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General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: snowtiger87 on October 06, 2017, 09:50:06 PM

Title: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: snowtiger87 on October 06, 2017, 09:50:06 PM
This is the grain bill from the Celebration clone recipe in the July/August 2017 Zymurgy issue.

12 lb. (5.44 kg) UK pale malt
1 lb. (0.45 kg) 60° L crystal malt
8 oz. (227 g) 80° L crystal malt
8 oz. (227 g) dextrin malt
2 oz. (57 g) chocolate malt

I plan to bump the recipe up to 11 gallons and am thinking the following:

- I don't see any reason for dextrin malt in the recipe so I will leave it out. With the specialty grains and starting OG I think this beer will have plenty of mouthfeel.

- 2 lbs of crystal 60 and 1 lb of crystal 80 seem like WAY too much so I think I will go with 1.5 lbs of crystal 60 and stay at .5 lb of crystal 80

- I think I will stay with only 2 oz of chocolate malt for 11 gallons unless the color doesn't seem red enough and then I will cold steep the other 2 oz and strain into the boil

Thoughts ?
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 07, 2017, 12:25:15 AM
Good to see a post from you.

On the Sierra Nevada site they have a different malt bill.

http://www.sierranevada.com/beer/seasonal/celebration-ale
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: natebriscoe on October 08, 2017, 01:15:54 AM
In past years they have published a much different recipe.
Like 90% 2row, 10% c60.
Check out BYO DEC 2012
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: snowtiger87 on October 09, 2017, 08:39:18 PM
Hmm, so no chocolate malt huh? The Sierra Nevada site doesn't give me an SRM but I can make a good guess. I have to plug the numbers but here is what I am thinking:

12 lb. (5.44 kg) 2 row malt
1 lb. (0.45 kg) 60° L crystal malt
8 oz. (227 g) 120° L crystal malt

Then have 2 oz chocolate malt on hand in case it is not red enough.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: denny on October 10, 2017, 03:06:43 PM
Hmm, so no chocolate malt huh? The Sierra Nevada site doesn't give me an SRM but I can make a good guess. I have to plug the numbers but here is what I am thinking:

12 lb. (5.44 kg) 2 row malt
1 lb. (0.45 kg) 60° L crystal malt
8 oz. (227 g) 120° L crystal malt

Then have 2 oz chocolate malt on hand in case it is not red enough.

Still off.  Nothing but pale and 60L.  I guarantee it.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: snowtiger87 on October 10, 2017, 06:35:02 PM
Thanks Denny. I will take your word for it. Seems like a lot of crystal malt to me but how about this:

12 lb. (5.44 kg) 2 row malt
2 lb. (0.45 kg) 60° L crystal malt

That comes to a SRM of 13.85. Doesn't seem red enough but I will try it and can still "cheat" if the color doesn't turn out right. I will adjust my mash temps so it doesn't turn out to be a crystal bomb.

I have fresh Cascade, Chinook, and Centennial hops arriving soon to use.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: denny on October 10, 2017, 07:43:59 PM
Thanks Denny. I will take your word for it. Seems like a lot of crystal malt to me but how about this:

12 lb. (5.44 kg) 2 row malt
2 lb. (0.45 kg) 60° L crystal malt

That comes to a SRM of 13.85. Doesn't seem red enough but I will try it and can still "cheat" if the color doesn't turn out right. I will adjust my mash temps so it doesn't turn out to be a crystal bomb.

I have fresh Cascade, Chinook, and Centennial hops arriving soon to use.

More pale, less crystal.  Here's the recipe you want to use.....https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=9525.msg117411#msg117411

I was at Beer Camp at SN when they were brewing it and can verify that this is the recipe they used.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: santoch on October 17, 2017, 03:18:59 AM
Denny-
By chance, does SN use a mash press? 

I ask because I have it on very good authority (ie, one of their brewers) from another North Western brewery that does and as a result, the grain bills they use don't match what we can get out of our homebrew setups. 

We were trying to clone their flagship, and turned to him for guidance.  While he couldn't and didn't give us the recipe (contractually could not), he hinted that we were using far more dark grains than they do.  Their mash press seems to produce a multiplier effect on the medium and dark malts that yields far higher SRM than we typically get at home.

Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 17, 2017, 12:32:46 PM
No they have lauter tuns. The brewing systems are GE Huppmann. 

Is the PNW brewery you refer to in Alaska?
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: mabrungard on October 17, 2017, 12:56:49 PM
I ask because I have it on very good authority (ie, one of their brewers) from another North Western brewery that does and as a result, the grain bills they use don't match what we can get out of our homebrew setups. 

Um, I'm going to have to call: BS. Using a mash press does not change the character of the wort that is expressed from the grist. It just helps speed the lautering. If it were true, all the BIAB brewers would be reporting the differences.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: santoch on October 18, 2017, 02:57:35 AM
Is the PNW brewery you refer to in Alaska?

Yup
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: santoch on October 18, 2017, 03:00:02 AM
I ask because I have it on very good authority (ie, one of their brewers) from another North Western brewery that does and as a result, the grain bills they use don't match what we can get out of our homebrew setups. 

Um, I'm going to have to call: BS. Using a mash press does not change the character of the wort that is expressed from the grist. It just helps speed the lautering. If it were true, all the BIAB brewers would be reporting the differences.

We couldn't come close to the SRM they get.  Not even close.
The brewer is a good friend.  He wouldn't lie to me.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: Iliff Ave Brewhouse on October 18, 2017, 02:07:15 PM
From memory isn't Celebration a deep red/copper color? I don't see how the color estimate of under 10 SRM from Denny's clone recipe would get to that hue. It seems there has to be some explanation...

Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: stpug on October 18, 2017, 03:25:51 PM
Thanks Denny. I will take your word for it. Seems like a lot of crystal malt to me but how about this:

12 lb. (5.44 kg) 2 row malt
2 lb. (0.45 kg) 60° L crystal malt

That comes to a SRM of 13.85. Doesn't seem red enough but I will try it and can still "cheat" if the color doesn't turn out right. I will adjust my mash temps so it doesn't turn out to be a crystal bomb.

I have fresh Cascade, Chinook, and Centennial hops arriving soon to use.

You've probably already brewed this but here's my take: I think you're essentially going for a "red" beer color, and generally speaking a 13srm coupled with excellent clarity will produce a nice "red" beer color.  Granted, srm colors output by softwares are only an estimation so it may take a couple brews to dial in the perfect color you're after but 13srm is a great place to start.  Color can be affected by many factors so nailing a perfect color and flavor may take a few batches to dial in when you have a good starting point.

As far as your recipe above, I would dial down the C60 a smidge and roll with it for a first iteration.  Maybe 1.5-1.75lbs C60, and the rest base malt to hit your OG.  Couple this with 1056 yeast, a reasonable mash temp and you should hit 80% attenuation.  The crystal will come through (that's the point) but should not be overly sweet due to the attenuation and characteristics of 1056.  Clarify the beer however you choose - just get it nicely clear to get a beautiful red, otherwise you'll be in brownish-red territory. Hit the hopping as desired.

If you miss the mark this time, adjust next time.  It's beer!  It's good!  Drink up! :D
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: denny on October 18, 2017, 05:14:48 PM
From memory isn't Celebration a deep red/copper color? I don't see how the color estimate of under 10 SRM from Denny's clone recipe would get to that hue. It seems there has to be some explanation...

What can I say?  I watched it being brewed and saw the ingredients.  I talked to Steve Dresler about the recipe.  The recipe I posted is what they tell me they use.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 18, 2017, 09:02:15 PM
From memory isn't Celebration a deep red/copper color? I don't see how the color estimate of under 10 SRM from Denny's clone recipe would get to that hue. It seems there has to be some explanation...

What can I say?  I watched it being brewed and saw the ingredients.  I talked to Steve Dresler about the recipe.  The recipe I posted is what they tell me they use.
I think it was on a BN pod cast he rattled off the recipe for a 200 bbl batch.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: narcout on October 19, 2017, 04:08:46 PM
It's interesting that they only use pale malt and C-60 in both SNPA and Celebration.

I use C-80 in my Celebration-style IPA (or however you want to classify it), and it's pretty close to the real thing.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: denny on October 19, 2017, 04:20:03 PM
It's interesting that they only use pale malt and C-60 in both SNPA and Celebration.

I use C-80 in my Celebration-style IPA (or however you want to classify it), and it's pretty close to the real thing.

No doubt, but I can say the same about using C60.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 19, 2017, 04:25:39 PM
It's interesting that they only use pale malt and C-60 in both SNPA and Celebration.

I use C-80 in my Celebration-style IPA (or however you want to classify it), and it's pretty close to the real thing.
They only stock C-60, so it is always on hand, the wrong crystal malt can’t be used. I can’t remember if it is an American or British crystal.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: narcout on October 19, 2017, 06:28:35 PM
It's gotta be almost time for the 2017 release, right?  I really love that beer.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: denny on October 19, 2017, 06:51:07 PM
It's gotta be almost time for the 2017 release, right?  I really love that beer.

Yeah, I'd think so.  This is about the time of year I was there for Beer Camp and they were brewing it then.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: snowtiger87 on November 03, 2017, 04:01:27 AM
Denny, I am going with your (Sierra Nevada's?) recipe. I will be brewing it this weekend.

By the way, we just got in this year's version of Celebration in Colorado. I picked up a sixer and its not red like I thought I remembered - rather orange/amber.  :D
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: jeffy on November 03, 2017, 12:44:36 PM
I've already had two six-packs this season.  It is amber, not red. 
Such a good beer.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: snowtiger87 on November 08, 2017, 10:43:41 PM
I brewed Denny's recipe this past Sunday (was going to brew on Saturday but the hot water heater went out and flooded half the basement in the process  >:(, but not the brewery, it has a floor drain  ;D).

Looks pretty good. Happily bubbling away at 68 degrees in the 14 gallon conical (I brewed 10 gallons). I overshot the OG a bit at 1.068. Rustic orange/amber color.

Hopefully I will be able to dry-hop this weekend and keg it by the next. I will let you know how it turns out.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: DrGMG on November 14, 2017, 01:38:38 AM
I brewed Denny's recipe this past Sunday (was going to brew on Saturday but the hot water heater went out and flooded half the basement in the process  >:(, but not the brewery, it has a floor drain  ;D).

Looks pretty good. Happily bubbling away at 68 degrees in the 14 gallon conical (I brewed 10 gallons). I overshot the OG a bit at 1.068. Rustic orange/amber color.

Hopefully I will be able to dry-hop this weekend and keg it by the next. I will let you know how it turns out.

Yes please.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: tommymorris on November 15, 2017, 01:27:02 AM
Just had one tonight. This is a good vintage.

So, does this qualify as a Red IPA or just plain American IPA according to BJCP?

Good either way. Just something I think about.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: denny on November 15, 2017, 04:20:04 PM
Just had one tonight. This is a good vintage.

So, does this qualify as a Red IPA or just plain American IPA according to BJCP?

Good either way. Just something I think about.

A classic example of American IPA.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: klickitat jim on November 15, 2017, 11:13:04 PM
Just had one tonight. This is a good vintage.

So, does this qualify as a Red IPA or just plain American IPA according to BJCP?

Good either way. Just something I think about.

A classic example of American IPA.
Thanks Denny! Now I can name an IPA that I can enjoy more than one of.

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Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: el_capitan on November 15, 2017, 11:27:11 PM
You guys have just convinced me to go pick some up, and also bust out the homegrowns and brew a batch!  Thanks.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: jeffy on November 16, 2017, 01:04:33 PM
Just had one tonight. This is a good vintage.

So, does this qualify as a Red IPA or just plain American IPA according to BJCP?

Good either way. Just something I think about.

A classic example of American IPA.
I thought about using it as an IPA in a recent bjcp exam I administered, but figured too many people would recognize it.  It is pretty distinctive, I think.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: snowtiger87 on November 16, 2017, 03:25:44 PM
I racked mine into the secondary onto the dry hops last night. Gravity 1.012. It did not taste nearly as hoppy as I expected but hopefully the dry hops will help with that.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: joelv on November 17, 2017, 01:43:45 AM
I just dry hopped my take on this.

I used pale 2 row and 1.5 of Simpsons Medium Crystal.

Color (although still hazy due to young age) seems really close. The English crystal seems less caramel and a bit more biscuity. It reminds me of the SNCA flavor. Hops seem too subdued to me, maybe the dry hop will push this forward, but I might have to add more in the whirlpool on a future version.  So far, pretty happy.


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Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: el_capitan on November 17, 2017, 02:49:52 AM
Last year when I brewed this, we did a triangle test and mine was also lacking in hops sharpness.  I am using homegrown hops throughout though.  Which water profile are you guys using?  I'm considering amping up the sulfate level on this weekend's batch.  I shoot for about half of the Bru'nWater "pale ale" profile. 
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: mabrungard on November 17, 2017, 01:05:43 PM
I shoot for about half of the Bru'nWater "pale ale" profile.

You mean you were using water with less than 150 ppm sulfate to brew an IPA? I'm not surprised the beer was lacking.

I experimented with lower sulfate content in a pale ale a few years ago and used 100 ppm sulfate. The beer was fine, but it lingered too long on the palate and it certainly had muted hop character. From that experience, I can assure anyone that 150 ppm sulfate would be the lowest I'd ever consider in a pale ale or IPA. But for the best flavor and character (to me), I still use the full 300 ppm sulfate as noted in the Pale Ale profile in Bru'n Water.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: snowtiger87 on November 17, 2017, 07:00:26 PM
I think I am at about 150 ppm sulfate. I never considered going all the way up to 300 though  :o
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: el_capitan on November 20, 2017, 12:58:51 AM
I shoot for about half of the Bru'nWater "pale ale" profile.

You mean you were using water with less than 150 ppm sulfate to brew an IPA? I'm not surprised the beer was lacking.

I experimented with lower sulfate content in a pale ale a few years ago and used 100 ppm sulfate. The beer was fine, but it lingered too long on the palate and it certainly had muted hop character. From that experience, I can assure anyone that 150 ppm sulfate would be the lowest I'd ever consider in a pale ale or IPA. But for the best flavor and character (to me), I still use the full 300 ppm sulfate as noted in the Pale Ale profile in Bru'n Water.

On my last three batches of IPA, I've been toggling between going for the full 300 ppm sulfate, and half those targets (about 150 ppm sulfate).  I think I prefer something closer to the full 300 ppm, but the beer starts out very sharp and needs to mellow in the keg just a touch.  The 150 ppm level is more of an approachable IPA for those who aren't mega hop heads or bitterness lovers.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: jverduin on November 22, 2017, 12:10:24 AM
This image is to assist with color questions in the recipe. I used Simpson's Medium Crystal at 1.5 lbs. in a 5 gallon (in the keg) batch along with only pale 2-row (Rahr). Color appears pretty close, but there is some more haze in the homebrew version on the right.

Taste of the malt alone is decently close (in my opinion). The crystal is rated at somewhere above 60 lovibond.

(http://goo.gl/1GCjAu) - I am not convinced I can use an image from Google Drive... so may have to try again.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: el_capitan on November 22, 2017, 12:18:54 AM
This image is to assist with color questions in the recipe. I used Simpson's Medium Crystal at 1.5 lbs. in a 5 gallon (in the keg) batch along with only pale 2-row (Rahr). Color appears pretty close, but there is some more haze in the homebrew version on the right.

Taste of the malt alone is decently close (in my opinion). The crystal is rated at somewhere above 60 lovibond.

(http://goo.gl/1GCjAu) - I am not convinced I can use an image from Google Drive... so may have to try again.

Yep, no image showed up.  Image function is kind of a PITA on this board.  You have to have a third party image-hosting site like photobucket (maybe not the best option these days).  You can direct link to an online image though.  Kind of clunky.  I would share a lot more images if it was easier to do so.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: jverduin on November 22, 2017, 12:57:57 AM
Let's try this again...

(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-SOAKRa2w1hLW_d5vDxgYchhtLdaKpo1PxzxmkmshcdzgA5LHglpkafUhk1hJW4gzMZq855lUA=w271)

Left - SNCA Commercial
Right - Homebrewed Version

1.5 lbs Simpson's Medium Crystal in a 5 gallon batch with only 2-row pale malt (Rahr)
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: curtdogg on November 22, 2017, 01:21:12 AM
SNV Fresh hop 12 pack was awesome. It contained Celebration ale, Fresh hop IPA, Fresh hop DIPA and a Fresh hop session.
Packaged on 10/20.
Sorry no Celebration ale pics.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171122/e428d06f1f5e00fb5b968431248a7e8d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171122/2dedc0da7c543eb147f61bcb9976ab1c.jpg)

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Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: JFMBearcat on November 22, 2017, 06:11:53 PM
Good to hear you found some fresh SN. The only issue I have with them here in Cincinnati is how dated their product is usually on the shelves.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: el_capitan on November 22, 2017, 10:44:35 PM
SNV Fresh hop 12 pack was awesome... It contained Celebration ale, Fresh hop IPA, Fresh hop DIPA and a Fresh hop session.

Whoa - I haven't seen that one yet.  Might have to track some down!  I skipped a different sampler because I didn't want to try their Holiday Spiced ale. 
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: curtdogg on November 22, 2017, 10:46:07 PM
SNV Fresh hop 12 pack was awesome... It contained Celebration ale, Fresh hop IPA, Fresh hop DIPA and a Fresh hop session.

Whoa - I haven't seen that one yet.  Might have to track some down!  I skipped a different sampler because I didn't want to try their Holiday Spiced ale.
They came in two different sampler packs one had the Celebration Ale and the other had a wet hop IPL

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Title: Re: Sierra Nevada Celebration
Post by: snowtiger87 on November 28, 2017, 09:02:38 PM
Mine was kegged and carbonated by Thanksgiving. The color is similar, the taste ended up drier (FG was lower) and perhaps as a result, the bitterness seems a bit sharper than Sierra Nevada's. Still a very good, drinkable IPA.