brew day over with, then you are wasting a lot of time if you mash any longer than 40 minutes, and probably about the same for boil time as well.  Could save some energy costs there too.

Step mashes are probably worthless.  More experiments are a good idea but I'll probably not bother.  When in doubt, just mash at 150 F for 40 minutes.  You'll get very good beer with this mash "schedule".  And...

If the temperature falls a few degrees during the mash, who cares.  It'll be fine.  I don't insulate.

It might not be worthwhile to chase high efficiency >85%.  I finally ran one blind triangle efficiency experiment but need to run more as the results still were not very clear.

I only brew 1.7 gallons typically.  There are numerous advantages to doing so.  5 gallons is too much for many people.  I also brew on the stovetop, never did anything else and don't own a propane burner.  I am ridiculed endlessly by my "friends" for being "the small batch on the stove guy".  Whatever.  Do what you like.

And... that about does it, for right now.   ;D
Now that's a mic drop
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on December 31, 2016, 08:58:51 AM
Good thread. Here are a few more.

Most expertise on brewing forums is regurgitated on the fly from Google and not based on experience. (This forum much better than others in this regard)

Sparging is usually pointless.

Heavy dry hopping can ruin beer and introduce off flavours.

Flavour and aroma are the same thing.

Subtle flavours can be more enjoyable than overpowering flavours.

Belgian beers excepted, most beers should be under 5℅ alcohol.

Many homebrewers drink unhealthy amounts of alcohol and brew too strong. Check out the most popular recipes on HBT for evidence - they are nearly all >6%.

Fizzy yellow lager is good.

All clone recipes are rubbish.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: homoeccentricus on December 31, 2016, 09:36:57 AM
I don't like 95 percent of the homebrews I taste. And I can't lie. So I either say it as it is or I stammer something meaningless.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on December 31, 2016, 12:16:02 PM
It turns out most "unpopular" brewing opinions are actually quite popular.
I'll try again:
Becoming a beer judge is a bad idea. If you love beer why on earth would you train yourself to pick up flaws that you couldn't taste before?. Simple recognition of off flavors and their causes is more than enough to improve your homebrewing. I miss the days of liking beers because they taste good and am sick of the heady descriptions of their "flavor profile" . Beer shouldn't be pretentious but it is.
Entering competitions is a waste of time and money. Everyone complains that the feedback is inconsistent and incomplete at best and flat out no good at worse so the "I enter for the feedback" argument doesn't fly.
The rest of competitions seems to be slavishly adhering to style and gaming the system. Then it's just luck to see if those godawful pretentious beer judges like your beer better than others today. I am not paying to send them my hard earned home brew thank you very much!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on December 31, 2016, 12:54:07 PM
Good thread. Here are a few more.

Most expertise on brewing forums is regurgitated on the fly from Google and not based on experience. (This forum much better than others in this regard)

Sparging is usually pointless.

Heavy dry hopping can ruin beer and introduce off flavours.

Flavour and aroma are the same thing.

Subtle flavours can be more enjoyable than overpowering flavours.

Belgian beers excepted, most beers should be under 5℅ alcohol.

Many homebrewers drink unhealthy amounts of alcohol and brew too strong. Check out the most popular recipes on HBT for evidence - they are nearly all >6%.

Fizzy yellow lager is good.

All clone recipes are rubbish.

Excellent list, Charles.  I totally agree that experience is way better than Google, and so on down the list, with one exception:

While I do think a lot of clone recipes are rubbish because they are poorly put together, researched, etc., I do find that there is great benefit in learning brewing skills if one attempts to clone a commercial beer and then brews several more times with tweaks until he/she gets it just right.  I find that cloning a beer is indeed possible, with sufficient artistic knowledge and skill.  Is it easier just to buy the stuff?  Well yes of course, unless the beer isn't being made or sold anymore, such as Pete's Wicked Ale or whatever.  Even if it's not identical, at least you can get a recipe somewhere close if you crave it.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on December 31, 2016, 01:00:53 PM
I don't like 95 percent of the homebrews I taste. And I can't lie. So I either say it as it is or I stammer something meaningless.

Wow, that's pretty bad.  So, either you have terrible brewer friends, or you're super picky, or a super-taster.  Of these, I find that I am super picky in some regards (e.g., Marzen) but not others, such that I can enjoy more things.  It might also be helpful that I am apparently either a sub-average taster or a so-called "non-taster".  As such, I think a lot of my homebrewer friends make really fantastic beers, with IT and the whole she-bang.  My "friends" say "give it to Mikey, he likes it, hey Mikey", referring to me as the Mikey.  On the other hand, I am hyper-critical of my own beers.  I think I truly kind of suck at brewing.  But it doesn't keep me from trying!  Except for 2-3 years a while back when I'd brewed a string of rotten beers, I did get fed up for a while.  But anyway.............
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: natebrews on December 31, 2016, 01:04:34 PM
..., most beers should be under 5℅ alcohol.


I couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on December 31, 2016, 01:13:39 PM
Entering competitions is a waste of time and money. Everyone complains that the feedback is inconsistent and incomplete at best and flat out no good at worse so the "I enter for the feedback" argument doesn't fly.
The rest of competitions seems to be slavishly adhering to style and gaming the system. Then it's just luck to see if those godawful pretentious beer judges like your beer better than others today. I am not paying to send them my hard earned home brew thank you very much!

While I do think it is still advantageous to become a judge for numerous reasons I won't mention here, I do also totally agree with your statements above, and I have been fairly vocal about this, much to the chagrin of many Master judges.  And it's a damned shame, because at the same time, I also truly believe that quality wasn't always so bad.  Only in the past 6-7 years has quality of our judges really tanked.  Feedback from comps was way more beneficial in the early 2000s.  The average judge today I think hasn't much clue what they are really doing, and this goes mostly for the Recognized and Certified judges, with a few Nationals as well unfortunately.  Many of the Nationals and Masters I think still know their stuff, but fewer of the Certifieds, and the Recognizeds? good luck.  Why is this happening?  There is bloat involved -- too many judges and WAY too many "styles" for them to learn and try to interpret, many of which they've probably never tasted before.  That I feel is the biggie -- bloat of all kinds.  Plus I wonder if the online exam for newbies is either too easy or if people are cheating while taking it, I don't know which, probably some of both, and I've never taken the electronic exam.  I'm one of the "legacy" guys from about 2006/2007 who basically had to take the Master level essay exam just to get in as Recognized.  Ah, yes, those were the days.... :)  So, yeah, I don't enter comps anymore either, or extremely rarely, as I find them so very much crapshooty.  I find that I judge my own beers WAY better all by myself in most instances, with minimal bias up or down (actually it goes both directions for me).
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on December 31, 2016, 01:29:17 PM
My unpopular view of competitions is that they are a fun fund raiser for brewing clubs.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: tesgüino on December 31, 2016, 01:49:18 PM
My unpopular view of competitions is that they are a fun fund raiser for brewing clubs.
I think "fun" is the key word here.

If you're entering for ribbons or feedback, it can be a crap-shoot.

If you're entering for a fun evening of hanging with homebrewers and cheering on your club, you'll never be disappointed.

Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: riceral on December 31, 2016, 02:17:18 PM
..., most beers should be under 5℅ alcohol.


I couldn't agree more.

Along the same lines, Imperial almost everything.

And bourbon barrel yada-yada-yada

Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on December 31, 2016, 02:27:22 PM
My unpopular view of competitions is that they are a fun fund raiser for brewing clubs.
I think "fun" is the key word here.

If you're entering for ribbons or feedback, it can be a crap-shoot.

If you're entering for a fun evening of hanging with homebrewers and cheering on your club, you'll never be disappointed.
Yup. Folks need to learn how to interpret feedback. I'm sure Palmer took more than 6 minutes to write How To Brew. You can't expect judges to teach you how to brew in 6 minutes. Having said that, judges also need to understand that the purpose of a competition is to raise funds for the host club. Writing snarky hurtful feedback not only hurts the brewer but the fund raiser as well because they probably won't be back, and bad word travels fast. You're hurting the BJCP too. So don't do it please.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 31, 2016, 03:24:06 PM
Disclaimer - i know there are great judges out there, many on this site. BUT, I'll pile on the comps. I've gone through phases for 2+ decades where I'll enter comps for a while, get sick of it and stop for a couple years, rinse, repeat. So along the way I've gotten the message that it's a crapshoot, with things like palate fatigue, level of experience/knowledge of the judge, and personal preference being variables that all come into play. But in the last year or two the feedback has gotten overall just plain awful. Admittedly, I don't enter comps for feedback - I enter beers I feel strongly about to see if they're good enough to medal. We've all entered different comps with the same beer and gotten wildly different scores and feedback, but the feedback and scoring seems more extreme and random lately, with average feedback being non existant to ill-informed . It's hard to point to much other than average judge knowledge and experience. I think I'm entering a no comp phase for awhile, where I get to drink more of my beer and spend less $ on shipping. I'm my own biggest critic and can critique my beers pretty effectively anyway. 
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: braufessor on December 31, 2016, 03:28:37 PM
I love brewing/drinking both "West Coast" and "New England" type IPA's.

I think the two biggest problems with homebrew that I taste are  also the two simplest things to fix - Sanitation and Water issues (usually hardness and/or chlorine).

I find it odd, that home brewing seems to be one of the few (only) hobbies where "I don't want to spend any money" and "I don't want to take the time to do it" are popular opinions.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: yso191 on December 31, 2016, 04:07:26 PM
..., most beers should be under 5℅ alcohol.


I couldn't agree more.

I guess I finally found something that is an unpopular brewing opinion that I hold.  While I would agree if the point is alcohol, but those are rare I think.  The issue is flavor.  If you want to pack more flavor into a beer it requires more ingredients.  To maintain balance malt will be increased... which can't help but lead to higher alcohol.  It is really all about what one wants in a beer.  What I want is different than what you want.

I can and do appreciate a well made pilsner, etcetera, but right now the beer that I can't wait for has just been announced at Bale Breaker Brewing here in Yakima.  They just started brewing their seasonal Mt. St. Humulus Imperial IPA.  Nectar of the gods I tell you.  Nirvana in a glass.

I love jazz, but often what I hanker for is some serious kick-*** Classic Rock... which is sometimes referred to as Bourbon Barrel Yada Yada.  ;)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on December 31, 2016, 04:19:06 PM
Cool topic.
I don't know if my unpopular opinion aligns with the judging opinions already voiced, but I think BJCP and cicerone, etc. is a bunch of sh*t. Just because you took a test and have BJCP certified by your name doesn't mean you know and can taste beer. And, drinking beer is about enjoyment, trying to nitpick and find flaws instead of drinking for enjoyment and socializing, is for the birds. Also, on the cicerone part, "knowing" how and what foods to pair beer with is also for the birds. Just drink, eat, and enjoy. Eff all that noise.

Another unpopular opinion? IPAs. American craft beer has become synonymous with IPA and HOPS HOPS HOPS. Seriously, there's more to beer than hops, get over it America! Cripes! I like a nice pale ale or IPA here and there, but when I go out and the taps are 75% hopped up beers, I'm annoyed as hell. American craft beer drinker's palates have been desensitized to the point where everything has to be MOAR MOAR MOAR.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: kmccaf on December 31, 2016, 04:33:42 PM
Not to pile on in regards to IPAs, but I like bitter beer. Burton ales really hit the spot for me here. None of this 100 ibus but somehow still tastes like a sweet pine tree commercial stuff.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: yso191 on December 31, 2016, 04:37:25 PM
What I've noticed here is that we have taken a sweeping turn from brewing (process/equipment/etc.) to beer preferences.

I like 'X', you like 'Y'.  You don't have to like Miracle Whip on your fried potatoes, just don't aske me to stop eating them that way.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: EnkAMania on December 31, 2016, 04:39:25 PM
I love my pumpkin beer which is like pumpkin pie in a glass.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: homoeccentricus on December 31, 2016, 05:02:21 PM
I love my pumpkin beer which is like pumpkin pie in a glass.
Over the line!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on December 31, 2016, 05:29:14 PM
Those who question the value of BJCP or Cicerone certification should get certified then re-examine their opinions.  That should be unpopular in this thread!  :)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on December 31, 2016, 05:44:14 PM
Those who question the value of BJCP or Cicerone certification should get certified then re-examine their opinions.  That should be unpopular in this thread!  :)
Awesome. And unpopular lol

I attribute some of the "nit pick" blowback to some judging styles. One of the best bits of encouragement I got regarding judging is to start with a view point of looking for what is GOOD about the beer. We're too focused on finding faults it seems. Finding fault is easy. I prefer, and I think many entrants would appreciate, here's 3 nice things about the beer, and here's a couple things that could be improved. That and "there were better beers in the flight" is kinder than "you suck as a brewer".
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on December 31, 2016, 06:18:08 PM
Those who question the value of BJCP or Cicerone certification should get certified then re-examine their opinions.  That should be unpopular in this thread!  :)
Awesome. And unpopular lol

I attribute some of the "nit pick" blowback to some judging styles. One of the best bits of encouragement I got regarding judging is to start with a view point of looking for what is GOOD about the beer. We're too focused on finding faults it seems. Finding fault is easy. I prefer, and I think many entrants would appreciate, here's 3 nice things about the beer, and here's a couple things that could be improved. That and "there were better beers in the flight" is kinder than "you suck as a brewer".

Which is exactly what a good judge does.  And in my experience, I've encountered more good judges than poor ones.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: kgs on December 31, 2016, 06:49:59 PM
My opinion is that the default batch size of 5 gallons is an impediment to bringing new people into the hobby and keeping them brewing. While there are small-batch entry-level kits and plenty of ways to start small and keep going that way, the 5-gallon batch is the implicit default batch size, and it drives how long a typical brew day is, the average cost of a homebrew session, and what kind of equipment is needed to manage the process, from extraction to carbonation. It also assumes that there are points in the process where the homebrewer can successfully lift very large quantities of liquid and/or wet grain or acquire the equipment to do so.

The hobby seems much more open to smaller batch brewing than when I started brewing in early 2009, but there's still that 5-gallon mindset. It's as if the bakers on that British baking show had to not just bake really great cake, but bake a cake the size of a small shed.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on December 31, 2016, 06:50:12 PM
Denny, I don't question the value of BJCP or the qualifications/knowledge of most judges whatsoever. There are some great judges out there who have given me excellent, spot on feedback and scores higher than I thought I deserved at times. But I feel the rise of the hobby and number of comps has grown quicker than the depth of judge quality at many comps. Probably inevitable. Maybe my last year or two of comps has been a blip and not indicative of everywhere, but my scoresheets lately have been puzzling at best. I totally get that it's a crap shoot though.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: JJeffers09 on December 31, 2016, 06:53:46 PM
I like decoction mashing for wheat/rye/Pilsner malts.

I like the BJCP guidelines.

I think bitter pale Barleywines are better than IIPAs.

There is no negative in having fresh 'cloudy' beer.

2V BIAB makes better beer than traditional 3V all grain set ups.

Expensive setups doesn't make your beer better.

I think mead tastes better than beer or wine.

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk

Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on December 31, 2016, 06:58:59 PM
My opinion is that the default batch size of 5 gallons is an impediment to bringing new people into the hobby and keeping them brewing. While there are small-batch entry-level kits and plenty of ways to start small and keep going that way, the 5-gallon batch is the implicit default batch size, and it drives how long a typical brew day is, the average cost of a homebrew session, and what kind of equipment is needed to manage the process, from extraction to carbonation. It also assumes that there are points in the process where the homebrewer can successfully lift very large quantities of liquid and/or wet grain or acquire the equipment to do so.

The hobby seems much more open to smaller batch brewing than when I started brewing in early 2009, but there's still that 5-gallon mindset. It's as if the bakers on that British baking show had to not just bake really great cake, but bake a cake the size of a small shed.

You're gonna love our new book!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on December 31, 2016, 07:03:29 PM
I should've added to my earlier post: Fly sparging is a waste of time.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: kgs on December 31, 2016, 07:05:55 PM
My opinion is that the default batch size of 5 gallons is an impediment to bringing new people into the hobby and keeping them brewing. While there are small-batch entry-level kits and plenty of ways to start small and keep going that way, the 5-gallon batch is the implicit default batch size, and it drives how long a typical brew day is, the average cost of a homebrew session, and what kind of equipment is needed to manage the process, from extraction to carbonation. It also assumes that there are points in the process where the homebrewer can successfully lift very large quantities of liquid and/or wet grain or acquire the equipment to do so.

The hobby seems much more open to smaller batch brewing than when I started brewing in early 2009, but there's still that 5-gallon mindset. It's as if the bakers on that British baking show had to not just bake really great cake, but bake a cake the size of a small shed.

You're gonna love our new book!

It sounds like it's either on smaller/more accessible brewing, or baking really large cakes :-)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on December 31, 2016, 07:12:29 PM
You're gonna love our new book!

It sounds like it's either on smaller/more accessible brewing, or baking really large cakes :-)

One of those is correct...
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: mainebrewer on December 31, 2016, 09:02:05 PM
I am NOT a fan of fruit, spices, coffee, chocolate, etc. (including, now, vegetables--yuck) in my beer. If I want to taste grapefruit, I will eat a grapefruit, but please don't put it in my beer. It's not that I'm a grouchy old man clinging to a "back in my day" mentality, nor am I a Reinheitsgebot fanatic. And I keep an open mind when tasting beer. But I have never found a beer's flavor to be enhanced by adding this stuff to it. It just tastes really gross to me. And pumpkin beer? No thanks.

+100
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: chinaski on December 31, 2016, 09:11:29 PM
Unpopular opinions, eh?  I'm hip...


I don't think rye tastes spicy, not in the slightest.  It's bready and a bit earthy, but no spice.  Any spice is associated with caraway or choice of spicy hops.

Session IPA, Black IPA, Brown IPA, and Purple IPA are all terms that need not exist.

Homegrown hops are better for bittering than for flavor or aroma.  Learn what your average alpha acid is through trial and error, like in the old days before the term "alpha acid" existed.   :o

You don't need to rehydrate your dry yeast.  It's one of the big advantages of dry.  I know Denny agrees, but many do not, that's why I include this as an "unpopular" opinion.

Glass fermenters are better than plastic buckets.  There, I said it, again.  Glass is dangerous, yes.  Do be very careful with your big heavy glass carboys.  Fortunately, stainless would also be fine.


I agree with these, with the exception of the homegrown hop being better for bittering.  I've gone completely homegrown for my brewing hops and have worked out approximate %AA for the dozen varieties I grow so I can plug them into my old-school recipe spreadsheet.  Certain varieties provide incredible aroma and flavor where I grow them and the way I process them.

It took a club competition on rye beers to show me what rye tastes like- the winning entry had something like 65% rye in it.  Not for me.

Keep my glass carboys in milk crates and I'm all set.

Good topic!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: gman23 on December 31, 2016, 09:23:36 PM
I like to listen to extremely complex progressive rock/metal when I brew. It's a method to make the final beer undeniably better.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: santoch on December 31, 2016, 11:14:03 PM
Why is this happening?  There is bloat involved -- too many judges and WAY too many "styles" for them to learn and try to interpret, many of which they've probably never tasted before.  That I feel is the biggie -- bloat of all kinds.  Plus I wonder if the online exam for newbies is either too easy or if people are cheating while taking it, I don't know which, probably some of both, and I've never taken the electronic exam.  I'm one of the "legacy" guys from about 2006/2007 who basically had to take the Master level essay exam just to get in as Recognized.

I won't comment about the level of cheating.  It's impossible to prove, though I have my suspicions.  But, I think that you are right in that the 3 phase exam has made it much easier to become certified.  I'm as guilty as everyone.  When I taught the class for the "legacy" exam, folks either learned all of the material or they didn't pass the exam. 

In my experience, it takes less effort to score a passing grade in a multiple choice type exam than one that is essay based.  We concentrated more on the tasting skills for the new exam, because as long as they pass the online, that's "good enough".

So we have folks that scrape by on the online exam, and then write 6 cohesive-enough score sheets to pass.  But, they never retained the material that they "learned" to pass the online. As time goes on, quality suffers.

With respect to snarky comments on score sheets, that's just unacceptable.  Please report those sheets to the competition organizers.
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: brulosopher on December 31, 2016, 11:24:02 PM
I don't dig beers over 10% alcohol. I have a few favorites that happen to exceed that but as a general rule I prefer less than 9% with 10% as a max.

I just can't see a legitimate reason to have beers that are 12% and above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Came to say pretty much this. I just don't do big beers, I'd rather 5 pints of an easy drinking Pilsner or Pale Ale than 2 of a 9% something or other.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Phil_M on January 01, 2017, 01:26:36 AM
I'm in agreement that the BJCP and Cicerone groups leave most to be desired. However, there is a need for such groups, and I'm sure things could be worse.

My gripe with the BJCP, in addition to the issues others have stated regarding competitions, is the amount of data the require you to learn. I have zero interest in some styles: I don't buy, drink, or brew them. Why make everyone learn all the styles? A jack of all trades is a master of none. Let folks study styles they're passionate about in great depth, and then judge those styles. I'd bet the feedback would be more meaningful, but then smaller comps would have issues hosting all categories.

I'd started studying some BJCP materials, seeing if I'd want to try and take the test...the answer is no. Just like with college, just because I don't have the piece of paper doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. (though I don't profess as wide a range of knowledge of styles, mind you.)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 01, 2017, 01:33:46 AM
I like to listen to extremely complex progressive rock/metal when I brew. It's a method to make the final beer undeniably better.

Dream Theater?  Steve Hackett?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Kutaka on January 01, 2017, 02:00:23 AM
If arguing was allowed and I cared to argue about beer, I could easily instigate a plethora of verbal brawls and subsequent smack downs in this thread.  Many people are very wrong about beer and they are feeling artificially confident about expressing their clearly false opinions because they have been granted a safe space to speak their opinions without fear of rebuttal.

Happy New Year!

     
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: yso191 on January 01, 2017, 02:21:30 AM
My gripe with the BJCP, in addition to the issues others have stated regarding competitions, is the amount of data the require you to learn. I have zero interest in some styles: I don't buy, drink, or brew them. Why make everyone learn all the styles? A jack of all trades is a master of none. Let folks study styles they're passionate about in great depth, and then judge those styles. I'd bet the feedback would be more meaningful, but then smaller comps would have issues hosting all categories.

I think this is an excellent idea, especially at the "Recognized" level.  General brewing/problem knowledge and 3 specific categories.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 01, 2017, 03:12:02 AM
I like to listen to extremely complex progressive rock/metal when I brew. It's a method to make the final beer undeniably better.

Dream Theater?  Steve Hackett?
Love Dream Theater.  Also some Yes, Rush, Primus, King Crimson and Umphrey's McGee (maybe more jam band but they have some prog in there).
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 01, 2017, 03:15:53 AM
I don't dig beers over 10% alcohol. I have a few favorites that happen to exceed that but as a general rule I prefer less than 9% with 10% as a max.

I just can't see a legitimate reason to have beers that are 12% and above.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Came to say pretty much this. I just don't do big beers, I'd rather 5 pints of an easy drinking Pilsner or Pale Ale than 2 of a 9% something or other.

+2.  I wonder if big beers are more popular with newer or younger beer drinkers.  IMO there is a time for a big beer like in the dead of winter, after dinner, sharing with friends.  I'd much rather have a few pints of bitter or a liter of helles.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 01, 2017, 03:28:57 AM
Re: BJCP stuff... there are enough questions and time limit on the online exam that having the answers in front of you, if you knew nothing, would be difficult to cheat and pass. I could see someone getting a buddy to take it for them, or sit next to them and give the answer. That doesn't work come tasting exam.

Here's what I think. I've met more good judges than bad. But no one vents about good ones. And one really bad one will get a lot of air time.

I wish they'd kick around this idea. Think of it as a business selling a product. In this case the product is good score sheets. But what if the product was beer glasses? If every case came with 10% broken, educating your customers to expect 10% breakage is not going to work in the long run.

If the BJCP has a plan of existing for years and years, they probably have to come up with a plan.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 01, 2017, 03:38:59 AM
My gripe with the BJCP, in addition to the issues others have stated regarding competitions, is the amount of data the require you to learn. I have zero interest in some styles: I don't buy, drink, or brew them. Why make everyone learn all the styles? A jack of all trades is a master of none. Let folks study styles they're passionate about in great depth, and then judge those styles. I'd bet the feedback would be more meaningful, but then smaller comps would have issues hosting all categories.

I think this is an excellent idea, especially at the "Recognized" level.  General brewing/problem knowledge and 3 specific categories.
I'd be all for a competency test for each style.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 01, 2017, 04:02:27 AM
If arguing was allowed and I cared to argue about beer, I could easily instigate a plethora of verbal brawls and subsequent smack downs in this thread.  Many people are very wrong about beer and they are feeling artificially confident about expressing their clearly false opinions because they have been granted a safe space to speak their opinions without fear of rebuttal.

"very wrong"... says who?  Taste is subjective, there is no right or wrong.

"artificially confident"... there might be some of this.

"clearly false opinions"... no such thing.  An opinion is an opinion, and equates neither to a fact nor a falsehood.

I do think arguing should be allowed, as long as it doesn't become mega-annoying or nasty.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Philbrew on January 01, 2017, 04:25:08 AM
My opinion is that the default batch size of 5 gallons is an impediment to bringing new people into the hobby and keeping them brewing. While there are small-batch entry-level kits and plenty of ways to start small and keep going that way, the 5-gallon batch is the implicit default batch size, and it drives how long a typical brew day is, the average cost of a homebrew session, and what kind of equipment is needed to manage the process, from extraction to carbonation. It also assumes that there are points in the process where the homebrewer can successfully lift very large quantities of liquid and/or wet grain or acquire the equipment to do so.

The hobby seems much more open to smaller batch brewing than when I started brewing in early 2009, but there's still that 5-gallon mindset. It's as if the bakers on that British baking show had to not just bake really great cake, but bake a cake the size of a small shed.
Yes, and having to drink up 5 gallons of beer before you can try your next batch is also an impediment.

I've invested $$ and time in my 5-6 gallon brew system, but if I had (could) to do it over I would go 2-1/2 gallon...for newbies reading this.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 01, 2017, 04:48:05 AM
If arguing was allowed and I cared to argue about beer, I could easily instigate a plethora of verbal brawls and subsequent smack downs in this thread.  Many people are very wrong about beer and they are feeling artificially confident about expressing their clearly false opinions because they have been granted a safe space to speak their opinions without fear of rebuttal.

Happy New Year!

     


I'm fairly sure nobody said you can't express your thoughts on this forum. Nobody is granted special permission here in " expressing their clearly false opinions because they have been granted a safe space to speak their opinions without fear of rebuttal." That's just silly because:   A/ no one has been granted a 'safe space' ( by whom?) to say things without rebuttal, and    B/ there's been a BUTTLOAD of rebuttal against numerous threads lately if you hadn't noticed. All we DO ask is to disagree in a civil way and make it constructive and not nasty and personal. Seems fair to me.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dzlater on January 01, 2017, 01:44:20 PM
My clearly unpopular opinion is that how well your grain is milled makes little difference. I shop at several different shops that and also have a mill of my own. There is an obvious difference in the crush depending which mill I use, but my preboil gravity is always close enough for homebrew. Never get a stuck sparge.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: braufessor on January 01, 2017, 02:15:03 PM
In regard to "cheating" on the on line exam..... Are people talking about having someone else take it for another person, or having guidelines out to look at during the exam?  The reason I ask is because almost every source of "Preparing for the BJCP Exam" TELLS you to have the BJCP guidelines handy to reference during the exam.  I remember seeing that multiple places when I was researching and getting ready to take the exam a couple years ago.... For instance:
This recent thread in this Forum: https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=27098.0
Takes you to this page: https://www.beersyndicate.com/app/Tutorial/Details/52

And one sections suggests that test takers do the following.... (I saw this similar recommendation over and over, in links shared in this forum and on the pages of large, respect home-brew clubs).  So...... if this is the standard recommendation for taking the on line exam - what exactly constitutes cheating vs. "Being prepared and using your resources?"

2. Choose your Resources Carefully

For those of you wondering about the BJCP’s position concerning the use of various resources during the online Entrance Exam, here’s a quick note from the BJCP on the subject:

“This exam is implicitly open-book, which means that it is permissible to use the 2015 BJCP Beer Style Guidelines or other references as a sanity check or to resolve differences or similarities between styles.  However, this does not compensate for lack of knowledge since it will be difficult to complete the exam if significant time is spent accessing and reading the references.”

The BJCP is certainly right about one thing: you will not have time to look up the correct answer for every question on the exam (unless you’re some sort of beer-obsessed supercomputer).  And frantically scrambling through a cluttered up computer screen with a dozen different webpages that may or may not be relevant will only shave more time off an exam where every second counts.

With that in mind, if we could only choose three resources for taking the BJCP, it would be these:

A) The Beer Style Compare-O-Matic (Based on 2015 BJCP Style Guidelines)
B) The 2015 BJCP Study Guide
C) A second computer monitor

When it comes to the BJCP online Entrance Exam, the resources above are more useful than any book you could have, and (at the risk of offending Larry Page and Sergey Brin) are even more useful than Google.

So let’s talk briefly about why those things are the most useful.

The Beer Style Compare-O-Matic

Keep in mind that about 50-60% (or more) of the questions on the online exam deal with information found on the 2105 BJCP Style Guidelines, often times requiring you to accurately identify very specific details about two different beer styles.  The Compare-O-Matic allows you to quickly isolate any two (or three) of the 2015 BJCP beer styles for immediate comparison, with key terms highlighted for easy use.  Compare that to going back and forth on the 93 page BJCP Style Guidelines document to try to identify minor details about two different beer styles under time pressure.

For example, consider the following question which is similar to those you will find on the actual BJCP Entrance Exam:

True or False:

The color of an IPA ranges from medium gold to light reddish amber, while an American Pale Ale ranges from pale golden to light amber.

Go take a few minutes and check your answer using the 2015 BJCP Style Guidelines.  We’ll wait.

Or, find the answer in a matter of seconds using the Beer Stytle Compare-O-Matic. [Screen shot below.]

 The Compare-O-Matic is seriously effective and ridiculously easy to use.  Oh yeah, and it’s free.

Of course, it’s important that you spend some time practicing using the Compare-O-Matic to become comfortable with quickly finding and comparing beer styles.  To that end, we’ve developed a free 30 question BJCP Entrance Exam Mock Practice Test so that can you can get a feel for what the actual BJCP Entrance Exam is like and also get a chance to apply some of the things we cover in this tutorial especially playing around with the Compare-O-Matic to see why it’s so incredibly useful.

The 2015 BJCP Study Guide: About 30-40% of the Entrance Exam deals with information found on the BJCP Study Guide, so naturally it makes sense to have that document up for a quick reference.  We can’t overemphasis that it is very important that you have prepared by carefully reading the entire study guide prior to taking the online exam so that you only need to double check things that you’re uncertain about.

The two major areas to focus on in the study guide are (1) information from the BJCP Judging Procedures Manual or all of the true-false questions beginning on page 18 of the BJCP Study Guide, and (2) the section on troubleshooting beer flaws beginning on page 59 of the Study Guide.  But again, it is absolutely in your best interests to read the ENTIRE study guide and have a fairly good understanding and recollection of that material prior to taking the exam.

A Second Computer Monitor: Tiny smart phone screens are great for portability, straining your eyes and fooling around on Instagram, but not so good for taking an intense one hour exam that practically demands you have multiple webpages up at once.  Two computer monitors allows you to have the exam up on one monitor and your references up on the other.  Constantly toggling between screens on one single monitor only adds more stress to an already stressful exam, so if possible, strongly consider using two monitors when taking the exam.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 01, 2017, 02:19:17 PM
If arguing was allowed and I cared to argue about beer, I could easily instigate a plethora of verbal brawls and subsequent smack downs in this thread.  Many people are very wrong about beer and they are feeling artificially confident about expressing their clearly false opinions because they have been granted a safe space to speak their opinions without fear of rebuttal.

Happy New Year!

     


I'm fairly sure nobody said you can't express your thoughts on this forum. Nobody is granted special permission here in " expressing their clearly false opinions because they have been granted a safe space to speak their opinions without fear of rebuttal." That's just silly because:   A/ no one has been granted a 'safe space' ( by whom?) to say things without rebuttal, and    B/ there's been a BUTTLOAD of rebuttal against numerous threads lately if you hadn't noticed. All we DO ask is to disagree in a civil way and make it constructive and not nasty and personal. Seems fair to me.
I think Kutaka was referring to the original post in this thread which asked for no arguing. That being said, if they read the thread they would see there has been plenty of rebuttal to people's opinion and, ironically, their clearly false opinion has been subject to rebuttal. So Kutaka, feel free to share which opinions are "clearly false".
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 01, 2017, 03:23:51 PM
I brew lodo in Belgium. That's sufficient to be labeled a lunatic.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 01, 2017, 03:45:08 PM
I'm in agreement that the BJCP and Cicerone groups leave most to be desired. However, there is a need for such groups, and I'm sure things could be worse.

My gripe with the BJCP, in addition to the issues others have stated regarding competitions, is the amount of data the require you to learn. I have zero interest in some styles: I don't buy, drink, or brew them. Why make everyone learn all the styles? A jack of all trades is a master of none. Let folks study styles they're passionate about in great depth, and then judge those styles. I'd bet the feedback would be more meaningful, but then smaller comps would have issues hosting all categories.

I'd started studying some BJCP materials, seeing if I'd want to try and take the test...the answer is no. Just like with college, just because I don't have the piece of paper doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. (though I don't profess as wide a range of knowledge of styles, mind you.)
I need to know those other styles. Often I have entries in the style I like to drink and brew, so I can't judge the styles I know and like the best. So there is a reason to know all of the styles.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: santoch on January 01, 2017, 05:24:50 PM
The BJCP knew when it created the online exam that some folks would treat it as open book.  The idea was that if the time constraints are tight enough, searching for the answers would still take longer than allotted time would allow, so the best strategy is to actually learn the material.  Ok, the Compare-O-Matic makes that concept moot.  Congratulations!  You passed a test by looking at the answers! Here's your participation trophy! Enjoy!

The result is still the same point that people have been griping about.  The old exam required people to know the styles, ingredients, and troubleshooting topics by heart. That doesn't seem to hold in every case now.

As far as picking and choosing which styles you want to learn and become certified in, it sounds nice on the surface, but the logistics don't scale.  For example, how many different beers would an exam administrator need to serve so that he could satisfy all of the individual cases of "I'm studying this style but not that style"?

Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: chinaski on January 01, 2017, 08:32:55 PM
I'm in agreement that the BJCP and Cicerone groups leave most to be desired. However, there is a need for such groups, and I'm sure things could be worse.

My gripe with the BJCP, in addition to the issues others have stated regarding competitions, is the amount of data the require you to learn. I have zero interest in some styles: I don't buy, drink, or brew them. Why make everyone learn all the styles? A jack of all trades is a master of none. Let folks study styles they're passionate about in great depth, and then judge those styles. I'd bet the feedback would be more meaningful, but then smaller comps would have issues hosting all categories.

I'd started studying some BJCP materials, seeing if I'd want to try and take the test...the answer is no. Just like with college, just because I don't have the piece of paper doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. (though I don't profess as wide a range of knowledge of styles, mind you.)
I need to know those other styles. Often I have entries in the style I like to drink and brew, so I can't judge the styles I know and like the best. So there is a reason to know all of the styles.
I also think it is very important to recognize that the BJCP is a volunteer-based organization.  If there is something that you do not like about how it is operating, then you are welcome to get involved and do your best to change it.  Everyone is doing it for free.

I could not imagine trying to run a competition using judges that couldn't do whatever categories were needed to be judged.  I think it's hard enough to get enough certified judges to volunteer for a large competition, how would you plan a competition not know what categories you might later have qualified folks to judge?  It just isn't practical.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: BrewBama on January 01, 2017, 09:39:00 PM
If arguing was allowed and I cared to argue about beer, I could easily instigate a plethora of verbal brawls and subsequent smack downs in this thread.  Many people are very wrong about beer and they are feeling artificially confident about expressing their clearly false opinions because they have been granted a safe space to speak their opinions without fear of rebuttal.

Happy New Year!

     


...we have a winner!


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: curtdogg on January 01, 2017, 11:01:50 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 01, 2017, 11:52:54 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.
I doubt that, I think they will be growing. I just had some Treehouse the other day and it's special stuff. I think people's palates are evolving to where they want boatloads of hops aroma/flavor without the tongue scaping bitterness of many American IPA's and that's what these beers deliver.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: curtdogg on January 02, 2017, 12:04:19 AM
When I say Belgian, I mean Trappist. And Duvel. Plus St. Bernardus. I don't dig regional Belgian beers, or Lambic, etc.

I think there needs to be a clear dividing line. I'm trying to get better about prefacing with Trappist or Monastic.


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What do you think of Goliath?
Brasserie des geańts.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 02, 2017, 12:46:21 AM
When I say Belgian, I mean Trappist. And Duvel. Plus St. Bernardus. I don't dig regional Belgian beers, or Lambic, etc.

I think there needs to be a clear dividing line. I'm trying to get better about prefacing with Trappist or Monastic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What do you think of Goliath?
Brasserie des geańts.

I've never had it but it says it's all malt and Amber colored so I doubt I'd be interested.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 02, 2017, 02:23:10 AM
When I say Belgian, I mean Trappist. And Duvel. Plus St. Bernardus. I don't dig regional Belgian beers, or Lambic, etc.

I think there needs to be a clear dividing line. I'm trying to get better about prefacing with Trappist or Monastic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What do you think of Goliath?
Brasserie des geańts.

I've never had it but it says it's all malt and Amber colored so I doubt I'd be interested.
I make a great Belgian Pale Ale.  All malt and amber colored too.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 02, 2017, 02:24:10 AM
When I say Belgian, I mean Trappist. And Duvel. Plus St. Bernardus. I don't dig regional Belgian beers, or Lambic, etc.

I think there needs to be a clear dividing line. I'm trying to get better about prefacing with Trappist or Monastic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What do you think of Goliath?
Brasserie des geańts.

I've never had it but it says it's all malt and Amber colored so I doubt I'd be interested.
I make a great Belgian Pale Ale.  All malt and amber colored too.

I meant Tripel. I don't want an amber colored, 9%, all malt Tripel. I don't think I'd like the way the would taste.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 02, 2017, 02:26:36 AM
Not sure how unpopular these opinions are but here's an attempt:

1.  Extract beer can be as good and better than all-grain beer.

2.  Session IPA is really APA.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: curtdogg on January 02, 2017, 03:07:29 AM
When I say Belgian, I mean Trappist. And Duvel. Plus St. Bernardus. I don't dig regional Belgian beers, or Lambic, etc.

I think there needs to be a clear dividing line. I'm trying to get better about prefacing with Trappist or Monastic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What do you think of Goliath?
Brasserie des geańts.

I've never had it but it says it's all malt and Amber colored so I doubt I'd be interested.
I make a great Belgian Pale Ale.  All malt and amber colored too.

I meant Tripel. I don't want an amber colored, 9%, all malt Tripel. I don't think I'd like the way the would taste.
I would call it more golden, but it tastes delious.(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170102/56e59ddb1520d04898b4f71cf98c4040.jpg)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: coolman26 on January 02, 2017, 04:12:57 AM
My opinion is that the default batch size of 5 gallons is an impediment to bringing new people into the hobby and keeping them brewing. While there are small-batch entry-level kits and plenty of ways to start small and keep going that way, the 5-gallon batch is the implicit default batch size, and it drives how long a typical brew day is, the average cost of a homebrew session, and what kind of equipment is needed to manage the process, from extraction to carbonation. It also assumes that there are points in the process where the homebrewer can successfully lift very large quantities of liquid and/or wet grain or acquire the equipment to do so.

The hobby seems much more open to smaller batch brewing than when I started brewing in early 2009, but there's still that 5-gallon mindset. It's as if the bakers on that British baking show had to not just bake really great cake, but bake a cake the size of a small shed.
Yes, and having to drink up 5 gallons of beer before you can try your next batch is also an impediment.

I've invested $$ and time in my 5-6 gallon brew system, but if I had (could) to do it over I would go 2-1/2 gallon...for newbies reading this.
Makes me think my 15-20 gallon batches may be excessive........NOT!


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Philbrew on January 02, 2017, 04:59:31 AM
My opinion is that the default batch size of 5 gallons is an impediment to bringing new people into the hobby and keeping them brewing. While there are small-batch entry-level kits and plenty of ways to start small and keep going that way, the 5-gallon batch is the implicit default batch size, and it drives how long a typical brew day is, the average cost of a homebrew session, and what kind of equipment is needed to manage the process, from extraction to carbonation. It also assumes that there are points in the process where the homebrewer can successfully lift very large quantities of liquid and/or wet grain or acquire the equipment to do so.

The hobby seems much more open to smaller batch brewing than when I started brewing in early 2009, but there's still that 5-gallon mindset. It's as if the bakers on that British baking show had to not just bake really great cake, but bake a cake the size of a small shed.
Yes, and having to drink up 5 gallons of beer before you can try your next batch is also an impediment.

I've invested $$ and time in my 5-6 gallon brew system, but if I had (could) to do it over I would go 2-1/2 gallon...for newbies reading this.
Makes me think my 15-20 gallon batches may be excessive........NOT!


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Your 15-20 gallon batches are very much NOT excessive if you've got beer drinking, thirsty friends and family that can consume it.  I, sadly, do not.  Thrrefore I muusht drinskt alll tshat I cann to kerp my hooby going.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: csaunders on January 02, 2017, 12:11:21 PM
My opinion is that the default batch size of 5 gallons is an impediment to bringing new people into the hobby and keeping them brewing. While there are small-batch entry-level kits and plenty of ways to start small and keep going that way, the 5-gallon batch is the implicit default batch size, and it drives how long a typical brew day is, the average cost of a homebrew session, and what kind of equipment is needed to manage the process, from extraction to carbonation. It also assumes that there are points in the process where the homebrewer can successfully lift very large quantities of liquid and/or wet grain or acquire the equipment to do so.

The hobby seems much more open to smaller batch brewing than when I started brewing in early 2009, but there's still that 5-gallon mindset. It's as if the bakers on that British baking show had to not just bake really great cake, but bake a cake the size of a small shed.
Yes, and having to drink up 5 gallons of beer before you can try your next batch is also an impediment.

I've invested $$ and time in my 5-6 gallon brew system, but if I had (could) to do it over I would go 2-1/2 gallon...for newbies reading this.

This makes me think of an opinion that seems pretty unpopular — if you are done with the beer, it's OK to dump it. It's better to put another beer on tap, than sit with beer you don't want to drink.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: theoman on January 02, 2017, 12:34:30 PM
You can make excellent beer without stressing about your water profile, HSA, etc... Quit making things so complicated (unless that's what you're into).

I live in Belgium and very rarely drink commercial Belgian beer (I mostly drink my own beer, which is technically always Belgian, but rarely "Belgian style").

Dry yeast is awesome. 

Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Frankenbrew on January 02, 2017, 01:36:08 PM
Dry yeast is awesome.

I share theoman's unpopular love of dry yeast. I use it almost exclusively; only exceptions are when brewing kolsch or biere de garde.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: BrewBama on January 02, 2017, 02:58:08 PM
Dry yeast is awesome.

I share theoman's unpopular love of dry yeast....

+1


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 02, 2017, 03:09:48 PM
if you are done with the beer, it's OK to dump it. It's better to put another beer on tap, than sit with beer you don't want to drink.



^^  I usually finish kegs, but if I'm ready to put on a beer I'm excited about, I have no qualms about dumping a perfectly good partial keg I'm bored with. Friends and family usually get first crack at it before I dump.


Also, in contrast to some (and no offense intended) I just don't like dry yeasts nearly as well - any of them. 05 is more powdery and takes longer to clear than 1056. I don't brew many British styles any more so I won't count the dry English ones. But there's not one dry Belgian strain that holds a candle to the liquid cultures IMO, and I've used them all. Dry lager strains take longer to clear as well IMO. I have several friends that make good beer with dry strains. Each his own.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 02, 2017, 03:53:26 PM
One last unpopular opinion. Quit with the culture appropriation! You can't brew Klickitat Jim beer if you aren't Klickitat Jim. But I'm ok with you calling it Klickitat Jim Style Beer.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 02, 2017, 03:54:51 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 02, 2017, 03:55:42 PM
Not sure how unpopular these opinions are but here's an attempt:

1.  Extract beer can be as good and better than all-grain beer.

2.  Session IPA is really APA.

Agreed with both
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 02, 2017, 03:57:29 PM
One last unpopular opinion. Quit with the culture appropriation! You can't brew Klickitat Jim beer if you aren't Klickitat Jim. But I'm ok with you calling it Klickitat Jim Style Beer.

 :D
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 02, 2017, 05:10:04 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
If I were a betting man I would take bets on this one. NE IPA's are just getting started and will be huge. Unlike Black IPA's which are just the same thing but darker, these beers are a true innovation, and to those who like big hops flavoroma but want a smoother drinking beer, they are a big improvement. 
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: The Beerery on January 02, 2017, 05:20:28 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
If I were a betting man I would take bets on this one. NE IPA's are just getting started and will be huge. Unlike Black IPA's which are just the same thing but darker, these beers are a true innovation, and to those who like big hops flavoroma but want a smoother drinking beer, they are a big improvement.

Amazing what American brewers using German Brewhouses and low oxygen brewing techniques can do!  8)
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 02, 2017, 05:36:46 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
to those who like big hops flavoroma but want a smoother drinking beer, they are a big improvement.
So it's an APA.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 02, 2017, 05:39:02 PM
I still have to taste the first homebrewed sour beer that I really like.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: The Beerery on January 02, 2017, 05:53:56 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
to those who like big hops flavoroma but want a smoother drinking beer, they are a big improvement.
So it's an APA.

No, its an IPA. But low oxygen beers are smoother in nature. There is a malt bitterness that is not present in Low oxygen beers, the Germans call it "Herbstoffe"(grain bitterness).
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 02, 2017, 06:01:58 PM
No, its not an APA. It is definitely its own thing. An APA is much closer to a regular American IPA than and APA is to a NE IPA.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 02, 2017, 06:21:35 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
If I were a betting man I would take bets on this one. NE IPA's are just getting started and will be huge. Unlike Black IPA's which are just the same thing but darker, these beers are a true innovation, and to those who like big hops flavoroma but want a smoother drinking beer, they are a big improvement.

I would say you're looking at a small, specialized sample.  On this side of the country you seldom see them.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 02, 2017, 06:25:11 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
to those who like big hops flavoroma but want a smoother drinking beer, they are a big improvement.
So it's an APA.

Ha!  Can't say I disagree!

I remember when Anchor Liberty Ale was considered to be one of the original American IPAs, and too bitter for some palates (including my own).  Heh heh.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 02, 2017, 06:27:00 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
If I were a betting man I would take bets on this one. NE IPA's are just getting started and will be huge. Unlike Black IPA's which are just the same thing but darker, these beers are a true innovation, and to those who like big hops flavoroma but want a smoother drinking beer, they are a big improvement.

I would say you're looking at a small, specialized sample.  On this side of the country you seldom see them.
But I think you will, which is my point: its going to get big.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: reverseapachemaster on January 02, 2017, 06:29:23 PM
Brewing small batches are okay.

Decoction mashes can be useful.

One can make good sour beer without using barrels.

Fruited sour beers do not need pounds and pounds of fruit per gallon.

One does not need the fanciest equipment or hottest ingredients to make great beer.

It's okay for people to have different brewing goals.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 02, 2017, 06:47:03 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
If I were a betting man I would take bets on this one. NE IPA's are just getting started and will be huge. Unlike Black IPA's which are just the same thing but darker, these beers are a true innovation, and to those who like big hops flavoroma but want a smoother drinking beer, they are a big improvement.

I would say you're looking at a small, specialized sample.  On this side of the country you seldom see them.
I see them plenty, but most aren't very good.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 02, 2017, 07:02:43 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
If I were a betting man I would take bets on this one. NE IPA's are just getting started and will be huge. Unlike Black IPA's which are just the same thing but darker, these beers are a true innovation, and to those who like big hops flavoroma but want a smoother drinking beer, they are a big improvement.

I would say you're looking at a small, specialized sample.  On this side of the country you seldom see them.
I see them plenty, but most aren't very good.

Where do you live?  I see them seldom here, and even less when I travel.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: curtdogg on January 02, 2017, 07:09:21 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
If I were a betting man I would take bets on this one. NE IPA's are just getting started and will be huge. Unlike Black IPA's which are just the same thing but darker, these beers are a true innovation, and to those who like big hops flavoroma but want a smoother drinking beer, they are a big improvement.

I would say you're looking at a small, specialized sample.  On this side of the country you seldom see them.
I see them plenty, but most aren't very good.

Where do you live?  I see them seldom here, and even less when I travel.
It's already infected southern CA. Just another thing for hipsters to cling to.
There is a local brewery i used to enjoy visiting but within the last 6 months 8-10 of there beers on tap have been NE IPA's. IMO their not very good but ppl round here are going nuts aboot them.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 02, 2017, 07:09:35 PM
I should say that I am talking about the best examples, mostly Treehouse but also trillium. I'm sure there are bad copycats but I also think some will get them right. Treehouse is getting much bigger in 2017 and I'm not sure what that translates to for distribution.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 02, 2017, 07:11:59 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
If I were a betting man I would take bets on this one. NE IPA's are just getting started and will be huge. Unlike Black IPA's which are just the same thing but darker, these beers are a true innovation, and to those who like big hops flavoroma but want a smoother drinking beer, they are a big improvement.

I would say you're looking at a small, specialized sample.  On this side of the country you seldom see them.
I see them plenty, but most aren't very good.

Where do you live?  I see them seldom here, and even less when I travel.
It's already infected southern CA. Just another thing for hipsters to cling to.
There is a local brewery i used to enjoy visiting but within the last 6 months 8-10 of there beers on tap have been NE IPA's. IMO their not very good but ppl round here are going nuts aboot them.
Its not a hipster thing where I live. People of all stripes are loving these beers here. Again, these might be better examples.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Phil_M on January 02, 2017, 07:16:01 PM
I mean, look at regular IPAs. Half of them at least are lousy.

I've not enjoyed the one NEIPA I've tried, but I'd try one again.

IMO, most APA's don't have enough malt flavor to be called an APA. Often seems like folks try to make them into "session" IPAs.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: curtdogg on January 02, 2017, 07:18:56 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
If I were a betting man I would take bets on this one. NE IPA's are just getting started and will be huge. Unlike Black IPA's which are just the same thing but darker, these beers are a true innovation, and to those who like big hops flavoroma but want a smoother drinking beer, they are a big improvement.

I would say you're looking at a small, specialized sample.  On this side of the country you seldom see them.
I see them plenty, but most aren't very good.

Where do you live?  I see them seldom here, and even less when I travel.
It's already infected southern CA. Just another thing for hipsters to cling to.
There is a local brewery i used to enjoy visiting but within the last 6 months 8-10 of there beers on tap have been NE IPA's. IMO their not very good but ppl round here are going nuts aboot them.
Its not a hipster thing where I live. People of all stripes are loving these beers here. Again, these might be better examples.
Those are the ones i always hear about.
Virtually unattainable for me.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: yso191 on January 02, 2017, 07:33:14 PM
It would be fun to do a truly blind taste test on the best NE IPAs and the best PNW IPAs.  By blind I mean blindfolded.

I am willing to fall on this grenade if someone wants to send me some Heady Topper, et al.   8)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 02, 2017, 08:19:14 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
If I were a betting man I would take bets on this one. NE IPA's are just getting started and will be huge. Unlike Black IPA's which are just the same thing but darker, these beers are a true innovation, and to those who like big hops flavoroma but want a smoother drinking beer, they are a big improvement.

I would say you're looking at a small, specialized sample.  On this side of the country you seldom see them.
I see them plenty, but most aren't very good.

Where do you live?  I see them seldom here, and even less when I travel.
In SoCal, but saw plenty in Portland a couple of months back.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 02, 2017, 08:44:44 PM
All of the ne ipas smell and taste like overripe fruit and body odor to me, not my cup of tea.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bjanat on January 02, 2017, 09:32:39 PM
My unpopular opinion is that too many people reach a comfort level in brewing, stop learning, and think polite praise is a sign of quality. A lot of homebrew sucks. (Not that I go around saying that).

And I don't like Amarillo and Mosaic.


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 02, 2017, 09:38:14 PM
My unpopular opinion is that too many people reach a comfort level in brewing, stop learning, and think polite praise is a sign of quality. A lot of homebrew sucks. (Not that I go around saying that).

And I don't like Amarillo and Mosaic.


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A lot of homebrew does suck.  Come on over, I've got some here for you!  ;)

I totally agree about Mosaic.  That is one hop I cannot stand.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Hooper on January 03, 2017, 02:24:23 AM
My possibly unpopular belief is that this is total BS...Those darn runty yeasts

In fact, many of today’s hazy IPA brewers are trying to harvest the Heady yeast to propagate their own, hoping for similar results. What started as a hand-me-down culture from his mentor at Vermont Pub & Brewery, and, before that, an English brewer in the ‘90s, has become the progenitor of an entirely different strain of IPAs. And that’s not necessarily a good thing.

“They’re brewing with the runtiest of the runts that you might be able to culture out of the bottom of the can,” Kimmich says. “When you get to the bottom of the can, there’s a very fine layer on the bottom. Sure, there’s yeast in there—it’s unfiltered. But that yeast didn’t drop out over 3.5 weeks of conditioning. That’s what you do not want to brew with. That is far, far removed from the best, healthiest yeast. So when you culture that up to brew with it, of course, you’re going to have even hazier beers.”

And...El Dorado hops suck...
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: santoch on January 03, 2017, 03:58:33 AM
I haven't seen any NE IPA's up here near Seattle either, though I admit I'm not out looking for them.  All that yeast is bound to cause some nasty beer farts.

Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: banjo-guy on January 03, 2017, 05:35:51 AM
5 gallons is just too much beer.


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Hooper on January 03, 2017, 12:08:42 PM
I once brewed 2.5 gallons thinking I could brew more often. The brew day was just as long and what a disappointment when I looked into that 1/2 full bucket at the end of the day...5 gallons is just right for me...
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 03, 2017, 12:20:11 PM
I once brewed 2.5 gallons thinking I could brew more often. The brew day was just as long and what a disappointment when I looked into that 1/2 full bucket at the end of the day...5 gallons is just right for me...

Same here. I do small batch hop trials but once I get the recipe I want, it's 5 gallons.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 03, 2017, 01:00:51 PM
I once brewed 2.5 gallons thinking I could brew more often. The brew day was just as long and what a disappointment when I looked into that 1/2 full bucket at the end of the day...5 gallons is just right for me...
I would think it would not save time to do a smaller batch if you simply did a half batch in the same system. I have to lug everything from my cellar and a shed to my yard to do a 5 gallon batch. The winter is the only time I get to brew regularly and I rarely have time on the weekend. During the winter I brew biab on the stove top. I can get home at 5:15 and be cleaned up by 9:00 with 2.5 gallons in the fermenter. My 5 gallon system takes 5-6 hours if you include hauling the equipment and completely putting it away. I don't want to do 2.5 gallon batches but for now I can do them almost every week for a few months as opposed to being lucky to do it once a month. When I get a proper brewery set up I'm going to be a juggernaut.
As to NE IPAs I am lucky to have access to the better versions. Those are so good that I think more breweries will eventually figure out how to do them justice.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: theDarkSide on January 03, 2017, 01:47:55 PM
New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
If I were a betting man I would take bets on this one. NE IPA's are just getting started and will be huge. Unlike Black IPA's which are just the same thing but darker, these beers are a true innovation, and to those who like big hops flavoroma but want a smoother drinking beer, they are a big improvement. 

Agree with Pete on this one.  Some breweries are reinventing themselves with the NEIPA style.  Great Rhythm in Portsmouth made some pretty plain-Jane beers, but now are selling out on a regular basis and just built themselves a new facility.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 03, 2017, 02:21:09 PM
I once brewed 2.5 gallons thinking I could brew more often. The brew day was just as long and what a disappointment when I looked into that 1/2 full bucket at the end of the day...5 gallons is just right for me...

Smaller batches do actually save up to about an hour on average -- less time to get to a boil, less time to runoff, no need to make yeast starters in a lot of cases, yadda yadda.  But I'll agree, there are definitely some tradeoffs to consider with small batches.  For me personally, I might have less beer at the end of the day, but overall my beer is fresher as it isn't sitting on the shelf for (as many) YEARS before I drink it.  Unlike most folks, I am not a heavy drinker at all, I drink maybe 2 beers per week on average, and contrary to popular belief, I really don't have many friends to give it away to either (doh!).   ;D

So why do I obsess over homebrewing if I'm such a putz, anyway?  I'm really in love with the whole process, and the creativity of it.  It's really a creative outlet.  Plus it satisfies my love for mathematics.... in fact I almost majored in Math in college but my family told me to "be an engineer instead, they make more money and can find a job ANYWHERE".  Good advice, I wouldn't change a thing.  But I do love doing math more than just about anything.  I'm sick, I know.  I can teach you how to do square roots by hand the pseudo-long-division method sometime if you're curious -- ha!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 03, 2017, 02:29:13 PM

As to NE IPAs I am lucky to have access to the better versions. Those are so good that I think more breweries will eventually figure out how to do them justice.
You know, I wonder if the reason the good ones are good is because they are the only ones brewing them low oxygen style. I think most other breweries just think that they need to be fruity and cloudy. Just a theory...

I once brewed 2.5 gallons thinking I could brew more often. The brew day was just as long and what a disappointment when I looked into that 1/2 full bucket at the end of the day...5 gallons is just right for me...

Smaller batches do actually save up to about an hour on average -- less time to get to a boil, less time to runoff, no need to make yeast starters in a lot of cases, yadda yadda.  But I'll agree, there are definitely some tradeoffs to consider with small batches.  For me personally, I might have less beer at the end of the day, but overall my beer is fresher as it isn't sitting on the shelf for (as many) YEARS before I drink it.  Unlike most folks, I am not a heavy drinker at all, I drink maybe 2 beers per week on average, and contrary to popular belief, I really don't have many friends to give it away to either (doh!).   ;D

I don't understand how someone can love brewing and beer so much and only drink 2 beers a week. I try to limit myself to 2 pints a night.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: The Beerery on January 03, 2017, 02:36:38 PM

As to NE IPAs I am lucky to have access to the better versions. Those are so good that I think more breweries will eventually figure out how to do them justice.
You know, I wonder if the reason the good ones are good is because they are the only ones brewing them low oxygen style. I think most other breweries just think that they need to be fruity and cloudy. Just a theory...

I once brewed 2.5 gallons thinking I could brew more often. The brew day was just as long and what a disappointment when I looked into that 1/2 full bucket at the end of the day...5 gallons is just right for me...

Smaller batches do actually save up to about an hour on average -- less time to get to a boil, less time to runoff, no need to make yeast starters in a lot of cases, yadda yadda.  But I'll agree, there are definitely some tradeoffs to consider with small batches.  For me personally, I might have less beer at the end of the day, but overall my beer is fresher as it isn't sitting on the shelf for (as many) YEARS before I drink it.  Unlike most folks, I am not a heavy drinker at all, I drink maybe 2 beers per week on average, and contrary to popular belief, I really don't have many friends to give it away to either (doh!).   ;D

I don't understand how someone can love brewing and beer so much and only drink 2 beers a week. I try to limit myself to 2 pints a night.

I stand behind that theory!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 03, 2017, 02:51:08 PM
I don't understand how someone can love brewing and beer so much and only drink 2 beers a week. I try to limit myself to 2 pints a night.

I stand behind that theory!

Maybe if I was actually any good at brewing, I would drink a lot more!   ;D
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: JJeffers09 on January 03, 2017, 02:54:40 PM
There is no wrong way to homebrew.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: udubdawg on January 03, 2017, 03:24:16 PM
It's my beer and if I am bored or underwhelmed with it I'll dump it out if I damn well please. 

Don't come at me with the childish idea of "alcohol abuse"
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: The Beerery on January 03, 2017, 03:26:11 PM
I don't understand how someone can love brewing and beer so much and only drink 2 beers a week. I try to limit myself to 2 pints a night.

I stand behind that theory!

Maybe if I was actually any good at brewing, I would drink a lot more!   ;D

Actually my quote was meant to be for the NEIPA's, but I am with you DM, I drink ~5 beers a week.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 03, 2017, 03:35:18 PM
I don't understand how someone can love brewing and beer so much and only drink 2 beers a week. I try to limit myself to 2 pints a night.

I stand behind that theory!

Maybe if I was actually any good at brewing, I would drink a lot more!   ;D

Actually my quote was meant to be for the NEIPA's, but I am with you DM, I drink ~5 beers a week.


Same here. I probably drink ~ 5-6 pints/week. In my younger years, enough to float a boat. Or small canoe at the very least.  :)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: reverseapachemaster on January 03, 2017, 03:51:54 PM
I don't understand how someone can love brewing and beer so much and only drink 2 beers a week. I try to limit myself to 2 pints a night.

I drink 5-6 beers per week and generally only on the weekends. That's not because I don't want to drink more I just don't want the weight that goes with it. I already work out 4-6 times per week. I don't really have more gym time in my schedule.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: reverseapachemaster on January 03, 2017, 03:52:31 PM
I once brewed 2.5 gallons thinking I could brew more often. The brew day was just as long and what a disappointment when I looked into that 1/2 full bucket at the end of the day...5 gallons is just right for me...

In November I did a turbid mash on a one gallon batch. Talk about a lot of work for a little beer.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 03, 2017, 03:59:27 PM
I have really been cutting back on my consumption the last few months, but 5 or 6 pints a week is too low for me. Don't know how you guys do it. Guess if you have kids that makes a difference. Your 5 gallon batches must last forever. I like a batch to last about a month in the keg, then I'm ready for something else.

I don't feel beer is the thing that puts the weight on for me, it's the food...all that food. I love to eat. Having a beer or two makes a difference, sure, but only insofar as it makes me want to eat more and make poorer food choices. I haven't lost any weight from cutting back the last few months. None. In fact, I think I've gained weight, which is not what I expected.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 03, 2017, 04:05:50 PM
I have really been cutting back on my consumption the last few months, but 5 or 6 pints a week is too low for me. Don't know how you guys do it. Guess if you have kids that makes a difference. Your 5 gallon batches must last forever. I like a batch to last about a month in the keg, then I'm ready for something else.

I don't feel beer is the thing that puts the weight on for me, it's the food...all that food. I love to eat. Having a beer or two makes a difference, sure, but only insofar as it makes me want to eat more and make poorer food choices. I haven't lost any weight from cutting back the last few months. None. In fact, I think I've gained weight, which is not what I expected.

I brew 1.25 gallon batches. That gives me 14 beers. That's a good number for me.

I have 2 kids under 4 and my wife and I tend to have a few drinks on weekends when the kids are in bed and we can relax. 4-5 beers exclusively on weekends is standard for me.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 03, 2017, 04:09:48 PM
Your 5 gallon batches must last forever. I like a batch to last about a month in the keg, then I'm ready for something else.


Nah, I have friends and family come over and have their share. It usually works out in the end - I often end up with limited release stuff in bottles as trade. I like quick turnover in my kegs ,too. Don't get me wrong, there are weeks I have more than that, but that's the average most of the time.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dilluh98 on January 03, 2017, 04:13:50 PM
I have really been cutting back on my consumption the last few months, but 5 or 6 pints a week is too low for me. Don't know how you guys do it. Guess if you have kids that makes a difference. Your 5 gallon batches must last forever. I like a batch to last about a month in the keg, then I'm ready for something else.

Yeah, try having more than a few and then dealing with a toddler at 5 AM. Not fun.

I'm a pint/night guy and my wife is less than that so 2.5 gallon batches are perfect for us, the beer is fresh, it rotates often, and it keeps me brewing frequently.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 03, 2017, 04:27:24 PM
I have really been cutting back on my consumption the last few months, but 5 or 6 pints a week is too low for me. Don't know how you guys do it. Guess if you have kids that makes a difference. Your 5 gallon batches must last forever. I like a batch to last about a month in the keg, then I'm ready for something else.

Yeah, try having more than a few and then dealing with a toddler at 5 AM. Not fun.


Yeah......how about NO???

Sometimes a 2.5 gallon batch will last me a week and a half. That just seems too short. But that was back before I started cutting back, so I don't know about now.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: yso191 on January 03, 2017, 05:20:14 PM
It's my beer and if I am bored or underwhelmed with it I'll dump it out if I damn well please. 

My thoughts exactly.  I am a decent brewer I think, but not great.  I prefer great beer.  As a consequence only about 50% of what I drink is homebrew. 

I brew 5 gallon batches because it it is almost the same amount of time and work as for smaller batches, and (here's the real point) I fully expect my next batch to be stunningly good.  I want a full 5 gallons of great beer!  If I was intending to brew merely decent beer, I'd brew a six pack at a time.  ;)

The reality of my brewing prowess coupled with my drinking habits and apparent lack of family and friends coming over regularly enough to drink it gone, has me dumping a lot of beer.  I'm OK with that.  I'll always gladly make room for the next 50 point beer by surrendering a 35 point beer to the lawn.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: coolman26 on January 03, 2017, 05:56:40 PM



I don't understand how someone can love brewing and beer so much and only drink 2 beers a week. I try to limit myself to 2 pints a night.
[/quote]

This is why I do larger batches. Same amount of time, and enough to not continually run out. A couple pints a night is a good starting point. 


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 03, 2017, 05:58:15 PM
my thirsty friends and family make me feel like 5 gallon batches are too small :)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: lbrennan41 on January 03, 2017, 07:05:42 PM
Whoa, I read through this whole thread and didn't come across my "unpopular" opinion.  Which makes me really happy (but also a little ashamed):

Using a secondary fermenter makes a difference.

I have experimented & in my home brewery my beers clear up faster and taste better sooner when I use a secondary as opposed to when I only ferment in a single vessel the entire time.

Also, and this one is more of a personal preference not a brewing opinion, but drinking a 10% barrel aged RIS in the middle of July is just as satisfying as drinking one in the middle of February.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 03, 2017, 07:11:34 PM
Whoa, I read through this whole thread and didn't come across my "unpopular" opinion.  Which makes me really happy (but also a little ashamed):

Using a secondary fermenter makes a difference.

I have experimented & in my home brewery my beers clear up faster and taste better sooner when I use a secondary as opposed to when I only ferment in a single vessel the entire time.

Also, and this one is more of a personal preference not a brewing opinion, but drinking a 10% barrel aged RIS in the middle of July is just as satisfying as drinking one in the middle of February.

how long are you leaving your beers in the primary before transferring?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: yso191 on January 03, 2017, 07:26:24 PM
Whoa, I read through this whole thread and didn't come across my "unpopular" opinion.  Which makes me really happy (but also a little ashamed):

Using a secondary fermenter makes a difference.

I have experimented & in my home brewery my beers clear up faster and taste better sooner when I use a secondary as opposed to when I only ferment in a single vessel the entire time.

Also, and this one is more of a personal preference not a brewing opinion, but drinking a 10% barrel aged RIS in the middle of July is just as satisfying as drinking one in the middle of February.

Agree with half of what you said.  The second half.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: lbrennan41 on January 03, 2017, 07:33:43 PM
Whoa, I read through this whole thread and didn't come across my "unpopular" opinion.  Which makes me really happy (but also a little ashamed):

Using a secondary fermenter makes a difference.

I have experimented & in my home brewery my beers clear up faster and taste better sooner when I use a secondary as opposed to when I only ferment in a single vessel the entire time.

how long are you leaving your beers in the primary before transferring?

That really depends.  Usually 10-14 days in primary & 7-10 days in secondary.  Typically the beer is at or within a few points of FG when I transfer to secondary.  I feel like getting the beer off of the initial cold break & yeast that has already dropped out and letting it sit & settle for an additional week or so in a secondary vessel makes a difference.  Especially if/when dry hopping.  I run a pretty tight ship so the concern for extra oxygenation or contamination is not really an issue.  I perceive the difference so I prefer to continue to use the secondary.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 03, 2017, 07:39:10 PM
I brew either 3 or 4 gallon batches. 4 gallons gives me about 50 12-oz bottles. I drink one of those a night, which is just under 5 pints a week. I don't like to drink more as I need to be 100% functional at work.

I used to drink more but cut down a lot as a result of using the Alcodroid app. Lost a few close relatives to alcoholism so am super cautious about how much I drink.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: coolman26 on January 03, 2017, 08:16:48 PM
my thirsty friends and family make me feel like 5 gallon batches are too small :)

My normal friends stop by and it is 8-10 pints. 5 gallon batches wouldn't cut it for me. I have to say that even if I drank it all, I'd have to do 5+.


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 03, 2017, 09:07:45 PM
I brew either 3 or 4 gallon batches. 4 gallons gives me about 50 12-oz bottles. I drink one of those a night, which is just under 5 pints a week. I don't like to drink more as I need to be 100% functional at work.

I used to drink more but cut down a lot as a result of using the Alcodroid app. Lost a few close relatives to alcoholism so am super cautious about how much I drink.
50 - 12oz bottles from a 4 gallon batch, that's magic.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: majorvices on January 03, 2017, 09:16:22 PM
I'm not a fan of sour beers. And I don't care much for many barrel aged beers either.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Hand of Dom on January 03, 2017, 09:16:32 PM
I brew either 3 or 4 gallon batches. 4 gallons gives me about 50 12-oz bottles. I drink one of those a night, which is just under 5 pints a week. I don't like to drink more as I need to be 100% functional at work.

I used to drink more but cut down a lot as a result of using the Alcodroid app. Lost a few close relatives to alcoholism so am super cautious about how much I drink.
50 - 12oz bottles from a 4 gallon batch, that's magic.

Imperial gallons I'd imagine. 
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Hand of Dom on January 03, 2017, 09:17:47 PM
I'm not a fan of sour beers.

With you on this one, although I've been trying to have a go at them again to see whether my tastes have changed lately.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: coolman26 on January 03, 2017, 09:42:18 PM
Sours remind me of cider. I would rather have a pull of something else.


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 03, 2017, 09:50:07 PM
Sours are only good when they are world class. And that, my good friends, is a fact, not an opinion.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 03, 2017, 10:01:11 PM
Sours are only good when they are world class. And that, my good friends, is a fact, not an opinion.
My favorites have a WBC medal on the lable
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 03, 2017, 11:49:26 PM
I brew either 3 or 4 gallon batches. 4 gallons gives me about 50 12-oz bottles. I drink one of those a night, which is just under 5 pints a week. I don't like to drink more as I need to be 100% functional at work.

I used to drink more but cut down a lot as a result of using the Alcodroid app. Lost a few close relatives to alcoholism so am super cautious about how much I drink.
50 - 12oz bottles from a 4 gallon batch, that's magic.

I actually brew in metric, hence "about" as I converted all the figs. Typically I make 16-17 litres (final total varies with efficiency) but sometimes do 12 litre batches if it's a recipe I'm unsure about. The bigger batches bottled fill two boxes of 24 x 330ml ("about" 50).
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 03, 2017, 11:57:45 PM
I brew either 3 or 4 gallon batches. 4 gallons gives me about 50 12-oz bottles. I drink one of those a night, which is just under 5 pints a week. I don't like to drink more as I need to be 100% functional at work.

I used to drink more but cut down a lot as a result of using the Alcodroid app. Lost a few close relatives to alcoholism so am super cautious about how much I drink.
50 - 12oz bottles from a 4 gallon batch, that's magic.

Imperial gallons I'd imagine.

Yes or about halfway between Imperial and US gallons. By UK standards my batches are small. Most people here brew 23 litre (40 UK pint) batches, ie 6 US gallons. In plastic bucket rather than glass carboy, usually no airlock. Not as much beer as it might sound as standard British bitters are not very strong - typically around 4% abv.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: BrewHalla on January 04, 2017, 12:54:20 AM
The homebrew / microbrew bubble has burst. I hesitate to try homebrew and new microbrew because too many people believe throwing money at high end equipment and memorizing brew terms makes them a brewer of excellent beer.

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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: natebrews on January 04, 2017, 01:21:58 AM
My Blichmann Engineering Top Tier brew stand, Tower of Power, Fully automated HERMS, and a pile of alpha amylase beg to differ!  ;D 
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 04, 2017, 01:54:32 AM
Sours are only good when they are world class. And that, my good friends, is a fact, not an opinion.

Heh heh heh.  I'm right there with you, man.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: majorvices on January 04, 2017, 02:17:46 AM
Sours are only good when they are world class. And that, my good friends, is a fact, not an opinion.

even world class ones are not something I choose to drink more than a few ounces of. Just rather have something else.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 04, 2017, 02:41:02 AM
I'm not a fan of sour beers. And I don't care much for many barrel aged beers either.

I used to like sour beers, but acid reflux made me change my mind.  ;)

I am not a bourbon drinker, keep it out of my beer please. Wine barrels, and raw oak flavors can be interesting.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 04, 2017, 02:43:45 AM
Sours remind me of cider. I would rather have a pull of something else.


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Though I have been drinking a lot of cider of late. That does not trigger my acid reflux.

A good cider is a thing of beauty.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Philbrew on January 04, 2017, 02:56:51 AM
I'm not a fan of sour beers. And I don't care much for many barrel aged beers either.

I used to like sour beers, but acid reflux made me change my mind.  ;)

I am not a bourbon drinker, keep it out of my beer please. Wine barrels, and raw oak flavors can be interesting.
+1  I am a bourbon drinker, but I sure don't want it in my beer.  (There needs to be a Mr. Yuck emoji)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: majorvices on January 04, 2017, 11:33:54 AM
I'm not a fan of sour beers. And I don't care much for many barrel aged beers either.

I used to like sour beers, but acid reflux made me change my mind.  ;)

I am not a bourbon drinker, keep it out of my beer please. Wine barrels, and raw oak flavors can be interesting.
+1  I am a bourbon drinker, but I sure don't want it in my beer.  (There needs to be a Mr. Yuck emoji)

yes, I am also a big bourbon fan. But not much for bourbon barrel aged beers in most cases. I do agree wine bbl aged beers can be nice. One of the problems with so many barrel aged beers is that in too many cases these beers are aged far too long in the barrel.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: ynotbrusum on January 04, 2017, 12:48:36 PM
My unpopular opinion - Balance is an overused, underachieved term with most new breweries and Homebrewers.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 04, 2017, 12:54:23 PM
I like a good sour now and then but I will have one or a cider when I am not in the mood for beer, like when I don't want to get too full.
Even though someone said they don't like all kinds of flavors in beer as an unpopular opinion it actually turned out to be quite popular here so I'll say my opposite opinion: I like all manner of ingredients in beer if they are done well. I assume most have a negative opinion due to bad commercial examples or homebrews with a heavy hand. I think a homebrews who poo-poos these ingredients misses out on a lot of fun and tasty beer.
One example is that I thought Grapefruit Sculpin had potential but the grapefruit aroma was too perfumy. I made my own with a ton of cascade, whole fruit put through a juicer in secondary and dry hops and zest in the keg and it was a very tasty and refreshing beer. I have used the following with good results: grapefruit, orange zest, blackberries, raspberries, rhubarb, peaches, yarrow, elderflowers, elderberries, rosemary, Kaffir lime levels, lime zest, dates, raisins, figs and more. I also have a small oak barrel that I have enjoyed playing with. A porter that spends a few days in a barrel formerly occupied by mixed berry mead is not a bad thing. They key is usually a light touch and the right style.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 04, 2017, 01:09:01 PM
Sours are only good when they are world class. And that, my good friends, is a fact, not an opinion.

even world class ones are not something I choose to drink more than a few ounces of. Just rather have something else.

That's simply because you have never tasted any truly world class sours ;)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 04, 2017, 01:19:58 PM
My unpopular opinion - *Balance is an overused, underachieved term with most new breweries and Homebrewers.

*Crisp
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: riceral on January 04, 2017, 02:10:26 PM
SMaSH beers are bland and uninteresting compared to most beers.

Unpopular opinion to some people where I live and work.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 04, 2017, 03:54:28 PM
Unlike some, I don't see 'session IPA' and APA (even hoppy ones) as remotely the same thing. I hate the vast majority of session IPAs as they're way too thin and watery to support the hops. A 1.040-1.045 OG just can't carry 40-50IBU with lots of late hopping the way a 1.050-1.056 OG can. I like hops but there needs to be some level of firm malt base under the hops or it's just hop tea.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 04, 2017, 04:16:03 PM
Unlike some, I don't see 'session IPA' and APA (even hoppy ones) as remotely the same thing. I hate the vast majority of session IPAs as they're way too thin and watery to support the hops. A 1.040-1.045 OG just can't carry 40-50IBU with lots of late hopping the way a 1.050-1.056 OG can. I like hops but there needs to be some level of firm malt base under the hops or it's just hop tea.
I'm not religious, but Amen.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: reverseapachemaster on January 04, 2017, 04:41:01 PM
Unlike some, I don't see 'session IPA' and APA (even hoppy ones) as remotely the same thing. I hate the vast majority of session IPAs as they're way too thin and watery to support the hops. A 1.040-1.045 OG just can't carry 40-50IBU with lots of late hopping the way a 1.050-1.056 OG can. I like hops but there needs to be some level of firm malt base under the hops or it's just hop tea.

While I don't disagree with you, if you took just middle part of this post it reads like a description of a terrible APA.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 04, 2017, 04:54:38 PM
Unlike some, I don't see 'session IPA' and APA (even hoppy ones) as remotely the same thing. I hate the vast majority of session IPAs as they're way too thin and watery to support the hops. A 1.040-1.045 OG just can't carry 40-50IBU with lots of late hopping the way a 1.050-1.056 OG can. I like hops but there needs to be some level of firm malt base under the hops or it's just hop tea.

While I don't disagree with you, if you took just middle part of this post it reads like a description of a terrible APA.


Yeah. I actually often like my APAs on the hoppier side (as compared to SNPA at least) but I do them in a way where there's a nice malt base. As for session IPAs , I don't hate them all. Go To and Pinner are pretty good IMO as compared to the others.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 04, 2017, 04:57:50 PM
My unpopular opinion - Balance is an overused, underachieved term with most new breweries and Homebrewers.

you mean an 8.5 percent 90 ibu porter isn't balanced? :)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 04, 2017, 05:10:16 PM
I don't know if mine is unpopular or not. But, I don't like to drink while I'm brewing. It's a matter of safety and paying attention to detail.

I feel that you are more in the norm. I always feel outcasted when I say that I drink when I brew. My wife already thinks that I am wasting the day brewing. So, I figured I'd waste days more efficiently and kill two birds with one stone and drink during the brew day. In saying this, I'm usually not drunk until clean up. But I start the day with a half a breakfast stout with a hearty breakfast. Then it's a hot scotchy (In the summer, it's a scotchy on the rocks). Then I usually split a mix a six with my brew partner throughout the day.

As far as safety goes.... Well, I use plastics and a pump.

This is my "unpopular brewing opinion."
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Peculiar Thomas on January 04, 2017, 05:18:27 PM
I don't know if mine is unpopular or not. But, I don't like to drink while I'm brewing. It's a matter of safety and paying attention to detail.

I feel that you are more in the norm. I always feel outcasted when I say that I drink when I brew. My wife already thinks that I am wasting the day brewing. So, I figured I'd waste days more efficiently and kill two birds with one stone and drink during the brew day. In saying this, I'm usually not drunk until clean up. But I start the day with a half a breakfast stout with a hearty breakfast. Then it's a hot scotchy (In the summer, it's a scotchy on the rocks). Then I usually split a mix a six with my brew partner throughout the day.

As far as safety goes.... Well, I use plastics and a pump.

This is my "unpopular brewing opinion."

I used to drink more during brew days but realized how it was affecting my ability to learn and improve. I still drink but wait until the boil, when I've prepped the last bits of my kit--my chiller and fermenter--then crack something tasty open. I've definitely noticed my skills improving faster not to mention the quality and consistency of my beers increasing. Plus by waiting so late into the day, feels more like a reward for the hard work of brew day.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: majorvices on January 04, 2017, 05:48:54 PM
Sours are only good when they are world class. And that, my good friends, is a fact, not an opinion.

even world class ones are not something I choose to drink more than a few ounces of. Just rather have something else.

That's simply because you have never tasted any truly world class sours ;)

Not true. And, my idea is the most unpopular. MV FTW! ;)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 04, 2017, 05:53:59 PM
Not true. And, my idea is the most unpopular. MV FTW! ;)


I'm with you, Keith. I spent 2 or 3 years tinkering with brewing them before I decided that, even if one came out great (didn't, but had some fairly good ones), it would take me forever to drink because I didn't want one very often. And like Jeff said, I get reflux from them if I have more than one. Lose-lose for me.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 04, 2017, 06:23:06 PM
Sours are only good when they are world class. And that, my good friends, is a fact, not an opinion.

even world class ones are not something I choose to drink more than a few ounces of. Just rather have something else.

That's simply because you have never tasted any truly world class sours ;)

Not true. And, my idea is the most unpopular. MV FTW! ;)
I have very unpopular brewing opinions about certain people.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: 802Chris on January 04, 2017, 07:54:20 PM
You can safely pitch a large amount of yeast trub without a starter with no negative effects, months after collecting it.

You can brew great beer with recipes you make up in your head on brew day.

You can make great beer using guestimation.

Simcoe hops are delicious and in no way taste or smell remotely like cat pee!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 05, 2017, 07:48:55 PM
I’m just catching up after a week away, so some of this echoes what others have said throughout this thread (I guess that makes some of these less unpopular):

I think I enjoy brewing beer even more than drinking it. I brew at least one or two batches every year that get dumped after their first few pints. Sometimes it’s because it was a test batch, but just as often it’s because I’m just not in the mood for that style any more and I need the keg space. I don’t think twice about dumping a beer. Why waste my time drinking something other than exactly what I want – that’s why I brew my own beer in the first place.

In a similar vein, I brew 2.5 gallon batches and I think I need to start moving to smaller batches. I only have a few pints a week, so it’s easy to get a backlog of beer for me.

I love big hop flavor – especially the newer tropical and fruity varietals. Cramming as much hop flavor as possible in an easy-drinking beer has been my MO ever since my second batch of homebrew. Having said that, I have had many well-respected NE IPA’s (including many from Trillium), and I think they miss the mark. They tend to be too soft and flat-tasting to me. They are like low-acid orange juice, undersalted soup or flabby wines to me. Without enough bitterness, there is no snap to enhance the hop character. They are neither “crisp” nor “balanced” to my palate. I’m not looking for 100+ IBU’s with 400ppm of sulfate, but you need at least something there at the end for the hop flavor to bounce off of.

I have a sweet tooth, and while I like most of my beer to be dry, there are a few exceptions in my brewing where I enjoy sweetness. I like sherry-like barleywines in the style of Thomas Hardy. I like draught-style ciders, although the ones I brew are not quite as sweet as the commercial varieties. Any many of my favorite meads finish up near 1.050. Not every adult beverage needs to be bone-dry.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Lazy Ant Brewing on January 05, 2017, 08:38:55 PM
I'm sensitive to the taste of cascade and similar hops.  In almost every beer containing them, the hops are all I can seem to taste!  No grain or yeast flavors, just the hops.

If you like them, fine, but count me out.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 05, 2017, 09:05:31 PM
Any many of my favorite meads finish up near 1.050. Not every adult beverage needs to be bone-dry.
I guess I know why you needed to recover from the shock when you tried my dry berry mead.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 05, 2017, 11:17:59 PM
Any many of my favorite meads finish up near 1.050. Not every adult beverage needs to be bone-dry.
I guess I know why you needed to recover from the shock when you tried my dry berry mead.
I straight HATE dry mead.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: chumley on January 06, 2017, 12:11:49 AM
About 10 years ago on a different forum, a thread like this was pretty fun and popular, we just gotta stick to one rule, no arguing or trying to change opinions. Just state your opinion or belief about brewing that doesn't seem popular..

Mine is.... I don't like Citra hops, they taste like soap and bell peppers to me.

I don't like CTZ hops, except in very small doses in combination with other hops.  I pass on the dank.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Philbrew on January 06, 2017, 01:38:39 AM
You can safely pitch a large amount of yeast trub without a starter with no negative effects, months after collecting it.

You can brew great beer with recipes you make up in your head on brew day.

You can make great beer using guestimation.

Simcoe hops are delicious and in no way taste or smell remotely like cat pee!
OK, this one I can't resist.  How do you know simcoe hops don't taste like cat pee?  :)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: BrewBama on January 06, 2017, 01:56:11 AM
You can safely pitch a large amount of yeast trub without a starter with no negative effects, months after collecting it.

You can brew great beer with recipes you make up in your head on brew day.

You can make great beer using guestimation.

Simcoe hops are delicious and in no way taste or smell remotely like cat pee!
OK, this one I can't resist.  How do you know simcoe hops don't taste like cat pee?  :)

Blind triangle. :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: theoman on January 06, 2017, 10:31:41 AM
Simcoe hops are delicious and in no way taste or smell remotely like cat pee!

I agree that they're delicious, especially when used together with other hops like Amarillo. BUT, I used to agree with you, thinking that people were crazy to equate the aroma with cat pee. Then I went to a cat shelter and visited their enclosed outdoor area. Totally smelled like Simcoe.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 06, 2017, 12:29:25 PM
Simcoe hops are delicious and in no way taste or smell remotely like cat pee!

I agree that they're delicious, especially when used together with other hops like Amarillo. BUT, I used to agree with you, thinking that people were crazy to equate the aroma with cat pee. Then I went to a cat shelter and visited their enclosed outdoor area. Totally smelled like Simcoe.

When you have 5 cats.... you don't want that in your beer.  While I can't say I know what cat pee tastes like, I sure as F know what it smells like, in all its forms, whether fresh in the litter box, or dried up and nasty in the corner, and everything in between.  It's nasty.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 06, 2017, 01:52:53 PM
Simcoe hops are delicious and in no way taste or smell remotely like cat pee!

I agree that they're delicious, especially when used together with other hops like Amarillo. BUT, I used to agree with you, thinking that people were crazy to equate the aroma with cat pee. Then I went to a cat shelter and visited their enclosed outdoor area. Totally smelled like Simcoe.

When you have 5 cats.... you don't want that in your beer.  While I can't say I know what cat pee tastes like, I sure as F know what it smells like, in all its forms, whether fresh in the litter box, or dried up and nasty in the corner, and everything in between.  It's nasty.
Cat pee is ammonia, hell to the no is that anything like hops. If someone hates simcoe, they need to find a different descriptor.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 06, 2017, 01:56:36 PM
Simcoe hops are delicious and in no way taste or smell remotely like cat pee!

I agree that they're delicious, especially when used together with other hops like Amarillo. BUT, I used to agree with you, thinking that people were crazy to equate the aroma with cat pee. Then I went to a cat shelter and visited their enclosed outdoor area. Totally smelled like Simcoe.

When you have 5 cats.... you don't want that in your beer.  While I can't say I know what cat pee tastes like, I sure as F know what it smells like, in all its forms, whether fresh in the litter box, or dried up and nasty in the corner, and everything in between.  It's nasty.
Cat pee is ammonia, hell to the no is that anything like hops. If someone hates simcoe, they need to find a different descriptor.

I like simcoe and apparently like cat piss too. I think I might save $20 this year and not buy a pound of simcoe and just hold the neighbors cat over the kettle and squeeze the piss out of it into my wort. I'm a little weary about dry hopping with pure cat piss though. Think it will infect my beer?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 06, 2017, 02:03:37 PM
I like simcoe and apparently like cat piss. I think I might save $20 this year and not buy a pound and just hold the neighbors cat over the kettle and squeeze the piss out of it into my wort. I'm a little weary about dry hopping with pure cat piss though. Think it will infect my beer?


I guess we'd call it 'wet hopping' under the circumstances. Might be a tad...........pungent.  ;D   I'm a big Simcoe fan, too. I think it's like the cilantro thing - people love it or think it tastes like plastic, no in between. My wife swears Simcoe is like cat pee to her, too. It's interesting how people can perceive the exact same thing so differently.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 06, 2017, 02:10:33 PM
I like simcoe and apparently like cat piss. I think I might save $20 this year and not buy a pound and just hold the neighbors cat over the kettle and squeeze the piss out of it into my wort. I'm a little weary about dry hopping with pure cat piss though. Think it will infect my beer?


I guess we'd call it 'wet hopping' under the circumstances. Might be a tad...........pungent.  ;D   I'm a big Simcoe fan, too. I think it's like the cilantro thing - people love it or think it tastes like plastic, no in between. My wife swears Simcoe is like cat pee to her, too. It's interesting how people can perceive the exact same thing so differently.

Lol... my wife lumps all super hoppy beers into the "dish soap" category. She doesn't get far enough into it to differentiate between Dawn or Palmolive.

But you're right. That's how I am with Mosaic. Most say they get a nice fruity blueberry flavor. I get a very bland straw-like taste. Mental perception plays a big part in it as well. I can drink a beer and know it has mosaic in it... It's in my mind already that I don't like that beer. There's only been a couple commercial examples that I've had that I like.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 06, 2017, 02:22:42 PM
Simcoe hops are delicious and in no way taste or smell remotely like cat pee!

I agree that they're delicious, especially when used together with other hops like Amarillo. BUT, I used to agree with you, thinking that people were crazy to equate the aroma with cat pee. Then I went to a cat shelter and visited their enclosed outdoor area. Totally smelled like Simcoe.

When you have 5 cats.... you don't want that in your beer.  While I can't say I know what cat pee tastes like, I sure as F know what it smells like, in all its forms, whether fresh in the litter box, or dried up and nasty in the corner, and everything in between.  It's nasty.
Cat pee is ammonia, hell to the no is that anything like hops. If someone hates simcoe, they need to find a different descriptor.

I like simcoe and apparently like cat piss too. I think I might save $20 this year and not buy a pound of simcoe and just hold the neighbors cat over the kettle and squeeze the piss out of it into my wort. I'm a little weary about dry hopping with pure cat piss though. Think it will infect my beer?
Stan Hieronymus quotes research that states that perceiving the cat pee aroma is genetic, and more women get it than men. My wife hates Simcoe. She was surprised when she learned that Bell's Quinannon Falls Lager uses Simcoe as a dry hop - they do use a restrained hand on the dry hopping.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 06, 2017, 02:46:59 PM
Cat pee is ammonia, hell to the no is that anything like hops. If someone hates simcoe, they need to find a different descriptor.

There are WAY more chemicals in cat pee than ammonia, oh my god...
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Delo on January 06, 2017, 03:03:18 PM
I wonder if people who own cats are less likely to like the “cat pee” hops.  I never had a cat so I don’t know what their piss smells like.  I do like simcoe, cilantro and I guess dishsoap.  My personal preference was for Lux, but I found Palmolive had a nice, piquant after-dinner flavor - heady, but with just a touch of mellow smoothness
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 06, 2017, 03:14:47 PM
My personal preference was for Lux, but I found Palmolive had a nice, piquant after-dinner flavor - heady, but with just a touch of mellow smoothness

Ha!  Got it!  ;)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: gman23 on January 06, 2017, 03:33:52 PM
Finally came up with one. US-05 is just as good as WY1056 and WLP001 for MY palate and I get it to clear just fine. Maybe it has been said already...
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 06, 2017, 03:42:02 PM
My new blue cooler mash tun isn't as efficient as my old blue cooler mash tun. I'm beginning to question the amount of mashing magic that blue coolers maufactured after 2015 have. It figures since everybody is trying to cut corners to up their profits nowadays!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pkrone on January 06, 2017, 04:09:36 PM
Ok.  Here are mine...

I really like brewing pale, lower alcohol, lightly-hopped beers, like helles.   I like the way they taste and the way off flavors aren't hidden under a pound of hops.

I don't like estery beer.   Danstar Windsor is the worst yeast out there. 

I don't like high alcohol beer.  I wish the "double this, double that" craze would freaking die already.  For what it's worth, I don't like dubbel either.   

Done.  Out.

Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 06, 2017, 04:16:16 PM
I'm not a hop person. There are a smattering of varieties I like but I don't geek out on them. As a result, I am burnt out on all the PAs and IPAs out there. There are a couple standbys I love but as a whole I'm just not that into it.

I don't like Belgian beer in the general sense. I like the Trappists, and not even all of them. When I say I'm a Belgian beer fan, I really mean that I'm a fan of specific monastic beers.

Same goes with zee Germans. My taste buds don't stray far from Bavaria. Although Bitburger is delicious and I enjoy the occasional Warstiener.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Wheat_Brewer on January 06, 2017, 05:22:26 PM
Mine....

- Bourbon aged beer. If I wanted a reminder of my poor drinking/life decisions from my college years I would drink bourbon and chase it with beer. I simply don't want my beer to taste like I just took a shot and chased it with beer...or a reminder of bad decisions from my youth.

- Running into homebrew clubs when abroad...this has happened twice and it ruined both tours with members of the club relentless peppering the staff with highly technical questions and then arguing with them to prove they were right. Shut up, learn what you can, and be grateful to them sharing their knowledge.

Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 06, 2017, 05:30:18 PM
Mine....

- Bourbon aged beer. If I wanted a reminder of my poor drinking/life decisions from my college years I would drink bourbon and chase it with beer. I simply don't want my beer to taste like I just took a shot and chased it with beer...or a reminder of bad decisions from my youth.

- Running into homebrew clubs when abroad...this has happened twice and it ruined both tours with members of the club relentless peppering the staff with highly technical questions and then arguing with them to prove they were right. Shut up, learn what you can, and be grateful to them sharing their knowledge.

Bourbon beers are about the hottest thing right now too. I tell you what... I was right there with you 2-3 years ago when this started to become trendy. Most were plane bad. Tasted like bourbon cough syrup. I will have to admit that some breweries are getting much better at their aging process and are serving up some nicely blended flavors of beers. Revolution's Deth's Tar is one of the best beers I've ever had.

By no means am I telling you that you're wrong, because I certainly get it. Just thought it was an opportunity to share my experience with bourbon beers as well.  :P There are still some bad ones out there too.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: ynotbrusum on January 06, 2017, 05:33:21 PM
My wife says this about me:  don't always explain the answer, just give it.  When talking with Homebrewers I tend to think that everyone wants to "swim in the deep waters"; I tend to forget that the casual homebrewer and new guy just want to know what to do in a situation, not so much the why.....

All levels are equally important to the hobby.  The new guys bring energy and the old guys bring stability and mentoring.  I resolve to be a more intentional, but not excessive mentor in 2017.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 06, 2017, 05:37:18 PM
My wife says this about me:  don't always explain the answer, just give it.  When talking with Homebrewers I tend to think that everyone wants to "swim in the deep waters"; I tend to forget that the casual homebrewer and new guy just want to know what to do in a situation, not so much the why.....

All levels are equally important to the hobby.  The new guys bring energy and the old guys bring stability and mentoring.  I resolve to be a more intentional, but not excessive mentor in 2017.

Very good advice. A guy at work got his first extract kit for Christmas. I had so much advice to give him. But instead, I kept it simple with some solid pointers and allowed him to ask me questions after the brew day. One thing that he keeps fighting me with is a secondary and how his brother insists on how it's necessary and the instructions say to rack it. It's a Fat Tire clone. I think I have him convinced to just leave it on the yeast lol.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 06, 2017, 05:41:25 PM
My wife says this about me:  don't always explain the answer, just give it.  When talking with Homebrewers I tend to think that everyone wants to "swim in the deep waters"; I tend to forget that the casual homebrewer and new guy just want to know what to do in a situation, not so much the why.....

All levels are equally important to the hobby.  The new guys bring energy and the old guys bring stability and mentoring.  I resolve to be a more intentional, but not excessive mentor in 2017.



Yeah, great points. I think a lot of us are guilty of burying new brewers under paragraphs when they're just trying to pick up a key point or two. I try to match advice to where I feel the brewer is at, but it's hard to know sometimes. Last thing I'd want to do is to make a brewer feel that 'it's just too tough' and throw in the towel. Case in point :  water chemistry.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: ynotbrusum on January 06, 2017, 05:50:42 PM
I had the assistance of my son, daughter and son in law on a lager brewed over the holidays.  Mind you these people are a CPA, Microbio PhD candidate, and 4th year Medical student, respectively.  They were extremely interested in the LoDO techniques I was using and the additives, but I emphasized that they were not essential to a beginning brewer (the med student has one homebrew presently in his primary fermenter).  Even so, I probably should have focused more on the all grain process more than getting into the LoDO aspects so quickly.  They appreciated my passion in any event, so hopefully they took that away as the most significant thing from that day.

And they are stuck with me in any event....

Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 06, 2017, 05:58:31 PM
My wife says this about me:  don't always explain the answer, just give it.  When talking with Homebrewers I tend to think that everyone wants to "swim in the deep waters"; I tend to forget that the casual homebrewer and new guy just want to know what to do in a situation, not so much the why.....

All levels are equally important to the hobby.  The new guys bring energy and the old guys bring stability and mentoring.  I resolve to be a more intentional, but not excessive mentor in 2017.

Yeah, great points. I think a lot of us are guilty of burying new brewers under paragraphs when they're just trying to pick up a key point or two. I try to match advice to where I feel the brewer is at, but it's hard to know sometimes. Last thing I'd want to do is to make a brewer feel that 'it's just too tough' and throw in the towel. Case in point :  water chemistry.

I totally agree with all of this.  Personally I'm the kind of guy who needs enough data (however much that is) to form a reasonable one-sentence conclusion about any given topic, such that my brain and mouth can then spit out just the short answer and perhaps a short reason why it's valid.  When challenged to provide objective basis/data, I then state "it's based on my own knowledge and experience of myself and/or many", but I find that I'm often unable to cite specific objective references because they are forgotten since my memory is so bad and because I'm pretty friggin lazy.  I tend to remember far more conclusions than bases.  My mind and my files are not super organized to be able to pull up objective references all the time.  So, those people who need to know every little objective detail tend to bug me, even though my conclusions are often/usually correct and originally had good bases.  It's just so much easier to remember small tidbits than detailed bases for everything.

But anyway, we digress... I have no idea how any of this fits into the OP's question of "What are your 'unpopular' brewing opinions?"  And, *smack*, a lot of us are providing personal opinions of "I like this flavor or that flavor in beer", but to be honest I didn't think that's what the goal really was in this thread.  I could tell you again that I think I don't enjoy Purple IPA as it just tastes icky to me but my friend likes it, but a lot of people probably don't really care about any of the opinions of mine or my friends regarding Purple IPA.  Enough about tasting beer... what about the more interesting stuff about brewing process and equipment, where there's a million different ways to brew and all produce good beer?  Or maybe this doesn't matter.  Maybe this whole thread is truly intended to be one big long ramble, and this post is no different and ironically contributes less than 2 cents.  I dunno, just being a dork again.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dilluh98 on January 06, 2017, 06:35:41 PM
I think no-sparge makes better beer than any other mashing process, for all beer types. I'll duck and cover now.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 06, 2017, 06:57:28 PM
I think no-sparge makes better beer than any other mashing process, for all beer types. I'll duck and cover now.
I don't think anyone ever said it didn't. I think most people don't do it is because you get lower efficiency and mashtun space is an issue.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dilluh98 on January 06, 2017, 07:02:12 PM
I think no-sparge makes better beer than any other mashing process, for all beer types. I'll duck and cover now.
I don't think anyone ever said it didn't. I think most people don't do it is because you get lower efficiency and mashtun space is an issue.

Hmmm, maybe you're right. An unpopular method but a popular result.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: rob_f on January 06, 2017, 09:04:34 PM
Glass carboys make fine fermenters.

I sparge my mashes (No such thing as fly sparge: only sparge, no sparge, and batch sparge.)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 06, 2017, 09:57:43 PM
insane minerality like 400ppm of sulfate in your water makes for a harsh and unpleasant tasting hoppy beer.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 06, 2017, 10:32:54 PM
I used to use much higher levels of sulfate in my hoppy beers (300ish) and have backed off to just over half that. I like the hops accentuated without the minerally bite nowadays. Personal preference.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 06, 2017, 10:36:27 PM
I used to use much higher levels of sulfate in my hoppy beers (300ish) and have backed off to just over half that. I like the hops accentuated without the minerally bite nowadays. Personal preference.

I really like chinook hops, but when I started playing around with really high sulfate levels, they started tasting really harsh and I quit getting all the yummy flavors I used to get from them. Once I backed off the sulfate, all the yumminess came back.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 06, 2017, 10:47:09 PM
I used to use much higher levels of sulfate in my hoppy beers (300ish) and have backed off to just over half that. I like the hops accentuated without the minerally bite nowadays. Personal preference.

I really like chinook hops, but when I started playing around with really high sulfate levels, they started tasting really harsh and I quit getting all the yummy flavors I used to get from them. Once I backed off the sulfate, all the yumminess came back.


Yep.  I've never been a fan of the combo of high hopping levels and sweet/caramelly beer so I overdid the sulfate for a while to ward that off. I finally decided that I liked the results better by having the beer finish a couple points lower, sometimes backing off on crystal, and then just using a moderate amount of sulfate.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 06, 2017, 11:37:01 PM
insane minerality like 400ppm of sulfate in your water makes for a harsh and unpleasant tasting hoppy beer.
Yeah, tell that to all the chumps on the west coast with no palate but for hops and bitterness (unpopular opinion, I'm sure).
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 07, 2017, 12:23:54 AM
I live just east of the cascades, so not technically west coast. I rarely go above 100ppm. It scares me.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: PORTERHAUS on January 07, 2017, 02:14:08 AM
Finally came up with one. US-05 is just as good as WY1056 and WLP001 for MY palate and I get it to clear just fine. Maybe it has been said already...

Need a like button, I would agree.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: kgs on January 07, 2017, 02:53:13 AM
I think no-sparge makes better beer than any other mashing process, for all beer types. I'll duck and cover now.
I don't think anyone ever said it didn't. I think most people don't do it is because you get lower efficiency and mashtun space is an issue.

Hmmm, maybe you're right. An unpopular method but a popular result.

Small batches again. I have been doing all my batches no-sparge for years now. 8 or 16 ounces more grain? Cheap. Mashtun space? No problem. I looked at the biggest recipes I could find, and as a 3-gallon batch it was easily doable in my 9-gallon mash tun.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: yso191 on January 07, 2017, 05:22:02 AM
insane minerality like 400ppm of sulfate in your water makes for a harsh and unpleasant tasting hoppy beer.
Yeah, tell that to all the chumps on the west coast with no palate but for hops and bitterness (unpopular opinion, I'm sure).

Only the chumps part.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 07, 2017, 01:33:11 PM
insane minerality like 400ppm of sulfate in your water makes for a harsh and unpleasant tasting hoppy beer.
Yeah, tell that to all the chumps on the west coast with no palate but for hops and bitterness (unpopular opinion, I'm sure).

Only the chumps part.
Boggles the mind, huh?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 07, 2017, 03:02:33 PM
I used to use much higher levels of sulfate in my hoppy beers (300ish) and have backed off to just over half that. I like the hops accentuated without the minerally bite nowadays. Personal preference.

I agree. I only brewed a couple pale ales of sorts in the 300 range after beginning with water chemistry. I think 150-160ppm is the sweet spot for my palette as well.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 07, 2017, 03:03:55 PM
Here's another one. Probably not best practice at all but....

I have complete trust in Bru'n Water as I do not own a pH meter.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 07, 2017, 03:07:58 PM
I used to use much higher levels of sulfate in my hoppy beers (300ish) and have backed off to just over half that. I like the hops accentuated without the minerally bite nowadays. Personal preference.

I agree. I only brewed a couple pale ales of sorts in the 300 range after beginning with water chemistry. I think 150-160ppm is the sweet spot for my palette as well.
My range is 125-150ppm. As a matter of fact, 125ppm is the highest I will target for any ion except for a hoppy beer that needs a little boost in dryness (like a Red X IPA, for example).
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 07, 2017, 03:11:28 PM
Here's another one. Probably not best practice at all but....

I have complete trust in Bru'n Water as I do not own a pH meter.

As long as you are adjusting for the base Malts distilled water pH in your water sheet I'd say this isn't a bad thing.

Bryan has tested our water software in our spreadsheet about 50 times now and it shows results within 1/100th of a pH point every time.

We integrated a "malt override" cell that allows you to match the distilled water pH of the malt found in the analysis sheet.

I don't own a pH meter either but seeing brew session after brew session being verified with that kind of precision gives me comfort knowing that if my Colorphast strips are in the ballpark that I'm dead on.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 07, 2017, 03:12:15 PM
I used to use much higher levels of sulfate in my hoppy beers (300ish) and have backed off to just over half that. I like the hops accentuated without the minerally bite nowadays. Personal preference.

I agree. I only brewed a couple pale ales of sorts in the 300 range after beginning with water chemistry. I think 150-160ppm is the sweet spot for my palette as well.
My range is 125-150ppm. As a matter of fact, 125ppm is the highest I will target for any ion except for a hoppy beer that needs a little boost in dryness (like a Red X IPA, for example).

You're completely out of hand with such low numbers!  :P
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 07, 2017, 03:38:53 PM
You can safely pitch a large amount of yeast trub without a starter with no negative effects, months after collecting it.

You can brew great beer with recipes you make up in your head on brew day.

You can make great beer using guestimation.

Simcoe hops are delicious and in no way taste or smell remotely like cat pee!
OK, this one I can't resist.  How do you know simcoe hops don't taste like cat pee?  :)

Blind triangle. :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
You cheesin'?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 07, 2017, 03:42:04 PM
It's a Fat Tire clone.
No amount of advice will help that.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: majorvices on January 07, 2017, 04:05:49 PM
Here's another one. Probably not best practice at all but....

I have complete trust in Bru'n Water as I do not own a pH meter.

As long as you are adjusting for the base Malts distilled water pH in your water sheet I'd say this isn't a bad thing.

Bryan has tested our water software in our spreadsheet about 50 times now and it shows results within 1/100th of a pH point every time.

We integrated a "malt override" cell that allows you to match the distilled water pH of the malt found in the analysis sheet.

I don't own a pH meter either but seeing brew session after brew session being verified with that kind of precision gives me comfort knowing that if my Colorphast strips are in the ballpark that I'm dead on.

What kind of pH meter do you have with that level of calibration? Mine only goes within a tenth, and I don't always trust that it is accurate at that level.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 07, 2017, 04:19:08 PM
Here's another one. Probably not best practice at all but....

I have complete trust in Bru'n Water as I do not own a pH meter.

As long as you are adjusting for the base Malts distilled water pH in your water sheet I'd say this isn't a bad thing.

Bryan has tested our water software in our spreadsheet about 50 times now and it shows results within 1/100th of a pH point every time.

We integrated a "malt override" cell that allows you to match the distilled water pH of the malt found in the analysis sheet.

I don't own a pH meter either but seeing brew session after brew session being verified with that kind of precision gives me comfort knowing that if my Colorphast strips are in the ballpark that I'm dead on.

What kind of pH meter do you have with that level of calibration? Mine only goes within a tenth, and I don't always trust that it is accurate at that level.

Bryan will have to chime in. He has the Extech model. I don't own a pH meter but he has verified at least 50 times that our water software is accurate to two decimal places (that's 0.01, hundredths, right?) using all common forms of mineral acid, Sauergut, acid malt, salts, SBT and NaMeta, plus out malt override cells.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 07, 2017, 05:00:34 PM
You can safely pitch a large amount of yeast trub without a starter with no negative effects, months after collecting it.

You can brew great beer with recipes you make up in your head on brew day.

You can make great beer using guestimation.

Simcoe hops are delicious and in no way taste or smell remotely like cat pee!
OK, this one I can't resist.  How do you know simcoe hops don't taste like cat pee?  :)

Blind triangle. :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
You cheesin'?

LMAO.... throw back to the good ol' days of South Park!

Apparently a lot of people are cheesin'. I didn't look that hard, but the two places that I placed orders at last night (included Yakima Valley) were sold out of simcoe. I suppose I'll just have to try to replicate the cat pee by blending some equinox and chinook.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Steve Ruch on January 07, 2017, 06:15:22 PM
I believe that a pretty good pseudo lager can be brewed with the right ale yeast (see Zymurgy, Last Drop Mar/Apr 2016).
That piece got me banned from a small lager centric forum.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 07, 2017, 07:49:26 PM
I believe that a pretty good pseudo lager can be brewed with the right ale yeast (see Zymurgy, Last Drop Mar/Apr 2016).
That piece got me banned from a small lager centric forum.
And the GABF gold winning cream ale is brewed with Mexican lager yeast.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 07, 2017, 07:56:06 PM
Here's another one. Probably not best practice at all but....

I have complete trust in Bru'n Water as I do not own a pH meter.


Yup, after continually hitting my ph with brun water, pH measurements went the way of iodine starch conversion tests for me. I trust the spreadsheet.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 07, 2017, 07:57:43 PM
Here's another one. Probably not best practice at all but....

I have complete trust in Bru'n Water as I do not own a pH meter.


Yup, after continually hitting my ph with brun water, pH measurements went the way of iodine starch conversion tests for me. I trust the spreadsheet.
I can vouch for brewer's Friend as well. Never wrong unless you make a mistake
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 07, 2017, 08:45:33 PM
Here's another one. Probably not best practice at all but....

I have complete trust in Bru'n Water as I do not own a pH meter.


Yup, after continually hitting my ph with brun water, pH measurements went the way of iodine starch conversion tests for me. I trust the spreadsheet.
I can vouch for brewer's Friend as well. Never wrong unless you make a mistake

As long as you have some mechanism for tracking malt pH from lot to lot, spreadsheets are good to go. Although checking anyway is still best practice.(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/1fe05b40c8db0ca8d582ac92793e3216.png)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Philbrew on January 07, 2017, 09:12:07 PM
Here's another one. Probably not best practice at all but....

I have complete trust in Bru'n Water as I do not own a pH meter.


Yup, after continually hitting my ph with brun water, pH measurements went the way of iodine starch conversion tests for me. I trust the spreadsheet.
I can vouch for brewer's Friend as well. Never wrong unless you make a mistake

As long as you have some mechanism for tracking malt pH from lot to lot, spreadsheets are good to go. Although checking anyway is still best practice.(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/1fe05b40c8db0ca8d582ac92793e3216.png)
Agreed.  You need some way to check mash ph when breaking into a new sack of grain.  When I got a sack of BestMalz pilsen, I didn't know it was weird.  The first brew with it I targeted 5.20 ph.  My meter said 4.93 and I knew something was off and did some research.  After that I entered it in Bru'nwater as 14L to compensate.  But I'm glad that sack is done.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 07, 2017, 09:14:40 PM
Here's another one. Probably not best practice at all but....

I have complete trust in Bru'n Water as I do not own a pH meter.


Yup, after continually hitting my ph with brun water, pH measurements went the way of iodine starch conversion tests for me. I trust the spreadsheet.
I can vouch for brewer's Friend as well. Never wrong unless you make a mistake

As long as you have some mechanism for tracking malt pH from lot to lot, spreadsheets are good to go. Although checking anyway is still best practice.(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170107/1fe05b40c8db0ca8d582ac92793e3216.png)
Agreed.  You need some way to check mash ph when breaking into a new sack of grain.  When I got a sack of BestMalz pilsen, I didn't know it was weird.  The first brew with it I targeted 5.20 ph.  My meter said 4.93 and I knew something was off and did some research.  After that I entered it in Bru'nwater as 14L to compensate.  But I'm glad that sack is done.

It goes the other way as well. Weyermann sacks are consistently between 5.8-6.0. So you have to have a way, either hardcoding as in BW, or a specific tracking cell (malt override in our sheet) to account for these deviations from the "average" (5.75)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: majorvices on January 07, 2017, 09:27:53 PM
(that's 0.01, hundredths, right?)

Right. I was having a precoffee brain fart.  :P NVMD
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: BrewingBrian on January 07, 2017, 10:40:16 PM
"Glass fermenters are better than plastic buckets.  There, I said it, again.  Glass is dangerous, yes.  Do be very careful with your big heavy glass carboys.  Fortunately, stainless would also be fine."
DMTaylor why are glass fermentors better?

I would say that in addition to more affordable in the long run, it is also healthier to imbibe on home-brewed beers rather than commercial beers.

I would not consider Bud Light, Miller Light, Mich Ultra etc.. to be real beer. I'm sorry but they literally taste like flavored water.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 07, 2017, 10:58:39 PM
I believe that a pretty good pseudo lager can be brewed with the right ale yeast (see Zymurgy, Last Drop Mar/Apr 2016).
That piece got me banned from a small lager centric forum.

Absolutely right. Some commercial lagers brewed in Germany, the US, Czechoslovakia and Belgium are made with Saccharomyces cerevisiae strains - what most people on brewing forums would call ale yeasts rather than lager yeasts.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: The Beerery on January 07, 2017, 11:31:21 PM
I believe that a pretty good pseudo lager can be brewed with the right ale yeast (see Zymurgy, Last Drop Mar/Apr 2016).
That piece got me banned from a small lager centric forum.

Absolutely right. Some commercial lagers brewed in Germany, the US, Czechoslovakia and Belgium are made with Saccharomyces cerevisiae strains - what most people on brewing forums would call ale yeasts rather than lager yeasts.

Specifically pertaining to Germany... which ones?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 07, 2017, 11:39:13 PM
"Glass fermenters are better than plastic buckets.  There, I said it, again.  Glass is dangerous, yes.  Do be very careful with your big heavy glass carboys.  Fortunately, stainless would also be fine."
DMTaylor why are glass fermentors better?

Glass cannot be scratched and is not oxygen permeable like plastic is.  If well cleaned, there is no place in glass for wild beasts to hide out, and less chance of oxidation.  With plastic, both problems are much more likely.... although many people prefer the convenience and non-breakability of plastic.  Those are good advantages, but personally I'd rather have near-zero chance of contamination or oxidation.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 07, 2017, 11:53:13 PM
I believe that a pretty good pseudo lager can be brewed with the right ale yeast (see Zymurgy, Last Drop Mar/Apr 2016).
That piece got me banned from a small lager centric forum.

Absolutely right. Some commercial lagers brewed in Germany, the US, Czechoslovakia and Belgium are made with Saccharomyces cerevisiae strains - what most people on brewing forums would call ale yeasts rather than lager yeasts.

Specifically pertaining to Germany... which ones?

I don't know the strains. Their genomes were sequenced in the study referenced in the link below but the authors (one of whom is Christopher white) are keeping the sources confidential.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5018251/?report=classic

Quote from the paper:
"Interestingly, ten of these S. cerevisiae beer strains are used for commercial production of lager beers, which were believed to be exclusively produced by strains of the genetically related Saccharomyces pastorianus. "

Three of the ten are German - see table S1 in the paper.

I have a hunch the Czech one is urquell - known to be top fermenting. But I could be wrong.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 08, 2017, 01:17:52 AM
The guy that created the dual scale Brix/SG refractometer should be kicked in the nuts.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: RC on January 08, 2017, 01:22:17 AM
"Glass fermenters are better than plastic buckets.  There, I said it, again.  Glass is dangerous, yes.  Do be very careful with your big heavy glass carboys.  Fortunately, stainless would also be fine."
DMTaylor why are glass fermentors better?

Glass cannot be scratched and is not oxygen permeable like plastic is.  If well cleaned, there is no place in glass for wild beasts to hide out, and less chance of oxidation.  With plastic, both problems are much more likely.... although many people prefer the convenience and non-breakability of plastic.  Those are good advantages, but personally I'd rather have near-zero chance of contamination or oxidation.

The accuracy of the above depends on the plastic. Typical bucket fermenters are made of #2 HDPE plastic, which is slightly permeable to oxygen—but probably not permeable enough to matter on a typical homebrew timescale. Plastic carboys are made of #1 PET, which, for all intents and purposes, is impermeable to oxygen (technically it has some permeability, but it’s negligible and it would only be a factor if you are aging a beer for many years). Lack of permeability to oxygen is precisely why PET is used in so much food packaging.

As for scratching, it’s true that plastic carboys are easier to scratch than glass but this is an easy limitation to overcome. It’s only the krausen ring that poses a problem (otherwise a plastic carboy can simply be rinsed out well with hot water). With a wide-mouth plastic carboy, it's of course easy to get inside it and scrub with a sponge. Easy peasy, no scratching. For narrow-mouth plastic carboys, a good soak in PBW (or whatever you use) will get off the krausen ring. And you can buy a gentle, mostly scratch-free carboy brush for plastic fermenters (see http://a.co/626rNXe). I have one and it works great. I've used plastics for over a decade and I've never had contamination, and some of my carboys do have tiny scratches on the inner surface.

Plus—and this might be an unpopular opinion—any contamination risk posed by minor scratches in your plastic carboy pales in comparison to the risk posed by the air, environment, and handling practices of a typical homebrewing session in a garage or the backyard. Tiny scratches in your plastic carboy are nothing compared to all the other contamination risks.

Effectively, there are no disadvantages to plastic carboys, and I don't know why folks still use glass ones.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Phil_M on January 08, 2017, 01:43:45 AM
Effectively, there are no disadvantages to plastic carboys, and I don't know why folks still use glass ones.

Because that's what I have, and if I spend the money to upgrade it'll be to stainless steel.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Philbrew on January 08, 2017, 05:29:03 AM
"Glass fermenters are better than plastic buckets.  There, I said it, again.  Glass is dangerous, yes.  Do be very careful with your big heavy glass carboys.  Fortunately, stainless would also be fine."
DMTaylor why are glass fermentors better?

Glass cannot be scratched and is not oxygen permeable like plastic is.  If well cleaned, there is no place in glass for wild beasts to hide out, and less chance of oxidation.  With plastic, both problems are much more likely.... although many people prefer the convenience and non-breakability of plastic.  Those are good advantages, but personally I'd rather have near-zero chance of contamination or oxidation.
Actually, a glass vessel has billions of micro-cracks that are unavoidable in cooling from molten.  If it were not for them, glass would be far stronger than steel. (it has to do with the stress risers formed at the radius at the end of the crack)  Now I don't know that these cracks are large enough to harbor bacteria or viruses.  Probably not, but I've not had issues with PET plastic fermenters and the light weight saves my back.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 08, 2017, 08:57:28 AM
One disadvantage with plastic is flavor scalping:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flavor_scalping

I still prefer plastic as it's safer to work with.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: majorvices on January 08, 2017, 02:25:40 PM
"Glass fermenters are better than plastic buckets.  There, I said it, again.  Glass is dangerous, yes.  Do be very careful with your big heavy glass carboys.  Fortunately, stainless would also be fine."
DMTaylor why are glass fermentors better?

Glass cannot be scratched and is not oxygen permeable like plastic is.  If well cleaned, there is no place in glass for wild beasts to hide out, and less chance of oxidation.  With plastic, both problems are much more likely.... although many people prefer the convenience and non-breakability of plastic.  Those are good advantages, but personally I'd rather have near-zero chance of contamination or oxidation.

Stainless trumps both, and can be cleaned hot which  adds even more benefits for sanitation. Just sayin'. ;)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: majorvices on January 08, 2017, 02:32:57 PM
Honestly I feel some homebrewers over stress about sanitation. As the above mention about "scratches in plastic", unless you actually have an infection a scratch in plastic isn't going to really matter, even if a srain of bleagian yeast is hiding there and you are brewing a lager. The lager yeast will far out compete the small amount of belgian yeast present.

I don't think one can stress enough about cleanliness however. We recently started using an ATP Meter at the brewery and after I used it I discovered that my tanks were not coming as clean as I thought they were and I had to up my percentage of caustic. I have a feeling some of you may be surprised at the cleanliness level of your glass carboys/plastic buckets if you are only using a PBW or oxiclean soak.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: BrewBama on January 08, 2017, 03:08:04 PM
Honestly I feel some homebrewers over stress about sanitation. As the above mention about "scratches in plastic", unless you actually have an infection a scratch in plastic isn't going to really matter, even if a srain of bleagian yeast is hiding there and you are brewing a lager. The lager yeast will far out compete the small amount of belgian yeast present.

I don't think one can stress enough about cleanliness however. We recently started using an ATP Meter at the brewery and after I used it I discovered that my tanks were not coming as clean as I thought they were and I had to up my percentage of caustic. I have a feeling some of you may be surprised at the cleanliness level of your glass carboys/plastic buckets if you are only using a PBW or oxiclean soak.

What do you recommend for cleaning at the home brew level?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 08, 2017, 03:33:02 PM
Effectively, there are no disadvantages to plastic carboys, and I don't know why folks still use glass ones.

Because that's what I have, and if I spend the money to upgrade it'll be to stainless steel.
I have been brewing for a little over 24 years, and have a lot of carboys. They are getting used less and less. Plastic buckets and a conical get used more and more. Glass has become more scary to me.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 08, 2017, 03:35:46 PM
Honestly I feel some homebrewers over stress about sanitation. As the above mention about "scratches in plastic", unless you actually have an infection a scratch in plastic isn't going to really matter, even if a srain of bleagian yeast is hiding there and you are brewing a lager. The lager yeast will far out compete the small amount of belgian yeast present.

I don't think one can stress enough about cleanliness however. We recently started using an ATP Meter at the brewery and after I used it I discovered that my tanks were not coming as clean as I thought they were and I had to up my percentage of caustic. I have a feeling some of you may be surprised at the cleanliness level of your glass carboys/plastic buckets if you are only using a PBW or oxiclean soak.
After being in German breweries that do open fermentation, I am less paranoid about sanitation.

I also would like to know what you would clean with.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dzlater on January 08, 2017, 04:13:53 PM
The guy that created the dual scale Brix/SG refractometer should be kicked in the nuts.

Since I use one of those, I'm wondering what's the problem with them?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: yso191 on January 08, 2017, 04:20:12 PM
The guy that created the dual scale Brix/SG refractometer should be kicked in the nuts.

Since I use one of those, I'm wondering what's the problem with them?

Me too.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: majorvices on January 08, 2017, 04:35:26 PM
I think hot oxiclean and PBW is probably fine just you probably need to have some recirculation and/or scrubbing. There's no way they are coming clean by soaking alone.  I think it is hard to really get inside and clean a carboy with just a bottle brush. Not impossible though. I have the carboy/corny cleaner that recircs with a pump, I do use caustic for my carboys and corny kegs.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 08, 2017, 04:35:57 PM
The guy that created the dual scale Brix/SG refractometer should be kicked in the nuts.

Since I use one of those, I'm wondering what's the problem with them?

Me too.
The SG scale is off. A 10 Brix wort should be 1.040, mine says something like 1.043. I ignore the SG scale.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: crustybfv on January 08, 2017, 05:38:53 PM
You know, I've won more awards with stovetop/partial mash extract (designing my own recipes with DME and specialty grains) than I have with my all-grain setup.  You can, in fact, make great beer with extract.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: biestet on January 08, 2017, 05:55:10 PM
There is no point in hop additions after the bittering charge and before flameout.


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 08, 2017, 06:07:17 PM
"Glass fermenters are better than plastic buckets.  There, I said it, again.  Glass is dangerous, yes.  Do be very careful with your big heavy glass carboys.  Fortunately, stainless would also be fine."
DMTaylor why are glass fermentors better?

Glass cannot be scratched and is not oxygen permeable like plastic is.  If well cleaned, there is no place in glass for wild beasts to hide out, and less chance of oxidation.  With plastic, both problems are much more likely.... although many people prefer the convenience and non-breakability of plastic.  Those are good advantages, but personally I'd rather have near-zero chance of contamination or oxidation.

Stainless trumps both, and can be cleaned hot which  adds even more benefits for sanitation. Just sayin'. ;)
Food grade white plastic buckets can be cleaned hot. I found out the hard way that Big Mouth Bubbler cannot be cleaned even with hot tap water without being deformed.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: natebrews on January 08, 2017, 06:09:21 PM
In fairness to the BMB, they do say "nothing over 140F" all over them when you get them (at least they do now).
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Leonardashcroft on January 08, 2017, 06:14:17 PM
IPAs are the autotuned pop music of the brewing world.  Flashy.  Popular.  Uninspired and requiring very little talent to produce.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: mabrungard on January 08, 2017, 06:56:57 PM
IPAs are the autotuned pop music of the brewing world.  Flashy.  Popular.  Uninspired and requiring very little talent to produce.

A big dose of hops can cover a multitude of sins. I still enjoy a balanced symphony of hop flavor. My brewing opinion is that any hop that has the potential for catty, garlic, onion...is not a good hop and should be eradicated from the hop fields.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 08, 2017, 07:10:01 PM
The guy that created the dual scale Brix/SG refractometer should be kicked in the nuts.

Since I use one of those, I'm wondering what's the problem with them?

Me too.
The SG scale is off. A 10 Brix wort should be 1.040, mine says something like 1.043. I ignore the SG scale.
That and too many people are sold on them without being told how to use them. Maybe it's the people that need to RTFM.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 08, 2017, 07:14:53 PM
I use one but don't trust the SG reading. I take the Brix measurement and convert it to SG. Don't use it for FG at all.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 08, 2017, 07:18:25 PM
In fairness to the BMB, they do say "nothing over 140F" all over them when you get them (at least they do now).
I don't think they used to but I like to wash my equipment in very hot water so that's a deal breaker.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: phunhog on January 08, 2017, 09:56:29 PM
That nothing will happen if you sell/barter homebrew to adults.  Just no evidence to the contrary .  You asked for an unpopular opinion......
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: BrewBama on January 08, 2017, 09:59:39 PM
...

Bryan has tested our water software in our spreadsheet about 50 times now and it shows results within 1/100th of a pH point every time.

...



I think those statements have been refuted   For example, on HBT where DeLange says:

"Well I hope you can understand why I am so skeptical. I use an electrode that costs more than 4 times what that meter did with a meter that cost 4 times what your meter did and process the results in a computer using algorithms that estimate the calibration parameters, including the iso electric pH based on hundreds of calibration readings and make the pH readings over a 20 - 30 minute period and find the pH changes over a few minutes by several time 0.01 pH. Plus, as mentioned above, bufffer tolerances of ±0.02, temperature measurement error, uncertainly in pHi and instrument noise, even with the lab grade meter I use make it extremely unlikely, in fact I'll say impossible, to measure pH consistently to 0.01 50 times in a row.



I have learned over the years that if it sounds too good to be true it isn't and this definitely sounds too good to be true. Nothing in the real world works EVERY time. Something is glaringly amiss here. Of course I am curious and would be happy to see if I can help you figure out what it is."


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 08, 2017, 10:01:24 PM

As long as you are adjusting for the base Malts distilled water pH in your water sheet I'd say this isn't a bad thing.

Bryan has tested our water software in our spreadsheet about 50 times now and it shows results within 1/100th of a pH point every time.




I think those statements have been refuted   For example, on HBT where DeLange says:

"Well I hope you can understand why I am so skeptical. I use an electrode that costs more than 4 times what that meter did with a meter that cost 4 times what your meter did and process the results in a computer using algorithms that estimate the calibration parameters, including the iso electric pH based on hundreds of calibration readings and make the pH readings over a 20 - 30 minute period and find the pH changes over a few minutes by several time 0.01 pH. Plus, as mentioned above, bufffer tolerances of ±0.02, temperature measurement error, uncertainly in pHi and instrument noise, even with the lab grade meter I use make it extremely unlikely, in fact I'll say impossible, to measure pH consistently to 0.01 50 times in a row.



I have learned over the years that if it sounds too good to be true it isn't and this definitely sounds too good to be true. Nothing in the real world works EVERY time. Something is glaringly amiss here. Of course I am curious and would be happy to see if I can help you figure out what it is."


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I am RPIScotty on HBT.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: BrewBama on January 08, 2017, 10:03:16 PM

As long as you are adjusting for the base Malts distilled water pH in your water sheet I'd say this isn't a bad thing.

Bryan has tested our water software in our spreadsheet about 50 times now and it shows results within 1/100th of a pH point every time.




I think those statements have been refuted   For example, on HBT where DeLange says:

"Well I hope you can understand why I am so skeptical. I use an electrode that costs more than 4 times what that meter did with a meter that cost 4 times what your meter did and process the results in a computer using algorithms that estimate the calibration parameters, including the iso electric pH based on hundreds of calibration readings and make the pH readings over a 20 - 30 minute period and find the pH changes over a few minutes by several time 0.01 pH. Plus, as mentioned above, bufffer tolerances of ±0.02, temperature measurement error, uncertainly in pHi and instrument noise, even with the lab grade meter I use make it extremely unlikely, in fact I'll say impossible, to measure pH consistently to 0.01 50 times in a row.



I have learned over the years that if it sounds too good to be true it isn't and this definitely sounds too good to be true. Nothing in the real world works EVERY time. Something is glaringly amiss here. Of course I am curious and would be happy to see if I can help you figure out what it is."


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I am RPIScotty on HBT.

I realize that. Your assertions have been refuted.


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 08, 2017, 10:04:16 PM
My assertions are based on 50+ empirically verified brew sessions.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: BrewBama on January 08, 2017, 10:46:32 PM
My assertions are based on 50+ empirically verified brew sessions.

I can't say it any better than DeLange: "There's part of the problem right there. If you knew what you were talking about (sorry, I just can't think of a more polite way to say it) you would never accept 50 pH readings within ±0.01 of a calculated value without launching a major investigation as to how that could happen. To give you the benefit of the doubt there is something you do not understand. To be more cynical I am afraid I have to conclude that you are pulling our legs here in which case shame on you for doing it and shame on me for being taken in."


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Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 08, 2017, 10:50:59 PM
Your stories have grown tiresome.  Now's the time on Sprockets when we dance!

(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/saturday-night-live-episode-20-pictured-woody-harrelson-as-graus-grek-picture-id143633057)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 08, 2017, 10:53:04 PM
Tough crowd. If you are happy with what you've got then you're all set.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: brewsumore on January 08, 2017, 10:53:23 PM
IPAs are the autotuned pop music of the brewing world.  Flashy.  Popular.  Uninspired and requiring very little talent to produce.

A big dose of hops can cover a multitude of sins. I still enjoy a balanced symphony of hop flavor. My brewing opinion is that any hop that has the potential for catty, garlic, onion...is not a good hop and should be eradicated from the hop fields.

Although some exceptions exist, but remembering the acceptable uses can be tricky.  For instance summit hops are great as a bittering hop, and when used this way they impart no onion/garlic flavor.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: yso191 on January 08, 2017, 11:11:18 PM
IPAs are the autotuned pop music of the brewing world.  Flashy.  Popular.  Uninspired and requiring very little talent to produce.

Ahh.  That IS unpopular.  And I have to call BS.  Just like any other beer style it is easy to brew, but very difficult to brew well.

Maybe you just don't like the style, or the fact that IPAs are extremely popular, or both.  I was counseled once by a professor who said if you are going to judge a genre well, you must enjoy the genre.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 08, 2017, 11:18:41 PM
IPAs are the autotuned pop music of the brewing world.  Flashy.  Popular.  Uninspired and requiring very little talent to produce.

Ahh.  That IS unpopular.  And I have to call BS.  Just like any other beer style it is easy to brew, but very difficult to brew well.

Maybe you just don't like the style, or the fact that IPAs are extremely popular, or both.  I was counseled once by a professor who said if you are going to judge a genre well, you must enjoy the genre.
Yep. Most breweries brew crap, maybe subpar, IPAs. Very few brew good to great examples. Last year's Southern California Homebrewer Festival was filled with horrible IPAs.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 08, 2017, 11:33:05 PM
IPAs are the autotuned pop music of the brewing world.  Flashy.  Popular.  Uninspired and requiring very little talent to produce.

Ahh.  That IS unpopular.  And I have to call BS.  Just like any other beer style it is easy to brew, but very difficult to brew well.

Maybe you just don't like the style, or the fact that IPAs are extremely popular, or both.  I was counseled once by a professor who said if you are going to judge a genre well, you must enjoy the genre.
Yep. Most breweries brew crap, maybe subpar, IPAs. Very few brew good to great examples.


Agreed. There are good and bad examples of EVERY style, with the mediocre to bad ones being more common than the really good ones. As said, it IS fairly easy to brew IPA, pretty difficult to brew a great one. Generalizations are lame.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: brewsumore on January 08, 2017, 11:58:22 PM
You can make acceptable (i.e. very good) beer and still cut a few corners / choose the quickest, easiest practices.  Much of this pertains to all-grain brewing, which I hope we all agree is the most advanced method.  For instance:

1. For chlorinated water, to remove the chlorine use pot meta instead of filtering.
2. In a pinch, you can get away with "punishing the yeast" as Denny says, and pitch a bit lower than the brewer's pitch level SO LONG as you managed mash/kettle pH, minimized trub collection at run-off to fermenters, used nutrient, aerated well (best w/straight o2), and have and know how to use temperature controlled fermentation.
3. Dry hop the last week in your primary fermenter instead of keg hopping (either/or).
4.  Use anti-foam drops (Fermcap-S) to reduce yeast loss from blow-off, and while reducing the need for a big headspace in your fermenter.
5. If you prefer to brew less often, make larger batches.
6. Do a time vs. efficiency brain check given your available time that day before determining how fine to mill your grist.  More coarse grist = lower efficiency but faster sparge run-off.
7. For cheap n' easy brewing use the batch sparge method, blue coolers are just better, but be sure to get the better insulated ones (5- or 7-day).


Some of my other unpopular practices:

1. If you want to make high quality brew, then be sure to manipulate your mash/sparge water profile based on good research and careful weighed measurements.
2. Yes, check your mash and kettle pH, and just in case learn how to adjust pH up or down quickly and effectively before the mash proceeds in earnest.  To keep it simple check pH with ColorpHast strips estimated 3 points lower than shown, rather than using a pH meter, which half the time I wonder if mine has a working electrode.
3. I breakdown and wash and sanitize every keg that comes out of my kegerator before it gets re-filled with beer.  I buy PLC or PBW by the pail - it's a cost of doing business!
4. I keep spare kegging/kegerator parts and surplus equipment in my brew basement so they're there when I need them.  Also true for propane.  Plan ahead and be prepared.
5. If brewing with a novice on a given day at your place, be prepared to forget amiable conversation, and drinking, so you don't miss a step in your process and recipe.  This is especially true for me since I do minimum 10-gal brews and I hate it when I screw up unnecessarily.

 
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Leonardashcroft on January 09, 2017, 12:15:13 AM
IPAs are the autotuned pop music of the brewing world.  Flashy.  Popular.  Uninspired and requiring very little talent to produce.

Ahh.  That IS unpopular.  And I have to call BS.  Just like any other beer style it is easy to brew, but very difficult to brew well.

Maybe you just don't like the style, or the fact that IPAs are extremely popular, or both.  I was counseled once by a professor who said if you are going to judge a genre well, you must enjoy the genre.
I don't like the style that much.  I brew them rarely, preferring bitters, milds, and cream ales.
The last time I brewed a non-imperial IPA I ended up just throwing in what hops I had on hand.  It won me a gold medal.
I do love me a good homebrew Arrogant Bastard "clone", though. 
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: brewsumore on January 09, 2017, 12:21:49 AM
Other opinions:

The craft brewing revolution will grow and develop, and style guidelines will grow and more styles will be introduced, to keep things "new" and as innovation occurs.  I see no problems with hybridizing styles, but trust the wisdom of brewing with the tried and true guidelines for individual BJCP Styles.

It's a waste of time to say one style is better than another.  Biologically we are born with different tastebuds and proclivities.  That said, I don't like heavy over-flavored sweet beers, especially the ones with a consistency barely distinguishable from molasses.

You simply cannot generalize across a broad scale to say such things as commercial beer is better than homebrew.  You can say that many homebrewers really should either increase their efforts or take up something else like fixing cars, or running a dogsled team.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: MadJohnShaft on January 09, 2017, 01:21:15 AM
I stopped taking gravity readings mid 2016 cause I realized I don't care.

I order only milled grain and it sits for many months before use.

I never make starters.

I ferment at whatever temp my basement is.



Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: coastsidemike on January 09, 2017, 02:55:32 AM
On the IPA thing, I think you are into that or you're not.  I's a very clear distinction on personal taste, with a few in my circles who will avoid it in preference for a good pilsner or cider.   When I visit breweries, all I'm looking for is a decent IPA and to know if they can make and keep something tasty and fresh.  It's the signal on whether I will make an effort to return.

Continuing the thought of unpopular opinions:  it is worthwhile to revisit the plastic vs glass fermentation debate.  Has anyone had a batch go bad in a fermentation bucket due to a scratch in that is somehow infected?  Is this a thing?  Evidence?  Can this argument go away?

I've emailed MoreBeer and the like to ask them to consider dropping glass fermentation jars from their inventory, as the risk of broken glass, lacerations, et cetera are a legitimate risk.  Of course there is no response, but there are plenty of options with steel if plastic does not work for someone.  Glass carboys are high risk.  It's a disservice to continue to either sell or advocate towards their usage, as accidents with glass carboys are predictable as a matter of time.  It also does not scale, otherwise there would be carboys beyond the 6.5 gallon size.  Leave glass for bottles and growlers:  when it breaks it's a much smaller mess.

Cheers.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dilluh98 on January 09, 2017, 02:59:36 AM
I stopped taking gravity readings mid 2016 cause I realized I don't care.

I order only milled grain and it sits for many months before use.

I never make starters.

I ferment at whatever temp my basement is.

Man, that's hardcore! Good on ya!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 09, 2017, 03:04:01 AM
I stopped taking gravity readings mid 2016 cause I realized I don't care.

I order only milled grain and it sits for many months before use.

I never make starters.

I ferment at whatever temp my basement is.




Unpopular brewing opinions and bad brewing practices aren't the same thing!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Philbrew on January 09, 2017, 03:07:37 AM
I stopped taking gravity readings mid 2016 cause I realized I don't care.

I order only milled grain and it sits for many months before use.

I never make starters.

I ferment at whatever temp my basement is.
And you're having fun and THAT'S what counts!  And that should not count as an "unpopular" opinion.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 09, 2017, 03:23:20 AM
I stopped taking gravity readings mid 2016 cause I realized I don't care.

I order only milled grain and it sits for many months before use.

I never make starters.

I ferment at whatever temp my basement is.
I support your right to do that.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 09, 2017, 03:42:01 AM
I stopped taking gravity readings mid 2016 cause I realized I don't care.

I order only milled grain and it sits for many months before use.

I never make starters.

I ferment at whatever temp my basement is.
And you're having fun and THAT'S what counts!  And that should not count as an "unpopular" opinion.
Yeah, I think having fun is very important. Otherwise, why take the time?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 09, 2017, 03:42:41 AM
IPAs are the autotuned pop music of the brewing world.  Flashy.  Popular.  Uninspired and requiring very little talent to produce.

A big dose of hops can cover a multitude of sins. I still enjoy a balanced symphony of hop flavor. My brewing opinion is that any hop that has the potential for catty, garlic, onion...is not a good hop and should be eradicated from the hop fields.

Although some exceptions exist, but remembering the acceptable uses can be tricky.  For instance summit hops are great as a bittering hop, and when used this way they impart no onion/garlic flavor.
The thing about Summit is that the tangerine character is so great that the onion thing makes it like a giant tease. I just picked up some Summit hop shot in hopes that it will somehow not have that savory onion/asiago thing going on.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 09, 2017, 03:55:12 AM
I stopped taking gravity readings mid 2016 cause I realized I don't care.

I order only milled grain and it sits for many months before use.

I never make starters.

I ferment at whatever temp my basement is.
I always take an OG since it will tell me if something went wrong and allow me to fix it prior to fermentation. But I rarely take FG readings any more. It's mostly a troubleshooting steps for me. If there's no need for troubleshooting, there's no need for a gravity reading for me.

I don't make starters for most ales. I brew 2.5 gallon batches and a reasonably fresh pack of yeast is more than enough for a normal gravity brew.

I ferment ales at basement temp, too. But I have an IR thermometer, so I find the spot on the floor that is closest to my desired fermentation temp and put the fermenter there until it is time to ramp up.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 09, 2017, 04:09:14 AM
  Has anyone had a batch go bad in a fermentation bucket due to a scratch in that is somehow infected?  Is this a thing?  Evidence?

Yes, many times yes.  Even soaking in bleach water for like a month didn't kill the wild beasts.  This occurred multiple times in a row so I know it was the scratch in the plastic.  All it takes is one infection to ruin many subsequent batches.  I lived it.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: yso191 on January 09, 2017, 04:15:30 AM
I stopped taking gravity readings mid 2016 cause I realized I don't care.

I order only milled grain and it sits for many months before use.

I never make starters.

I ferment at whatever temp my basement is.



Unpopular brewing opinions and bad brewing practices aren't the same thing!

+1
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: coastsidemike on January 09, 2017, 04:51:07 AM
  Has anyone had a batch go bad in a fermentation bucket due to a scratch in that is somehow infected?  Is this a thing?  Evidence?

Yes, many times yes.  Even soaking in bleach water for like a month didn't kill the wild beasts.  This occurred multiple times in a row so I know it was the scratch in the plastic.  All it takes is one infection to ruin many subsequent batches.  I lived it.

By chance would you still have the bucket?  I'm curious about the plastic type and what the scratches are like.  The buckets I'm using have no visible scratches and I've had no oxidation issues (with rack/dry-hop x2), and so the switch-over from glass has been great.

Thank you Dave.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 09, 2017, 05:08:36 AM
  Has anyone had a batch go bad in a fermentation bucket due to a scratch in that is somehow infected?  Is this a thing?  Evidence?

Yes, many times yes.  Even soaking in bleach water for like a month didn't kill the wild beasts.  This occurred multiple times in a row so I know it was the scratch in the plastic.  All it takes is one infection to ruin many subsequent batches.  I lived it.

By chance would you still have the bucket?  I'm curious about the plastic type and what the scratches are like.  The buckets I'm using have no visible scratches and I've had no oxidation issues (with rack/dry-hop x2), and so the switch-over from glass has been great.

Yes.  I suppose you wanted me to send pictures.  I could but don't know how well they'd turn out.  Suffice it to say that these are white buckets (yes more than one) from the homebrew shop that actually say "brew bucket" or whatever the heck on the outside so they were made for this, and yes, the scratches are visible to the naked eye -- I must have impacted the sides with a spoon or whatever.  Contamination sources could have been several -- I have soured beers on purpose before, and I don't think that ever came out completely.  Also I have experienced wild fermentations, probably when a fruit fly or something climbed in through the tiny gap in the lid.  All of the above.  I found that even after a lot of cleaning and sanitizing, sometimes I would get a good batch, sometimes not.  Odds were about 50/50.  After this happened for the 5th or 6th time, I said enough, and switched to glass, and haven't looked back since.  Oh yeah...... and I did get an infection from dry hops once.  Now I soak my dry hops in vodka before adding -- not sure if that helps but I don't think it hurts.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: brewsumore on January 09, 2017, 05:09:36 AM
IPAs are the autotuned pop music of the brewing world.  Flashy.  Popular.  Uninspired and requiring very little talent to produce.

A big dose of hops can cover a multitude of sins. I still enjoy a balanced symphony of hop flavor. My brewing opinion is that any hop that has the potential for catty, garlic, onion...is not a good hop and should be eradicated from the hop fields.

Although some exceptions exist, but remembering the acceptable uses can be tricky.  For instance summit hops are great as a bittering hop, and when used this way they impart no onion/garlic flavor.
The thing about Summit is that the tangerine character is so great that the onion thing makes it like a giant tease. I just picked up some Summit hop shot in hopes that it will somehow not have that savory onion/asiago thing going on.

True that. 

IIRC, the general consensus, and from my own experience, when using actual hops (vs hopshot) don't use the summits less than 45 minutes in the boil, unless maybe at 1 or 0 minutes, and you might also be ok using them as a dry hop, and that if the onion/garlic appears from the late/dry additions that it should fade after 2 - 4 weeks in the keg.  Do I have that right?

I'm intrigued by the summit hopshot.  I'd love to hear what you learn, however you decide to use it.
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: brulosopher on January 09, 2017, 05:29:43 AM
My unpopular opinion is that too many people reach a comfort level in brewing, stop learning, and think polite praise is a sign of quality. A lot of homebrew sucks. (Not that I go around saying that).

And I don't like Amarillo and Mosaic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seriously! Just because I don't overtly say your beer is s*** and I'm polite doesn't mean you should start a brewery.

And I may just be moving your direction on Mosaic... been struggling with that hop lately.

My clearly unpopular opinion is that how well your grain is milled makes little difference. I shop at several different shops that and also have a mill of my own. There is an obvious difference in the crush depending which mill I use, but my preboil gravity is always close enough for homebrew. Never get a stuck sparge.

You might appreciate the xBmt that gets published tomorrow

New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.

I don't care either way, but I'm not so sure the hazy IPA will be going away. Rather, what I can see happening is the whole regional naming schemes fading off-- IPA is IPA, some are different than others (including in appearance), but they're still technically IPA.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 09, 2017, 06:56:49 AM
  Has anyone had a batch go bad in a fermentation bucket due to a scratch in that is somehow infected?  Is this a thing?  Evidence?

Yes, many times yes.  Even soaking in bleach water for like a month didn't kill the wild beasts.  This occurred multiple times in a row so I know it was the scratch in the plastic.  All it takes is one infection to ruin many subsequent batches.  I lived it.

By chance would you still have the bucket?  I'm curious about the plastic type and what the scratches are like.  The buckets I'm using have no visible scratches and I've had no oxidation issues (with rack/dry-hop x2), and so the switch-over from glass has been great.

Yes.  I suppose you wanted me to send pictures.  I could but don't know how well they'd turn out.  Suffice it to say that these are white buckets (yes more than one) from the homebrew shop that actually say "brew bucket" or whatever the heck on the outside so they were made for this, and yes, the scratches are visible to the naked eye -- I must have impacted the sides with a spoon or whatever.  Contamination sources could have been several -- I have soured beers on purpose before, and I don't think that ever came out completely.  Also I have experienced wild fermentations, probably when a fruit fly or something climbed in through the tiny gap in the lid.  All of the above.  I found that even after a lot of cleaning and sanitizing, sometimes I would get a good batch, sometimes not.  Odds were about 50/50.  After this happened for the 5th or 6th time, I said enough, and switched to glass, and haven't looked back since.  Oh yeah...... and I did get an infection from dry hops once.  Now I soak my dry hops in vodka before adding -- not sure if that helps but I don't think it hurts.
I'm paranoid about using buckets over the fear of scratching them while nesting.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 09, 2017, 08:33:34 AM
The claim that X will take your beer to the next level is usually untrue.

Common examples of X: temperature control, first-wort hopping, using only the freshest malt, no-sparge brewing, Brewtan, LODO, obsessive sanitation, liquid yeast, huge starters, pitching rate calculators, yada yada.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: theoman on January 09, 2017, 10:27:23 AM
I stopped taking gravity readings mid 2016 cause I realized I don't care.

I order only milled grain and it sits for many months before use.

I never make starters.

I ferment at whatever temp my basement is.

This is excellent. Do what you enjoy or you won't do it at all.

"I ferment at whatever temp my basement is" is something I've done for years, but I would design my beers (and still do) with that temp in mind.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 09, 2017, 01:26:58 PM
I'm another who ferments in by basement and brews the appropriate beer accordingly. I live in New England and have a deep cellar. I also built a root cellar that brings in cold air from outside. So during the winter I have spots in my house that are 45f (root cellar), upper 50's, low 60s and high sixties. The cellar is still around 60 in the spring and fall. I am too busy to brew much in the summer so I only do a saison or two. This situation has allowed me to put off temp control until I get a chance to build my dedicated brewery.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 09, 2017, 01:55:34 PM
The claim that X will take your beer to the next level is usually untrue.

Common examples of X: temperature control, first-wort hopping, using only the freshest malt, no-sparge brewing, Brewtan, LODO, obsessive sanitation, liquid yeast, huge starters, pitching rate calculators, yada yada.
As a corollary to this, if you're already advanced enough as a brewer to be considering these things, then changes to your overall process will only get you small, incremental improvements (if anything).
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 09, 2017, 02:22:21 PM
I would have to disagree with the temp control part (at the very least) on that list. :o  . And having done a couple lodo batches, I disagree there as well. Not meant as trying to argue, to each his own. I agree that not every single 'X taking your beer to the next level' is the case in reality.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: kgs on January 09, 2017, 02:53:54 PM
I'm another who ferments in by basement and brews the appropriate beer accordingly. I live in New England and have a deep cellar. I also built a root cellar that brings in cold air from outside. So during the winter I have spots in my house that are 45f (root cellar), upper 50's, low 60s and high sixties. The cellar is still around 60 in the spring and fall. I am too busy to brew much in the summer so I only do a saison or two. This situation has allowed me to put off temp control until I get a chance to build my dedicated brewery.

But if I'm reading this correctly that is temperature control, assuming the temps in those areas doesn't have wild swings. When I lived in a city that was cool but not cold almost all year round and I had access to a garage where temps barely fluctuated most of the year, my ales and stouts came out fine by my personal standards. 
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 09, 2017, 03:52:38 PM
I'm another who ferments in by basement and brews the appropriate beer accordingly. I live in New England and have a deep cellar. I also built a root cellar that brings in cold air from outside. So during the winter I have spots in my house that are 45f (root cellar), upper 50's, low 60s and high sixties. The cellar is still around 60 in the spring and fall. I am too busy to brew much in the summer so I only do a saison or two. This situation has allowed me to put off temp control until I get a chance to build my dedicated brewery.

But if I'm reading this correctly that is temperature control, assuming the temps in those areas doesn't have wild swings. When I lived in a city that was cool but not cold almost all year round and I had access to a garage where temps barely fluctuated most of the year, my ales and stouts came out fine by my personal standards.
I agree that it is temperature control.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dilluh98 on January 09, 2017, 03:55:19 PM
I would have to disagree with the temp control part (at the very least) on that list. :o  . And having done a couple lodo batches, I disagree there as well. Not meant as trying to argue, to each his own. I agree that not every single 'X taking your beer to the next level' is the case in reality.

Temperature control for sure. Before any equipment upgrades beyond a basic starter kit, I'd tell a new home brewer to find a temperature control solution ASAP. For me, that made a world of difference for my beer when I was starting out. But this is also very situation dependent. If you live somewhere with a basement/concrete floor that remains at a stable cool-ish temp, to me that is temp control. I didn't have that as an option starting out and made some awful beer my first few batches because of wildly swinging temps.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 09, 2017, 04:08:48 PM
I would have to disagree with the temp control part (at the very least) on that list. :o  . And having done a couple lodo batches, I disagree there as well. Not meant as trying to argue, to each his own. I agree that not every single 'X taking your beer to the next level' is the case in reality.

Temperature control for sure. Before any equipment upgrades beyond a basic starter kit, I'd tell a new home brewer to find a temperature control solution ASAP. For me, that made a world of difference for my beer when I was starting out. But this is also very situation dependent. If you live somewhere with a basement/concrete floor that remains at a stable cool-ish temp, to me that is temp control. I didn't have that as an option starting out and made some awful beer my first few batches because of wildly swinging temps.



Yeah, a cool basement with a steady temp is a definite improvement over a warm closet for sure. The only issue being it doesn't do anything to account for the heat generated by fermentation the way a fridge/controller would. But I started brewing in a basement with a carboy on a concrete floor and made pretty good beer. More importantly, I forgot about this thread being a 'no argue' thread. My bad.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 09, 2017, 04:30:59 PM
The guy that created the dual scale Brix/SG refractometer should be kicked in the nuts.

Since I use one of those, I'm wondering what's the problem with them?

I know your question wasn't directed at me, but I have tried two refractometers that were all over the place when compared to a hydrometer. Even with correction spreadsheets and what not, they just weren't reliably accurate for me.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 09, 2017, 04:35:35 PM
My assertions are based on 50+ empirically verified brew sessions.

I can't say it any better than DeLange: "There's part of the problem right there. If you knew what you were talking about (sorry, I just can't think of a more polite way to say it) you would never accept 50 pH readings within ±0.01 of a calculated value without launching a major investigation as to how that could happen. To give you the benefit of the doubt there is something you do not understand. To be more cynical I am afraid I have to conclude that you are pulling our legs here in which case shame on you for doing it and shame on me for being taken in."


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

dude, I've taken the lead from many of the others here, when I just ignore these guys. There's no reasoning with them, and they are steadfast in their agenda. The emperor has no clothes. Just ignore them and move on.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 09, 2017, 04:38:43 PM
I think no-sparge makes better beer than any other mashing process, for all beer types. I'll duck and cover now.
I don't think anyone ever said it didn't. I think most people don't do it is because you get lower efficiency and mashtun space is an issue.

I used to say the same about batch sparging, but being subjective it's pretty hard tp prove so I don't really claim that any more.  But I found that I thought batch sparging made better beer and didn't have the downside f reduced efficiency.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 09, 2017, 04:39:28 PM
The guy that created the dual scale Brix/SG refractometer should be kicked in the nuts.

Since I use one of those, I'm wondering what's the problem with them?

I know your question wasn't directed at me, but I have tried two refractometers that were all over the place when compared to a hydrometer. Even with correction spreadsheets and what not, they just weren't reliably accurate for me.

I'm still mapping out the magical correction factor for my refractometer.  Terrill says his factor is 1.04.  Mine, so far I am calculating 0.94-0.98, but I still have a lot more data to gather to know for sure.  The fact of the matter is, only a hydrometer knows for sure.  The refractometer is quite swaggy and only gives ballpark figures.

And as far as a dual scale?!  Ha!  Virtually guaranteed to be pretty far off.

Of course, for those of us only interested in getting numbers within plus/minus 0.005 or so, a refractometer might be considered "good enough".  Many times, I am one of those people.  Other times, I'd prefer to be a little more accurate, so then I have to pull out the trusty hydrometer.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 09, 2017, 04:42:28 PM
  Has anyone had a batch go bad in a fermentation bucket due to a scratch in that is somehow infected?  Is this a thing?  Evidence?

Yes, many times yes.  Even soaking in bleach water for like a month didn't kill the wild beasts.  This occurred multiple times in a row so I know it was the scratch in the plastic.  All it takes is one infection to ruin many subsequent batches.  I lived it.

Dunno why you'd have such problems, Dave.  After hundreds of batches in the same six buckets, I've nevr had that happen.  And how do you know it was due to a scratch rather than somethng else?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 09, 2017, 04:50:40 PM
Dunno why you'd have such problems, Dave.  After hundreds of batches in the same six buckets, I've nevr had that happen.  And how do you know it was due to a scratch rather than somethng else?

This was several years ago now.  I'm fairly certain I had contaminated buckets, based on the random but recurring contamination issues.  It might also have been hoses, which I also replaced.  Or both.  Probably all of the above.  One thing I can tell you is that when I got new equipment, the problem went away.  You can draw your own conclusions, call me a slob or sloppy sanitizer, I don't care.  The problems are gone now.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 09, 2017, 04:53:23 PM
Dunno why you'd have such problems, Dave.  After hundreds of batches in the same six buckets, I've nevr had that happen.  And how do you know it was due to a scratch rather than somethng else?

This was several years ago now.  I'm fairly certain I had contaminated buckets, based on the random but recurring contamination issues.  It might also have been hoses, which I also replaced.  Or both.  Probably all of the above.  One thing I can tell you is that when I got new equipment, the problem went away.  You can draw your own conclusions, call me a slob or sloppy sanitizer, I don't care.  The problems are gone now.

In the last podcast I talked about a way of tracking your fermenters to help figure out the cause of something like that.  Glad you got past your problem, but you didn't solve it so much as avoid it.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 09, 2017, 07:45:16 PM
My unpopular opinion is that too many people reach a comfort level in brewing, stop learning, and think polite praise is a sign of quality. A lot of homebrew sucks. (Not that I go around saying that).

And I don't like Amarillo and Mosaic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seriously! Just because I don't overtly say your beer is s*** and I'm polite doesn't mean you should start a brewery.

And I may just be moving your direction on Mosaic... been struggling with that hop lately.

New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
I've never cared for mosaic. I like Amarillo, but it's not my favorite.

Not so funny story about cloudy NE beers. My local brew pub got a keg of 3F's Zombie Dust (Not a NE IPA) over the weekend. The first one was perfect and crystal clear. My second pour was very cloudy. I asked the bartender if the keg kicked on that pour. He said, "No. I just went back and lifted the keg to see how much was left. I must have kicked up the trub. It's actually better now that it's cloudy." Facepalm... No. Now I have one of the best and hard to get IPA's in the country that has yeast and whatever else unwanted sediment mixed up in it. These people believe that if you mix all the trub up, you get a "juicy NE IPA." I wanted to smack the guy.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: curtdogg on January 09, 2017, 07:51:59 PM
My unpopular opinion is that too many people reach a comfort level in brewing, stop learning, and think polite praise is a sign of quality. A lot of homebrew sucks. (Not that I go around saying that).

And I don't like Amarillo and Mosaic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seriously! Just because I don't overtly say your beer is s*** and I'm polite doesn't mean you should start a brewery.

And I may just be moving your direction on Mosaic... been struggling with that hop lately.

New England, Hazy or Juicy IPA's are a fad that need to stay in 2016.  Happy Brew Year.

Agreed.  I expect them tp go the way of the Black IPA.
I've never cared for mosaic. I like Amarillo, but it's not my favorite.

Not so funny story about cloudy NE beers. My local brew pub got a keg of 3F's Zombie Dust (Not a NE IPA) over the weekend. The first one was perfect and crystal clear. My second pour was very cloudy. I asked the bartender if the keg kicked on that pour. He said, "No. I just went back and lifted the keg to see how much was left. I must have kicked up the trub. It's actually better now that it's cloudy." Facepalm... No. Now I have one of the best and hard to get IPA's in the country that has yeast and whatever else unwanted sediment mixed up in it. These people believe that if you mix all the trub up, you get a "juicy NE IPA." I wanted to smack the guy.
APA.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 09, 2017, 08:02:22 PM
Not so funny story about cloudy NE beers. My local brew pub got a keg of 3F's Zombie Dust (Not a NE IPA) over the weekend. The first one was perfect and crystal clear. My second pour was very cloudy. I asked the bartender if the keg kicked on that pour. He said, "No. I just went back and lifted the keg to see how much was left. I must have kicked up the trub. It's actually better now that it's cloudy." Facepalm... No. Now I have one of the best and hard to get IPA's in the country that has yeast and whatever else unwanted sediment mixed up in it. These people believe that if you mix all the trub up, you get a "juicy NE IPA." I wanted to smack the guy.


Yeah, that's pretty ridiculous. Just like the quality of craft beer is spotty, so is the quality of the people pouring it. Just dumb.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 09, 2017, 08:06:02 PM
I would have to disagree with the temp control part (at the very least) on that list. :o  .

There's less need for it where I live (UK) - never very hot and not much seasonal variation. However, I do keep my ferments cool as I've had nasty hangovers from rare summer heatwaves.

I do think temp control helps a little. But it doesn't take beer to "the next level" - plenty of brulosophy experiments to back that up.

"The next level" is 99% placebo effect. That's not to say placebos don't work - they can be very effective, especially where subjective judgement is concerned.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 09, 2017, 08:45:47 PM
I would have to disagree with the temp control part (at the very least) on that list. :o  .

There's less need for it where I live (UK) - never very hot and not much seasonal variation. However, I do keep my ferments cool as I've had nasty hangovers from rare summer heatwaves.

I do think temp control helps a little. But it doesn't take beer to "the next level" - plenty of brulosophy experiments to back that up.

"The next level" is 99% placebo effect. That's not to say placebos don't work - they can be very effective, especially where subjective judgement is concerned.


Like I said, I made pretty good beer in a cool basement and get that the climate is different as a whole in the UK. But calling fridge/controller temp control placebo effect just isn't accurate IMO. I do see it as 'next level'. It offers an array of benefits (reducing heat generated from fermentation, better control of esters, phenols and fusels, precise temp schedule for beers that need it, better foam at cooler fermentation temps, etc.) Regardless, I don't doubt that your beer is good. We can agree to disagree and that's perfectly fine.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: brewsumore on January 09, 2017, 09:09:43 PM
  Has anyone had a batch go bad in a fermentation bucket due to a scratch in that is somehow infected?  Is this a thing?  Evidence?

Yes, many times yes.  Even soaking in bleach water for like a month didn't kill the wild beasts.  This occurred multiple times in a row so I know it was the scratch in the plastic.  All it takes is one infection to ruin many subsequent batches.  I lived it.

By chance would you still have the bucket?  I'm curious about the plastic type and what the scratches are like.  The buckets I'm using have no visible scratches and I've had no oxidation issues (with rack/dry-hop x2), and so the switch-over from glass has been great.

Yes.  I suppose you wanted me to send pictures.  I could but don't know how well they'd turn out.  Suffice it to say that these are white buckets (yes more than one) from the homebrew shop that actually say "brew bucket" or whatever the heck on the outside so they were made for this, and yes, the scratches are visible to the naked eye -- I must have impacted the sides with a spoon or whatever.  Contamination sources could have been several -- I have soured beers on purpose before, and I don't think that ever came out completely.  Also I have experienced wild fermentations, probably when a fruit fly or something climbed in through the tiny gap in the lid.  All of the above.  I found that even after a lot of cleaning and sanitizing, sometimes I would get a good batch, sometimes not.  Odds were about 50/50.  After this happened for the 5th or 6th time, I said enough, and switched to glass, and haven't looked back since.  Oh yeah...... and I did get an infection from dry hops once.  Now I soak my dry hops in vodka before adding -- not sure if that helps but I don't think it hurts.
I'm paranoid about using buckets over the fear of scratching them while nesting.

I lid them and stack one on top of the other, in a corner in my basement.  Problem solved.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: yso191 on January 09, 2017, 10:35:47 PM
I do think temp control helps a little. But it doesn't take beer to "the next level" - plenty of brulosophy experiments to back that up.
"The next level" is 99% placebo effect. That's not to say placebos don't work - they can be very effective, especially where subjective judgement is concerned.

By this logic no one would do anything to make better beer because it wouldn't make much of a difference.  Go ahead, you keep not caring about taking your beer to the next level - I choose otherwise. 

And I can easily demonstrate the difference between excellent and poor beer.  It is dramatic, and it is not rooted in confirmation bias, it is rooted in process, equipment, ingredients, recipe design, etc.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: curtdogg on January 09, 2017, 10:38:50 PM
  Has anyone had a batch go bad in a fermentation bucket due to a scratch in that is somehow infected?  Is this a thing?  Evidence?

Yes, many times yes.  Even soaking in bleach water for like a month didn't kill the wild beasts.  This occurred multiple times in a row so I know it was the scratch in the plastic.  All it takes is one infection to ruin many subsequent batches.  I lived it.

By chance would you still have the bucket?  I'm curious about the plastic type and what the scratches are like.  The buckets I'm using have no visible scratches and I've had no oxidation issues (with rack/dry-hop x2), and so the switch-over from glass has been great.

Yes.  I suppose you wanted me to send pictures.  I could but don't know how well they'd turn out.  Suffice it to say that these are white buckets (yes more than one) from the homebrew shop that actually say "brew bucket" or whatever the heck on the outside so they were made for this, and yes, the scratches are visible to the naked eye -- I must have impacted the sides with a spoon or whatever.  Contamination sources could have been several -- I have soured beers on purpose before, and I don't think that ever came out completely.  Also I have experienced wild fermentations, probably when a fruit fly or something climbed in through the tiny gap in the lid.  All of the above.  I found that even after a lot of cleaning and sanitizing, sometimes I would get a good batch, sometimes not.  Odds were about 50/50.  After this happened for the 5th or 6th time, I said enough, and switched to glass, and haven't looked back since.  Oh yeah...... and I did get an infection from dry hops once.  Now I soak my dry hops in vodka before adding -- not sure if that helps but I don't think it hurts.
I'm paranoid about using buckets over the fear of scratching them while nesting.

I lid them and stack one on top of the other, in a corner in my basement.  Problem solved.
No airlock?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: brewsumore on January 09, 2017, 10:43:04 PM
I do think temp control helps a little. But it doesn't take beer to "the next level" - plenty of brulosophy experiments to back that up.
"The next level" is 99% placebo effect. That's not to say placebos don't work - they can be very effective, especially where subjective judgement is concerned.

By this logic no one would do anything to make better beer because it wouldn't make much of a difference.  Go ahead, you keep not caring about taking your beer to the next level - I choose otherwise. 

And I can easily demonstrate the difference between excellent and poor beer.  It is dramatic, and it is not rooted in confirmation bias, it is rooted in process, equipment, ingredients, recipe design, etc.

+1 to the nth squared.

Still, all have the right to make the beer they like and like the beer they make - which ever way suits them.  I have no truck with that, but don't think I ever desire to drink mediocre beer.  And I've made plenty of that through the learning curve over the years.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 09, 2017, 10:48:23 PM

By this logic no one would do anything to make better beer because it wouldn't make much of a difference.  Go ahead, you keep not caring about taking your beer to the next level - I choose otherwise. 

And I can easily demonstrate the difference between excellent and poor beer.  It is dramatic, and it is not rooted in confirmation bias, it is rooted in process, equipment, ingredients, recipe design, etc.





Yup.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 09, 2017, 10:51:45 PM
I would have to disagree with the temp control part (at the very least) on that list. :o  .

There's less need for it where I live (UK) - never very hot and not much seasonal variation. However, I do keep my ferments cool as I've had nasty hangovers from rare summer heatwaves.

I do think temp control helps a little. But it doesn't take beer to "the next level" - plenty of brulosophy experiments to back that up.

"The next level" is 99% placebo effect. That's not to say placebos don't work - they can be very effective, especially where subjective judgement is concerned.


Like I said, I made pretty good beer in a cool basement and get that the climate is different as a whole in the UK. But calling fridge/controller temp control placebo effect just isn't accurate IMO. I do see it as 'next level'. It offers an array of benefits (reducing heat generated from fermentation, better control of esters, phenols and fusels, precise temp schedule for beers that need it, better foam at cooler fermentation temps, etc.) Regardless, I don't doubt that your beer is good. We can agree to disagree and that's perfectly fine.

I used to agree 100%, as it was what I read everywhere on the internet. The problem is, the brulosophy experiments just haven't found much of an effect. I still do temp control, I'm just not convinced by all the claims made in its favour any more.

Historically it was a great way to maintain sanitary conditions as cool ferments excluded most bacteria and wild yeasts. Keeping those out meant a cleaner ferment and less funky flavours.

The idea that fermenting warm allows yeast to express it's character better through esters is dubious, I think. I need to see empirical evidence of perceptible effects - anecdotal doesn't sway me any more.

Happy to be proved wrong as it's very easy for me to control fermentation temp with my setup.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Steve Ruch on January 09, 2017, 10:55:59 PM
Not so funny story about cloudy NE beers. My local brew pub got a keg of 3F's Zombie Dust (Not a NE IPA) over the weekend. The first one was perfect and crystal clear. My second pour was very cloudy. I asked the bartender if the keg kicked on that pour. He said, "No. I just went back and lifted the keg to see how much was left. I must have kicked up the trub. It's actually better now that it's cloudy." Facepalm... No. Now I have one of the best and hard to get IPA's in the country that has yeast and whatever else unwanted sediment mixed up in it. These people believe that if you mix all the trub up, you get a "juicy NE IPA." I wanted to smack the guy.

Smack him one for us.  >:(
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 09, 2017, 11:00:41 PM
  Has anyone had a batch go bad in a fermentation bucket due to a scratch in that is somehow infected?  Is this a thing?  Evidence?

Yes, many times yes.  Even soaking in bleach water for like a month didn't kill the wild beasts.  This occurred multiple times in a row so I know it was the scratch in the plastic.  All it takes is one infection to ruin many subsequent batches.  I lived it.

By chance would you still have the bucket?  I'm curious about the plastic type and what the scratches are like.  The buckets I'm using have no visible scratches and I've had no oxidation issues (with rack/dry-hop x2), and so the switch-over from glass has been great.

Yes.  I suppose you wanted me to send pictures.  I could but don't know how well they'd turn out.  Suffice it to say that these are white buckets (yes more than one) from the homebrew shop that actually say "brew bucket" or whatever the heck on the outside so they were made for this, and yes, the scratches are visible to the naked eye -- I must have impacted the sides with a spoon or whatever.  Contamination sources could have been several -- I have soured beers on purpose before, and I don't think that ever came out completely.  Also I have experienced wild fermentations, probably when a fruit fly or something climbed in through the tiny gap in the lid.  All of the above.  I found that even after a lot of cleaning and sanitizing, sometimes I would get a good batch, sometimes not.  Odds were about 50/50.  After this happened for the 5th or 6th time, I said enough, and switched to glass, and haven't looked back since.  Oh yeah...... and I did get an infection from dry hops once.  Now I soak my dry hops in vodka before adding -- not sure if that helps but I don't think it hurts.
I'm paranoid about using buckets over the fear of scratching them while nesting.

I lid them and stack one on top of the other, in a corner in my basement.  Problem solved.
No airlock?
I imagine this is while empty. Not a bad solution.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 09, 2017, 11:01:05 PM
IPAs are the autotuned pop music of the brewing world.  Flashy.  Popular.  Uninspired and requiring very little talent to produce.

Ahh.  That IS unpopular.  And I have to call BS.  Just like any other beer style it is easy to brew, but very difficult to brew well.

Maybe you just don't like the style, or the fact that IPAs are extremely popular, or both.  I was counseled once by a professor who said if you are going to judge a genre well, you must enjoy the genre.
I second the BS.  While I do agree with the first part of the statement (popular-  label a pale an IPA for marketing) I disagree with the second part.  It is hard to brew a good IPA.  I agree with Martin in that lots of hops can cover up mistakes.  That is also true with roasted grains in a stout covering flaws.  But even though both can hide flaws it is still hard to brew a good one.  I thought my IPAs and stouts were awesome until I acquired a better palate.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 09, 2017, 11:01:12 PM
I would have to disagree with the temp control part (at the very least) on that list. :o  .

There's less need for it where I live (UK) - never very hot and not much seasonal variation. However, I do keep my ferments cool as I've had nasty hangovers from rare summer heatwaves.

I do think temp control helps a little. But it doesn't take beer to "the next level" - plenty of brulosophy experiments to back that up.

"The next level" is 99% placebo effect. That's not to say placebos don't work - they can be very effective, especially where subjective judgement is concerned.


Like I said, I made pretty good beer in a cool basement and get that the climate is different as a whole in the UK. But calling fridge/controller temp control placebo effect just isn't accurate IMO. I do see it as 'next level'. It offers an array of benefits (reducing heat generated from fermentation, better control of esters, phenols and fusels, precise temp schedule for beers that need it, better foam at cooler fermentation temps, etc.) Regardless, I don't doubt that your beer is good. We can agree to disagree and that's perfectly fine.

I used to agree 100%, as it was what I read everywhere on the internet. The problem is, the brulosophy experiments just haven't found much of an effect. I still do temp control, I'm just not convinced by all the claims made in its favour any more.

Historically it was a great way to maintain sanitary conditions as cool ferments excluded most bacteria and wild yeasts. Keeping those out meant a cleaner ferment and less funky flavours.

The idea that fermenting warm allows yeast to express it's character better through esters is dubious, I think. I need to see empirical evidence of perceptible effects - anecdotal doesn't sway me any more.

Happy to be proved wrong as it's very easy for me to control fermentation temp with my setup.



That point was that esters are more easily controlled by being able to control fermentation temps precisely, not an argument about warm vs cold effect on esters. As for Marshall, I appreciate his contributions but don't take them as gospel. Or any other one person's for that matter.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: curtdogg on January 09, 2017, 11:02:29 PM
  Has anyone had a batch go bad in a fermentation bucket due to a scratch in that is somehow infected?  Is this a thing?  Evidence?

Yes, many times yes.  Even soaking in bleach water for like a month didn't kill the wild beasts.  This occurred multiple times in a row so I know it was the scratch in the plastic.  All it takes is one infection to ruin many subsequent batches.  I lived it.

By chance would you still have the bucket?  I'm curious about the plastic type and what the scratches are like.  The buckets I'm using have no visible scratches and I've had no oxidation issues (with rack/dry-hop x2), and so the switch-over from glass has been great.

Yes.  I suppose you wanted me to send pictures.  I could but don't know how well they'd turn out.  Suffice it to say that these are white buckets (yes more than one) from the homebrew shop that actually say "brew bucket" or whatever the heck on the outside so they were made for this, and yes, the scratches are visible to the naked eye -- I must have impacted the sides with a spoon or whatever.  Contamination sources could have been several -- I have soured beers on purpose before, and I don't think that ever came out completely.  Also I have experienced wild fermentations, probably when a fruit fly or something climbed in through the tiny gap in the lid.  All of the above.  I found that even after a lot of cleaning and sanitizing, sometimes I would get a good batch, sometimes not.  Odds were about 50/50.  After this happened for the 5th or 6th time, I said enough, and switched to glass, and haven't looked back since.  Oh yeah...... and I did get an infection from dry hops once.  Now I soak my dry hops in vodka before adding -- not sure if that helps but I don't think it hurts.
I'm paranoid about using buckets over the fear of scratching them while nesting.

I lid them and stack one on top of the other, in a corner in my basement.  Problem solved.
No airlock?
I imagine this is while empty. Not a bad solution.
Ah yes, nesting. I missed that.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 09, 2017, 11:24:18 PM
That point was that esters are more easily controlled by being able to control fermentation temps precisely, not an argument about warm vs cold effect on esters.

Yes that's the theory. Just needs some evidence to support it. Without evidence that 60F ferments produce noticeably better/different beer than 70F, it's just another sacred cow spread by the net.

Hence my unpopular opinion that it doesn't take you to the "next level". (No point posting popular opinions on this thread.)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 09, 2017, 11:53:02 PM
That point was that esters are more easily controlled by being able to control fermentation temps precisely, not an argument about warm vs cold effect on esters.

Yes that's the theory. Just needs some evidence to support it. Without evidence that 60F ferments produce noticeably better/different beer than 70F, it's just another sacred cow spread by the net.

Hence my unpopular opinion that it doesn't take you to the "next level". (No point posting popular opinions on this thread.)


Umm........since we agreed not to argue on this thread, I'll bow out. Cheers.
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 09, 2017, 11:55:21 PM
Enter the brilliance of this thread.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: el_capitan on January 10, 2017, 12:21:03 AM
I've just now read this whole thread, and agree with a lot of what various folks have said. 

I think the joy of homebrewing can be somewhat lessened by over-analyzation and nitpicking details.  I also think that things like water chemistry are super-important.  So there's a balance to be found here.  I just can't get into LODO because it seems like religious zealotry to me, and that's not my bag. 

I like bourbon a lot, and I am also a huge fan of Denny's BVIP.  I recently brewed my second batch of this and have never had such positive feedback from my friends.  It's exceptionally smooth and balanced.  That said, I haven't sampled many commercial bourbon beers, so my experience is limited to Denny's awesome recipe.

In my opinion, over the last few years, homebrewers have gained access to tons of brewing information and then tend to obsess over the newest and greatest trend (hoppy beers, session beers, LODO, etc.)  It seems like such a race to be the know-it-all, and then the joy is lost. 

Over the last few years, I've gotten to the point where I'm really happy with where I'm at as a brewer and so I've spent less time on the forums.  I still get a lot of solid info from this site, and I appreciate that the community is growing and pushing the edge of brewing.  For me though, the continual obsession with novelty is kind of tiresome. 

Brewing is a rewarding hobby for me, but I also have a ton of other interests and demands on my time, so maybe I'm taking a more balanced approach. 

As for the "a lot of homebrew is crap" mentality, you have to appreciate that somebody took the time to attempt to craft a beer.  If it's not perfect (and is it ever?) I think the best approach is to make some helpful suggestions and thank the brewer for sharing their beer.  Also, share the knowledge.  I teach a couple of homebrewing classes each year, and it's always rewarding just to see new people getting involved with a DIY lifestyle, however they do it. 

Cheers, y'all. 
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 10, 2017, 01:11:24 AM
I've just now read this whole thread, and agree with a lot of what various folks have said. 

I think the joy of homebrewing can be somewhat lessened by over-analyzation and nitpicking details.  I also think that things like water chemistry are super-important.  So there's a balance to be found here.  I just can't get into LODO because it seems like religious zealotry to me, and that's not my bag. 

I like bourbon a lot, and I am also a huge fan of Denny's BVIP.  I recently brewed my second batch of this and have never had such positive feedback from my friends.  It's exceptionally smooth and balanced.  That said, I haven't sampled many commercial bourbon beers, so my experience is limited to Denny's awesome recipe.

In my opinion, over the last few years, homebrewers have gained access to tons of brewing information and then tend to obsess over the newest and greatest trend (hoppy beers, session beers, LODO, etc.)  It seems like such a race to be the know-it-all, and then the joy is lost. 

Over the last few years, I've gotten to the point where I'm really happy with where I'm at as a brewer and so I've spent less time on the forums.  I still get a lot of solid info from this site, and I appreciate that the community is growing and pushing the edge of brewing.  For me though, the continual obsession with novelty is kind of tiresome. 

Brewing is a rewarding hobby for me, but I also have a ton of other interests and demands on my time, so maybe I'm taking a more balanced approach. 

As for the "a lot of homebrew is crap" mentality, you have to appreciate that somebody took the time to attempt to craft a beer.  If it's not perfect (and is it ever?) I think the best approach is to make some helpful suggestions and thank the brewer for sharing their beer.  Also, share the knowledge.  I teach a couple of homebrewing classes each year, and it's always rewarding just to see new people getting involved with a DIY lifestyle, however they do it. 

Cheers, y'all.
Right on!


It's an Internet forum, so there can be a bit of the CB radio mentality  (those alive in the 70s will understand). In my opinion, it's all good. If someone wants advice I will try to help. What can get tiring is an attitude of "my beer is the best" though none of us have tried it, and the only evidence is citing some study. Coupled with "your beer sucks" even though they haven't tried it, and based only on a notion that it wasn't brewed according to some study.

After a while it all just sounds like playground "my dad can beat up your dad" nonsense.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dilluh98 on January 10, 2017, 01:32:54 AM
That point was that esters are more easily controlled by being able to control fermentation temps precisely, not an argument about warm vs cold effect on esters.

Yes that's the theory. Just needs some evidence to support it. Without evidence that 60F ferments produce noticeably better/different beer than 70F, it's just another sacred cow spread by the net.

Hence my unpopular opinion that it doesn't take you to the "next level". (No point posting popular opinions on this thread.)

You've talked right past the point of this. Go ferment a generic pale ale and let it swing randomly +/- 10F several times throughout the fermentation and see how you like what you've made. That's the point.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: The Beerery on January 10, 2017, 01:35:58 AM
That point was that esters are more easily controlled by being able to control fermentation temps precisely, not an argument about warm vs cold effect on esters.

Yes that's the theory. Just needs some evidence to support it. Without evidence that 60F ferments produce noticeably better/different beer than 70F, it's just another sacred cow spread by the net.

Hence my unpopular opinion that it doesn't take you to the "next level". (No point posting popular opinions on this thread.)

You've talked right past the point of this. Go ferment a generic pale ale and let it swing randomly +/- 10F several times throughout the fermentation and see how you like what you've made. That's the point.

I think he indirectly did.... I recall him saying he fermented one too warm and got wicked hangovers.....
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 10, 2017, 01:44:58 AM
That point was that esters are more easily controlled by being able to control fermentation temps precisely, not an argument about warm vs cold effect on esters.

Yes that's the theory. Just needs some evidence to support it. Without evidence that 60F ferments produce noticeably better/different beer than 70F, it's just another sacred cow spread by the net.

Hence my unpopular opinion that it doesn't take you to the "next level". (No point posting popular opinions on this thread.)

You've talked right past the point of this. Go ferment a generic pale ale and let it swing randomly +/- 10F several times throughout the fermentation and see how you like what you've made. That's the point.

I think he indirectly did.... I recall him saying he fermented one too warm and got wicked hangovers.....


:)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 10, 2017, 02:04:17 AM
Enter the brilliance of this thread.

Excellent and helpful input as always......
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 10, 2017, 02:09:11 AM
Enter the brilliance of this thread.

Excellent and helpful input as always......
You serious, breh?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 10, 2017, 02:09:58 AM
Enter the brilliance of this thread.

Excellent and helpful input as always......
You serious, breh?
[/quote

Lol, absolutely not. Sarcasm.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 10, 2017, 02:12:57 AM
Enter the brilliance of this thread.

Excellent and helpful input as always......
You serious, breh?
[/quote

Lol, absolutely not. Sarcasm.

Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 10, 2017, 02:16:26 AM
(http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s564/Frank_Mader/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsmj72x9tx.jpeg)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 10, 2017, 03:11:39 AM
My unpopular opinion? One is that open fermentaion is not a bad thing. You need to keep the nasties from floating in, but I have seen so many openfermentaions in Bavaria that I am doing those now (more just not snapping the lid down on the bucket for the major part of fermentaion).
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 10, 2017, 03:36:56 AM
Enter the brilliance of this thread.

Excellent and helpful input as always......
Stop please.  Mods?
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 10, 2017, 03:54:42 AM
So yeah, no way this is popular-  "The Fermonster is awesome."

The plastic is thinner than a 2L Coke bottle and the stopper pops out from the slightest yeast fart.  Also, according to the directions which my dumb ass didn't read until after I bought it, cleaners shouldn't be in contact with it for over 20 minutes.  It's so thin that when I tipped it over to drain the clear the plastic dented under the weight.  All for like $20.  I don't want to criticize a product for the heck of it, so as a side note, it was the first plastic carboy-like vessel I've used.  Maybe I need to learn how to use plastic carboys.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 10, 2017, 03:56:52 AM
My unpopular opinion? One is that open fermentaion is not a bad thing. You need to keep the nasties from floating in, but I have seen so many openfermentaions in Bavaria that I am doing those now (more just not snapping the lid down on the bucket for the major part of fermentaion).
Oh I love doing this. It's so fun. I wish I could do this with lagers too. Otherwise I'd ferment everything this way.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 10, 2017, 04:01:47 AM
My unpopular opinion? One is that open fermentaion is not a bad thing. You need to keep the nasties from floating in, but I have seen so many openfermentaions in Bavaria that I am doing those now (more just not snapping the lid down on the bucket for the major part of fermentaion).
Oh I love doing this. It's so fun. I wish I could do this with lagers too. Otherwise I'd ferment everything this way.
Yorkshire Squares are the best way to ferment
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 10, 2017, 04:03:52 AM
My unpopular opinion? One is that open fermentaion is not a bad thing. You need to keep the nasties from floating in, but I have seen so many openfermentaions in Bavaria that I am doing those now (more just not snapping the lid down on the bucket for the major part of fermentaion).
Oh I love doing this. It's so fun. I wish I could do this with lagers too. Otherwise I'd ferment everything this way.
Yorkshire Squares are the best way to ferment
I've often contemplated brewing that way exclusively. Top crop all yeasts for the fresh, awesome yeast... now I'm craving Sammy Smith!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 10, 2017, 04:11:03 AM
So yeah, no way this is popular-  "The Fermonster is awesome."

The plastic is thinner than a 2L Coke bottle and the stopper pops out from the slightest yeast fart.  Also, according to the directions which my dumb ass didn't read until after I bought it, cleaners shouldn't be in contact with it for over 20 minutes.  It's so thin that when I tipped it over to drain the clear the plastic dented under the weight.  All for like $20.  I don't want to criticize a product for the heck of it, so as a side note, it was the first plastic carboy-like vessel I've used.  Maybe I need to learn how to use plastic carboys.
Really? I've been meaning to buy a couple but just haven't pulled the trigger. I've messed with one in person and the seem as thick as any other plastic fermenter.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 10, 2017, 04:12:40 AM
Obviously from the emojis I've never tried it as I'm too chicken.  I do love Wyeast 1469 so I need to try it.
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 10, 2017, 04:14:59 AM
So yeah, no way this is popular-  "The Fermonster is awesome."

The plastic is thinner than a 2L Coke bottle and the stopper pops out from the slightest yeast fart.  Also, according to the directions which my dumb ass didn't read until after I bought it, cleaners shouldn't be in contact with it for over 20 minutes.  It's so thin that when I tipped it over to drain the clear the plastic dented under the weight.  All for like $20.  I don't want to criticize a product for the heck of it, so as a side note, it was the first plastic carboy-like vessel I've used.  Maybe I need to learn how to use plastic carboys.
Really? I've been meaning to buy a couple but just haven't pulled the trigger. I've messed with one in person and the seem as thick as any other plastic fermenter.
Really thin.  I'm afraid to use it again.

Edit:  I've used it once and I'm afraid the creases will crack open or at least be a place for bacteria to correct.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 10, 2017, 04:24:08 AM
So yeah, no way this is popular-  "The Fermonster is awesome."

The plastic is thinner than a 2L Coke bottle and the stopper pops out from the slightest yeast fart.  Also, according to the directions which my dumb ass didn't read until after I bought it, cleaners shouldn't be in contact with it for over 20 minutes.  It's so thin that when I tipped it over to drain the clear the plastic dented under the weight.  All for like $20.  I don't want to criticize a product for the heck of it, so as a side note, it was the first plastic carboy-like vessel I've used.  Maybe I need to learn how to use plastic carboys.
Really? I've been meaning to buy a couple but just haven't pulled the trigger. I've messed with one in person and the seem as thick as any other plastic fermenter.
Really thin.  I'm afraid to use it again.

Edit:  I've used it once and I'm afraid the creases will crack open or at least be a place for bacteria to correct.
You know I've always been suspect of the ribless design. Better bottles have ribs to make them ridged to prevent flex. I'm happy enough with my better bottles, but they are near six years old at this point and I'd like the larger head room.

I'll certainly inspect more closet next time I'm at the local shop.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 10, 2017, 04:29:38 AM
Yeah I wish I would have went with the better bottle but I tried to save money.  The creases btw were created by lifting and repositioning it and from tipping while cleaning.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: tommymorris on January 10, 2017, 04:47:34 AM
I like my big mouth bubblers except the lids (both types) don't seal.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: coastsidemike on January 10, 2017, 07:01:40 AM
I like my big mouth bubblers except the lids (both types) don't seal.

I use a small bead of food grade silicone, letting it dry before using with lids.  Same function as a gasket. 

Cheers.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 10, 2017, 08:20:14 AM
My unpopular opinion? One is that open fermentaion is not a bad thing. You need to keep the nasties from floating in, but I have seen so many openfermentaions in Bavaria that I am doing those now (more just not snapping the lid down on the bucket for the major part of fermentaion).

It's the norm among homebrewers in the UK. Plastic bucket with lid that isn't airtight. Glass carboys + airlocks for beer is a cultural thing, not a necessity. Might make a good brulosophy experiment.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 10, 2017, 08:31:04 AM

You've talked right past the point of this. Go ferment a generic pale ale and let it swing randomly +/- 10F several times throughout the fermentation and see how you like what you've made. That's the point.

There are 3 or 4 brulosophy experiments that show very different fermentation temperatures have little effect on taste. I'm hoping for one on fluctuating temperature too. In the meantime, I can say from experience that chilling after pitching or raising temp dramatically in late fermentation to attenuate or clear diacetyl don't spoil beer.

I tend not to let the temp go much over 72 F as I worry I'd get fusels. Under that, I suspect temperature is much less important than many people think.

As I said, unpopular opinion. The idea is to let people express them without an argument. 
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 10, 2017, 12:33:34 PM
I like my big mouth bubblers except the lids (both types) don't seal.

I use a small bead of food grade silicone, letting it dry before using with lids.  Same function as a gasket. 

Cheers.
Thanks for the tip! I just realized that this is the solution to "fix" my Mr Beer fermenter to make it air tight.

No matter how long I've been at this, I still get useful information from this site every day :)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 10, 2017, 03:32:48 PM
My unpopular opinion? One is that open fermentaion is not a bad thing. You need to keep the nasties from floating in, but I have seen so many openfermentaions in Bavaria that I am doing those now (more just not snapping the lid down on the bucket for the major part of fermentaion).

It's the norm among homebrewers in the UK. Plastic bucket with lid that isn't airtight. Glass carboys + airlocks for beer is a cultural thing, not a necessity. Might make a good brulosophy experiment.

I have been doing that, or if using a carbon putting foil over the mouth until fermentation subsides.

Lagers were more of me being anal retentive. I have seen open fermentation at many a Bavarian Lager brewery. If any do a wheat beer, those are always open, with a chute for the Braunhefe to flow off the the main krausen.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 10, 2017, 04:12:37 PM
My unpopular opinion? One is that open fermentaion is not a bad thing. You need to keep the nasties from floating in, but I have seen so many openfermentaions in Bavaria that I am doing those now (more just not snapping the lid down on the bucket for the major part of fermentaion).

It's the norm among homebrewers in the UK. Plastic bucket with lid that isn't airtight. Glass carboys + airlocks for beer is a cultural thing, not a necessity. Might make a good brulosophy experiment.

I have been doing that, or if using a carbon putting foil over the mouth until fermentation subsides.

Lagers were more of me being anal retentive. I have seen open fermentation at many a Bavarian Lager brewery. If any do a wheat beer, those are always open, with a chute for the Braunhefe to flow off the the main krausen.
Even open fermentations on lagers, huh? That surprises me.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: The Beerery on January 10, 2017, 04:20:46 PM
My unpopular opinion? One is that open fermentaion is not a bad thing. You need to keep the nasties from floating in, but I have seen so many openfermentaions in Bavaria that I am doing those now (more just not snapping the lid down on the bucket for the major part of fermentaion).

It's the norm among homebrewers in the UK. Plastic bucket with lid that isn't airtight. Glass carboys + airlocks for beer is a cultural thing, not a necessity. Might make a good brulosophy experiment.

I have been doing that, or if using a carbon putting foil over the mouth until fermentation subsides.

Lagers were more of me being anal retentive. I have seen open fermentation at many a Bavarian Lager brewery. If any do a wheat beer, those are always open, with a chute for the Braunhefe to flow off the the main krausen.
Even open fermentations on lagers, huh? That surprises me.

I just can't see to see how its worth it on our scale... I mean commercial absolutely.  Hydrostatic pressures are a real thing.. Even in the shallowest commercial open fermenter, I find it hard to believe that pressure is less than our 5 gallon fermenter.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Visor on January 10, 2017, 04:45:37 PM
   All of my opinions are highly unpopular, so here's one that will certainly qualify as unpopular on this forum. Chasing brewing goals that have no effect on the flavor and drinkability of beer is foolishness. In the dark none of us can tell what color or how clear a beer is, making a big deal out of SRM numbers and beer clarity is needless snobification of a wonderfully enjoyable hobby and product that usually are at their best when they are in their simplest and most elegant state. 
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 10, 2017, 04:53:49 PM
I used to agree 100%, as it was what I read everywhere on the internet. The problem is, the brulosophy experiments just haven't found much of an effect. I still do temp control, I'm just not convinced by all the claims made in its favour any more.

Historically it was a great way to maintain sanitary conditions as cool ferments excluded most bacteria and wild yeasts. Keeping those out meant a cleaner ferment and less funky flavours.

The idea that fermenting warm allows yeast to express it's character better through esters is dubious, I think. I need to see empirical evidence of perceptible effects - anecdotal doesn't sway me any more.

Happy to be proved wrong as it's very easy for me to control fermentation temp with my setup.

You do yourself a disservice by taking the Brulosophy (or Experimental Brewing) experiments to be gospel.  They are simply data points to use to gauge your own perceptions.

Have you ever fermented the same beer say at 60F and 75F?  That will empirically prove to you the ester thing.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 10, 2017, 04:56:15 PM
I second the BS.  While I do agree with the first part of the statement (popular-  label a pale an IPA for marketing) I disagree with the second part.  It is hard to brew a good IPA.  I agree with Martin in that lots of hops can cover up mistakes.  That is also true with roasted grains in a stout covering flaws.  But even though both can hide flaws it is still hard to brew a good one.  I thought my IPAs and stouts were awesome until I acquired a better palate.

Philosophical question...if the mistakes are covered and you can't taste them, they won't have an impact on your perception, right?  So, if you can't perceive them, are they mistakes?  Do they matter?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 10, 2017, 04:58:42 PM
My unpopular opinion? One is that open fermentaion is not a bad thing. You need to keep the nasties from floating in, but I have seen so many openfermentaions in Bavaria that I am doing those now (more just not snapping the lid down on the bucket for the major part of fermentaion).

Jeff, I think that opinion is a lot less unpopular than it used to be.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: narvin on January 10, 2017, 05:43:01 PM
   All of my opinions are highly unpopular, so here's one that will certainly qualify as unpopular on this forum. Chasing brewing goals that have no effect on the flavor and drinkability of beer is foolishness. In the dark none of us can tell what color or how clear a beer is, making a big deal out of SRM numbers and beer clarity is needless snobification of a wonderfully enjoyable hobby and product that usually are at their best when they are in their simplest and most elegant state.

And if you don't drink the beer, the taste has no effect either   ;)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: cdmckinzie on January 10, 2017, 05:45:21 PM
I love beers over 8%, quads, barley wines, stouts. They have more flavor to me. I hate IPAS, no flavor just bitter, except Dogfish Heads 120 I PA, which tastes more like a barley wine than an IPa.
I have brewed some awesome high gravity beers, even a couple with pumpkin. More breweries need to offer
Quads and barley wines, it's so hard to find them.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 10, 2017, 05:48:09 PM
I love beers over 8%, quads, barley wines, stouts. They have more flavor to me. I hate IPAS, no flavor just bitter, except Dogfish Heads 120 I PA, which tastes more like a barley wine than an IPa.
I have brewed some awesome high gravity beers, even a couple with pumpkin. More breweries need to offer
Quads and barley wines, it's so hard to find them.
That's funny - I'm not a fan of DFH 120 because it tastes more like a Barleywine than an IIPA. Their World Wide Stout, though - that is right at the top of my list for big beers.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 10, 2017, 05:52:30 PM
That's funny - I'm not a fan of DFH 120 because it tastes more like a Barleywine than an IIPA. Their World Wide Stout, though - that is right at the top of my list for big beers.


I agree on both. 120 is a lot closer to American Barleywine to me, but World Wide is very nice.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 10, 2017, 05:58:35 PM
My unpopular opinion? One is that open fermentaion is not a bad thing. You need to keep the nasties from floating in, but I have seen so many openfermentaions in Bavaria that I am doing those now (more just not snapping the lid down on the bucket for the major part of fermentaion).

It's the norm among homebrewers in the UK. Plastic bucket with lid that isn't airtight. Glass carboys + airlocks for beer is a cultural thing, not a necessity. Might make a good brulosophy experiment.

I have been doing that, or if using a carbon putting foil over the mouth until fermentation subsides.

Lagers were more of me being anal retentive. I have seen open fermentation at many a Bavarian Lager brewery. If any do a wheat beer, those are always open, with a chute for the Braunhefe to flow off the the main krausen.
Even open fermentations on lagers, huh? That surprises me.

I just can't see to see how its worth it on our scale... I mean commercial absolutely.  Hydrostatic pressures are a real thing.. Even in the shallowest commercial open fermenter, I find it hard to believe that pressure is less than our 5 gallon fermenter.
So fermenting in a keg (tall and narrow vessel) versus a bucket will make a perceptible difference then? I still haven't done any side-by-sides on this.  I certainly do enjoy "open" fermenting though.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: The Beerery on January 10, 2017, 06:20:51 PM
My unpopular opinion? One is that open fermentaion is not a bad thing. You need to keep the nasties from floating in, but I have seen so many openfermentaions in Bavaria that I am doing those now (more just not snapping the lid down on the bucket for the major part of fermentaion).

It's the norm among homebrewers in the UK. Plastic bucket with lid that isn't airtight. Glass carboys + airlocks for beer is a cultural thing, not a necessity. Might make a good brulosophy experiment.

I have been doing that, or if using a carbon putting foil over the mouth until fermentation subsides.

Lagers were more of me being anal retentive. I have seen open fermentation at many a Bavarian Lager brewery. If any do a wheat beer, those are always open, with a chute for the Braunhefe to flow off the the main krausen.
Even open fermentations on lagers, huh? That surprises me.

I just can't see to see how its worth it on our scale... I mean commercial absolutely.  Hydrostatic pressures are a real thing.. Even in the shallowest commercial open fermenter, I find it hard to believe that pressure is less than our 5 gallon fermenter.
So fermenting in a keg (tall and narrow vessel) versus a bucket will make a perceptible difference then? I still haven't done any side-by-sides on this.  I certainly do enjoy "open" fermenting though.
No, I am saying it won't on our scale.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 10, 2017, 06:31:53 PM
My unpopular opinion? One is that open fermentaion is not a bad thing. You need to keep the nasties from floating in, but I have seen so many openfermentaions in Bavaria that I am doing those now (more just not snapping the lid down on the bucket for the major part of fermentaion).

Jeff, I think that opinion is a lot less unpopular than it used to be.
Edit, on second look, I think you're agreeing.

That could be Denny. I will say small traditional family ones do. So did Schönram, a region brewery that is probably about 100k bbl/year, and very modern throuout the brewery.

Ayinger? Hard to tell.

PU is in unitanks. Many of the big industrial Brewers use unitanks.

It may also come down to how the house yeast performs. Maybe just tradition?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 10, 2017, 06:53:22 PM


I just can't see to see how its worth it on our scale... I mean commercial absolutely.  Hydrostatic pressures are a real thing.. Even in the shallowest commercial open fermenter, I find it hard to believe that pressure is less than our 5 gallon fermenter.
So fermenting in a keg (tall and narrow vessel) versus a bucket will make a perceptible difference then? I still haven't done any side-by-sides on this.  I certainly do enjoy "open" fermenting though.
No, I am saying it won't on our scale.
Ah, well that makes sense.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 10, 2017, 07:00:32 PM

I have been doing that, or if using a carbon putting foil over the mouth until fermentation subsides.

Lagers were more of me being anal retentive. I have seen open fermentation at many a Bavarian Lager brewery. If any do a wheat beer, those are always open, with a chute for the Braunhefe to flow off the the main krausen.

Pilsner Urquell is also made in open fermenters.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 10, 2017, 07:12:51 PM
I used to agree 100%, as it was what I read everywhere on the internet. The problem is, the brulosophy experiments just haven't found much of an effect. I still do temp control, I'm just not convinced by all the claims made in its favour any more.

Historically it was a great way to maintain sanitary conditions as cool ferments excluded most bacteria and wild yeasts. Keeping those out meant a cleaner ferment and less funky flavours.

The idea that fermenting warm allows yeast to express it's character better through esters is dubious, I think. I need to see empirical evidence of perceptible effects - anecdotal doesn't sway me any more.

Happy to be proved wrong as it's very easy for me to control fermentation temp with my setup.

You do yourself a disservice by taking the Brulosophy (or Experimental Brewing) experiments to be gospel.  They are simply data points to use to gauge your own perceptions.

Have you ever fermented the same beer say at 60F and 75F?  That will empirically prove to you the ester thing.

I'm not saying they're gospel but they're better than data points. A data point would be one taster's response in a triangle test. A test involves many data points. When three taste tests make the same statistically significant finding about temperature, you have good evidence (but still not proof, which is unattainable). I trust that more than anecdotal subjective reports. If we rated subjective reports over significance tests, the world would be quite a different place.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 10, 2017, 07:14:46 PM
We dont?

Edit- I forget, you don't live in the US. Sorry
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: smeiners on January 10, 2017, 07:44:15 PM
Negative comments about my beers at brew club meeting because they are not IPAs, sours, fruit or any other molested style of brew. Comments are like: "good but not hoppy enough", "good but I like more funk." WTF is FUNK?
Feeling like an oddball, I quit going. Why can't people appreciate a good regular beer anymore?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 10, 2017, 07:56:53 PM
Negative comments about my beers at brew club meeting because they are not IPAs, sours, fruit or any other molested style of brew. Comments are like: "good but not hoppy enough", "good but I like more funk." WTF is FUNK?
Feeling like an oddball, I quit going. Why can't people appreciate a good regular beer anymore?
Regular beer? Like out the grocery store?

Ya, I have no clubs in my area. I have imaginary arguments instead.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: wayneslucky on January 10, 2017, 07:59:56 PM
Hearing people say that they can always tell when a beer was brewed with extract. If you pretty well know what you are doing and use fresh DME, and not LME, along with fresh steeping grains... virtually nobody will be able to tell that you used extract. One proof to this is that plenty of extract brewed beers win competitions.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: smeiners on January 10, 2017, 08:06:06 PM
Negative comments about my beers at brew club meeting because they are not IPAs, sours, fruit or any other molested style of brew. Comments are like: "good but not hoppy enough", "good but I like more funk." WTF is FUNK?
Feeling like an oddball, I quit going. Why can't people appreciate a good regular beer anymore?
Regular beer? Like out the grocery store?

Ya, I have no clubs in my area. I have imaginary arguments instead.
Like Wheats, Ales, Ambers, Bocks and Stouts WITHOUT adding fruit, veggies or a ton of hops. IDK, maybe I'm just a grumpy old man but I is what I is.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 10, 2017, 08:07:02 PM
Negative comments about my beers at brew club meeting because they are not IPAs, sours, fruit or any other molested style of brew. Comments are like: "good but not hoppy enough", "good but I like more funk." WTF is FUNK?
Feeling like an oddball, I quit going. Why can't people appreciate a good regular beer anymore?
Regular beer? Like out the grocery store?

Ya, I have no clubs in my area. I have imaginary arguments instead.
Like Wheats, Ales, Ambers, Bocks and Stouts WITHOUT adding fruit, veggies or a ton of hops. IDK, maybe I'm just a grumpy old man but I is what I is.

I prefer beer flavored beer.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 10, 2017, 08:14:39 PM
I prefer beer flavored beer.


^^ For sure.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Shaky6 on January 10, 2017, 08:22:59 PM
My unpopular brewing opinion is that I like bmc's just as much as craft brew.  I think nothing of drinking a keyster while brewing an double IPA.  I'm not a beer snob, I enjoy the high points of all beers, and I don't dog folks who drink bmc's. 
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 10, 2017, 08:26:57 PM
My unpopular brewing opinion is that I like bmc's just as much as craft brew.  I think nothing of drinking a keyster while brewing an double IPA.  I'm not a beer snob, I enjoy the high points of all beers, and I don't dog folks who drink bmc's.

^^This.

If I'm on vacation and I can choose between a fresh can of Budweiser or some craft beer that they've had on tap for months, I'll go with Bud every time. Does that mean I drink it regularly? No, but you have to admire and applaud their consistency. Whether I'm in my hometown, Disney World, on a cruise, etc, a Bud tastes like a Bud.

Cue AB jokes...
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 10, 2017, 08:35:42 PM
My unpopular brewing opinion is that I like bmc's just as much as craft brew.  I think nothing of drinking a keyster while brewing an double IPA.  I'm not a beer snob, I enjoy the high points of all beers, and I don't dog folks who drink bmc's.

While I don't enjoy NAILs, I learned long ago not to judge people based on what they like to drink.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: udubdawg on January 10, 2017, 08:55:24 PM
Negative comments about my beers at brew club meeting because they are not IPAs, sours, fruit or any other molested style of brew. Comments are like: "good but not hoppy enough", "good but I like more funk." WTF is FUNK?
Feeling like an oddball, I quit going. Why can't people appreciate a good regular beer anymore?

I used to get that a lot.  "This imperial stout is nice but why don't you oak age it?  why no bourbon?"

it's my damn beer. I make what I like.  And I'm extremely familiar with the beers they are trying to get me to emulate, and they are all fricking bourbon bombs.

/rant
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 10, 2017, 08:58:02 PM
My unpopular brewing opinion is that I like bmc's just as much as craft brew.  I think nothing of drinking a keyster while brewing an double IPA.  I'm not a beer snob, I enjoy the high points of all beers, and I don't dog folks who drink bmc's.

I can respect that.

I love Gordon Biersch... I love it so much that I'll even drive out of my way for some.  I cannot say I'd do the same kind of thing for any BMC, but I sure as heck love fresh lagers, more than just about anything.  Nothing too fancy.  I prefer the helles.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: ynotbrusum on January 10, 2017, 08:58:11 PM
My unpopular brewing opinion is that I like bmc's just as much as craft brew.  I think nothing of drinking a keyster while brewing an double IPA.  I'm not a beer snob, I enjoy the high points of all beers, and I don't dog folks who drink bmc's.

While I don't enjoy NAILs, I learned long ago not to judge people based on what they like to drink.

Amen.  One likes what one likes, my only issue is with anyone who will not try something new!  Like saying "I don't like vegetables"...really, all vegetables regardless of how they are presented????  How can you know, if you haven't tried them served a new way?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 10, 2017, 09:02:10 PM
I second the BS.  While I do agree with the first part of the statement (popular-  label a pale an IPA for marketing) I disagree with the second part.  It is hard to brew a good IPA.  I agree with Martin in that lots of hops can cover up mistakes.  That is also true with roasted grains in a stout covering flaws.  But even though both can hide flaws it is still hard to brew a good one.  I thought my IPAs and stouts were awesome until I acquired a better palate.

Philosophical question...if the mistakes are covered and you can't taste them, they won't have an impact on your perception, right?  So, if you can't perceive them, are they mistakes?  Do they matter?
I can remember some beers that in hindsight had flaws that I couldn't perceive at the time.  I'm sure other could taste the flaws a well.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dilluh98 on January 10, 2017, 09:03:31 PM
I love Gordon Biersch... I love it so much that I'll even drive out of my way for some.  I cannot say I'd do the same kind of thing for any BMC, but I sure as heck love fresh lagers, more than just about anything.  Nothing too fancy.  I prefer the helles.

Yup. If they have an airport restaurant/bar thing, I always go there. Honestly, their lagers are better than 90% of the craft lagers in my area.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: elsierush on January 10, 2017, 09:21:26 PM
I think beer should be clear not cloudy except for the established styles like hefs and wits. The trend for cloudy hoppy PAs is just skipping on finish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 10, 2017, 09:28:26 PM

I have been doing that, or if using a carbon putting foil over the mouth until fermentation subsides.

Lagers were more of me being anal retentive. I have seen open fermentation at many a Bavarian Lager brewery. If any do a wheat beer, those are always open, with a chute for the Braunhefe to flow off the the main krausen.

Pilsner Urquell is also made in open fermenters.
The unfiltered unpasteurized is, had that in the cellars last Sept. maybe the best beer ever for me.

The guide said they are in SS now. Found this.
http://www.langdale-associates.com/czecho_2009/part_1/pivo_brew.htm
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: RC on January 10, 2017, 09:56:12 PM
I used to agree 100%, as it was what I read everywhere on the internet. The problem is, the brulosophy experiments just haven't found much of an effect. I still do temp control, I'm just not convinced by all the claims made in its favour any more.

Historically it was a great way to maintain sanitary conditions as cool ferments excluded most bacteria and wild yeasts. Keeping those out meant a cleaner ferment and less funky flavours.

The idea that fermenting warm allows yeast to express it's character better through esters is dubious, I think. I need to see empirical evidence of perceptible effects - anecdotal doesn't sway me any more.

Happy to be proved wrong as it's very easy for me to control fermentation temp with my setup.

You do yourself a disservice by taking the Brulosophy (or Experimental Brewing) experiments to be gospel.  They are simply data points to use to gauge your own perceptions.

Have you ever fermented the same beer say at 60F and 75F?  That will empirically prove to you the ester thing.

I'm not saying they're gospel but they're better than data points.

Well said, charles1968. IMHO, the Brulosophy xBMTs definitely qualify as scientific experiments.

The results of any single experiment should be viewed as informative but also subject to rejection or revision upon future experiments. If the results of additional studies continue to support a hypothesis, confidence in that hypothesis grows to the point where it is deemed a real, predictable truth about nature, human or otherwise.

I have tried (and subsequently adopted) many of the brewing practices described on Brulosophy, and I've always gotten similar results. Thus, my confidence that xBMT results accurately reflect certain truths about homebrewing is pretty high. Not gospel-high, but definitely more than single-study-high.

That said, P values should be taken with a grain of salt. Consider that the taste perception of a single person can move the P-value needle from <0.05 ("x affects y") to >0.05 ("x does not affect y"). P value is really just a measure of sample size. Effect size is more important.

An unrelated, unpopular opinion: sanitation is important but not really, as long as the yeast are happy and your equipment is surface-clean. Happy yeast + surface-clean = good beer, regardless of how microbiologically clean or unclean your equipment is. (And seriously, unless you brew in an operating room in a hospital, I guarantee your equipment and brewing environment is, microbiologically speaking, a sewer of microbes.)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: EnkAMania on January 10, 2017, 10:02:10 PM
Aerating wort with pure oxygen is unnecessary.   
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: brewsumore on January 10, 2017, 10:34:26 PM
Aerating wort with pure oxygen is unnecessary.

But it is quick, easy and very effective.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 10, 2017, 10:40:42 PM
We dont?

Edit- I forget, you don't live in the US. Sorry

Still a bit of a candle in the dark here. I think most people have finally accepted that Earth rotates and the Sun is in the middle, but evolution has a long way to go yet.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 10, 2017, 10:43:52 PM
On my next brew day I am going to skip the starters. I went through the typical progression. Dry, dry hydrated, smack pack, stirplate starters, and finally landed on oxygenated 1L starters pitched in exponential phase. I am curious if a smacked and expanded smack pack into well oxygenated wort will show enough difference to justify continuing with starters. It would not surprise me if I notice no appreciable difference given that Wyeast claims they are a pitchable amount for ~5 gallons. 6 gallons in my case...

And they will be lagers, so a good true test.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 10, 2017, 10:46:56 PM
On my next brew day I am going to skip the starters. I went through the typical progression. Dry, dry hydrated, smack pack, stirplate starters, and finally landed on oxygenated 1L starters pitched in exponential phase. I am curious if a smacked and expanded smack pack into well oxygenated wort will show enough difference to justify continuing with starters. It would not surprise me if I notice no appreciable difference given that Wyeast claims they are a pitchable amount for ~5 gallons. 6 gallons in my case...

And they will be lagers, so a good true test.

This is risky, of course, for 6 gallons of lager.  I wouldn't worry with an ale, but a lager...... but oh well, knock yourself out, maybe you'll learn stuff.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 10, 2017, 10:50:32 PM
That said, P values should be taken with a grain of salt. Consider that the taste perception of a single person can move the P-value needle from <0.05 ("x affects y") to >0.05 ("x does not affect y"). P value is really just a measure of sample size. Effect size is more important.

Significance tests aren't flawless. Because of the way the stats work, small sample sizes favour the null hypothesis. So I'm always suspicious of the exbeeriments with a small tasting panel that can't spot the odd one out - especially when the author can.

Still, a tasting panel of ten people is better than a panel of one, which is the basis of most anecdotal claims.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 10, 2017, 10:57:01 PM
On my next brew day I am going to skip the starters. I went through the typical progression. Dry, dry hydrated, smack pack, stirplate starters, and finally landed on oxygenated 1L starters pitched in exponential phase. I am curious if a smacked and expanded smack pack into well oxygenated wort will show enough difference to justify continuing with starters. It would not surprise me if I notice no appreciable difference given that Wyeast claims they are a pitchable amount for ~5 gallons. 6 gallons in my case...

And they will be lagers, so a good true test.

This is risky, of course, for 6 gallons of lager.  I wouldn't worry with an ale, but a lager...... but oh well, knock yourself out, maybe you'll learn stuff.
I hear ya. But I've been told by a multitude that one smack pack into 1L of oxygenated starters, pitched 8-12 hrs later would absolutely not ever work. But it does. Highest scoring beer I've made yet. In fact today I started cold crashing two lagers brewed that way 13 days ago. Hit FFG and passed forced diacetyl test in less than two weeks.

So all I am doing is deleting the step. We shall see. If it works I will own the most unpopular opinion around.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 10, 2017, 11:05:52 PM
Here's another mind blow... on these latest lagers, at day 4 (50% ADF) I usually start ramping up 6° per day. They were at 50f and in my poorly lit garage I hit the wrong arrow 6 times. I went out the next day, with better lighting, and found that I had actually dropped the temp to 44F. So I said WTF and bumped it up 12°. I would not recommend dropping your lagers 6° on day 4, but it seemingly did not effect the beers at all.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 10, 2017, 11:09:10 PM
That said, P values should be taken with a grain of salt. Consider that the taste perception of a single person can move the P-value needle from <0.05 ("x affects y") to >0.05 ("x does not affect y"). P value is really just a measure of sample size. Effect size is more important.

Significance tests aren't flawless. Because of the way the stats work, small sample sizes favour the null hypothesis. So I'm always suspicious of the exbeeriments with a small tasting panel that can't spot the odd one out - especially when the author can.

Still, a tasting panel of ten people is better than a panel of one, which is the basis of most anecdotal claims.

I use Brulosophy's data to develop my own conclusions assuming p<0.15 instead of 0.05.  Amazing what comes out as likely "significant" if you assume they only need to be in the right ballpark 85% of the time instead of 95%.  They're not fancy enough to use p=0.05.  Either that, or I'm a complete idiot.  I do, however, know how to calculate square roots by hand the "long division" way.  ;)
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 10, 2017, 11:12:30 PM
I've been told by a multitude that one smack pack into 1L of oxygenated starters, pitched 8-12 hrs later would absolutely not ever work. But it does. Highest scoring beer I've made yet. In fact today I started cold crashing two lagers brewed that way 13 days ago. Hit FFG and passed forced diacetyl test in less than two weeks.

Yeah but was that a lager, or an ale?  What style?  I do think many ales actually benefit from an underpitch.  Lagers, not so much.

EDIT: Oh, it looks like those were lagers.  Hmm.  Maybe just getting lucky.  Luck has a tendency of running out eventually.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 10, 2017, 11:22:27 PM
German Helles Exportbier and I've been getting lucky for about 10 batches over two years

I would not count on good results doing this in aerated wort. I oxygenate heavily.

By the way, I'm on your side. But I think there are areas where we just continue regurgitating what some "expert" said... concensus doesn't make things true

Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: narvin on January 10, 2017, 11:27:48 PM
German Helles Exportbier and I've been getting lucky for about 10 batches over two years


By the way, I'm on your side. But I think there are areas where we just continue regurgitating what some "expert" said... concensus doesn't make things true

That's true.  But I think we also collectively made the same mistakes as beginners.  So many people with experience agree that there is something to pitching rates and fermentation temperature.  Are there workarounds?  Of course, and that's why many people have been successful with smaller starters pitched at krausen.  But in other cases the easiest repeatable way to do it has become the best practice, which is why most people chill before pitching instead of after.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 10, 2017, 11:34:41 PM
To be clear, I really only care about my beer. I'm not trying to start a movement. I'm just curious and if I prove I need my 1L starters then cool. If I prove I don't, then that's cool too.

I mean prove to me. There's no way to prove anything here...
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 10, 2017, 11:36:41 PM
That's true.  But I think we also collectively made the same mistakes as beginners.  So many people with experience agree that there is something to pitching rates and fermentation temperature.  Are there workarounds?  Of course, and that's why many people have been successful with smaller starters pitched at krausen.  But in other cases the easiest repeatable way to do it has become the best practice, which is why most people chill before pitching instead of after.



Yeah, I agree. I've always liked to test the boundaries of conventional wisdom, but there are a few key points that are hard to argue with. Having brewed a lot of lagers (more every year), it seems just damn near impossible to overpitch with any bad outcome, but easier to underpitch with negative outcomes. Having said that, I've made lagers with less yeast than I pitch now. I just like my current ones better.


Edit -  Jim, wasn't trying to be critical at all. No harm in trying it or anything else for that matter.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Phil_M on January 10, 2017, 11:38:16 PM
Here's another one, and it ties into the "regular beer" theme: Yeungling should be considered "Craft" by Brewer's Association standards. Seems the reason it is not is that the Brewer's Association has some sort of max adjunct requirement, and the corn in Yeungling is what gets them.

Many of the original beers we seek to emulate also feature a great deal of adjuncts, from sugar to yes, even corn. Why should corn be any different from candi sugar?
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 10, 2017, 11:45:35 PM
Here's another one, and it ties into the "regular beer" theme: Yeungling should be considered "Craft" by Brewer's Association standards. Seems the reason it is not is that the Brewer's Association has some sort of max adjunct requirement, and the corn in Yeungling is what gets them.

Many of the original beers we seek to emulate also feature a great deal of adjuncts, from sugar to yes, even corn. Why should corn be any different from candi sugar?
How about "craft" as a label is a useless and dumb.

And Yeungling sucks. ;)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 11, 2017, 12:07:12 AM
That said, P values should be taken with a grain of salt. Consider that the taste perception of a single person can move the P-value needle from <0.05 ("x affects y") to >0.05 ("x does not affect y"). P value is really just a measure of sample size. Effect size is more important.

Significance tests aren't flawless. Because of the way the stats work, small sample sizes favour the null hypothesis. So I'm always suspicious of the exbeeriments with a small tasting panel that can't spot the odd one out - especially when the author can.

Still, a tasting panel of ten people is better than a panel of one, which is the basis of most anecdotal claims.

I use Brulosophy's data to develop my own conclusions assuming p<0.15 instead of 0.05.  Amazing what comes out as likely "significant" if you assume they only need to be in the right ballpark 85% of the time instead of 95%.  They're not fancy enough to use p=0.05.  Either that, or I'm a complete idiot.  I do, however, know how to calculate square roots by hand the "long division" way.  ;)

Flip side is a higher rate of false positives at higher p.

I can't remember how to do long division but I can still walk on my hands.   8)

Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: narvin on January 11, 2017, 12:10:37 AM
To be clear, I really only care about my beer. I'm not trying to start a movement. I'm just curious and if I prove I need my 1L starters then cool. If I prove I don't, then that's cool too.

I mean prove to me. There's no way to prove anything here...

Hey, if it turns out well, let us know. 
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: charles1968 on January 11, 2017, 12:12:38 AM
Here's another one, and it ties into the "regular beer" theme: Yeungling should be considered "Craft" by Brewer's Association standards. Seems the reason it is not is that the Brewer's Association has some sort of max adjunct requirement, and the corn in Yeungling is what gets them.

Many of the original beers we seek to emulate also feature a great deal of adjuncts, from sugar to yes, even corn. Why should corn be any different from candi sugar?

I was going to say corn is good. Currently experimenting with it in lagers - 16% quick-cook polenta in my current batch. It adds an interesting sweetish flavour that reminds me of Mexican & Italian lagers. Even 1% seems to have an effect. I think it could pair well with sweet scented hops like citra.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 11, 2017, 12:34:13 AM
Yeah, corn gets a bad rap. I like it in CAP, cream ale, and even in nonspecific American lagers. Unlike rice, there's at least some sweetness and character there.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dscheil on January 11, 2017, 01:50:17 AM
Hops = BBBOOOOOORRRRRRIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGG!

Much more interesting flavors come from grains and yeast.  Hops just hide the interesting stuff.

(There!  Unpopular enough?  ;))
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Phil_M on January 11, 2017, 02:38:05 AM
Here's another one, and it ties into the "regular beer" theme: Yeungling should be considered "Craft" by Brewer's Association standards. Seems the reason it is not is that the Brewer's Association has some sort of max adjunct requirement, and the corn in Yeungling is what gets them.

Many of the original beers we seek to emulate also feature a great deal of adjuncts, from sugar to yes, even corn. Why should corn be any different from candi sugar?
How about "craft" as a label is a useless and dumb.

And Yeungling sucks. ;)

Honestly, it's really common to find stale packs...though you're still entitled to your opinion. (But can you name a better cheap beer?)

Also, they need to lose the green bottles...
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 11, 2017, 02:40:54 AM
Yeah, corn gets a bad rap. I like it in CAP, cream ale, and even in nonspecific American lagers. Unlike rice, there's at least some sweetness and character there.
I've only started using corn in the past year or two, and I must say that I like what it brings in certain recipes. I find myself reaching for it more often lately.

I might just try it in an IPA sometime soon.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 11, 2017, 02:41:26 AM
Here's another one, and it ties into the "regular beer" theme: Yeungling should be considered "Craft" by Brewer's Association standards. Seems the reason it is not is that the Brewer's Association has some sort of max adjunct requirement, and the corn in Yeungling is what gets them.

Many of the original beers we seek to emulate also feature a great deal of adjuncts, from sugar to yes, even corn. Why should corn be any different from candi sugar?
How about "craft" as a label is a useless and dumb.

And Yeungling sucks. ;)

Honestly, it's really common to find stale packs...though you're still entitled to your opinion. (But can you name a better cheap beer?)

Also, they need to lose the green bottles...
I was just bustin' your chops. I don't mind it, but I also don't understand why it has such a massive following.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: Phil_M on January 11, 2017, 02:52:54 AM
Here's another one, and it ties into the "regular beer" theme: Yeungling should be considered "Craft" by Brewer's Association standards. Seems the reason it is not is that the Brewer's Association has some sort of max adjunct requirement, and the corn in Yeungling is what gets them.

Many of the original beers we seek to emulate also feature a great deal of adjuncts, from sugar to yes, even corn. Why should corn be any different from candi sugar?
How about "craft" as a label is a useless and dumb.

And Yeungling sucks. ;)

Honestly, it's really common to find stale packs...though you're still entitled to your opinion. (But can you name a better cheap beer?)

Also, they need to lose the green bottles...
I was just bustin' your chops. I don't mind it, but I also don't understand why it has such a massive following.

A 12-pack is $15, sometimes less. No, it's not the greatest beer in the world, but for the price it's hard to beat. I really wish that craft brewers would take notice and just make some simple, easy drinking pale ale at a reasonable price point. $11+ a six pack for a session beer is nuts.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 11, 2017, 02:53:20 AM
Here's another one, and it ties into the "regular beer" theme: Yeungling should be considered "Craft" by Brewer's Association standards. Seems the reason it is not is that the Brewer's Association has some sort of max adjunct requirement, and the corn in Yeungling is what gets them.

Many of the original beers we seek to emulate also feature a great deal of adjuncts, from sugar to yes, even corn. Why should corn be any different from candi sugar?
The rules changed a few years back. They now are. The BA has a definition for craft breweries, not craft beer.
https://www.brewersassociation.org/press-releases/brewers-association-lists-top-50-breweries-2015/

As one who likes to brew CAPs, Cream Ales, and things like Ballantines IPA clones, corn can be an integral part of those beers.

I have had some good luck using flaked rice in IPAs to lighten the body with minimal taste addition.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 11, 2017, 03:05:07 AM
A 12-pack is $15, sometimes less. No, it's not the greatest beer in the world, but for the price it's hard to beat. I really wish that craft brewers would take notice and just make some simple, easy drinking pale ale at a reasonable price point. $11+ a six pack for a session beer is nuts.
When I lived in Dallas, 12 packs of Sierra were $13 at Central Market. That was pretty great.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: johnaitchison on January 11, 2017, 04:38:51 AM
Decoctions do matter.  If you're using a Czech or German malt, you can taste the difference.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: gbleske on January 11, 2017, 05:49:53 AM
Sour beer is just beer gone bad

Barrel aged beers are not beer

6 percent ABV is almost too high

No beer should taste like banana, pumpkin, or coriander

Cask ale in UK is the best beer in the world

Belgian beer is over rated

Do not worry about clarity of your home brew

Measuring final gravity is not necessary



Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Phil_M on January 11, 2017, 11:51:39 AM

Cask ale in UK is the best beer in the world


While I don't think this is an unpopular opinion, I do with that cask ale was more popular.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: oogiewawa on January 11, 2017, 12:20:13 PM
Balance.  Not everything has to be an assault on the senses.   :o  Somewhere that got lost.  "Clean" is gone.  Sad.

I don't like beers that taste like licking the inside of a hop bag.

Most beers should not be "chewey."

Very few kinds of beer should be cloudy; generally non-wheat beer should be brilliant.  Take the time to do it right, let it really finish, fine it, cold condition it.  Having said that, filtering is unnecessary most of the time; you CAN have it both ways.  Flocculation and technique are your friend.

Life begins at 1.080 in my brewery!  (But see first item.)

It's OK to like most any beer if it tastes good to you at the time; it's just fine to have a Bud Light with friends at a wedding, it's great to have a PBR when you feel like it.

There's a reason some now-neglected styles have survived for centuries, and when this over-stimulated era is over they will return to their former place of respect; some day people will grow up.

If it isn't a Belgian fruit beer, leave the fruit out of it, please.  And most everything else, for that matter.  GOOD exceptions are cool, but unfortunately also very rare.

Unless you intend to make a brown ale, leave the brown malt out.  Otherwise whatever you make will taste like brown malt, patoooie!  Same with Special B; if there's over two ounces in there, it takes over.  Roasted is fine, burned is not.

And the best part about homebrewing actually isn't the beer at all, it's the wonderful folks you meet, making friends and helping the noobs that makes it one of the best hobbies ever!  Well, OK, maybe it is the beer, but they are both up there!!!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: swampale on January 11, 2017, 12:39:13 PM
I don't like sour or brett beers at all. I am still an old school brewer ( since 1979 ). I only brew stouts, porters, bitters, etc. I live in Canada and 12 packs of Craft beer are around $26.00. Six packs are around $14.00. That is the #1 reason I homebrew. #2 is I love to brew beer.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 11, 2017, 01:03:01 PM
A 12-pack is $15, sometimes less. No, it's not the greatest beer in the world, but for the price it's hard to beat. I really wish that craft brewers would take notice and just make some simple, easy drinking pale ale at a reasonable price point. $11+ a six pack for a session beer is nuts.


I agree on all points. Yuengling is a solid cheap beer - beats the hell out of BMC on any day. The prices of craft beer are getting pretty silly, especially on session beers.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: JohnnyC on January 11, 2017, 02:23:04 PM
It's just beer.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: riceral on January 11, 2017, 03:04:53 PM

Belgian beer is over rated


Blasphemy!


No beer should taste like banana, pumpkin, or coriander


Amen

Unless you intend to make a brown ale, leave the brown malt out.  Otherwise whatever you make will taste like brown malt, patoooie!  Same with Special B; if there's over two ounces in there, it takes over.  Roasted is fine, burned is not.


I don't think you can make a decent porter without brown malt. Now if you consider porter as a variant of brown ale.... But I don't think many people would.

Just my opinions.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: TonyDanza on January 11, 2017, 03:35:49 PM
I like to pitch my yeast starter into the empty carboy and then drop the wort in on top of it. I think it mixes everything a little more, aerates everything a little more, and makes the end of the brewing process that much faster. It drives my wife crazy though.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: narvin on January 11, 2017, 04:19:50 PM
So, my (currently) unpopular opinion is that copper is necessary for the production of traditional Belgian beers  ;)

https://www.facebook.com/FlemishFox/posts/1676541609038254
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 11, 2017, 04:45:57 PM
So, my (currently) unpopular opinion is that copper is necessary for the production of traditional Belgian beers  ;)

https://www.facebook.com/FlemishFox/posts/1676541609038254

If it is, I'm wondering what the driver is. What is it contributing?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Sean on January 11, 2017, 04:46:56 PM
I really hate wheat beer. No matter how much fruit you put in it, it is still undrinkable.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 11, 2017, 05:13:09 PM
So, my (currently) unpopular opinion is that copper is necessary for the production of traditional Belgian beers  ;)

https://www.facebook.com/FlemishFox/posts/1676541609038254

If it is, I'm wondering what the driver is. What is it contributing?

Oxidation....;)
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 11, 2017, 06:20:29 PM
So, my (currently) unpopular opinion is that copper is necessary for the production of traditional Belgian beers  ;)

https://www.facebook.com/FlemishFox/posts/1676541609038254

If it is, I'm wondering what the driver is. What is it contributing?

Oxidation....;)
This may be less stupid than it sounds. There may be some kind of beneficial interaction between oxidative processes and phenolics produced by Belgian yeasts. Think quads and lambics.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 11, 2017, 06:26:44 PM
So, my (currently) unpopular opinion is that copper is necessary for the production of traditional Belgian beers  ;)

https://www.facebook.com/FlemishFox/posts/1676541609038254

If it is, I'm wondering what the driver is. What is it contributing?

Oxidation....;)
This may be less stupid than it sounds. There may be some kind of beneficial interaction between oxidative processes and phenolics produced by Belgian yeasts. Think quads and lambics.
Mitch Steele stated in one of his talks that a Stone beer fermented with a Belgian yeast had a much longer shelf life for hop character than the house yeast. I think you are on the right track.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 11, 2017, 06:30:01 PM
Try a 25 year old lambic and you will know what I mean. It's not for everyone, but I find it fantastic.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 11, 2017, 06:34:21 PM
There may be some kind of beneficial interaction between oxidative processes and phenolics produced by Belgian yeasts. Think quads and lambics.


Agreed with Jeff. This seems pretty plausible. After all, Belgian beers are known to be pretty good.   ;)


Edit -  Jeff, hadn't heard that from Mitch. Pretty interesting.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: noiz2 on January 11, 2017, 06:38:21 PM
Unpopular...

Except in the summer I keep my kegs at basement temp and drink my beer at that temp ~60 or so.  In the summer I will chill some down, especially low gravity thirst quenchers.

And not sure how unpopular it is but I just don't bottle.  I have and if I want to send someone a beer I will still on occasion bottle a few but as a rule I just don't ever bottle.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 11, 2017, 06:40:33 PM
I'm trying to work through some equipment issues so I can start a Low Oxygen Monastic run. Basically a table beer, Dubbel, Tripel and DS. So I'll have some notes before long as I apply some of my ideas.

I've noticed some of the hallmark malt flavors you get with Low Oxygen in the paler Trappists, like Chimay Cinq Cents, so it's difficult to say what's what.

I've always preferred the flavor of the 33cl Trappists to the 75cl corked bottles. No doubt you get some "breathing" in the big bottles.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 11, 2017, 06:42:05 PM
There may be some kind of beneficial interaction between oxidative processes and phenolics produced by Belgian yeasts. Think quads and lambics.


Agreed with Jeff. This seems pretty plausible. After all, Belgian beers are known to be pretty good.   ;)


Edit -  Jeff, hadn't heard that from Mitch. Pretty interesting.
I've heard that from Mitch before, but it was regarding their Brett IPA, specifically. I assumed that it was the Brett providing oxygen scavenging over the long term.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: The Beerery on January 11, 2017, 06:43:22 PM
There may be some kind of beneficial interaction between oxidative processes and phenolics produced by Belgian yeasts. Think quads and lambics.


Agreed with Jeff. This seems pretty plausible. After all, Belgian beers are known to be pretty good.   ;)


Edit -  Jeff, hadn't heard that from Mitch. Pretty interesting.

Hrmm. They follow declerck religiously. Declerck was very aware of oxidation and to avoid it.  I dont know it's that simple.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 11, 2017, 06:54:45 PM
There may be some kind of beneficial interaction between oxidative processes and phenolics produced by Belgian yeasts. Think quads and lambics.


Agreed with Jeff. This seems pretty plausible. After all, Belgian beers are known to be pretty good.   ;)


Edit -  Jeff, hadn't heard that from Mitch. Pretty interesting.
I've heard that from Mitch before, but it was regarding their Brett IPA, specifically. I assumed that it was the Brett providing oxygen scavenging over the long term.
Yeah, maybe it was Brett in the IPA.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 11, 2017, 06:55:07 PM

Oxidation....;)
[/quote]
This may be less stupid than it sounds. There may be some kind of beneficial interaction between oxidative processes and phenolics produced by Belgian yeasts. Think quads and lambics.
[/quote]

Stupid?  Well, thanks!  ;)  Actually, I was being serious.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 11, 2017, 07:07:27 PM
I know that but I didn't want to encourage you. ;) and as I'm writing this I'm enjoying an excellent lodo Roach Four, if i say so myself.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: robertj235 on January 11, 2017, 09:27:40 PM
As sacrilegious as it may sound, I’m not a fan of Hoppy, Super Hoppy, or Overly Hoppy IPA’s.  I’ve been spending my brew time working on a classic Pale Ale.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: rdgall12 on January 11, 2017, 09:30:25 PM
Being a purist
Beer should only be carbonated by it's own yeast.
FALSELY not forced carbonated brews are against real ale religion and are not Real Ale.
Nitro is blasphemy.
On the other hand, when pushing product everything goes out the window.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 11, 2017, 10:04:06 PM
Being a purist
Beer should only be carbonated by it's own yeast.
FALSELY not forced carbonated brews are against real ale religion and are not Real Ale.
Nitro is blasphemy.
On the other hand, when pushing product everything goes out the window.

I can totally respect this stance, even if I don't entirely agree with it.  In many but not all regards, both beer-related and not, I have puristic tendencies, and don't appreciate a lot of distracting items, with exception for sugar and fat... I love sugar and fat.  Won't be dieting anytime soon, even if it kills me first.  But I don't want any nuts in my chocolate or fudge, thank you very much.  No extra flavorings.  No berries on top of my cheesecake, I just like to eat it plain.  However I'll take some real whipped cream on top, thank you.  No Cool-Whip!  I'll have a teaspoon of sugar in my coffee.  Cream is fine but not necessary.  Non-dairy creamer is right-out!  And with respect to beers, yes, simplicity is usually best.  Maybe not in every case, but usually.  Oh wait, now here's one unpopular opinion!:

Beer-food pairings.  What a bunch of malarky.  When I drink beer, I only want the beer.  Get that food away from me.  I'll eat later.  And the reverse is true as well.  If I'm eating, I'll have a glass of milk or water or something.  I'll have a beer later.

I don't believe that's a very popular one.  But it's very true for me.  One thing at a time is all I want.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Steve Ruch on January 11, 2017, 10:11:27 PM
As sacrilegious as it may sound, I’m not a fan of Hoppy, Super Hoppy, or Overly Hoppy IPA’s.  I’ve been spending my brew time working on a classic Pale Ale.

A well balanced Pale Ale is a thing of beauty.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: 4himarks on January 11, 2017, 10:25:31 PM
If you want coffee flavor in your beer, really any coffee is fine, including instant. You're not going to notice enough of a difference with the amount you put in 5 gallons. If you do, you have beer flavored, alcoholic coffee.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: mjnmedia on January 11, 2017, 11:06:03 PM
GMO

GMO will open up options in brewing that would never have been thought possible.

Combining the best of ale and lager into one yeast. Clove only hefeweizen yeasts. Non gummy rye malts. High yield, resilient Saaz. That's just off the top of my head.

GMO can be the most innovative thing to happen to beer in a thousand years.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 11, 2017, 11:15:17 PM
GMO

GMO will open up options in brewing that would never have been thought possible.

Combining the best of ale and lager into one yeast. Clove only hefeweizen yeasts. Non gummy rye malts. High yield, resilient Saaz. That's just off the top of my head.

GMO can be the most innovative thing to happen to beer in a thousand years.

I wonder if we'll ever isolate ever single flavor hops have to offer and then be able to completely customize hop profile in beer. I know many large breweries are already using hop products post production that add bitterness more effectively.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 11, 2017, 11:16:01 PM
Being a purist
Beer should only be carbonated by it's own yeast.
FALSELY not forced carbonated brews are against real ale religion and are not Real Ale.
Nitro is blasphemy.
On the other hand, when pushing product everything goes out the window.

what is the difference between CO2 produced by yeast and CO2 from a tank?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 11, 2017, 11:34:42 PM
what is the difference between CO2 produced by yeast and CO2 from a tank?

How stinky it is due to impurities!   ;D
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: The Beerery on January 11, 2017, 11:52:48 PM
what is the difference between CO2 produced by yeast and CO2 from a tank?

How stinky it is due to impurities!   ;D

There is a very large difference. Denny we have already went over this.  ;)
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 11, 2017, 11:57:59 PM
what is the difference between CO2 produced by yeast and CO2 from a tank?

How stinky it is due to impurities!   ;D
I get my CO2 from a business that specializes in beverage gas and is used by restaurants, bars and breweries over the entire KC metro area.  If breweries get CO2 from them and make great beer the CO2 is good for me.  That said I may try spunding as I venture into LODO.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Phil_M on January 12, 2017, 12:03:14 AM
purely anecdotal/subjective evidence, but all of my naturally carbonated beers have stayed fresh significantly longer than the force carbed ones. Force carbed is at it's peak after a week on gas, then a week later starts to fall off noticeably. (Though still far from wet cardboard-y)

Naturally carbed beersvary greatly as to when they reach their peak, from 3 days to 3 months, in my experience. I recently cracked open one of the few remaining bottles of the saison-turned-Belgian Strong Ale (the one I brewed in the spring, that ended up being 10%+) and it still has a nice fresh malty flavor.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: corkybstewart on January 12, 2017, 12:07:09 AM
Beer recipes should be simpler.  When I see recipes with several grains/malts added at 2, 3, or 4% of the grain bill I seriously doubt that any but the most discerning super tasters can distinguish any effect, much less identify the flavors from those additions.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 12, 2017, 12:19:13 AM
what is the difference between CO2 produced by yeast and CO2 from a tank?

How stinky it is due to impurities!   ;D

There is a very large difference. Denny we have already went over this.  ;)

perhaps you should post your opinion on it, at is certainly doesn't seem to be popular.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: santoch on January 12, 2017, 12:46:13 AM
Negative comments about my beers at brew club meeting because they are not IPAs, sours, fruit or any other molested style of brew. Comments are like: "good but not hoppy enough", "good but I like more funk." WTF is FUNK?
Feeling like an oddball, I quit going. Why can't people appreciate a good regular beer anymore?

Find another club if you can.  Or start your own.
Lots of folks like ALL kinds of beers, not just the hoppy/BIG/crazy stuff.  They are out there.

Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 12, 2017, 12:54:37 AM
Negative comments about my beers at brew club meeting because they are not IPAs, sours, fruit or any other molested style of brew. Comments are like: "good but not hoppy enough", "good but I like more funk." WTF is FUNK?
Feeling like an oddball, I quit going. Why can't people appreciate a good regular beer anymore?

Find another club if you can.  Or start your own.
Lots of folks like ALL kinds of beers, not just the hoppy/BIG/crazy stuff.  They are out there.

I like sour beers and brew them quite a bit, but I hate the term "funk".
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 12, 2017, 12:59:11 AM
Funk is as valid of a descriptor as dank. I don't like the descriptor dank, but understand it's use.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: The Beerery on January 12, 2017, 01:03:26 AM
what is the difference between CO2 produced by yeast and CO2 from a tank?

How stinky it is due to impurities!   ;D
I get my CO2 from a business that specializes in beverage gas and is used by restaurants, bars and breweries over the entire KC metro area.  If breweries get CO2 from them and make great beer the CO2 is good for me.  That said I may try spunding as I venture into LODO.

I can't speak to them if they are carbong and serving or just serving with it.  My guess would be the ones in the "know" are just pushing with it. 
"Even with food grade (99.9% pure) co2 will contain enough oxygen to potentially oxidize your beer past the point of no return. Brewing Literature recommends at least 99.997% pure co2 for force carbonating."

Please spund your low oxygen brews! Ask anyone who has done both and they will tell you never to force carb again.



Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 12, 2017, 01:07:39 AM
what is the difference between CO2 produced by yeast and CO2 from a tank?

How stinky it is due to impurities!   ;D

There is a very large difference. Denny we have already went over this.  ;)

perhaps you should post your opinion on it, at is certainly doesn't seem to be popular.

I'm a bottler, so I have no dog in the CO2 to keg with game, but natural carbonation from extract is the only way to ensure O2 free CO2.

Unpopular? Maybe.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: The Beerery on January 12, 2017, 01:16:38 AM
purely anecdotal/subjective evidence, but all of my naturally carbonated beers have stayed fresh significantly longer than the force carbed ones. Force carbed is at it's peak after a week on gas, then a week later starts to fall off noticeably. (Though still far from wet cardboard-y)

Naturally carbed beersvary greatly as to when they reach their peak, from 3 days to 3 months, in my experience. I recently cracked open one of the few remaining bottles of the saison-turned-Belgian Strong Ale (the one I brewed in the spring, that ended up being 10%+) and it still has a nice fresh malty flavor.

You are absolutely correct. The yeast will consume oxygen and leave you with a fresher product. With bottle you will have to fight cap ingress which is quite large actually.

The flavor degradation you speak of I touched on in a recent blog post.
Here (http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/cold-fermentation-and-spunding-results/)
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 12, 2017, 01:32:57 AM
I'm getting confused here. I force carb in the keg. Is that popular? Unpopular?
Title: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 12, 2017, 01:34:41 AM
I'm getting confused here. I force carb in the keg. Is that popular? Unpopular?

You're good Jim. That's popular. it just isn't recommended by an unpopular group. So in a sense it's unpopular.

Wait now I'm confused.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 12, 2017, 02:02:10 AM
Negative comments about my beers at brew club meeting because they are not IPAs, sours, fruit or any other molested style of brew. Comments are like: "good but not hoppy enough", "good but I like more funk." WTF is FUNK?
Feeling like an oddball, I quit going. Why can't people appreciate a good regular beer anymore?

Find another club if you can.  Or start your own.
Lots of folks like ALL kinds of beers, not just the hoppy/BIG/crazy stuff.  They are out there.

I like sour beers and brew them quite a bit, but I hate the term "funk".
What about "barnyard", "sweaty", and "horse blanket"?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Dustin on January 12, 2017, 03:54:46 AM
That NE IPA's are overrated.  There I said it.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 12, 2017, 04:19:58 AM
I like sour beers and brew them quite a bit, but I hate the term "funk".
What about "barnyard", "sweaty", and "horse blanket"?

All the above terms are more polite than "sheep sh*t".
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Weavz on January 12, 2017, 12:13:32 PM
The majority of session beers aren't sessionable, as they hover in the 4-5 percent ABV range. The 3.2 percent beers of my youth and mass-produced light American lagers are truly session beers. Of course, they lack the malt backbone that can support additional hops. ...
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dilluh98 on January 12, 2017, 02:08:11 PM
Perhaps not an opinion as much as a practice that I doubt is popular. As a bottler, I fill my bottles right to the top so that the beer is almost touching the cap. Almost no headspace. Hard to say if it makes any difference as I haven't done side by side and I'm sure the variability of cap ingress probably wouldn't allow me to conclude anything anyway. Not sure if it makes any difference but it isn't hurting anything as far as I can tell.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 12, 2017, 02:35:58 PM
Perhaps not an opinion as much as a practice that I doubt is popular. As a bottler, I fill my bottles right to the top so that the beer is almost touching the cap. Almost no headspace. Hard to say if it makes any difference as I haven't done side by side and I'm sure the variability of cap ingress probably wouldn't allow me to conclude anything anyway. Not sure if it makes any difference but it isn't hurting anything as far as I can tell.

I don't do this but I don't think it hurts anything either, and I know some other homebrewers agree with you.  It drives me nuts when I'm judging a competition and the other judges write "filled to the top" on top of the score sheet, because this doesn't affect flavor at all as far as I can tell, so their comment is meaningless.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 12, 2017, 02:49:41 PM
Perhaps not an opinion as much as a practice that I doubt is popular. As a bottler, I fill my bottles right to the top so that the beer is almost touching the cap. Almost no headspace. Hard to say if it makes any difference as I haven't done side by side and I'm sure the variability of cap ingress probably wouldn't allow me to conclude anything anyway. Not sure if it makes any difference but it isn't hurting anything as far as I can tell.


Kelsey McNair (multi NHC medalist) does this on his hoppy beers for comps, believing that the reduced/eliminated headspace helps the aromas hold up better. I don't know of any hard science on the idea, but don't see any problem with it either. O2 ingress is obviously gonna happen over time, but maybe in the short term it's helpful. Maybe not. When I bottle hoppy beers from keg, I do the same.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: gotedgo on January 12, 2017, 03:57:53 PM
My least favorite is a high ABV (above 10%), wood barrel aged sour. I have met a beer I didn't like but I have had some that came pretty close.

Other least favorite would be visiting a brewery and being served by someone who doesn't know difference between lager and ale. So disappointing. :(
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 12, 2017, 04:16:03 PM
I'm getting confused here. I force carb in the keg. Is that popular? Unpopular?

with the exception of roughly, 0.0001 percent of professional breweries and about 4 homebrewers I'd say its perfectly popular.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 12, 2017, 04:45:33 PM
I'm getting confused here. I force carb in the keg. Is that popular? Unpopular?

with the exception of roughly, 0.0001 percent of professional breweries and about 4 homebrewers I'd say its perfectly popular.

This is an unpopular opinion. You are good at this.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: denny on January 12, 2017, 05:18:03 PM
what is the difference between CO2 produced by yeast and CO2 from a tank?

How stinky it is due to impurities!   ;D

There is a very large difference. Denny we have already went over this.  ;)

If you don't brew low oxygen, which maybe 99% of brewers don't, then it won't matter.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Phil_M on January 12, 2017, 05:27:47 PM
what is the difference between CO2 produced by yeast and CO2 from a tank?

How stinky it is due to impurities!   ;D

There is a very large difference. Denny we have already went over this.  ;)

If you don't brew low oxygen, which maybe 99% of brewers don't, then it won't matter.

I'm not sure on that. While I'd agree without low oxygen practices spunding may not be required, but naturally carbing in the keg seems like a great way to keep oxidation at bay. There's been almost an arms race to minimize oxygen uptake when transferring/kegging lately, and keg conditioning seems an easy solution.

I'm planning to keg a non-LODO beer within the next week. Plan is to sanitize/purge, add primings, rack the beer, purge headspace, pressurize with whatever PSI matches the temp/carb level, then attack a spunding valve.

Hopefully the little oxygen in the CO2 will get scrubbed by the yeast, and by already pressurizing the keg I can ensure a good seal.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 12, 2017, 05:55:32 PM
I'm getting confused here. I force carb in the keg. Is that popular? Unpopular?

with the exception of roughly, 0.0001 percent of professional breweries and about 4 homebrewers I'd say its perfectly popular.

This is an unpopular opinion. You are good at this.

force carbing beer is an unpopular opinion? I'd say calling anyone that doesn't adhere to your brewing methods "amateur hobbyists" might be a little more so.

I'm glad you two have found this thread though, as LODO and unpopular seem to go together like peas and carrots :)
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 12, 2017, 06:03:49 PM
I'm getting confused here. I force carb in the keg. Is that popular? Unpopular?

with the exception of roughly, 0.0001 percent of professional breweries and about 4 homebrewers I'd say its perfectly popular.

This is an unpopular opinion. You are good at this.

force carbing beer is an unpopular opinion? I'd say calling anyone that doesn't adhere to your brewing methods "amateur hobbyists" might be a little more so.

I'm glad you two have found this thread though, as LODO and unpopular seem to go together like peas and carrots :)
My unpopular opinion - I don't like peas and carrots mixed together. Separately, I can eat them by the bushel, but you must never let them touch.  ;D
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 12, 2017, 06:05:16 PM
I'm getting confused here. I force carb in the keg. Is that popular? Unpopular?

with the exception of roughly, 0.0001 percent of professional breweries and about 4 homebrewers I'd say its perfectly popular.

This is an unpopular opinion. You are good at this.

force carbing beer is an unpopular opinion? I'd say calling anyone that doesn't adhere to your brewing methods "amateur hobbyists" might be a little more so.

I'm glad you two have found this thread though, as LODO and unpopular seem to go together like peas and carrots :)
My unpopular opinion - I don't like peas and carrots mixed together. Separately, I can eat them by the bushel, but you must never let them touch.  ;D

I don't like steamed peas.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 12, 2017, 06:17:43 PM
I'm getting confused here. I force carb in the keg. Is that popular? Unpopular?

with the exception of roughly, 0.0001 percent of professional breweries and about 4 homebrewers I'd say its perfectly popular.

This is an unpopular opinion. You are good at this.

force carbing beer is an unpopular opinion? I'd say calling anyone that doesn't adhere to your brewing methods "amateur hobbyists" might be a little more so.

I'm glad you two have found this thread though, as LODO and unpopular seem to go together like peas and carrots :)
My unpopular opinion - I don't like peas and carrots mixed together. Separately, I can eat them by the bushel, but you must never let them touch.  ;D

I don't like steamed peas.
OUT! You are no longer welcome here! Can't trust a man who doesn't like steamed peas like I can't trust a person with 2 first names.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 12, 2017, 06:23:58 PM
I'm getting confused here. I force carb in the keg. Is that popular? Unpopular?

with the exception of roughly, 0.0001 percent of professional breweries and about 4 homebrewers I'd say its perfectly popular.

This is an unpopular opinion. You are good at this.

force carbing beer is an unpopular opinion? I'd say calling anyone that doesn't adhere to your brewing methods "amateur hobbyists" might be a little more so.

I'm glad you two have found this thread though, as LODO and unpopular seem to go together like peas and carrots :)

I'm having a bit of fun. Joking, you remember joking around right?

As for how unpopular certain methods may or may not be, are you sure? Some very positive feedback coming from this forum.

Peas and carrots are delicious both together and separate.

Here is a potentially unpopular opinion: if your Tripel tastes like a Hefe, you did it wrong.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 12, 2017, 06:29:42 PM
Here is a potentially unpopular opinion: if your Tripel tastes like a Hefe, you did it wrong.


Ok in that vein, if your Saison tastes and smells like a Belgian Blond or a patersbier, you also did it wrong. I think saison's popularity has grown quicker than some commercial brewers' knowledge of the style. It may not be an unpopular opinion, just venting.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dilluh98 on January 12, 2017, 06:35:10 PM
Here is a potentially unpopular opinion: if your Tripel tastes like a Hefe, you did it wrong.


Ok in that vein, if your Saison tastes and smells like a Belgian Blond or a patersbier, you also did it wrong. I think saison's popularity has grown quicker than some commercial brewers' knowledge of the style. It may not be an unpopular opinion, just venting.

I have a hard time finding saison around here that doesn't have banana ester. I do not want banana ester in my saison. They are also almost never dry enough to my liking.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 12, 2017, 06:37:19 PM
Here is a potentially unpopular opinion: if your Tripel tastes like a Hefe, you did it wrong.


Ok in that vein, if your Saison tastes and smells like a Belgian Blond or a patersbier, you also did it wrong. I think saison's popularity has grown quicker than some commercial brewers' knowledge of the style. It may not be an unpopular opinion, just venting.

I have a hard time finding saison around here that doesn't have banana ester. I do not want banana ester in my saison. They are also almost never dry enough to my liking.


Exactly! Almost all the <non-Belgian> ones I can find lately are I guarantee you made with 3787, fermented too warm and with too high a FG at that. Pretty lame.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 12, 2017, 06:49:50 PM
Here is a potentially unpopular opinion: if your Tripel tastes like a Hefe, you did it wrong.


Ok in that vein, if your Saison tastes and smells like a Belgian Blond or a patersbier, you also did it wrong. I think saison's popularity has grown quicker than some commercial brewers' knowledge of the style. It may not be an unpopular opinion, just venting.
Here's my unpopular take on that. Brett beers and saisons are not the same thing. If it doesn't taste like a saison, then it's not a saison to me. You might as well start calling Orval and lambics as saisons while we're at it.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 12, 2017, 06:55:32 PM
Here is a potentially unpopular opinion: if your Tripel tastes like a Hefe, you did it wrong.


Ok in that vein, if your Saison tastes and smells like a Belgian Blond or a patersbier, you also did it wrong. I think saison's popularity has grown quicker than some commercial brewers' knowledge of the style. It may not be an unpopular opinion, just venting.
Here's my unpopular take on that. Brett beers and saisons are not the same thing. If it doesn't taste like a saison, then it's not a saison to me. You might as well start calling Orval and lambics as saisons while we're at it.

Yep, agreed. I think the 'Saison-Bretts' of the world muddied the waters for some, also.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 12, 2017, 07:05:06 PM
Here is a potentially unpopular opinion: if your Tripel tastes like a Hefe, you did it wrong.


Ok in that vein, if your Saison tastes and smells like a Belgian Blond or a patersbier, you also did it wrong. I think saison's popularity has grown quicker than some commercial brewers' knowledge of the style. It may not be an unpopular opinion, just venting.
Here's my unpopular take on that. Brett beers and saisons are not the same thing. If it doesn't taste like a saison, then it's not a saison to me. You might as well start calling Orval and lambics as saisons while we're at it.

Yep, agreed. I think the 'Saison-Bretts' of the world muddied the waters for some, also.
Right, and sour saisons, too. If it's dry and spicy, or if it was brewed as a saison and either Bretted or soured, then those labels are OK with me. But using "saison" as a catch-all for funky beers ain't right. I've had people tell me that they don't like saisons, but they actually meant sour/wild/funky beer. Something like Dupont would be right up their alley.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: klickitat jim on January 12, 2017, 07:07:19 PM
My unpopular opinion of the day is that something cannot be deemed popular just by one person, or even a group of people, even if they represent the majority, because if I say it's unpopular then it's unpopular. Plus sometimes it's very popular to be unpopular. Popular popular... doesn't even sound like a real word if you say it enough
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 12, 2017, 07:12:14 PM
My unpopular opinion of the day is that something cannot be deemed popular just by one person, or even a group of people, even if they represent the majority, because if I say it's unpopular then it's unpopular. Plus sometimes it's very popular to be unpopular. Popular popular... doesn't even sound like a real word if you say it enough

I find this to be very poplar:

(http://www.2020site.org/trees/img/SlideshowWinterPoplar.jpg)
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: Big Monk on January 12, 2017, 07:13:30 PM
My unpopular opinion of the day is that something cannot be deemed popular just by one person, or even a group of people, even if they represent the majority, because if I say it's unpopular then it's unpopular. Plus sometimes it's very popular to be unpopular. Popular popular... doesn't even sound like a real word if you say it enough

I find this to be very poplar:

(http://www.2020site.org/trees/img/SlideshowWinterPoplar.jpg)

For sure the most poplar-est thing posted today.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 12, 2017, 07:15:05 PM
I'm getting confused here. I force carb in the keg. Is that popular? Unpopular?

with the exception of roughly, 0.0001 percent of professional breweries and about 4 homebrewers I'd say its perfectly popular.

This is an unpopular opinion. You are good at this.

force carbing beer is an unpopular opinion? I'd say calling anyone that doesn't adhere to your brewing methods "amateur hobbyists" might be a little more so.

I'm glad you two have found this thread though, as LODO and unpopular seem to go together like peas and carrots :)

I'm having a bit of fun. Joking, you remember joking around right?

As for how unpopular certain methods may or may not be, are you sure? Some very positive feedback coming from this forum.

Peas and carrots are delicious both together and separate.

Here is a potentially unpopular opinion: if your Tripel tastes like a Hefe, you did it wrong.

steamed peas just taste like weird exploding wet balls of sugar. Perhaps they are being oxidized during the cooking process :)

I hear you on the banana and tripels. In fact, I don't like banana flavors  in darn near anything besides a hefe.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 12, 2017, 07:17:16 PM
I don't even like banana flavors in bananas that much.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 12, 2017, 07:18:42 PM
Here is a potentially unpopular opinion: if your Tripel tastes like a Hefe, you did it wrong.


Ok in that vein, if your Saison tastes and smells like a Belgian Blond or a patersbier, you also did it wrong. I think saison's popularity has grown quicker than some commercial brewers' knowledge of the style. It may not be an unpopular opinion, just venting.

Cant agree with you more. A professional friend of mine says some breweries avoid saisons because the strains are either too finicky to work with, or are so hyperattenuative they fear cross contamination really messing things up. Both of those reasons sound like BS to me if your methods are sound.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 12, 2017, 07:29:35 PM
I don't even like banana flavors in bananas that much.
I suppose you're just fine with bananas going by the way of the Dodo then? Because they're headed in that direction, sadly.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 12, 2017, 07:33:05 PM
Here is a potentially unpopular opinion: if your Tripel tastes like a Hefe, you did it wrong.


Ok in that vein, if your Saison tastes and smells like a Belgian Blond or a patersbier, you also did it wrong. I think saison's popularity has grown quicker than some commercial brewers' knowledge of the style. It may not be an unpopular opinion, just venting.

Cant agree with you more. A professional friend of mine says some breweries avoid saisons because the strains are either too finicky to work with, or are so hyperattenuative they fear cross contamination really messing things up. Both of those reasons sound like BS to me if your methods are sound.


Yeah, that's been my suspicion. Just BS to me. Then don't sell a 'saison', right? Not the end of the world.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 12, 2017, 07:35:32 PM
Here is a potentially unpopular opinion: if your Tripel tastes like a Hefe, you did it wrong.


Ok in that vein, if your Saison tastes and smells like a Belgian Blond or a patersbier, you also did it wrong. I think saison's popularity has grown quicker than some commercial brewers' knowledge of the style. It may not be an unpopular opinion, just venting.

Cant agree with you more. A professional friend of mine says some breweries avoid saisons because the strains are either too finicky to work with, or are so hyperattenuative they fear cross contamination really messing things up. Both of those reasons sound like BS to me if your methods are sound.


Yeah, that's been my suspicion. Just BS to me. Then don't sell a 'saison', right? Not the end of the world.

a new brewery opened up in my area. The head brewer intimated to me that they use the same yeast for their Belgians strong, saison and witbier. It was pretty disappointing.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 12, 2017, 07:36:07 PM
I don't even like banana flavors in bananas that much.
I suppose you're just fine with bananas going by the way of the Dodo then? Because they're headed in that direction, sadly.
No I don't want that. There just something I like about once a year. Even if I hated them I wouldn't want them extinct. Besides, there so funny! Hello! Hello! Oh wait, this is a banana, not a telephone. I suppose kids these days need a flat, rectangular fruit to pretend to be a phone.
that's my stream of consciousness post for the day. Your welcome.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 12, 2017, 07:41:01 PM
wait, what the heck is happening with bananas?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 12, 2017, 07:43:46 PM
a new brewery opened up in my area. The head brewer intimated to me that they use the same yeast for their Belgians strong, saison and witbier. It was pretty disappointing.

I've noticed the same. I think saison is one of the trendy styles du jour. "So let's butcher it for a year, then on to the next thing."
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 12, 2017, 07:46:17 PM
wait, what the heck is happening with bananas?
A fungal disease. Since its a huge monoculture crop, with only one cultivar commercially grown, it may get wiped out.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: ynotbrusum on January 12, 2017, 07:47:18 PM
wait, what the heck is happening with bananas?

The types of banana are very limited and once the gene pool gets down to one type (that everyone recognizes here in the US), it will be endangered and risks being wiped out, evidently.

Peter beat me to it - yeah, what he said.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 12, 2017, 07:47:42 PM
wait, what the heck is happening with bananas?
A fungal disease. Since its a huge monoculture crop, with only one cultivar commercially grown, it may get wiped out.

How the hell am I just hearing about this. That really sucks.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dilluh98 on January 12, 2017, 07:48:07 PM
a new brewery opened up in my area. The head brewer intimated to me that they use the same yeast for their Belgians strong, saison and witbier. It was pretty disappointing.

I've noticed the same. I think saison is one of the trendy styles du jour. "So let's butcher it for a year, then on to the next thing."

Yup, a local brewer told me their saison is brewed with a blend of wit and "Belgian" strains.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 12, 2017, 07:48:49 PM
a new brewery opened up in my area. The head brewer intimated to me that they use the same yeast for their Belgians strong, saison and witbier. It was pretty disappointing.

I've noticed the same. I think saison is one of the trendy styles du jour. "So let's butcher it for a year, then on to the next thing."
The brewery that opened recently in my town started out with a so-so "farmhouse Ale" but quickly improved it. they moved from a Belgian strain to a French strain to a different Belgian. They are a Farmer Brewery so I think they were pretty dedicated to getting their Farmhouse Ale right.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 12, 2017, 07:53:21 PM
wait, what the heck is happening with bananas?
A fungal disease. Since its a huge monoculture crop, with only one cultivar commercially grown, it may get wiped out.

How the hell am I just hearing about this. That really sucks.

And Y2K might spark a nuclear war, and aliens might take over the planet, and Donald Trump might become president.

Pffft, don't worry about it!  ;)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 12, 2017, 07:56:11 PM
a new brewery opened up in my area. The head brewer intimated to me that they use the same yeast for their Belgians strong, saison and witbier. It was pretty disappointing.

I've noticed the same. I think saison is one of the trendy styles du jour. "So let's butcher it for a year, then on to the next thing."
The brewery that opened recently in my town started out with a so-so "farmhouse Ale" but quickly improved it. they moved from a Belgian strain to a French strain to a different Belgian. They are a Farmer Brewery so I think they were pretty dedicated to getting their Farmhouse Ale right.


Awesome. That's how it should be.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 12, 2017, 07:56:57 PM
a new brewery opened up in my area. The head brewer intimated to me that they use the same yeast for their Belgians strong, saison and witbier. It was pretty disappointing.

I've noticed the same. I think saison is one of the trendy styles du jour. "So let's butcher it for a year, then on to the next thing."
The brewery that opened recently in my town started out with a so-so "farmhouse Ale" but quickly improved it. they moved from a Belgian strain to a French strain to a different Belgian. They are a Farmer Brewery so I think they were pretty dedicated to getting their Farmhouse Ale right.
Is this Stone Cow? I don't think I had their farmhouse, but their Farmer's Daughter berliner is killer!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 12, 2017, 08:10:16 PM
a new brewery opened up in my area. The head brewer intimated to me that they use the same yeast for their Belgians strong, saison and witbier. It was pretty disappointing.

I've noticed the same. I think saison is one of the trendy styles du jour. "So let's butcher it for a year, then on to the next thing."
The brewery that opened recently in my town started out with a so-so "farmhouse Ale" but quickly improved it. they moved from a Belgian strain to a French strain to a different Belgian. They are a Farmer Brewery so I think they were pretty dedicated to getting their Farmhouse Ale right.
Is this Stone Cow? I don't think I had their farmhouse, but their Farmer's Daughter berliner is killer!
Yes. I don't have the Farmer's Daughter a lot because I have to be in the mood, which is generally in the summer. The Farmhouse I get growlers of because its a great session beer. 3.9% I believe and tasty as heck.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: brew inspector01 on January 12, 2017, 10:42:39 PM
wait, what the heck is happening with bananas?
A fungal disease. Since its a huge monoculture crop, with only one cultivar commercially grown, it may get wiped out.

How the hell am I just hearing about this. That really sucks.

And Y2K might spark a nuclear war, and aliens might take over the planet, and Donald Trump might become president.

Pffft, don't worry about it!  ;)
Don't worry about it but it is true.  In fact the Cavendish variety we eat now is what replaced the previous banana of choice years ago. They just need to get on with the selection of a new breed and begin cultivation

Sent from my SM-J320P using Tapatalk

Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 12, 2017, 10:51:57 PM
Don't worry about it but it is true.  In fact the Cavendish variety we eat now is what replaced the previous banana of choice years ago. They just need to get on with the selection of a new breed and begin cultivation

I'm not worried.  Regardless of all other madness in this world, I actually still have just enough faith in humanity that we will be able to save the banana.  There are other varieties besides Cavendish.  Even plantains aren't half bad if allowed to fully ripen.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 12, 2017, 10:52:15 PM
From what I have heard, most of the contenders suck compared to the cavendish which sucks compared to the Gros Michele. There are so many factors that go into it. Taste, size, texture, storability, durability, disease resistance, water needs, nutrient needs, plant height, spacing.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 12, 2017, 10:59:29 PM
Don't worry about it but it is true.  In fact the Cavendish variety we eat now is what replaced the previous banana of choice years ago. They just need to get on with the selection of a new breed and begin cultivation

I'm not worried.  Regardless of all other madness in this world, I actually still have just enough faith in humanity that we will be able to save the banana.  There are other varieties besides Cavendish.  Even plantains aren't half bad if allowed to fully ripen.

Of all the unpopular opinions I have heard in this thread, this one takes the cake haha.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 12, 2017, 11:18:31 PM
Don't worry about it but it is true.  In fact the Cavendish variety we eat now is what replaced the previous banana of choice years ago. They just need to get on with the selection of a new breed and begin cultivation

I'm not worried.  Regardless of all other madness in this world, I actually still have just enough faith in humanity that we will be able to save the banana.  There are other varieties besides Cavendish.  Even plantains aren't half bad if allowed to fully ripen.

Of all the unpopular opinions I have heard in this thread, this one takes the cake haha.
Slice them,  pan fry and sprinkle some salt on them and they are delicious.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 12, 2017, 11:24:09 PM
Quote from: bboy9000 link=topic=28401.msg373705#msg373705
Slice them,  pan fry and sprinkle some salt on them and they are delicious.


Yeah, they're tasty.Just not raw.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: el_capitan on January 12, 2017, 11:38:32 PM
wait, what the heck is happening with bananas?
A fungal disease. Since its a huge monoculture crop, with only one cultivar commercially grown, it may get wiped out.

How the hell am I just hearing about this. That really sucks.

Well, when you factor in the carbon footprint of flying bananas around the world, I don't see it as such a big problem.  IMO, we need to focus on more local food options and especially growing our own food (subsistence farming) as ways to personally combat climate change.  My kids never ate a banana until the past year, when we relaxed our standards a bit.  They get more excited about picking cherry tomatoes and berries from the garden than bananas.  Keep in mind that I'm a tree-hugging Earth Science teacher/hobby farmer, and I'm always "thinking green".
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 12, 2017, 11:58:19 PM
wait, what the heck is happening with bananas?
A fungal disease. Since its a huge monoculture crop, with only one cultivar commercially grown, it may get wiped out.

How the hell am I just hearing about this. That really sucks.

Well, when you factor in the carbon footprint of flying bananas around the world, I don't see it as such a big problem.  IMO, we need to focus on more local food options and especially growing our own food (subsistence farming) as ways to personally combat climate change.  My kids never ate a banana until the past year, when we relaxed our standards a bit.  They get more excited about picking cherry tomatoes and berries from the garden than bananas.  Keep in mind that I'm a tree-hugging Earth Science teacher/hobby farmer, and I'm always "thinking green".
Bananas in the US are shipped by container ship but your point is extremely valid.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: riceral on January 13, 2017, 12:33:09 AM

Here is a potentially unpopular opinion: if your Tripel tastes like a Hefe, you did it wrong.

I totally agree.

I brewed a tripel with a dry yeast that had banana flavors, and I just called it a Belgian Hefe.

Couldn't wait to get rid of it and gave most of it away.

Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: narvin on January 13, 2017, 12:40:29 AM
I hope that people are getting to understand Belgian beers enough that these opinions aren't unpopular.  But it also shouldn't taste like bubblegum  :D
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Philbrew on January 13, 2017, 01:00:35 AM
SAVE THE BANANA!  SAVE THE BANANA!  SAVE THE BANANA!

OK, this thread is officially a train wreck!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: pete b on January 13, 2017, 02:10:09 PM
This thread is for fun. I think it's fine if it gets off topic, silly, or whatnot. An unpopular opinion?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 13, 2017, 02:18:02 PM
This thread is for fun. I think it's fine if it gets off topic, silly, or whatnot. An unpopular opinion?



It's rare the thread that doesn't get derailed.


Signed,
Frequent Derailer
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: ynotbrusum on January 13, 2017, 04:05:09 PM
Derailing threads is a sign of my ADHD...wait, what was that?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: dmtaylor on January 13, 2017, 04:11:08 PM
Derailing threads is a sign of my ADHD...wait, what was that?

If anyone actually monitored what I was doing or thinking from second to second...... I'm pretty certain I have undiagnosed adult ADD (not hyper)..... it's as if I loved to multitask, but am really really REALLY bad at it!  :D
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: reverseapachemaster on January 13, 2017, 04:26:46 PM
My unpopular brewing opinion is that a small amount thread derailing is a good thing.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 13, 2017, 06:30:35 PM
My unpopular brewing opinion is that a small amount thread derailing is a good thing.
Right, but massive tangents are great. How about them playoffs?
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: EnkAMania on January 13, 2017, 06:38:31 PM
My unpopular brewing opinion is that a small amount thread derailing is a good thing.
Right, but massive tangents are great. How about them playoffs?

Charger fan here, not sure what you're referring to
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 13, 2017, 06:44:20 PM
My unpopular brewing opinion is that a small amount thread derailing is a good thing.
Right, but massive tangents are great. How about them playoffs?
My kegerator is en route today. Pats are playing the night game so I'll be home from work. Party at my house!

Unfortunately, the party is the one my wife is hosting to sell leggings or some crap to the rest of her soccer mom friends. It starts 15 minutes before kickoff. :-\ Maybe I'll install the kegerator in my bedroom...
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: el_capitan on January 13, 2017, 10:45:37 PM
I'm not a huge sports fan, but I always root for the red-shirt foosball guys.

(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-foosball-screwed-up-my-perception-of-soccer-i-though-you-had-to-kick-the-ball-and-then-mitch-hedberg-57-47-35.jpg)

(http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-i-think-foosball-is-a-combination-of-soccer-and-shish-kabobs-mitch-hedberg-82101.jpg)
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 13, 2017, 11:24:38 PM
I'm not a huge sports fan, but I always root for the red-shirt foosball guys.

(http://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-foosball-screwed-up-my-perception-of-soccer-i-though-you-had-to-kick-the-ball-and-then-mitch-hedberg-57-47-35.jpg)

(http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-i-think-foosball-is-a-combination-of-soccer-and-shish-kabobs-mitch-hedberg-82101.jpg)
Hahaha. Mitch was funny. R.I.P.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 13, 2017, 11:52:01 PM
Bananas aren't really good until about Thursday.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 14, 2017, 12:10:54 AM
Bananas aren't really good until about Thursday.



Yeah, for sure. And on a different note, I really like duct tape. It's pretty useful for stuff.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 14, 2017, 12:46:18 AM
Bananas aren't really good until about Thursday.



Yeah, for sure. And on a different note, I really like duct tape. It's pretty useful for stuff.

It works especially well in adhering my ferm wraps to my carboys!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Philbrew on January 14, 2017, 01:13:56 AM
Bananas aren't really good until about Thursday.



Yeah, for sure. And on a different note, I really like duct tape. It's pretty useful for stuff.
Penalty!!...5 yards for delay of thread.  NOT an "unpopular" brewing opinion.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 14, 2017, 01:26:22 AM
Bananas aren't really good until about Thursday.



Yeah, for sure. And on a different note, I really like duct tape. It's pretty useful for stuff.
Penalty!!...5 yards for delay of thread.  NOT an "unpopular" brewing opinion.


Ok in that case, duct tape's adhesive is actually derived from beaver anal gland secretions.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: tommymorris on January 14, 2017, 01:41:20 AM
Pumpkin beer is good.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 14, 2017, 01:48:48 AM
Bananas aren't really good until about Thursday.



Yeah, for sure. And on a different note, I really like duct tape. It's pretty useful for stuff.
Penalty!!...5 yards for delay of thread.  NOT an "unpopular" brewing opinion.


Ok in that case, duct tape's adhesive is actually derived from beaver anal gland secretions.

Wow.... that's a blast from the past!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 14, 2017, 01:52:42 AM
Bananas aren't really good until about Thursday.



Yeah, for sure. And on a different note, I really like duct tape. It's pretty useful for stuff.
Penalty!!...5 yards for delay of thread.  NOT an "unpopular" brewing opinion.


Ok in that case, duct tape's adhesive is actually derived from beaver anal gland secretions.

Wow.... that's a blast from the past!



;D
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: Stevie on January 14, 2017, 01:55:20 AM
I don't want to brew sour beers anymore. Too many crap sour and Brett beers out there. I don't want to be mixed in that noise.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: fmader on January 14, 2017, 01:56:00 AM
I don't want to brew sour beers anymore. Too many crap sour and Brett beers out there. I don't want to be mixed in that noise.

You can flavor it with a sour beaver butt!
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 14, 2017, 02:03:43 AM
I don't want to brew sour beers anymore. Too many crap sour and Brett beers out there. I don't want to be mixed in that noise.



Yep, same here. I'll buy an occasional bottle of sour something but I'm done brewing it. Just not for me to brew .
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 14, 2017, 02:35:15 PM
I don't want to brew sour beers anymore. Too many crap sour and Brett beers out there. I don't want to be mixed in that noise.

That doesn't seem logical to me. If the rest is crap, it's much easier to shine if you're good...
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: erockrph on January 14, 2017, 02:51:09 PM
I don't want to brew sour beers anymore. Too many crap sour and Brett beers out there. I don't want to be mixed in that noise.

That doesn't seem logical to me. If the rest is crap, it's much easier to shine if you're good...
We're not selling them anyways. Most commercial IPA is crap (and by that I generally mean "not super-fresh when I find them"), so I brew my own instead. I think the same thing applies here to an extent.

As far as the sour thing goes, I'm not into it enough to make it worth the months to years on time investment for a batch that will take me years to consume. I've decided to focus on quick-soured Berliners and really get my technique honed in there. I enjoy drinking those in quantity, so it's worth the effort. I can easily reserve a gallon for long-term aging with some gueuze dregs to satisfy my needs for those more complex sours.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Steve Ruch on January 14, 2017, 05:02:18 PM
Yeah, for sure. And on a different note, I really like duct tape. It's pretty useful for stuff.

It's the handyman's secret weapon.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: reverseapachemaster on January 14, 2017, 05:20:11 PM
I may never brew a batch larger than six gallons and feel okay about that.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: santoch on January 14, 2017, 09:35:42 PM
If it moves but shouldn't, add duct tape.
If it should move but doesn't, add WD-40.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Bilsch on January 14, 2017, 10:37:56 PM
My unpopular brewing opinion is in too many craft beers the main purpose of hops is to camouflage flaws in the brewing process.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 14, 2017, 10:41:18 PM
If it moves but shouldn't, add duct tape.
If it should move but doesn't, add WD-40.




Words to live by..
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: bboy9000 on January 15, 2017, 08:59:37 AM
Opinions are like @$$h01es
Everybody has one and they all stink.
Title: Re: What are your &quot;unpopular&quot; brewing opinions
Post by: Philbrew on January 15, 2017, 07:07:54 PM
Opinions are like @$$h01es
Everybody has one and they all stink.
Everybody has one and, if you are dog, no two are alike.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: beersk on January 15, 2017, 07:29:46 PM
Opinions are like @$$h01es
Everybody has one and they all stink.

Even those freshly showered?
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: kgs on January 16, 2017, 01:30:24 PM
My unpopular brewing opinion is in too many craft beers the main purpose of hops is to camouflage flaws in the brewing process.

Long ago, when I was stationed in Germany and living "on the economy," as we said (in a German village), my landlord commented that dry wines were harder to make than sweet wines because the winery couldn't cover up its errors with additions. A bad hoppy beer does sometimes taste like a lot of errors covered by hops.
Title: Re: What are your "unpopular" brewing opinions
Post by: Kutaka on January 21, 2017, 01:23:22 AM
I played a drinking game with this thread.  I drank every time someone was wrong about beer.  Current status is DRUNK.  Might need to call for an ambulance.