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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: erikn68 on October 20, 2017, 02:06:20 AM

Title: Darkening Malt
Post by: erikn68 on October 20, 2017, 02:06:20 AM
I am trying to find out what malt others use to darken beer but without any flavor added. I have heard using carafa special II, but I tried in vorlaug but had it grind to a powder and I get the roasty bitter flavor. I want something that has NO roast. Any ideas.

Erik
Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: HoosierBrew on October 20, 2017, 02:16:59 AM
I am trying to find out what malt others use to darken beer but without any flavor added. I have heard using carafa special II, but I tried in vorlaug but had it grind to a powder and I get the roasty bitter flavor. I want something that has NO roast. Any ideas.

Erik


Midnight Wheat, being huskless, has the least roast of any black malt. It's very, very mild. Past that, Sinamar from morebeer or others is used by some breweries to adjust color and is basically flavorless. I've used both with good results.
Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: gman23 on October 20, 2017, 03:41:33 AM
It all depends on how much you use. Carafa iii special is my go to but only for 2-3 oz max if I don't want any flavor.

How much did you use?

Midnight wheat has worked well for me as well but gives an ashy flavor to my beers when they are young.
Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: mabrungard on October 20, 2017, 12:24:41 PM
I've enjoyed the relative tastelessness of a light dosing of Weyermann Chocolate Wheat for color adjustment. I find it works well for Dunkels.
Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: Joe Sr. on October 20, 2017, 03:42:22 PM
Wouldn't sinamar be what you want for darkening with no flavor?

I'm not positive, since I never used it, but I thought it's supposed to be flavor neutral.
Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: denny on October 20, 2017, 04:08:43 PM
Wouldn't sinamar be what you want for darkening with no flavor?

I'm not positive, since I never used it, but I thought it's supposed to be flavor neutral.

Unless you use a huge amount, it is.  It's my go to for darkening.
Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: dannyjed on October 21, 2017, 02:31:57 PM
I used Black Prinz in my last Dunkel and there is no roast flavor. I only used 2-3 oz though for a 5 gallon batch.


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Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: Nathan on October 21, 2017, 07:06:11 PM
I've had good luck doing a cold brew extraction with 4 ounces of Carafa III in a mesh bag in 2litres of water the night before brew day
I strain the liquid and add to the boil with 5 minutes left


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Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: erockrph on October 22, 2017, 06:39:14 PM
I use Brewer's Caramel. It works similar to Sinamar, but with even less flavor impact. I did pay a bit of a premium to have it shipped from the UK, though. I don't think I'd pay that price again when I could just use Midnight Wheat instead.

That roasted bitter flavor from fine-ground, highly roasted malts is often from fine particulates that take a while to fully drop clear. Cold-conditioning usually reduces this over time.
Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: denny on October 22, 2017, 06:40:55 PM
I use Brewer's Caramel. It works similar to Sinamar, but with even less flavor impact. I did pay a bit of a premium to have it shipped from the UK, though. I don't think I'd pay that price again when I could just use Midnight Wheat instead.

That roasted bitter flavor from fine-ground, highly roasted malts is often from fine particulates that take a while to fully drop clear. Cold-conditioning usually reduces this over time.

What's less than none?  ;)
Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: BrewBama on October 22, 2017, 06:58:29 PM
I use Brewer's Caramel. It works similar to Sinamar, but with even less flavor impact. I did pay a bit of a premium to have it shipped from the UK, though. I don't think I'd pay that price again when I could just use Midnight Wheat instead.

That roasted bitter flavor from fine-ground, highly roasted malts is often from fine particulates that take a while to fully drop clear. Cold-conditioning usually reduces this over time.

What's less than none?  ;)

-1 is less than none. :)~ (Sorry, couldn’t help myself)


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Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: Kevin on October 23, 2017, 02:44:20 AM
There is a product available in the UK called brewers caramel. Not to be confused with any type of caramel crystal malt. It is only a coloring agent and was used quite a lot by brewers in England and Scotland to darken their end product. https://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/brupaks-brewers-caramel.html

Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: erockrph on October 23, 2017, 01:18:09 PM
I use Brewer's Caramel. It works similar to Sinamar, but with even less flavor impact. I did pay a bit of a premium to have it shipped from the UK, though. I don't think I'd pay that price again when I could just use Midnight Wheat instead.

That roasted bitter flavor from fine-ground, highly roasted malts is often from fine particulates that take a while to fully drop clear. Cold-conditioning usually reduces this over time.

What's less than none?  ;)

And at typical usage rates I can't disagree with that.

I was able to take a pale Pils up to dark Schwarzbier in color and couldn't detect any change in flavor with caramel. For that big of a color swing, I can pick up a hint of roast from Sinamar.
Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: narcout on October 23, 2017, 04:45:15 PM
I have heard using carafa special II, but I tried in vorlaug but had it grind to a powder and I get the roasty bitter flavor.

Carafa Special is made from dehusked barley, but the dehusking procedure does not remove all of the husks, so you can still get a bit of roast character out of it.  According to the talk given by a representative of Briess Malting at NHC, there's something like 40% of the husk remaining.

Blackprinz is made from "hull-less" barley.  My understanding of "hull-less" barely is that the husk is looser than usual and is more easily removed.  I'm not sure whether the final product is 100% free of husks or not.

Midnight Wheat is supposedly totally free of husks.
Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: HoosierBrew on October 23, 2017, 05:04:26 PM
Midnight Wheat is supposedly totally free of husks.



That's my understanding too. Which explains it being by far the mildest black malt IMO.
Title: Re: Darkening Malt
Post by: el_capitan on October 30, 2017, 11:22:47 PM
I am trying to find out what malt others use to darken beer but without any flavor added. I have heard using carafa special II, but I tried in vorlaug but had it grind to a powder and I get the roasty bitter flavor. I want something that has NO roast. Any ideas.

Erik


Midnight Wheat, being huskless, has the least roast of any black malt. It's very, very mild. Past that, Sinamar from morebeer or others is used by some breweries to adjust color and is basically flavorless. I've used both with good results.

That's what I was going to recommend too.  I use Carafa II in my Munich Dunkel and I really don't feel it contributes any roastiness to speak of.  I add it to my main mash, not just capping the mash at Vorlauf.