Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

Other than Brewing => All Things Food => Topic started by: homoeccentricus on January 08, 2017, 05:37:42 PM

Title: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 08, 2017, 05:37:42 PM
... 113 grams of butter instead of a "stick". What, in Saint Arnoldus' name, is a stick??
And why 113 grams? "No sir, not 112, not 114, 113. It is what we do! The Elders have taught us!"
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Big Monk on January 08, 2017, 06:31:44 PM
... 113 grams of butter instead of a "stick". What, in Saint Arnoldus' name, is a stick??
And why 113 grams? "No sir, not 112, not 114, 113. It is what we do! The Elders have taught us!"

Why 8 tablespoons of butter of course.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 08, 2017, 06:36:59 PM
... 113 grams of butter instead of a "stick". What, in Saint Arnoldus' name, is a stick??
And why 113 grams? "No sir, not 112, not 114, 113. It is what we do! The Elders have taught us!"

Why 8 tablespoons of butter of course.

That's 113.44 grams. Is your lodo spreadsheet as "accurate"?
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: MDixon on January 08, 2017, 06:39:33 PM
4 ounces is a stick
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: reverseapachemaster on January 08, 2017, 06:41:43 PM
... 113 grams of butter instead of a "stick". What, in Saint Arnoldus' name, is a stick??
And why 113 grams? "No sir, not 112, not 114, 113. It is what we do! The Elders have taught us!"

Why 8 tablespoons of butter of course.

That's 113.44 grams. Is your lodo spreadsheet as "accurate"?

Having only bought butter in the US I can only say when a recipe calls for a stick of butter it always means exactly eight tablespoons because sticks are cut precisely to that measurement. You don't need to know how much is in one stick of butter because it's always the same amount.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 08, 2017, 06:55:04 PM
Then my recommendation to the proud people of America is: redefine a stick to be 100 grams. Adjust the definition of the ounce accordingly. Throw away those tablespoons, and make new ones, smaller or bigger. I'll leave the details to you guys. I'm really fed up with always having to look up stuff whenever I want to use an American recipe.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 08, 2017, 06:57:34 PM
I mean it.
Title: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Big Monk on January 08, 2017, 06:58:44 PM
Maybe you backwards euro savages need to bend the knee ()


EDIT: add emoji to make sure everyone knows I'm joking.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: mabrungard on January 08, 2017, 07:02:33 PM
While I still use English units for my typical civil engineering work, I do pull out the SI units when things get hairy with slugs and other arcane units. Please forgive the unit war.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: pete b on January 08, 2017, 07:28:12 PM
I just had to convert a cocktail recipe from a bottle of nonino from centiliters to ounces so it goes both ways.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Phil_M on January 08, 2017, 07:34:47 PM
Arguing about using 113 instead of one of a single unit is akin to arguing the use of 3.14 instead of π in a calculation. (IOW, There's a time and a place for both... :P)
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 08, 2017, 07:36:10 PM
Arguing about using 113 instead of one of a single unit is akin to arguing the use of 3.14 instead of π in a calculation. (IOW, There's a time and a place for both... :P)


Yeah.  :)
Title: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Stevie on January 08, 2017, 07:40:35 PM
Is a "stick" an official unit of measure or just a de facto standard caused by the preferences of the brownie and cookie recipe cartels.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 08, 2017, 07:41:54 PM
I just had to convert a cocktail recipe from a bottle of nonino from centiliters to ounces so it goes both ways.
It's not "both ways" . It's a right way and a wrong way.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 08, 2017, 07:43:49 PM
And is a tablespoon a heaped spoon or what
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Big Monk on January 08, 2017, 07:43:50 PM
I just had to convert a cocktail recipe from a bottle of nonino from centiliters to ounces so it goes both ways.
It's not "both ways" . It's a right way and a wrong way.

Exactly right. Metric is infinitely more sensible and infinitely more wrong.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: pete b on January 08, 2017, 08:01:51 PM
And is a tablespoon a heaped spoon or what
No it's a tablespoon. Is a centiliter a heaped milliliter?
Title: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: tommymorris on January 08, 2017, 08:43:00 PM
And is a tablespoon a heaped spoon or what
No it's a tablespoon. Is a centiliter a heaped milliliter?
A US tablespoon is 0.5 US fluid ounces which is 14.8 ml.

You can round up to 15 ml if that makes life easier for you.

But, that would make a stick of butter is 120ml which you know is not true.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: bboy9000 on January 08, 2017, 09:03:21 PM
Arguing about using 113 instead of one of a single unit is akin to arguing the use of 3.14 instead of π in a calculation. (IOW, There's a time and a place for both... :P)
Tau is much better than pi.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: narvin on January 08, 2017, 09:21:49 PM
What shape does your butter come in?  Small molds of the Mannequin Pis?
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 08, 2017, 09:23:21 PM
And is a tablespoon a heaped spoon or what
No it's a tablespoon. Is a centiliter a heaped milliliter?
A US tablespoon is 0.5 US fluid ounces which is 14.8 ml.

You can round up to 15 ml if that makes life easier for you.

But, that would make a stick of butter is 120ml which you know is not true.

You are just making it worse for yourselves.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: tommymorris on January 08, 2017, 09:28:05 PM
And is a tablespoon a heaped spoon or what
No it's a tablespoon. Is a centiliter a heaped milliliter?
A US tablespoon is 0.5 US fluid ounces which is 14.8 ml.

You can round up to 15 ml if that makes life easier for you.

But, that would make a stick of butter is 120ml which you know is not true.

You are just making it worse for yourselves.
There's no saving us. Too far gone.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 08, 2017, 10:44:11 PM
And is a tablespoon a heaped spoon or what
No it's a tablespoon. Is a centiliter a heaped milliliter?

So if you need a "tablespoon" of butter, you take a stick, melt it, and scoop the butter with the spoon?
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Big Monk on January 08, 2017, 10:47:56 PM
And is a tablespoon a heaped spoon or what
No it's a tablespoon. Is a centiliter a heaped milliliter?

So if you need a "tablespoon" of butter, you take a stick, melt it, and scoop the butter with the spoon?

If your mind is blown now, wait till you get to pinches and smidgens!
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Phil_M on January 08, 2017, 11:15:43 PM
And is a tablespoon a heaped spoon or what
No it's a tablespoon. Is a centiliter a heaped milliliter?

So if you need a "tablespoon" of butter, you take a stick, melt it, and scoop the butter with the spoon?

No, each stick is marked for ounces, tablespoons, and sometimes teaspoons. You just cut off as much as you need.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Western-pack-butter.jpg)
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Stevie on January 08, 2017, 11:19:23 PM
And is a tablespoon a heaped spoon or what
No it's a tablespoon. Is a centiliter a heaped milliliter?

So if you need a "tablespoon" of butter, you take a stick, melt it, and scoop the butter with the spoon?
Just jam it in there with your thumb.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 08, 2017, 11:21:57 PM
What shape does your butter come in?  Small molds of the Mannequin Pis?


Bwahahaha. ;D.   As it melts the butter runs out of its....................
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 08, 2017, 11:27:35 PM
And is a tablespoon a heaped spoon or what
No it's a tablespoon. Is a centiliter a heaped milliliter?

So if you need a "tablespoon" of butter, you take a stick, melt it, and scoop the butter with the spoon?

No, each stick is marked for ounces, tablespoons, and sometimes teaspoons. You just cut off as much as you need.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fd/Western-pack-butter.jpg)

So you take a steak knife and cut through the wrapper.
Title: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Stevie on January 08, 2017, 11:30:05 PM
Any knife. It's butter, it's soft.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 08, 2017, 11:33:53 PM
But you need a knife to get a tablespoon of butter.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Stevie on January 08, 2017, 11:36:19 PM
But you need a knife to get a tablespoon of butter.
could use a fork I suppose. Untrimmed fingernails might do the trick.

Another crazy thing is we sell our butter with and without salt.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 08, 2017, 11:39:02 PM
What shape does your butter come in?  Small molds of the Mannequin Pis?

Actually yes, we do have that. Each Manneke weighs 100 grams exactly: (http://confiseriedio.be/images/stories/leonidas/vollechoc/Mannekepiswit.jpg)
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: klickitat jim on January 09, 2017, 12:01:51 AM
As you can see by the photo, the "stick" is super precise.

Metric needs to rule the day. It's a tiny world now. Get with it. If some people are so stupid they can't adapt from 32F to 0C, they probably aren't contributing to society anyway.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Phil_M on January 09, 2017, 12:27:54 AM
As you can see by the photo, the "stick" is super precise.

Metric needs to rule the day. It's a tiny world now. Get with it. If some people are so stupid they can't adapt from 32F to 0C, they probably aren't contributing to society anyway.

The most vocal advocates of the English system that I know are engineers...Sometimes, it's just easier. Nice to have options.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: tommymorris on January 09, 2017, 12:51:17 AM
As you can see by the photo, the "stick" is super precise.

Metric needs to rule the day. It's a tiny world now. Get with it. If some people are so stupid they can't adapt from 32F to 0C, they probably aren't contributing to society anyway.
I assume you switched to metric in your brewing software and on your temp controllers?

I tried it and gave up.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: pete b on January 09, 2017, 01:24:31 AM
I just want to point out that we now live in a world where Europeans are getting their recipes from America. What are you making, pulled pork waffle sandwiches?
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: dmtaylor on January 09, 2017, 01:44:54 AM
And is a tablespoon a heaped spoon or what

A tablespoon is 3 teaspoons or a half ounce, or about 14 grams.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: tommymorris on January 09, 2017, 02:03:30 AM
How many sticks of butter are in Belgian waffles?
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: bboy9000 on January 09, 2017, 02:27:25 AM
As you can see by the photo, the "stick" is super precise.

Metric needs to rule the day. It's a tiny world now. Get with it. If some people are so stupid they can't adapt from 32F to 0C, they probably aren't contributing to society anyway.
^This.  Thanks Jim.  We need to get with it.  Fractions suck too.  Also, didn't Congress pass a law in the 70's to require is to switch?
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: pete b on January 09, 2017, 02:39:38 AM
As you can see by the photo, the "stick" is super precise.

Metric needs to rule the day. It's a tiny world now. Get with it. If some people are so stupid they can't adapt from 32F to 0C, they probably aren't contributing to society anyway.
^This.  Thanks Jim.  We need to get with it.  Fractions suck too.  Also, didn't Congress pass a law in the 70's to require is to switch?
I remember being in grade school in the seventies as the US was converting to the metric system. "Learn it, don't convert it" was the mantra. Once the 1980's came I think it was viewed, along with everything else, as a communist plot.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Stevie on January 09, 2017, 02:46:27 AM
Metric isn't in the Bible.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: pete b on January 09, 2017, 03:26:09 AM
Metric isn't in the Bible.
Sticks of butter are. Leviticus. Shellfish are an abomination and unclean, unless one meltith a stick of butter and poureth upon.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 09, 2017, 04:49:01 AM
As you can see by the photo, the "stick" is super precise.

Metric needs to rule the day. It's a tiny world now. Get with it. If some people are so stupid they can't adapt from 32F to 0C, they probably aren't contributing to society anyway.
^This.  Thanks Jim.  We need to get with it.  Fractions suck too.  Also, didn't Congress pass a law in the 70's to require is to switch?
I remember being in grade school in the seventies as the US was converting to the metric system. "Learn it, don't convert it" was the mantra. Once the 1980's came I think it was viewed, along with everything else, as a communist plot.
I had to work in SI units. You get used to it. Powers of 10 have some advantages.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 09, 2017, 07:36:54 AM
I just want to point out that we now live in a world where Europeans are getting their recipes from America. What are you making, pulled pork waffle sandwiches?

The original recipe was "simply grilled left wings", but I modified it.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: JJeffers09 on January 09, 2017, 12:10:19 PM
You have to blame the good people of Boston in the Victorian era.  I blame them for our dare I say, 'wankey' standardized measurments.  However someone early on pointed out, measuring in oz is my preference.  Grams are not for cooking or hops IMHO ;-)
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Phil_M on January 09, 2017, 12:12:46 PM
Fractions suck too.

Till you need a precise answer, then you'll use them even in the metric system. Sure, your final product may be 1.38 whatevers, but when you're building the equation to model it you're better off not adding in decimals.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 09, 2017, 12:50:47 PM
How many sticks of butter are in Belgian waffles?

About three ounces of sticks in 8 waffles.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: pete b on January 09, 2017, 01:18:13 PM
How many sticks of butter are in Belgian waffles?

About three ounces of sticks in 8 waffles.
So 3/4 of a stick for the batter and an ounce to melt on top. See the beauty in that!?
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 09, 2017, 01:23:02 PM
Not three ounces of butter, three ounces of sticks.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: erockrph on January 09, 2017, 02:32:12 PM
This is why scales have multiple settings. As long as my scale has a setting for it, I could care less what unit. And one advantage of being a pharmacist is that converting from oz/tsp/dram/minim/etc to mL is second nature to me.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: dmtaylor on January 09, 2017, 02:35:44 PM
You have to blame the good people of Boston in the Victorian era.  I blame them for our dare I say, 'wankey' standardized measurments.  However someone early on pointed out, measuring in oz is my preference.  Grams are not for cooking or hops IMHO ;-)

With my typically small batch size of 1.7 gallons, I'm beginning to realize the benefits of precision, to the point that I am beginning to measure my hops in grams now instead of ounces.  I don't like measuring out 0.07 ounces of hops or whatever... it's easier to skip all the crazy zeroes and just say "2 grams".  And yes, this has been a real quantity for me at some time or another over the past year.  Actually on my last batch I finally used up almost every old gram of old hops that I had laying around, and it worked very well (only for bittering, mind you).

By the same token, I prefer to measure temperatures in Fahrenheit, since a one-degree difference in Celsius is actually quite a lot compared to the 5/9 as much Fahrenheit.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: klickitat jim on January 09, 2017, 02:56:57 PM
I use 'merican for temp control, water wort and beer gallons, grain pounds. But hops are grams, DME is grams, starter water is ml, acid is ml, salts are grams. Wort and beer is SG but starter wort is °p because it figures itself out 100ml + 10g = 10 per 100 or 10°(ish)
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 09, 2017, 03:16:51 PM
I use 'merican for temp control, water wort and beer gallons, grain pounds.

For me it's basically the same, just replace "use" by "understand". But I will never understand how much half a stick of phosphoric acid is.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: klickitat jim on January 10, 2017, 01:15:09 AM
It would be a step in the right direction if folks would understand the difference between by weight and by volume. Causes my turrets to flare up when folks convert or compare teaspoons to grams. A teaspoon of fluffy stuff weighs less than a teaspoon of dense stuff.
Title: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Stevie on January 10, 2017, 01:21:30 AM
It would be a step in the right direction if folks would understand the difference between by weight and by volume. Causes my turrets to flare up when folks convert or compare teaspoons to grams. A teaspoon of fluffy stuff weighs less than a teaspoon of dense stuff.
Right, but for some items this is accounted for. For example Reinhardt's bread books (and other foodie/hipster/pretentious books) give mass and volume. With salt he also gives the volume for kosher salt and table salt. Kosher salt is a little less dense due to its shape.

Mass is the far superior unit of measure for just about any dry loose material. Volume is arguably better for liquids as liquids can have varying densities.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: klickitat jim on January 10, 2017, 01:31:31 AM
Awesome
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: erockrph on January 10, 2017, 01:47:00 AM
While I'm thinking of it, why would someone in Belgium be following an American recipe that calls for a stick of butter (or multiple sticks)? Is Paula Deen a big hit over there?

(https://cutelypoisoned.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/3567h0.jpg)
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: narvin on January 10, 2017, 04:12:04 AM
Just remember, 4 grams is 1 teaspoon.  Of gypsum.  According to John Palmer.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: bboy9000 on January 10, 2017, 04:33:23 AM
It would be a step in the right direction if folks would understand the difference between by weight and by volume. Causes my turrets to flare up when folks convert or compare teaspoons to grams. A teaspoon of fluffy stuff weighs less than a teaspoon of dense stuff.
True.  We should be comparing teaspoons to mL.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: bboy9000 on January 10, 2017, 04:37:45 AM
Just remember, 4 grams is 1 teaspoon.  Of gypsum.  According to John Palmer.
One also must be an arborist to understand all-grain brewing.  I think.  Honestly I don't remember as I fell asleep while reading that chapter.
 I did like most of the book though.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 10, 2017, 01:33:21 PM
Just remember, 4 grams is 1 teaspoon.  Of gypsum.  According to John Palmer.

What type of teaspoon? I have at least four sizes.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 10, 2017, 01:37:34 PM
As to mass and volume: on the old continent the famous revolutionary scientist Rob Espierre discovered in 1792 that 1 liter of water weighs exactly 1 kilogram. For some reason or other this discovery never made its way to the new world. Probably blocked by the antirevolutionary powers that be.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: dmtaylor on January 10, 2017, 02:25:27 PM
As to mass and volume: on the old continent the famous revolutionary scientist Rob Espierre discovered in 1792 that 1 liter of water weighs exactly 1 kilogram. For some reason or other this discovery never made its way to the new world. Probably blocked by the antirevolutionary powers that be.

And a pint is a pound (approximately).
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: klickitat jim on January 10, 2017, 02:48:41 PM
Oh well... just grab a stick and make approximately waffles
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 10, 2017, 02:57:38 PM
Oh well... just grab a stick and make approximately waffles


Probably need a good approximately waffle iron for those.   :)
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 10, 2017, 03:01:39 PM
Is Paula Deen a big hit over there?

No, but I notice she uses the same makeup as your President-Elect. Is this a trend?
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 10, 2017, 03:11:14 PM
Is Paula Deen a big hit over there?

No, but I notice she uses the same makeup as your President-Elect. Is this a trend?


Kudos. Well done.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: Stevie on January 10, 2017, 03:17:53 PM
As to mass and volume: on the old continent the famous revolutionary scientist Rob Espierre discovered in 1792 that 1 liter of water weighs exactly 1 kilogram. For some reason or other this discovery never made its way to the new world. Probably blocked by the antirevolutionary powers that be.
Was it discovered or designed? I always thought pure water was used as the reference for mass for standardization reasons.

And a teaspoon is a specific volume equal to .3333 tablespoons, or .166667 fluid ounces, or .01042 pints, or .0013 gallons, or 0.00016281 bushels.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: homoeccentricus on January 10, 2017, 03:21:36 PM
As to mass and volume: on the old continent the famous revolutionary scientist Rob Espierre discovered in 1792 that 1 liter of water weighs exactly 1 kilogram. For some reason or other this discovery never made its way to the new world. Probably blocked by the antirevolutionary powers that be.
Was it discovered or designed? I always thought pure water was used as the reference for mass for standardization reasons.

That's what they WANT you to believe. You're being brainwashed.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: narvin on January 10, 2017, 03:42:36 PM
Just remember, 4 grams is 1 teaspoon.  Of gypsum.  According to John Palmer.

What type of teaspoon? I have at least four sizes.

Make sure it's a teaspoon that you would never use to spoon tea.  It has to be specially built to be non-functional for eating.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: pete b on January 10, 2017, 04:35:59 PM
It would be a step in the right direction if folks would understand the difference between by weight and by volume. Causes my turrets to flare up when folks convert or compare teaspoons to grams. A teaspoon of fluffy stuff weighs less than a teaspoon of dense stuff.
Right, but for some items this is accounted for. For example Reinhardt's bread books (and other foodie/hipster/pretentious books) give mass and volume. With salt he also gives the volume for kosher salt and table salt. Kosher salt is a little less dense due to its shape.

Mass is the far superior unit of measure for just about any dry loose material. Volume is arguably better for liquids as liquids can have varying densities.
I have been using mass for bread baking for awhile now and it makes a difference. I also use the scale for recipes in grams etc. instead of converting. Having a little scale that measures in different units makes it all easy.
Title: Re: why can't you people simply say...
Post by: beersk on January 21, 2017, 05:01:49 AM
Is Paula Deen a big hit over there?

No, but I notice she uses the same makeup as your President-Elect. Is this a trend?


Kudos. Well done.
Ha!!!