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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: weazletoe on March 20, 2017, 04:13:13 PM

Title: Yeast washing
Post by: weazletoe on March 20, 2017, 04:13:13 PM
 This is my first time washing yeast. This is US-05 at its second wash. Is it looking right so far? I've never done this so I'm not 100% sure what I'm doing.

(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd235/Weazletoe/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-03/20170320_083308_zps4i9elhmq.jpg) (http://s225.photobucket.com/user/Weazletoe/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-03/20170320_083308_zps4i9elhmq.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: a10t2 on March 20, 2017, 04:25:06 PM
Looks like a good harvest to me. What are you washing with? I've done acid washing on a commercial scale, but for a home brewer yeast is so cheap I wouldn't bother.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 20, 2017, 04:36:28 PM
There's no real need to wash it.  Just store it under some of the beer from the last ferment.

But, if you want to wash it, go ahead.  Look like you're doing it just fine.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: denny on March 20, 2017, 04:49:39 PM
Just stop that s***, Barry!  There's no advantage to it and it's just one more place you have a chance to screw up!
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: weazletoe on March 20, 2017, 05:38:21 PM
Just stop that s***, Barry!  There's no advantage to it and it's just one more place you have a chance to screw up!

Well tell me how you really feel!!!  ;D
 
 I'm only doing because, well, because. I figure why let all that yeast go to waste. Plus, I just like having beer related things to do in the evening.  But you do have a valid point, Denny. One more thing for me to screw up.
 
 As for what I''m washing it in, I guess I need to study up on yeast washing. I didn't think there was actual "washing" with any type of chemical involved. I just thought it was the process of letting the yeast settle on top of the trub, move to a new container, and repeat until you are left with basically all yeast.
 Looks like I have some reading to do tonight.
 
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: denny on March 20, 2017, 05:41:13 PM
Well tell me how you really feel!!!  ;D
 
 I'm only doing because, well, because. I figure why let all that yeast go to waste. Plus, I just like having beer related things to do in the evening.  But you do have a valid point, Denny. One more thing for me to screw up.
 
 As for what I''m washing it in, I guess I need to study up on yeast washing. I didn't think there was actual "washing" with any type of chemical involved. I just thought it was the process of letting the yeast settle on top of the trub, move to a new container, and repeat until you are left with basically all yeast.
 Looks like I have some reading to do tonight.

You don't have to wash it to reuse it.  I just pour the slurry into a sanitized container and keep it under beer in the fridge til I reuse it.  And you're right, what you're doing is rinsing it, not washing it.  But both are unnecessary.  The brewery I work for simply xfers slurry from one tank to another and they make award winning beers.  Stop taking unnecessary effort and put your time and effort into something that matters.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: stpug on March 20, 2017, 06:13:24 PM
You don't have to wash it to reuse it.  I just pour the slurry into a sanitized container and keep it under beer in the fridge til I reuse it.

^^^This is the most successful way of reusing yeast - bar none!  It's also very easy and quick to boot.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 20, 2017, 06:15:04 PM
You don't have to wash it to reuse it.  I just pour the slurry into a sanitized container and keep it under beer in the fridge til I reuse it.

^^^This is the most successful way of reusing yeast - bar none!  It's also very easy and quick to boot.




Yup. Same thing I do.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: brewinhard on March 20, 2017, 06:23:26 PM
+1. Stopped rinsing yeast years ago. Thought it was an unneccesary hassle.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: mabrungard on March 20, 2017, 07:02:46 PM
I notice that some Pro's are washing their yeast with chlorine dioxide with pretty good success. It looks pretty simple when using that active ingredient. Anyone have any experience with it?
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: denny on March 20, 2017, 07:04:44 PM
I notice that some Pro's are washing their yeast with chlorine dioxide with pretty good success. It looks pretty simple when using that active ingredient. Anyone have any experience with it?

No because I'm a homebrewer.  And what's "pretty good success"....what are they trying to accomplish?  What benefits would it have for a homebrewer?  Martin, sorry if it sounds like I'm getting on your case...that's not my intent.  I'm just sick of homebrewers assuming that everything a commercial brewer does is what they should be doing.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: weazletoe on March 20, 2017, 07:20:13 PM

   Stop taking unnecessary effort and put your time and effort into something that matters.

That's precious time I could be using to look for deals on cherry Jolly Ranchers!!!   :o
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: stpug on March 20, 2017, 07:33:54 PM
I notice that some Pro's are washing their yeast with chlorine dioxide with pretty good success. It looks pretty simple when using that active ingredient. Anyone have any experience with it?

No because I'm a homebrewer.  And what's "pretty good success"....what are they trying to accomplish?  What benefits would it have for a homebrewer?  Martin, sorry if it sounds like I'm getting on your case...that's not my intent.  I'm just sick of homebrewers assuming that everything a commercial brewer does is what they should be doing.

A while back I thought I had read that the process needs to remain in a cold environment and that the yeast would need to be used very quickly (like within an hour or two) after washing the yeast using this method because the process was so "hard" on them, and they would quickly lose vitality (and life) if too much time passed between washing and use.  Additionally, how well would the chlorine dioxide need to be rinsed from the washed yeast to ensure no carryover that could result in chlorophenol production.  I may be thinking of a different washing chemical, but I really think it was chlorine dioxide.

As for the commercial vs homebrewer, I can understand it to a point as well.  Commercial practices are generally in place to ensure the upmost quality and stability of the finished product, so I ask myself "why wouldn't I want the same for myself?"  The flip side is that I don't want to lose an eye; ruin my lungs; invest a ton of money; take up a portion of my house with a lab; or product subpar beer simply because a commercial brewer is doing it.  At the same rate, if the process is something as simple as "swishing the yeast in a benign solution a few minutes before using" and there's no risk of bodily/beer harm then I'd try it, and if the results were improvement in the beer then I may continue doing it.  Edit: The little bit of reading I did on chlorine dioxide sure makes it sound like it carries a risk level I wouldn't want to take.

But yeah, just because commercial breweries do things and produce good beer doesn't mean that we have to to produce good beer.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: a10t2 on March 20, 2017, 08:44:05 PM
I haven't washed yeast with chlorine dioxide, but it's my preferred brewery sanitizer, and I wouldn't recommend that anyone play around with it at home. A hood is all but mandatory for working with it in enclosed spaces.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: Jkrehbielp on March 20, 2017, 09:01:13 PM
One warning if you save yeast without washing. Be sure to use a starter to get the yeast going. I used to save yeast and just dump it into the next batch, but I got some very slow starts that way, allowing an infection to take hold.
Google Hafnia protea.

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Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: denny on March 20, 2017, 09:03:54 PM
One warning if you save yeast without washing. Be sure to use a starter to get the yeast going. I used to save yeast and just dump it into the next batch, but I got some very slow starts that way, allowing an infection to take hold.
Google Hafnia protea.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

My experience is that if I reuse it within say a month I don't need to restart.  Longer than that and I do.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: denny on March 20, 2017, 09:08:28 PM


A while back I thought I had read that the process needs to remain in a cold environment and that the yeast would need to be used very quickly (like within an hour or two) after washing the yeast using this method because the process was so "hard" on them, and they would quickly lose vitality (and life) if too much time passed between washing and use.  Additionally, how well would the chlorine dioxide need to be rinsed from the washed yeast to ensure no carryover that could result in chlorophenol production.  I may be thinking of a different washing chemical, but I really think it was chlorine dioxide.

As for the commercial vs homebrewer, I can understand it to a point as well.  Commercial practices are generally in place to ensure the upmost quality and stability of the finished product, so I ask myself "why wouldn't I want the same for myself?"  The flip side is that I don't want to lose an eye; ruin my lungs; invest a ton of money; take up a portion of my house with a lab; or product subpar beer simply because a commercial brewer is doing it.  At the same rate, if the process is something as simple as "swishing the yeast in a benign solution a few minutes before using" and there's no risk of bodily/beer harm then I'd try it, and if the results were improvement in the beer then I may continue doing it.  Edit: The little bit of reading I did on chlorine dioxide sure makes it sound like it carries a risk level I wouldn't want to take.

But yeah, just because commercial breweries do things and produce good beer doesn't mean that we have to to produce good beer.

I don't mean to imply that there's never any crossover between home and commercial brewing.  But a commercial breweries goals are different than ours...sure, we both want to make great beer, but they have customers, shipping, shelf stability and a host of other concerns that we don't have.  And the simple fact is that skipping a lot of commercial procedures doesn't translate to subpar beer at home.  And at the homebrew level, it's as easy to ruin yeast by washing it as it is to improve it.  Everybody gets to make their own decision, though.  Having tried saving yeast with rinsing and without, I can't find a justification for me to rinse it.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: Joe Sr. on March 20, 2017, 09:11:34 PM
One warning if you save yeast without washing. Be sure to use a starter to get the yeast going. I used to save yeast and just dump it into the next batch, but I got some very slow starts that way, allowing an infection to take hold.
Google Hafnia protea.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

That depends on how quickly you reuse it.  Definitely if it's older than 1 month I will build a starter.  The older it is, the longer it seems to need to get going again.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: stpug on March 20, 2017, 09:22:58 PM


A while back I thought I had read that the process needs to remain in a cold environment and that the yeast would need to be used very quickly (like within an hour or two) after washing the yeast using this method because the process was so "hard" on them, and they would quickly lose vitality (and life) if too much time passed between washing and use.  Additionally, how well would the chlorine dioxide need to be rinsed from the washed yeast to ensure no carryover that could result in chlorophenol production.  I may be thinking of a different washing chemical, but I really think it was chlorine dioxide.

As for the commercial vs homebrewer, I can understand it to a point as well.  Commercial practices are generally in place to ensure the upmost quality and stability of the finished product, so I ask myself "why wouldn't I want the same for myself?"  The flip side is that I don't want to lose an eye; ruin my lungs; invest a ton of money; take up a portion of my house with a lab; or product subpar beer simply because a commercial brewer is doing it.  At the same rate, if the process is something as simple as "swishing the yeast in a benign solution a few minutes before using" and there's no risk of bodily/beer harm then I'd try it, and if the results were improvement in the beer then I may continue doing it.  Edit: The little bit of reading I did on chlorine dioxide sure makes it sound like it carries a risk level I wouldn't want to take.

But yeah, just because commercial breweries do things and produce good beer doesn't mean that we have to to produce good beer.

I don't mean to imply that there's never any crossover between home and commercial brewing.  But a commercial breweries goals are different than ours...sure, we both want to make great beer, but they have customers, shipping, shelf stability and a host of other concerns that we don't have.  And the simple fact is that skipping a lot of commercial procedures doesn't translate to subpar beer at home.  And at the homebrew level, it's as easy to ruin yeast by washing it as it is to improve it.  Everybody gets to make their own decision, though.  Having tried saving yeast with rinsing and without, I can't find a justification for me to rinse it.

My apologies because I didn't mean to insinuate that skipping commercial procedures translates to subpar beer; I don't think that's the case at all.  Quite the opposite in fact.  My experience is that when I head to grab a beer, I usually have 3-4 taps running as well as a host of commercial craft beers available to me.  99% of the time I pour my own because, well, it's better beer.

And, yeah, the less we can handle the yeast the less our chances of contaminating the yeast, and our future beer.

I did the rinsing thing too for a couple years; washing, never.  The only thing I think I gained from it was a smaller jar in which to store the yeast, but that came at the cost of less yeast  :-\
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: JT on March 21, 2017, 04:14:40 PM
I'm mostly curious about pitch rates with saved slurry.  How much to use, etc.  I know this was a recent podcast topic, but I don't feel like it was explored enough.  I've been brewing for years now and have yet to save and re-use yeast.  I'm probably over thinking.  Do you repitch it all? Repitch a certain volume? 

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Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: Frankenbrew on March 21, 2017, 05:31:50 PM
One of the yeast calculators (I forget which one) gives a number of 1 billion cells per ml of fresh, densely settled slurry. I've always used that figure, and it has worked well for me.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: stpug on March 21, 2017, 06:01:39 PM
I'm mostly curious about pitch rates with saved slurry.  How much to use, etc.  I know this was a recent podcast topic, but I don't feel like it was explored enough.  I've been brewing for years now and have yet to save and re-use yeast.  I'm probably over thinking.  Do you repitch it all? Repitch a certain volume? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

I brew a 5 gallon, average gravity ale and assume the cake that remains is ideal for 3 same-volume, average-gravity batches of beer.  You could probably get 5 batches if you wanted or just split into two batches. Adjust usage for gravity and volume.  Basically, find what works for you and roll with it.

Lagers: the cake is suitable for 2 same-volume, average-gravity batches. Again, not too sophisticated but it works for me.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: SilverZero on March 21, 2017, 07:18:14 PM
One of the yeast calculators (I forget which one) gives a number of 1 billion cells per ml of fresh, densely settled slurry. I've always used that figure, and it has worked well for me.

I think that's about what I'm operating under as well. Without counting there's no way of knowing. So I just made a couple of "standard-ish" numbers to assume with all my slurry and stuck it to my fridge so I'll remember. I guessed pretty low on viable yeast and pretty high on non-yeast material just to be safe. That's where the "nuclear weapon" analogy comes into play.

Dumping slurry from a fermenter, unless it has been cold crashed and siphoned dry, usually ends up with enough beer of its own to split into about half slurry and half beer in the jar, so I don't need to add any to cover the slurry.

I use 8oz jars and assume that I've got about 50 billion cells in each jar if it's harvested slurry (jars not full, and no washing, so there's a good amount of non-cell material in there). If I overbuild a starter and save that, I assume I've got more like 100 billion cells (about 4oz of dense slurry). That's about 1 billion per mL, which fits what I've seen referenced other places.

I just started harvesting yeast, so I don't have a ton of experience, but my goal is to build a starter if it's past 1 month old, or if I am doing a full 10-gallon batch and don't want to use all of my harvested slurry jars up at once. Maybe I'll do a side-by-side of a starter and a straight pitch at 2 months to see how they compare.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: redzim on March 21, 2017, 08:29:04 PM
One warning if you save yeast without washing. Be sure to use a starter to get the yeast going. I used to save yeast and just dump it into the next batch, but I got some very slow starts that way, allowing an infection to take hold.
Google Hafnia protea.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

My experience is that if I reuse it within say a month I don't need to restart.  Longer than that and I do.

I do just this - store slurry under some beer, under refrigeration - and as long as it fresher than 1 month since harvest date, it starts off way faster, with better attenuation, than the first generation.  I have had good luck with the Mr Malty pitching rate calculator.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: denny on March 21, 2017, 08:31:14 PM
I brew a 5 gallon, average gravity ale and assume the cake that remains is ideal for 3 same-volume, average-gravity batches of beer.  You could probably get 5 batches if you wanted or just split into two batches. Adjust usage for gravity and volume.  Basically, find what works for you and roll with it.

Lagers: the cake is suitable for 2 same-volume, average-gravity batches. Again, not too sophisticated but it works for me.

Pretty much the same thing I do.  A slurry split 3 ways is great for 3 batches of normal (for me, up to maybe 1.070) ale.  Half a slurry is perfect for lagers or higher gravity ales.  I've stopped using yeast calculators.  I just find them unnecessary.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: a10t2 on March 21, 2017, 09:55:11 PM
Anecdote alert! Due to a move and several other delays, I was forced to repitch nearly 3-month old slurry (1272) last week. I slightly over-pitched to compensate, 0.90 M/mL-°P, and had visible fermentation inside 24 hours, reached FG on day 5, and have no flavor or aroma flaws that I can detect.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: JJeffers09 on March 22, 2017, 10:34:27 AM
If you are using a house strain, and you are taking a big style step, washing is important.  What I mean is, if you have a smoked ale, and your going to ferment an American pale ale, wash it.  If you have a highly hopped IPA and want to brew a Brown or wheat ale, wash it.  However, APA to IPA to IIPA who cares.  Not the reverse.  And by the time you get to that IIPA, wait to get 1/2 through the keg or bottles to make a decision on that slurry you saved.

To the side of, yeast is cheap just go buy some new.  Why homebrew? Isn't it cheaper to go buy the craft $10 six pack off the shelf?  Then isn't it cheaper to only brew extract vs all grain, and so on and so on.  Denny I get the point seems to be one more thing on a long list of things to worry about in the homebrewing process.  And to what purpose does it serve the homebrewer to wash yeast.  For me it doesn't take that much effort, and I get excited to have a whole new list of things to learn.  That is why, to me, we all share the greatest hobby there is.

To each his own.  If you want to take a stab at washing yeast there are plenty of places to screw it up, but the same can be said about making your own beer... ;)
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: SilverZero on March 22, 2017, 01:52:45 PM
Why homebrew? Isn't it cheaper to go buy the craft $10 six pack off the shelf?

I actually don't think this is true, at least not for me. All said, I think it costs me about 50 cents a bottle to brew my own. And don't give me any of that "what's your time worth?" crap. I'm a teacher - everybody knows my time is worthless. ;)

(I know you're just trying to make a point. I'm just avoiding my to-do list so I thought I'd reply. Sorry to go off-topic.)
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: JJeffers09 on March 22, 2017, 02:08:03 PM
Why homebrew? Isn't it cheaper to go buy the craft $10 six pack off the shelf?

I actually don't think this is true, at least not for me. All said, I think it costs me about 50 cents a bottle to brew my own. And don't give me any of that "what's your time worth?" crap. I'm a teacher - everybody knows my time is worthless. ;)

(I know you're just trying to make a point. I'm just avoiding my to-do list so I thought I'd reply. Sorry to go off-topic.)
How much did you pay for the equipment?

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Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: stpug on March 22, 2017, 04:38:21 PM
Why homebrew? Isn't it cheaper to go buy the craft $10 six pack off the shelf?

I actually don't think this is true, at least not for me. All said, I think it costs me about 50 cents a bottle to brew my own. And don't give me any of that "what's your time worth?" crap. I'm a teacher - everybody knows my time is worthless. ;)

(I know you're just trying to make a point. I'm just avoiding my to-do list so I thought I'd reply. Sorry to go off-topic.)
How much did you pay for the equipment?

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk

Just to answer your question from my perspective:

My equipment costs were paid up a looooooong time ago with today's craft beer cost.  A minimum difference of $1.50 per 12oz (homebrew vs commercial).

Let's say I spent $1500.00 on brewing equipment (I didn't; much less).
$1500/$1.50 = 1000 beers worth
1000/50 beers per 5 gallons = 20 batches

So the equipment was paid for on batch 20 (during my first year brewing) if I actually spent $1500 on equipment.  If I spent 3x that on equipment ($4500) it was paid for on batch 60 (end of second year brewing).  AND, this doesn't take into account the extra costs associated with high proof beer, specialty releases, sour beers, belgian beers, russian imperial stouts, etc.  There is HUGE savings in brewing your own beer, assuming you drink it and like it :D
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: Phil_M on March 22, 2017, 05:36:11 PM
FWIW, on the homebrew scale I think you're better off plating and stepping up a new culture vs. washing. Plating has the advantage of going back to something that's still definitely yeast, whereas washing you still might be stuck with whatever other microbe that's trying to rise to prominence.

Yeast may be cheap, but Mark used to mention that some strains only come into their own after being repitched 2 or 3 times, so that's a reason to repitch. Another is availability, I don't like shipping yeast during the summer, so why not repitch? I've also had no issues pitching yeast from a stout into an IPA.

And why not just buy craft beer? Because where I am it's all stale.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: weazletoe on March 22, 2017, 07:03:20 PM
Note to self.... never type into Google images "yeast infection" while eating lunch.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: HoosierBrew on March 22, 2017, 07:11:14 PM
Note to self.... never type into Google images "yeast infection" while eating lunch.


Working in the medical field, I can imagine the image wasn't very appetite friendly.   ;D
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: JJeffers09 on March 23, 2017, 06:27:24 PM
Why homebrew? Isn't it cheaper to go buy the craft $10 six pack off the shelf?

I actually don't think this is true, at least not for me. All said, I think it costs me about 50 cents a bottle to brew my own. And don't give me any of that "what's your time worth?" crap. I'm a teacher - everybody knows my time is worthless. ;)

(I know you're just trying to make a point. I'm just avoiding my to-do list so I thought I'd reply. Sorry to go off-topic.)
How much did you pay for the equipment?

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk

Just to answer your question from my perspective:

My equipment costs were paid up a looooooong time ago with today's craft beer cost.  A minimum difference of $1.50 per 12oz (homebrew vs commercial).

Let's say I spent $1500.00 on brewing equipment (I didn't; much less).
$1500/$1.50 = 1000 beers worth
1000/50 beers per 5 gallons = 20 batches

So the equipment was paid for on batch 20 (during my first year brewing) if I actually spent $1500 on equipment.  If I spent 3x that on equipment ($4500) it was paid for on batch 60 (end of second year brewing).  AND, this doesn't take into account the extra costs associated with high proof beer, specialty releases, sour beers, belgian beers, russian imperial stouts, etc.  There is HUGE savings in brewing your own beer, assuming you drink it and like it :D

So those 20 batches.  $22-$40 grist, $2.50- $13 hops, $2.50- $13 yeast, $.50 cleaning supplies, $5-6 water/adjustments, let's call maintenance on equip, $.50/batch

20($22+2.50+2.50+5+.5)= $650/1000 beers

$0.65/beer and let's say around $.37/beer macro-lager 30 rack...

Not including starters, or bottles/caps? Vs Keg, kegging equipment, upkeep, energy (not time and money electricity), fermentation vessels, infections, cleaning supplies, and how about Storage space?

I could get into the petty quibbles, however the point I was making is that there are plenty of perspectives to consider in this hobby.  If owning a yeast freezer, and vaulting your own strains, I say why not. 

Providing knowledge, therefore lending a hand on the subject to let others who are excited about yeast washing is better for the health of the forum vs  just nay saying the process.  Anyway, my $0.02 are in.  I'm gunna go back to my shenanigans.

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: SilverZero on March 23, 2017, 06:38:45 PM
Fair enough, but eventually we all reach a break-even point if that's our primary concern. For me, I'm not spending money on beer, I'm spending money on a hobby I enjoy, and getting free beer out of it. :)

We all choose which investments are worth it to us as individuals. I love the discussions about HOW to do something, because I love that they're there when I decide IF I want to do it. That's why I like these forums.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: stpug on March 23, 2017, 06:43:45 PM
Why homebrew? Isn't it cheaper to go buy the craft $10 six pack off the shelf?

I actually don't think this is true, at least not for me. All said, I think it costs me about 50 cents a bottle to brew my own. And don't give me any of that "what's your time worth?" crap. I'm a teacher - everybody knows my time is worthless. ;)

(I know you're just trying to make a point. I'm just avoiding my to-do list so I thought I'd reply. Sorry to go off-topic.)
How much did you pay for the equipment?

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk

Just to answer your question from my perspective:

My equipment costs were paid up a looooooong time ago with today's craft beer cost.  A minimum difference of $1.50 per 12oz (homebrew vs commercial).

Let's say I spent $1500.00 on brewing equipment (I didn't; much less).
$1500/$1.50 = 1000 beers worth
1000/50 beers per 5 gallons = 20 batches

So the equipment was paid for on batch 20 (during my first year brewing) if I actually spent $1500 on equipment.  If I spent 3x that on equipment ($4500) it was paid for on batch 60 (end of second year brewing).  AND, this doesn't take into account the extra costs associated with high proof beer, specialty releases, sour beers, belgian beers, russian imperial stouts, etc.  There is HUGE savings in brewing your own beer, assuming you drink it and like it :D

So those 20 batches.  $22-$40 grist, $2.50- $13 hops, $2.50- $13 yeast, $.50 cleaning supplies, $5-6 water/adjustments, let's call maintenance on equip, $.50/batch

20($22+2.50+2.50+5+.5)= $650/1000 beers

$0.65/beer and let's say around $.37/beer macro-lager 30 rack...

Not including starters, or bottles/caps? Vs Keg, kegging equipment, upkeep, energy (not time and money electricity), fermentation vessels, infections, cleaning supplies, and how about Storage space?

I could get into the petty quibbles, however the point I was making is that there are plenty of perspectives to consider in this hobby.  If owning a yeast freezer, and vaulting your own strains, I say why not. 

Providing knowledge, therefore lending a hand on the subject to let others who are excited about yeast washing is better for the health of the forum vs  just nay saying the process.  Anyway, my $0.02 are in.  I'm gunna go back to my shenanigans.

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk

UNCLE! You win, I suck.  ;D
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: JJeffers09 on March 23, 2017, 06:46:10 PM
No man not at all.  Noone on here sucks, that's what keeps me on the forum...

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Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: SilverZero on March 30, 2017, 10:15:43 PM
No man not at all.  Noone on here sucks, that's what keeps me on the forum...

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk

Ditto that. If you want to be told you suck, go to Reddit. :)
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: BrewBama on April 02, 2017, 02:10:17 PM
So, I've read -1 month pitch direct, +1 month make a starter. I even noted pitching after three months. ...but if one does decide the activity is worth the ROI of all cited resources, what is the shelf life of a saved slurry?  ...and does saving and reusing a dry pitch vs a liquid pitch make a difference?


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Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: JJeffers09 on April 02, 2017, 02:21:28 PM
Shelf life is more of a - does it need nutrients to jump out if it's lag phase quickly.  Aka starter.  I have reused both us05 slurry and liquid slurry.  I have noticed no difference in those brews after harvested yeast.  I will say, I enjoy the 'purer' top crop for harvesting ale yeast.  That comes with a fermenter with a wide enough opening to get a spoon in there to harvest your goodies.

I have used a 9 month old strain, built it up and fermented away.  No issues.  Slowly build up the slurry of ~10% of the slurry you have.   So I have a 50mL slurry I build it up like I only have 5mL.  So first starter is only 25mL of wort, then after I see active fermentation I add another 100mL of wort.  Then 500mL, etc until I reach the pitch amount I want.

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Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: ynotbrusum on April 04, 2017, 08:43:35 PM
One further thing I will add regarding re-pitching of yeast:  I suggest using yeast nutrient on the pitches (initial and subsequent).  When I didn't use the Wyeast nutrient blend, the yeast seemed to perform a bit poorly (seemingly a "flabbier" beer that just lacked what I found to be the case when I used the yeast nutrient.)  It seems a small price to pay for happy yeasties. 

I could be dead ass wrong, too, as I appreciate that I may be setting myself up for bias that could overcome my senses and leading me to the conclusion of a noticeable difference.  I imagine that someone has experimented on the topic, but I don't know for sure.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: Joe Sr. on April 04, 2017, 10:05:03 PM
I've used slurry that's over one-year old.  You can do it, but it may not be optimal.  Definitely grow a starter.  I like to use yeast nutrient in starters for older slurries as they can take awhile to get going.  I don't feel like I need nutrient for the pitch, but definitely to get the starter going.

I just made two batches with old slurry (stepped up in starters) and they came out great.  It was my last re-use for both of those yeasts, though.  There's an extent to frugality beyond which even I won't go at some point.
Title: Re: Yeast washing
Post by: el_capitan on April 05, 2017, 04:33:20 AM
I'm drinking a Belgian witbier that is amazing right now.  I revived an 18 month old jar of clean slurry stored under beer.  I started with a 1L stirred starter with nutrient, which took a while to wake up and ferment.  Then I ran it through a .5 gal apple juice starter (unstirred) as a step-up batch.  I crashed it in the fridge for a week or so, then brewed with it.  It did ferment out drier than expected, finishing at 1.004, but it's a great beer. 

So, long-term yeast ranching can be done, but I don't wash my yeast either.  I just swirl up the beer and yeast after racking, then fill sterilized jars and store under the shelf in my keg fridge.