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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: Hand of Dom on April 20, 2017, 03:04:16 PM

Title: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Hand of Dom on April 20, 2017, 03:04:16 PM
Has anyone used it?  How does it compare to Belle Saison or WY3711?

I'm planning on making Drew's Springtime in Amarillo saison, and whilst I can source the the MJ yeast at my LHBS, I'd have to order online for the WY3711.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Philbrew on April 22, 2017, 02:10:43 AM
Has anyone used it?  How does it compare to Belle Saison or WY3711?

I'm planning on making Drew's Springtime in Amarillo saison, and whilst I can source the the MJ yeast at my LHBS, I'd have to order online for the WY3711.
I'd say "go for it".  I haven't tried that one (maybe soon though) but I've had very good results with several MJ yeasts. 
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Hand of Dom on April 24, 2017, 08:29:43 AM
I think you're right.  It'll save me having to pay postage, and I'll then know whether the yeast is something I'd like to use regularly.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: coolman26 on April 24, 2017, 02:08:19 PM
Add feedback on your experience with it if you don't mind.


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Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: erockrph on April 24, 2017, 03:21:05 PM
Add feedback on your experience with it if you don't mind.

Yes, please. I know others prefer more traditional saison strains, but 3711/Belle is one of my personal favorites.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Hand of Dom on April 26, 2017, 10:00:35 AM
I certainly will.  I've mostly used WLP565 for saisons, but find it better suited for traditionally hopped saisons, rather than new world hops.  Got to get my kegerator built first, and then it's getting brewed.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Hand of Dom on May 30, 2017, 10:19:00 AM
Brewed this on Saturday, as my keg was empty (kegerator still not built), using the MJ yeast, and low colour Maris Otter rather than pilsner.  Rehydrated as per MJ instructions, took a while (16hrs or so) to see the yeast take off (not used dry yeast for ages, usually pitch a SNS starter).  Will provide more feedback when I start taking gravity samples.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Andy Farke on May 30, 2017, 02:36:48 PM
Has anyone used it?  How does it compare to Belle Saison or WY3711?

I'm planning on making Drew's Springtime in Amarillo saison, and whilst I can source the the MJ yeast at my LHBS, I'd have to order online for the WY3711.

I just brewed a saison with that about three weeks ago, pitching two packets into a five gallon batch and fermenting at 80 degrees. Grain bill was 86% pilsner, 7% Munich, 7% white wheat, and a touch of Carafa Special III, with a single infusion rest of 149 degrees with batch sparge.

Fermentation was fast, vigorous, and otherwise uneventful. It attenuated out as far as predicted by my software and given my grain bill and mash parameters. I kegged the beer after 8 days, and have been drinking it for a few days now. In my first impressions, the beer has a nice fruity flavor and aroma, with a pleasant tartness alongside.

I brewed with WLP565 (White Labs Belgian Saison I) previously; my recollection is that it had more of the spicy and fewer of the fruit notes as compared to the MJ strain. That said, I don't know how MJ would behave differently at a lower temperature (in the mid-70's, say, rather than the lower 80's). Anyone have experience with different fermentation temperatures on that?

Details on the recipe are here: https://andybrews.com/2017/05/12/thumbspike-saison-2-0/

and preliminary impressions are here: https://andybrews.com/2017/05/28/big-batch-update/
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: erockrph on May 30, 2017, 03:07:34 PM
Has anyone used it?  How does it compare to Belle Saison or WY3711?

I'm planning on making Drew's Springtime in Amarillo saison, and whilst I can source the the MJ yeast at my LHBS, I'd have to order online for the WY3711.

I just brewed a saison with that about three weeks ago, pitching two packets into a five gallon batch and fermenting at 80 degrees. Grain bill was 86% pilsner, 7% Munich, 7% white wheat, and a touch of Carafa Special III, with a single infusion rest of 149 degrees with batch sparge.

Fermentation was fast, vigorous, and otherwise uneventful. It attenuated out as far as predicted by my software and given my grain bill and mash parameters. I kegged the beer after 8 days, and have been drinking it for a few days now. In my first impressions, the beer has a nice fruity flavor and aroma, with a pleasant tartness alongside.

I brewed with WLP565 (White Labs Belgian Saison I) previously; my recollection is that it had more of the spicy and fewer of the fruit notes as compared to the MJ strain. That said, I don't know how MJ would behave differently at a lower temperature (in the mid-70's, say, rather than the lower 80's). Anyone have experience with different fermentation temperatures on that?

Details on the recipe are here: https://andybrews.com/2017/05/12/thumbspike-saison-2-0/

and preliminary impressions are here: https://andybrews.com/2017/05/28/big-batch-update/
Fruity, tart, less spicy... Sounds a whole lot like 3711 and Belle to me

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Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: bayareabrewer on May 30, 2017, 04:41:47 PM
whats the body and mouthfeel like? 3711 and Belle make the beer feel to gelatinous for my tastes.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Andy Farke on May 31, 2017, 03:45:10 AM
whats the body and mouthfeel like? 3711 and Belle make the beer feel to gelatinous for my tastes.

For mine, it's fairly dry, although I think the fruitiness definitely gives the perception of a "rounder" mouthfeel than I would necessarily expect based on attenuation alone (92%, from 1.055 down to 1.004). I can't say I would describe it as gelatinous, though.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Hand of Dom on May 31, 2017, 09:35:38 AM
Has anyone used it?  How does it compare to Belle Saison or WY3711?

I'm planning on making Drew's Springtime in Amarillo saison, and whilst I can source the the MJ yeast at my LHBS, I'd have to order online for the WY3711.

I just brewed a saison with that about three weeks ago, pitching two packets into a five gallon batch and fermenting at 80 degrees. Grain bill was 86% pilsner, 7% Munich, 7% white wheat, and a touch of Carafa Special III, with a single infusion rest of 149 degrees with batch sparge.

Fermentation was fast, vigorous, and otherwise uneventful. It attenuated out as far as predicted by my software and given my grain bill and mash parameters. I kegged the beer after 8 days, and have been drinking it for a few days now. In my first impressions, the beer has a nice fruity flavor and aroma, with a pleasant tartness alongside.

I brewed with WLP565 (White Labs Belgian Saison I) previously; my recollection is that it had more of the spicy and fewer of the fruit notes as compared to the MJ strain. That said, I don't know how MJ would behave differently at a lower temperature (in the mid-70's, say, rather than the lower 80's). Anyone have experience with different fermentation temperatures on that?

Details on the recipe are here: https://andybrews.com/2017/05/12/thumbspike-saison-2-0/

and preliminary impressions are here: https://andybrews.com/2017/05/28/big-batch-update/

Hi Andy - what temperature did you ferment at?  I've had it at 18c for the first 3 days, and have lifted it to 20c, planning on gradually lifting it to about 23c to finish off.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Andy Farke on June 01, 2017, 02:50:16 AM
Hi Andy - what temperature did you ferment at?  I've had it at 18c for the first 3 days, and have lifted it to 20c, planning on gradually lifting it to about 23c to finish off.

I fermented pretty hot...26c. Would love to compare notes with how your lower temp turns out!
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Hand of Dom on June 04, 2017, 01:23:59 PM
Took my first gravity reading this morning - 1.008 after 8 days, down from 1.062 at pitching, currently sitting at 23c.  Plan on leaving it at 23c until Thursday, and then crash to 3c and keg on Saturday.  This is of course dependent on the gravity stabilising (will take readings on Tuesday and Thursday).
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: HoosierBrew on June 04, 2017, 02:34:19 PM
Took my first gravity reading this morning - 1.008 after 8 days, down from 1.062 at pitching, currently sitting at 23c.  Plan on leaving it at 23c until Thursday, and then crash to 3c and keg on Saturday.  This is of course dependent on the gravity stabilising (will take readings on Tuesday and Thursday).


FWIW Saison strains (and Belgians in general) get most of their attenuation done fairly quickly, but the yeast can be slow to eat the last few points. Personally. I never package a saison before 3 weeks. If this strain really is a 3711 type strain, it could easily end up 1.004-1.002 (or even less).
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: coolman26 on June 04, 2017, 11:07:58 PM
Took my first gravity reading this morning - 1.008 after 8 days, down from 1.062 at pitching, currently sitting at 23c.  Plan on leaving it at 23c until Thursday, and then crash to 3c and keg on Saturday.  This is of course dependent on the gravity stabilising (will take readings on Tuesday and Thursday).


FWIW Saison strains (and Belgians in general) get most of their attenuation done fairly quickly, but the yeast can be slow to eat the last few points. Personally. I never package a saison before 3 weeks. If this strain really is a 3711 type strain, it could easily end up 1.004-1.002 (or even less).
100% agree with this


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Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Philbrew on June 05, 2017, 05:54:30 AM
Took my first gravity reading this morning - 1.008 after 8 days, down from 1.062 at pitching, currently sitting at 23c.  Plan on leaving it at 23c until Thursday, and then crash to 3c and keg on Saturday.  This is of course dependent on the gravity stabilising (will take readings on Tuesday and Thursday).


FWIW Saison strains (and Belgians in general) get most of their attenuation done fairly quickly, but the yeast can be slow to eat the last few points. Personally. I never package a saison before 3 weeks. If this strain really is a 3711 type strain, it could easily end up 1.004-1.002 (or even less).
100% agree with this


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Yes, yes!  That can work out another .001-.005 easily. 
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Hand of Dom on June 06, 2017, 08:40:49 AM
Yeah, that's why I was going to take further readings, and it was dependent on the gravity stabilising.  Also, as I'm kegging this rather than bottling, I'm less concerned about it being totally finished.  Completely agree if I was bottling though, having learnt the hard way with exploding bottles (the super strong belgian ones too) on an early saison.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: HoosierBrew on June 06, 2017, 12:13:56 PM
Yeah, that's why I was going to take further readings, and it was dependent on the gravity stabilising.  Also, as I'm kegging this rather than bottling, I'm less concerned about it being totally finished.  Completely agree if I was bottling though, having learnt the hard way with exploding bottles (the super strong belgian ones too) on an early saison.


Just my opinion - your saison will be more authentic and you'll like it better if it finishes. A dry 1.004 or less saison is much better than a 1.008. $0.02.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Hand of Dom on June 06, 2017, 12:30:39 PM
Yeah, that's why I was going to take further readings, and it was dependent on the gravity stabilising.  Also, as I'm kegging this rather than bottling, I'm less concerned about it being totally finished.  Completely agree if I was bottling though, having learnt the hard way with exploding bottles (the super strong belgian ones too) on an early saison.


Just my opinion - your saison will be more authentic and you'll like it better if it finishes. A dry 1.004 or less saison is much better than a 1.008. $0.02.

No probs, I didn't mean to give the idea that I didn't value your opinion.  I'll just keg it when the gravity stops dropping, if it finishes at 1.008 or 1.002 then so be it. 
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Hand of Dom on June 06, 2017, 12:37:23 PM
Just taken another gravity reading, it's now at 1.004.  Hopefully that'll be it done, but will take another reading on Thursday.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: HoosierBrew on June 06, 2017, 01:34:52 PM
Just taken another gravity reading, it's now at 1.004.  Hopefully that'll be it done, but will take another reading on Thursday.


Awesome. It's a beast of a strain if it's 3711 based. Could go lower!
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Hand of Dom on June 12, 2017, 11:08:47 AM
I kegged this on Saturday - it ended up finishing around 1.002 in the end.  Had a try of it prior to carbonating, and it definitely tastes like a saison.  Just trying to work out the correct length of beer line for the kegerator (getting a rather slow flow with 5' of 3/16" line).
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Hand of Dom on June 15, 2017, 10:30:07 AM
Had a pint of this last night, and I'm pleased with the results.  It's not what I expected, in that I was expecting a hop forward beer, with the yeast providing some complexity, and this beer is definitely yeast driven, with a little hoppy backnotes (despite me fermenting slightly below the recommended temp range).  I'd definitely use the yeast again, it was very easy to deal with and has the benefit of being stocked by my LHBS.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Iliff Ave Brewhouse on June 15, 2017, 02:06:09 PM
Had a pint of this last night, and I'm pleased with the results.  It's not what I expected, in that I was expecting a hop forward beer, with the yeast providing some complexity, and this beer is definitely yeast driven, with a little hoppy backnotes (despite me fermenting slightly below the recommended temp range).  I'd definitely use the yeast again, it was very easy to deal with and has the benefit of being stocked by my LHBS.

Thanks for the update. Would you say that it is indeed similar to 3711 and perhaps Belle Sasion?
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Hand of Dom on June 15, 2017, 02:08:11 PM
I've never used those, so can't really comment.


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Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Hand of Dom on June 15, 2017, 02:41:11 PM
It reminded me of the yeast profile I got from WLP565 when I tried to make a Dupont clone.  I'll try a bottle of Dupont tonight and compare.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: zwiller on June 15, 2017, 03:47:19 PM
Can't wait for someone to assemble a dry yeast origin chart... 
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: bayareabrewer on June 15, 2017, 04:41:11 PM
I've never used those, so can't really comment.


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hows the mouthfeel and body of the beer?
Title: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: jFrode on June 16, 2017, 01:05:28 AM
I just did a batch with a big load of citra at flame out. It went from 1.050 to 1.005 in 7 days. Had it 19c for thre days and 24c for four days. Not happy with the citra part. I hope it will mellow out a bit over time. I wish I had used some noble hops instead. The yeast character is quite subdued, but it is definitely seasonish. It carbed up and cleared in the bottle after four days. I have had one bottle already, and while it is drinkable now, I think it will be quite nice in a few weeks when the citra mellows out a bit. I am happy with the yeast. I don't think it is quite the same as belle, but is it somewhat close. With 8 grams of sugar per liter, it is maybe a bit to carbonated. Next try will be a low gravity with 30 rye and noble hops. A bit warmer fermented probably. I somewhat think that will be a winner for hot summer days.


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Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: FermentedCulture on July 04, 2017, 09:54:51 PM
I think I remember reading that the S. diastaticus strain sold under the name French Saison is apparently from a French brewery but they get the stock from a Belgian yeast bank.
Title: Re: Mangrove Jacks French Saison strain
Post by: Hand of Dom on July 10, 2017, 11:05:59 AM
Had a pint of this last night, and I'm pleased with the results.  It's not what I expected, in that I was expecting a hop forward beer, with the yeast providing some complexity, and this beer is definitely yeast driven, with a little hoppy backnotes (despite me fermenting slightly below the recommended temp range).  I'd definitely use the yeast again, it was very easy to deal with and has the benefit of being stocked by my LHBS.

Thanks for the update. Would you say that it is indeed similar to 3711 and perhaps Belle Sasion?

Having drunk a commercial beer made with WY3711 last week, I think they are probably the same yeast, or at least very similar.