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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: Javaslinger on November 24, 2017, 02:24:12 AM

Title: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: Javaslinger on November 24, 2017, 02:24:12 AM
Couple questions...  I've heard that as an alternative to shaking or other manual methods, you can use a wine whip to oxgenate wort.

First, what's the best procedure for doing this?  How long?

Second, if a wine whip removes dissolved CO2 from wine, how does it aerate wort and dissolve O2?
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: klickitat jim on November 24, 2017, 03:16:37 AM
I have tried just about every method and finally settled on pure O2 with a stainless wand and .5 micron tip. Everyone has their opinion, and there's more than one way to skin kittens, but in my opinion and experience, pure O2 is by far best and most dependable

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Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: dzlater on November 24, 2017, 12:46:59 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
Second, if a wine whip removes dissolved CO2 from wine, how does it aerate wort and dissolve O2?

 I have been wondering about this myself?
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: pete b on November 24, 2017, 02:03:59 PM
I use a mix stir, which is similar to a wine whip to aerate wort and "degas" mead. By "removing co2" all that is meant is that by moving the fermenting wine or mead around rapidly more co2 gets released because it is not trapped in the liquid. When degassing mead and wine it foams up dramatically.
I think it does a great job aerating wort.
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: denny on November 24, 2017, 03:33:58 PM
I use a mix stir, which is similar to a wine whip to aerate wort and "degas" mead. By "removing co2" all that is meant is that by moving the fermenting wine or mead around rapidly more co2 gets released because it is not trapped in the liquid. When degassing mead and wine it foams up dramatically.
I think it does a great job aerating wort.

Same here.  I run it until my fermenter is filled with foam.
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: brewsumore on November 25, 2017, 12:03:01 AM
I have tried just about every method and finally settled on pure O2 with a stainless wand and .5 micron tip. Everyone has their opinion, and there's more than one way to skin kittens, but in my opinion and experience, pure O2 is by far best and most dependable

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+1
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: ynotbrusum on November 25, 2017, 01:11:46 PM
Be sure to boil the stone/wand between brews - it can trap wort easily and become a breeding ground for microbes.

I have one and use it only on the occasional big beer.  The wine whip in a drill set on high oxygenates my lighter beers very effectively, though I wonder if it is even necessary....
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: brewsumore on November 25, 2017, 01:28:52 PM
Be sure to boil the stone/wand between brews - it can trap wort easily and become a breeding ground for microbes.

I have one and use it only on the occasional big beer.  The wine whip in a drill set on high oxygenates my lighter beers very effectively, though I wonder if it is even necessary....

I honestly feel that "it depends".  I almost never boil my wand/stone.  What I do:

1) dunk it in bucket of star san I have on hand during brew day / when about to aerate and pitch, while turned on low thru flow meter.

2) aerate wort

3) immediately carry over to sink and run hot water over stone with it turned on low.

4) go back and dip in star san bucket again while turned on

5) set aside to dry until next use.

From start to finish including aerating time takes maybe 5 minutes.

Also, just for kicks I decided on my last batch, a 1.050 ESB to skip aerating since I repitched with plenty of yeast and had added Wyeast nutrient to the boil.  I noticed it took a full 24 hrs to form <1" of krauesen - slower than if I had aerated.  In terms of growth phase and overall yeast health Idecided to go back to my BMP of aerating every batch.  It still made great beer - but it's just so easy to aerate.  And I use a swappable 10-lb tank of 02 so I'm not worried about using a little extra.  It was a pain when I bought the little expensive disposable red tanks at Home Depot!  YMMV.
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: Lazy Ant Brewing on November 27, 2017, 10:34:48 AM
I do BIAB.  To aerate, I simply open the valve and drain it into a two-quart sanitized pitcher and then pour that into a sanitized fermenter.  Shake dry yeast into that, cover the fermenter, put into the fridge with temp controller, and let the yeast do the heavy lifting.

Never had a bad fermentation yet.  However, about 1.060 OG is about the highest I aim for.  I know liquid yeast with higher OGs require more care, but I like the results I'm getting.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: Ellismr on November 29, 2017, 11:31:35 AM
Be sure to boil the stone/wand between brews - it can trap wort easily and become a breeding ground for microbes.

I have one and use it only on the occasional big beer.  The wine whip in a drill set on high oxygenates my lighter beers very effectively, though I wonder if it is even necessary....

I put my wand in starsan before I aerate then immediately go to the starsan bucket and turn on the gas to blow out wort trapped in the stone for 4-5 seconds. 




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Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: klickitat jim on November 29, 2017, 12:33:37 PM
Playing devils advocate here,

How are people sanitizing their drills?

So the spinning whip, mixstir, paint stirrer, what have you..  is spinning the wort. The swirling vortex then pulls air into the vessel from outside. And what is directly outside? The whirling ventilated fan/motor of a drill. Hurling God knows what into the air directly above the opening of the vessel.

And we pick at people who only soak their O2 wand in sanitizer...

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Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: pete b on November 29, 2017, 12:48:52 PM
Playing devils advocate here,

How are people sanitizing their drills?

So the spinning whip, mixstir, paint stirrer, what have you..  is spinning the wort. The swirling vortex then pulls air into the vessel from outside. And what is directly outside? The whirling ventilated fan/motor of a drill. Hurling God knows what into the air directly above the opening of the vessel.

And we pick at people who only soak their O2 wand in sanitizer...

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And then immediately pitching a big starter of healthy yeast which will outcompete everything.
If one were concerned, and I have done this too many times with no infections to be concerned, one could easily rig up a system with a whole in a bucket lid or through a bung in a carboy so air couldn't get in.
If anyone uses a mix stir with a carboy the bung is a good idea anyway so that the metal rod doesn't wack the glass.
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: klickitat jim on November 29, 2017, 01:04:50 PM
Playing devils advocate here,

How are people sanitizing their drills?

So the spinning whip, mixstir, paint stirrer, what have you..  is spinning the wort. The swirling vortex then pulls air into the vessel from outside. And what is directly outside? The whirling ventilated fan/motor of a drill. Hurling God knows what into the air directly above the opening of the vessel.

And we pick at people who only soak their O2 wand in sanitizer...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
And then immediately pitching a big starter of healthy yeast which will outcompete everything.
If one were concerned, and I have done this too many times with no infections to be concerned, one could easily rig up a system with a whole in a bucket lid or through a bung in a carboy so air couldn't get in.
If anyone uses a mix stir with a carboy the bung is a good idea anyway so that the metal rod doesn't wack the glass.
Then you would agree, no need to go crazy sterilizing an O2 wand.

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Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: klickitat jim on November 29, 2017, 01:15:07 PM
Like anything in brewing, everything depends on everything else. So long as you pitch plenty of healthy active yeast to we'll oxygenated wort that is properly mashed, and then drink it cold and quick... nothing else matters.

Remember that outnumbering bacteria with yeast doesn't kill the bacteria. And the bacteria can eat things the yeast leave behind. But it may take some time to develop so, just drink fast and it's fine

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Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on November 29, 2017, 05:09:39 PM
Playing devils advocate here,

How are people sanitizing their drills?

So the spinning whip, mixstir, paint stirrer, what have you..  is spinning the wort. The swirling vortex then pulls air into the vessel from outside. And what is directly outside? The whirling ventilated fan/motor of a drill. Hurling God knows what into the air directly above the opening of the vessel.

And we pick at people who only soak their O2 wand in sanitizer...

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Who sanitizes the room air?
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: pete b on November 29, 2017, 06:35:39 PM
Playing devils advocate here,

How are people sanitizing their drills?

So the spinning whip, mixstir, paint stirrer, what have you..  is spinning the wort. The swirling vortex then pulls air into the vessel from outside. And what is directly outside? The whirling ventilated fan/motor of a drill. Hurling God knows what into the air directly above the opening of the vessel.

And we pick at people who only soak their O2 wand in sanitizer...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
And then immediately pitching a big starter of healthy yeast which will outcompete everything.
If one were concerned, and I have done this too many times with no infections to be concerned, one could easily rig up a system with a whole in a bucket lid or through a bung in a carboy so air couldn't get in.
If anyone uses a mix stir with a carboy the bung is a good idea anyway so that the metal rod doesn't wack the glass.
Then you would agree, no need to go crazy sterilizing an O2 wand.

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Yes, I agree, no need to go crazy sterilizing your O2 wand. Clean it and sanitize it sanely, but don't go crazy sterilizing it.
The same air with the same microbes that contacts my drill contacts my wort every time the lid is open. I worry more about things coming in contact with my wort and beer that have been soiled with organic material that is conducive to microbe growth.
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: Joe Sr. on November 29, 2017, 08:56:45 PM
Playing devils advocate here,

How are people sanitizing their drills?

So the spinning whip, mixstir, paint stirrer, what have you..  is spinning the wort. The swirling vortex then pulls air into the vessel from outside. And what is directly outside? The whirling ventilated fan/motor of a drill. Hurling God knows what into the air directly above the opening of the vessel.

And we pick at people who only soak their O2 wand in sanitizer...

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Who sanitizes the room air?

People with clean rooms?
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on November 29, 2017, 09:00:44 PM
Playing devils advocate here,

How are people sanitizing their drills?

So the spinning whip, mixstir, paint stirrer, what have you..  is spinning the wort. The swirling vortex then pulls air into the vessel from outside. And what is directly outside? The whirling ventilated fan/motor of a drill. Hurling God knows what into the air directly above the opening of the vessel.

And we pick at people who only soak their O2 wand in sanitizer...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Who sanitizes the room air?

People with clean rooms?
Yep, rooms with positive pressure through a HEPA filter.
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: Joe Sr. on November 29, 2017, 09:17:29 PM
Who sanitizes the room air?

People with clean rooms?
[/quote]
Yep, rooms with positive pressure through a HEPA filter.
[/quote]

I aerate in my basement.  The air is not sanitized.  But my aeration stone is. 

I've had very few infections in 20+ years of brewing.
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: brewsumore on November 29, 2017, 10:12:38 PM
Playing devils advocate here,

How are people sanitizing their drills?

So the spinning whip, mixstir, paint stirrer, what have you..  is spinning the wort. The swirling vortex then pulls air into the vessel from outside. And what is directly outside? The whirling ventilated fan/motor of a drill. Hurling God knows what into the air directly above the opening of the vessel.

And we pick at people who only soak their O2 wand in sanitizer...

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Who sanitizes the room air?

People with clean rooms?
Yep, rooms with positive pressure through a HEPA filter.

That would work!  I pity the person whom used sandalwood hibiscus bathroom spray with an open fermenter nearby!   ;D
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on November 30, 2017, 12:34:16 AM
Who sanitizes the room air?

People with clean rooms?
Yep, rooms with positive pressure through a HEPA filter.
[/quote]

I aerate in my basement.  The air is not sanitized.  But my aeration stone is. 

I've had very few infections in 20+ years of brewing.
[/quote]
Well I have had good luck too, and have  done some “open” fermentations.

Some breweries do open fermentation in a room supplied with sanitary air. Sierra Nevada uses sterile filtered air to oxigenate their wort.

If I use an aquarium pump to aerate, it has a sterile filter in line, just because. Haven’t done that in a while.
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: Joe Sr. on November 30, 2017, 02:38:52 AM
Right. I've got an aquarium pump also and I would nit use it without the filter. There's loads of difference between unfiltered ambient air and pumping it directly into your wort.

I've never done a full open ferment but I've started using a loose piece of foil rather than an airlock for the first couple days. More to not have the back pressure (3724) than anything else.
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on November 30, 2017, 03:06:14 AM
Right. I've got an aquarium pump also and I would nit use it without the filter. There's loads of difference between unfiltered ambient air and pumping it directly into your wort.

I've never done a full open ferment but I've started using a loose piece of foil rather than an airlock for the first couple days. More to not have the back pressure (3724) than anything else.
Open ferments are fine, if you keep things clean.

I have seen many open fermentation’s in German lager breweries.
Title: Re: Oxygenating wort with a wine whip?
Post by: erockrph on November 30, 2017, 05:30:38 AM
Right. I've got an aquarium pump also and I would nit use it without the filter. There's loads of difference between unfiltered ambient air and pumping it directly into your wort.

I've never done a full open ferment but I've started using a loose piece of foil rather than an airlock for the first couple days. More to not have the back pressure (3724) than anything else.
Open ferments are fine, if you keep things clean.

I have seen many open fermentation’s in German lager breweries.
I've done open ferments and just covered my bucket with a paint strainer bag dipped in Star San. I felt like it helped boost the esters using Yorkshire Square yeast. I haven't tried it for a hefe yet, but it's on my list.

For most beers I ferment 3 gallons in 5 gallon kegs. For moderate gravity beers, I think there's plenty of oxygen in the headspace for me. For higher gravity beers, I set my prv to 2 psi and hit it with oxygen through the liquid post until I hear it start to bleed off.

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