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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: curtdogg on August 15, 2017, 05:20:52 AM

Title: First lager brew.
Post by: curtdogg on August 15, 2017, 05:20:52 AM
I feel like I can brew a pretty good hoppy ale. I would like to take on my first lager.
I'm guessing I'm going to keep the grain bill pretty simple and use a balanced water profile. My LHBS has some dry yeast and white labs pure pitch.
Any tips, advise, recipes would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
Curtis.

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Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: Nathan on August 15, 2017, 05:40:47 AM
If you cant control your temperature you will not get a true lager


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Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: curtdogg on August 15, 2017, 11:12:12 AM
Temp control isn't an issue.

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Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: 69franx on August 15, 2017, 12:03:36 PM
Think my first was a pilsner from the will here from Ron  "Bluesman" who has since fine pro. 100% pilsner, Hallertauer Mittelfrueh at 60, 1,and zero to about 30 ibus. Fermented 1/2 with 830 and half with 833. Pretty darn simple and delicious. Had to rebrew 2.5 months later because it was so popular. Ferment at 50

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Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: sn00ky on August 15, 2017, 12:25:57 PM
Patience, it's hard to sit at wait for it, but worth it.  I lager 4 weeks minimum.

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Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: curtdogg on August 15, 2017, 01:15:18 PM
I do love a good pilsner.
A few things I'm not clear on when it comes to lagering.
1. Is a Diacytal rest part of fermentation or lagering?
2. After fermentation is complete can I Lager in a keg or do I want to keep it in primary on the yeast with an airlock?


Thanks.

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Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: dls5492 on August 15, 2017, 01:30:11 PM
I do love a good pilsner.
A few things I'm not clear on when it comes to lagering.
1. Is a Diacytal rest part of fermentation or lagering?
2. After fermentation is complete can I Lager in a keg or do I want to keep it in primary on the yeast with an airlock?


Thanks.

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1. Diacytal rest is done at the end of fermentation. You ramp up to 62-64 degrees for a couple of days. It cleans up mainly sulfur the yeast produces. But, if you have good temperature control, it may not be necessary. Others on this board can help fill you in on this.
2. You should have no problem lagering in a keg.
Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: curtdogg on August 15, 2017, 08:49:12 PM
Think my first was a pilsner from the will here from Ron  "Bluesman" who has since fine pro. 100% pilsner, Hallertauer Mittelfrueh at 60, 1,and zero to about 30 ibus. Fermented 1/2 with 830 and half with 833. Pretty darn simple and delicious. Had to rebrew 2.5 months later because it was so popular. Ferment at 50

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Thank you, any advise for the water?.

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Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: denny on August 15, 2017, 09:13:05 PM
Think my first was a pilsner from the will here from Ron  "Bluesman" who has since fine pro. 100% pilsner, Hallertauer Mittelfrueh at 60, 1,and zero to about 30 ibus. Fermented 1/2 with 830 and half with 833. Pretty darn simple and delicious. Had to rebrew 2.5 months later because it was so popular. Ferment at 50

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Thank you, any advise for the water?.

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I like German pils and the boiled Jever profile from Brunwater works great for it.
Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: curtdogg on August 15, 2017, 09:14:41 PM
Think my first was a pilsner from the will here from Ron  "Bluesman" who has since fine pro. 100% pilsner, Hallertauer Mittelfrueh at 60, 1,and zero to about 30 ibus. Fermented 1/2 with 830 and half with 833. Pretty darn simple and delicious. Had to rebrew 2.5 months later because it was so popular. Ferment at 50

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Thank you, any advise for the water?.

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I like German pils and the boiled Jever profile from Brunwater works great for it.
Thanks Denny. You da man!

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Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: curtdogg on August 16, 2017, 12:23:53 PM
Is a 90 minute boil absolutely necessary for pilsner malt?

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Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 16, 2017, 01:15:51 PM
Is a 90 minute boil absolutely necessary for pilsner malt?

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There have been several sources state that with modern malts, a 60 minute boil is enough to drive off the DMS with Pils Malt.
Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: curtdogg on August 16, 2017, 02:01:27 PM
Is a 90 minute boil absolutely necessary for pilsner malt?

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There have been several sources state that with modern malts, a 60 minute boil is enough to drive off the DMS with Pils Malt.
I use 80% pils malt in my belgian ales and I've never had an issue but I am not familiar with lager yeast and how the boil would effect the fermentation.
Also with my new Robobrew system, it doesn't have a very vigorous boil.


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Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: denny on August 16, 2017, 02:26:09 PM
Is a 90 minute boil absolutely necessary for pilsner malt?

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Not in my experience with any of the pils malts I use.
Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: curtdogg on August 17, 2017, 03:20:03 AM
Think my first was a pilsner from the will here from Ron  "Bluesman" who has since fine pro. 100% pilsner, Hallertauer Mittelfrueh at 60, 1,and zero to about 30 ibus. Fermented 1/2 with 830 and half with 833. Pretty darn simple and delicious. Had to rebrew 2.5 months later because it was so popular. Ferment at 50

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Thank you, any advise for the water?.

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I like German pils and the boiled Jever profile from Brunwater works great for it.
I'm having issues with excel, I can't view bru n water or any of my calculators.
I found a braukaiser German pilsner water profile on brewers friend. I wonder if it's similar Jever?

Ca: 59
Mg: 6
Na: 8
Cl: 68
S04: 88
Totals are ppm.

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Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: The Beerery on August 17, 2017, 01:10:04 PM
Is a 90 minute boil absolutely necessary for pilsner malt?

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With the fervor at which us homebrewrs boil, this is not a thing. DMS is also a pH thing, the higher the pH the faster the removal. I am able to reliably produce dms with a low pH (5.2 at mash and  start of boil), a low boil off% (sub 6%) and a 60 minute boil. So it can be a thing, just a FYI, and its horrible.
Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: curtdogg on August 17, 2017, 01:37:52 PM
Is a 90 minute boil absolutely necessary for pilsner malt?

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With the fervor at which us homebrewrs boil, this is not a thing. DMS is also a pH thing, the higher the pH the faster the removal. I am able to reliably produce dms with a low pH (5.2 at mash and  start of boil), a low boil off% (sub 6%) and a 60 minute boil. So it can be a thing, just a FYI, and its horrible.
If I'm reading this correctly. During your experiments you were able to produce DMS,  and in order to avoid it I should..

Keep mash pH higher than 5.2.
Boil off rate should be above 6% for 90 minutes.

I should probably start with a small batch and see what works for my system.


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Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: The Beerery on August 17, 2017, 01:45:59 PM
Is a 90 minute boil absolutely necessary for pilsner malt?

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With the fervor at which us homebrewrs boil, this is not a thing. DMS is also a pH thing, the higher the pH the faster the removal. I am able to reliably produce dms with a low pH (5.2 at mash and  start of boil), a low boil off% (sub 6%) and a 60 minute boil. So it can be a thing, just a FYI, and its horrible.
If I'm reading this correctly. During your experiments you were able to produce DMS,  and in order to avoid it I should..

Keep mash pH higher than 5.2.
Boil off rate should be above 6% for 90 minutes.

I should probably start with a small batch and see what works for my system.


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I am just a single data point. I am not telling you really what to avoid, but more so what I have seen.

It's a tough dilemma: As there are draw backs to changing any of those variables.

What I have done with my system is to start to mash a little higher say 5.4, then I keep all other variables the same.

I get a little less oxidation reduction potential from the pH, but I get more alpha activity.

Boiling longer than 60 min can hurt foam, but may rid DMS if you have an issue. I wouldn't jump from 60 right to 90 if there is a problem, I would use increments of 10 minutes. YOu can smell when the DMS is gone.
Title: Re: First lager brew.
Post by: curtdogg on August 17, 2017, 01:56:21 PM
Is a 90 minute boil absolutely necessary for pilsner malt?

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With the fervor at which us homebrewrs boil, this is not a thing. DMS is also a pH thing, the higher the pH the faster the removal. I am able to reliably produce dms with a low pH (5.2 at mash and  start of boil), a low boil off% (sub 6%) and a 60 minute boil. So it can be a thing, just a FYI, and its horrible.
If I'm reading this correctly. During your experiments you were able to produce DMS,  and in order to avoid it I should..

Keep mash pH higher than 5.2.
Boil off rate should be above 6% for 90 minutes.

I should probably start with a small batch and see what works for my system.


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I am just a single data point. I am not telling you really what to avoid, but more so what I have seen.

It's a tough dilemma: As there are draw backs to changing any of those variables.

What I have done with my system is to start to mash a little higher say 5.4, then I keep all other variables the same.

I get a little less oxidation reduction potential from the pH, but I get more alpha activity.

Boiling longer than 60 min can hurt foam, but may rid DMS if you have an issue. I wouldn't jump from 60 right to 90 if there is a problem, I would use increments of 10 minutes. YOu can smell when the DMS is gone.
I appreciate your input Bryan. I will take everyones help into consideration during that brew day.

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