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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: jc24 on January 01, 2018, 12:49:59 AM

Title: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: jc24 on January 01, 2018, 12:49:59 AM
I recently brewed a 6.6G batch of Marmalade IPA. Grist was 82.5% MO, 10.5% Munich, 7% Caramunich. Hops were Pacifica and Mandarina Bavaria. I used a mixture of zested Seville oranges and a jar of marmalade post fermentation.

All was going well prior to kegging - tasted great, but I wasn't happy with the aroma. No problem, I thought, I'll just dry hop it some more in the keg (Already dry hopped with 1.7oz Pacifica and 1.7oz Mandarina Bavaria in the fermenter). I thought I'd bang it with a large charge as I was only going to dry hop for 2 days cold, then remove the hop sock once the beer was carbonated. So I added 3.5oz Mandarina Bavaria to the keg via a hop sock, cranked up the pressure to 35PSI at 35°F and left it for 35hrs. When I tasted it after that time it was absolutely undrinkable - seriously disgusting. I realise that 3.5oz of dry hopping was a large charge, especially after already being dry hopped with 3.5oz, but I'm quite amazed at how this beer has turned from something quite delicious to something so bad in 35hrs.

Is Mandarina Bavaria just a bad hop variety? Even now the aroma is still not strong - I'm thinking I'll never use MB again! Anyone else had this? Also, I'm guessing the foul flavour is coming from suspended hops - will that drop out in a few days and leave me with a drinkable beer?

Hop schedule was as follows:
1oz Magnum @ 60mins
1.7oz Pacifica @ 0mins (5mins whirlpool, another 10min steep)
1.7oz Mandarina Bavaria @ 0mins (5mins whirlpool, another 10min steep)
1.7oz Pacifica dry in fermenter for 5 days
1.7oz Mandarina Bavaria dry in fermenter for 5 days
3.5oz Mandarina Bavaria dry in keg for 2 days @ 35°F
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: klickitat jim on January 01, 2018, 01:02:54 AM
With all the extra stuff you added, I wouldn't rush to blame hops. I've brewed my way through a pound of Mandarina and found it to be marvelous.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: jc24 on January 01, 2018, 01:37:26 AM
Except it was tasting great prior to dry hopping for the second time...
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: klickitat jim on January 01, 2018, 01:47:56 AM
Can you describe "foul" a little better. Some folks get a nasty vomit like thing when fermenting orange products.

Without tasting it it's hard to say. But hops would be my very last guess, and I'd have huge doubt then.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 01, 2018, 04:04:49 AM
I have brewed a Mandarina APA that used a little dry hops, it was wonderful.

The taste I had of a Mandarina Pils in Germany was outstanding. That was all my wife would allow me to taste.

I think it is a great hop, and have enough for a Pilsner.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: jc24 on January 01, 2018, 04:08:16 AM
Thanks for the responses - I'll have another sample when I get home and try and describe the taste in more detail!
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: jc24 on January 01, 2018, 11:27:41 AM
The unpleasant taste has softened a lot today. I would describe it as a strong dirt/vegetal taste. Seems to me like I was pretty much drinking hops before and it will continue to soften as they drop out


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Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: oginme on January 01, 2018, 01:34:15 PM
I played around a lot with Mandarina Bavaria when it first became available a few years ago.  It is a superb hop for tangerine flavor but when overdone can lead to a earthy, pith flavor.  To get the same flavors, but mellow it out a bit, I've had success combining it with Huell Melon with the amounts slightly flavoring the Mandarina Bavaria.  This gave me softer tangerine flavors but distinctly tangerine aromas. 

I'm anxious to try Mandarina in a pilsner.  It works fine for APAs, but I don't think I would count on it to be the main flavor/aroma hop in an IPA again.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: a10t2 on January 01, 2018, 02:28:03 PM
It's definitely not out of the question that you got some improperly packaged hops, especially if your supplier repackages them.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 01, 2018, 03:39:45 PM
It's definitely not out of the question that you got some improperly packaged hops, especially if your supplier repackages them.

Yeah, that's what I'd guess.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: ethinson on January 01, 2018, 04:55:00 PM
The unpleasant taste has softened a lot today. I would describe it as a strong dirt/vegetal taste. Seems to me like I was pretty much drinking hops before and it will continue to soften as they drop out


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Not sure about the dirt, but vegetal/grassy can come from very heavy dryhop amounts.  As you mentioned it was a heavy charge, and if it hasn't had time to equal itself out that could be it.  Hopefully it continues to improve.

We use Mandarina Bavaria in my wife's chocolate orange stout and we love it, but it's a very small amount (1 oz in 3 gallons, no dry hop).
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: jc24 on January 02, 2018, 01:37:56 PM
For anyone who was interested to see how this turned out, the beer has mellowed out HEAPS now (4 days after kegging/dry hopping for the 2nd time). It is becoming quite a nice drop. I think we can almost certainly say that it was as I first suspected, that I was pretty much just drinking a mouthful of raw hops initially :-) Everything is much more pleasant now - nice orange aroma and taste with none of the dirt I was tasting before. I don't think MB is capable of delivering the massive hop aroma that I was wanting, though. I'll try it in a lighter beer next time, but probably not in an IPA again.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 02, 2018, 01:43:05 PM
It doesn’t have the oil content of hops like Citra, but I have enjoyed the aroma of beers that I have made with it.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: jc24 on January 02, 2018, 01:45:37 PM
Yeah it is a beautiful hop - I guess I was just expecting the wrong thing from it. As you say, doesn't have the oil content of other hops typically used in IPA's.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 02, 2018, 03:18:54 PM
It doesn’t have the oil content of hops like Citra, but I have enjoyed the aroma of beers that I have made with it.


Same here. Definitely not as in your face (not surprising being a Hallertau offshoot), but it's a nice hop.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: a10t2 on January 02, 2018, 03:22:46 PM
I'm still not convinced you didn't get some bum hops.

If you're in Ska's distribution footprint, try their Modus Mandarina. That's a 100% MB dry hop, and only about half as much as you're using.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 02, 2018, 03:47:15 PM
It doesn’t have the oil content of hops like Citra, but I have enjoyed the aroma of beers that I have made with it.


Same here. Definitely not as in your face (not surprising being a Hallertau offshoot), but it's a nice hop.

Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 02, 2018, 03:57:11 PM
Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv


I'd seen that. I wonder how Citra ended up so intense and oily with parentage of mostly less intense hops?
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Robert on January 02, 2018, 04:05:29 PM
Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv


I'd seen that. I wonder how Citra ended up so intense and oily with parentage of mostly less intense hops?
Same way Lemondrop is so much less intense than its mother Cascade?  Or that Cascade itself has changed so much?  Every hop is its own thing, it seems.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 02, 2018, 04:13:09 PM
Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv


I'd seen that. I wonder how Citra ended up so intense and oily with parentage of mostly less intense hops?
Same way Lemondrop is so much less intense than its mother Cascade?  Or that Cascade itself has changed so much?  Every hop is its own thing, it seems.


I get that. Just seems the jump in intensity from Citra's parentage to Citra is a lot bigger than the drop off from Cascade to Lemondrop. I'm sure the answer lies in our ability nowadays to manipulate genetic factors in forming new hybrids. Pretty interesting regardless.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Robert on January 02, 2018, 04:18:32 PM
Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv


I'd seen that. I wonder how Citra ended up so intense and oily with parentage of mostly less intense hops?
Same way Lemondrop is so much less intense than its mother Cascade?  Or that Cascade itself has changed so much?  Every hop is its own thing, it seems.


I get that. Just seems the jump in intensity from Citra's parentage to Citra is a lot bigger than the drop off from Cascade to Lemondrop. I'm sure the answer lies in our ability nowadays to manipulate genetic factors in forming new hybrids. Pretty interesting regardless.
It might also show just how much we don't know about genetics, or to what degree genes and/or other factors are really determining characteristics.  The fact that cloned varieties change so much with time and place suggests genetics aren't the be all and end all.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 02, 2018, 04:45:38 PM
Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv


I'd seen that. I wonder how Citra ended up so intense and oily with parentage of mostly less intense hops?
Same way Lemondrop is so much less intense than its mother Cascade?  Or that Cascade itself has changed so much?  Every hop is its own thing, it seems.

Cascade has changed?  In what way?
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: klickitat jim on January 02, 2018, 05:28:29 PM
Are hops GMO?
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 02, 2018, 05:41:48 PM
Are hops GMO?
Absolutely not.

Hop breeding will select hops with flavors and aromas that were culled from the breeding program in past years. They may start off with 40-50k plants from the crosses, then selectively elimate ones that don’t meetagranomics first, then for the brewing qualities.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: a10t2 on January 02, 2018, 05:45:26 PM
Are hops GMO?

Only in the sense that cats and dogs are GMO. ;D
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: klickitat jim on January 02, 2018, 05:46:47 PM
Then it's probably not that, huh?
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Robert on January 02, 2018, 05:57:44 PM
Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv


I'd seen that. I wonder how Citra ended up so intense and oily with parentage of mostly less intense hops?
Same way Lemondrop is so much less intense than its mother Cascade?  Or that Cascade itself has changed so much?  Every hop is its own thing, it seems.

Cascade has changed?  In what way?
When I first tasted Liberty Ale and Sierra Nevada, I recall a distinct lemony character.  Subjective, and memory dependent,  but I've heard others say that too.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 02, 2018, 06:10:41 PM
When I first tasted Liberty Ale and Sierra Nevada, I recall a distinct lemony character.  Subjective, and memory dependent,  but I've heard others say that too.

You need to account for year to year crop variations and terroir.  A lot of Cascade from one farm will not be exactly like one from another farm.  Even on the same farm there can be lot to lot variations.  That's why brewers go to Yakima to sample from different lots and select exactly the lot they want.  Steve Dresler, from Sierra Nevada, is there every year...or was til he retired last year.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 02, 2018, 06:14:58 PM
Are hops GMO?

Only in the sense that cats and dogs are GMO. ;D
Or humans!

What I understand is that brewers don’t want GMO hops or barley, so no market for those.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Robert on January 02, 2018, 06:25:13 PM
When I first tasted Liberty Ale and Sierra Nevada, I recall a distinct lemony character.  Subjective, and memory dependent,  but I've heard others say that too.

You need to account for year to year crop variations and terroir.  A lot of Cascade from one farm will not be exactly like one from another farm.  Even on the same farm there can be lot to lot variations.  That's why brewers go to Yakima to sample from different lots and select exactly the lot they want.  Steve Dresler, from Sierra Nevada, is there every year...or was til he retired last year.
Kinda my point.  So many things affect character, there's probably genetic drift, and genes probably that affect response to climate and terroire,  so it shouldn't be surprising that a hop doesn't taste like a 50/50 blend of some example of two parents.  Seems hop breeding is kind of a "black box" situation.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 02, 2018, 06:43:31 PM
Kinda my point.  So many things affect character, there's probably genetic drift, and genes probably that affect response to climate and terroire,  so it shouldn't be surprising that a hop doesn't taste like a 50/50 blend of some example of two parents.  Seems hop breeding is kind of a "black box" situation.

I'm not sure about your "genetic drift" point.  It's not something I've ever heard discussed.  Lemme look into it with YCH and see if I can come up with any info.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Robert on January 02, 2018, 06:47:06 PM
Kinda my point.  So many things affect character, there's probably genetic drift, and genes probably that affect response to climate and terroire,  so it shouldn't be surprising that a hop doesn't taste like a 50/50 blend of some example of two parents.  Seems hop breeding is kind of a "black box" situation.

I'm not sure about your "genetic drift" point.  It's not something I've ever heard discussed.  Lemme look into it with YCH and see if I can come up with any info.
Cool. Experts are good! Stuff I've just wondered about.  But the question being why Citra  is what it is, that's the black box part in breeding anything I think.  They make so many crosses, not knowing what they'll get.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 02, 2018, 07:05:28 PM
Cool. Experts are good! Stuff I've just wondered about.  But the question being why Citra  is what it is, that's the black box part in breeding anything I think.  They make so many crosses, not knowing what they'll get.

You're exactly right about not knowing what they'll get.  And I don't think intentional breeding is quite as common as you think.  Sure, they do it, but many new varieties are discovered rather than bred.  And keep in mind that hop growers look as much, if not more, for form factor and hardiness.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 02, 2018, 08:13:39 PM
And for the record, I wasn't suggesting that Brewers Gold + Mittelfruh directly = Citra based on the attributes of both only.  :) 

I do get that there's a fair amount of blind luck and tons of experimentation done to get the new hops we buy. But just as there is breeding to find out what produces disease resistant tomatoes or potatoes, or what promotes a crisper, juicier apple with great sweet/acid balance, I strongly doubt that successful companies like HBC rely on ONLY blind luck to develop Citra, Ekuanot, etc. If I'm wrong I'll gladly stand corrected.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: hopfenundmalz on January 02, 2018, 08:59:43 PM
At Hop School they said Agronomics comes first. Disease resistance, yield per acre, ease of processing, time of maturity, and so on. One plant was pointed out that had a huge crown at the top, Jason Perrault said that was a failure as it would jam their machinery. When they get to a certain point in development, they brew beer with them on a homebrew set up. It looked like many use a 20 gallon More Beer system.

There seems to be some luck, but the pros like Jason Perrault have a good feel for what increases their chances.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 02, 2018, 09:02:44 PM
And for the record, I wasn't suggesting that Brewers Gold + Mittelfruh directly = Citra based on the attributes of both only.  :) 

I do get that there's a fair amount of blind luck and tons of experimentation done to get the new hops we buy. But just as there is breeding to find out what produces disease resistant tomatoes or potatoes, or what promotes a crisper, juicier apple with great sweet/acid balance, I strongly doubt that successful companies like HBC rely on ONLY blind luck to develop Citra, Ekuanot, etc. If I'm wrong I'll gladly stand corrected.

You are correct, it's not ONLY luck.  But a very large part of it is.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 02, 2018, 09:18:50 PM
Good info from all. Pretty interesting topic. I found it interesting that the hop we know as Citra would come from milder, lower oil 'parents'. Crossbred combos make for interesting possible outcomes. The world of mix breed dogs comes to mind.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 02, 2018, 09:27:30 PM
Good info from all. Pretty interesting topic. I found it interesting that the hop we know as Citra would come from milder, lower oil 'parents'. Crossbred combos make for interesting possible outcomes. The world of mix breed dogs comes to mind.

Lemme tell ya, Hop and Brew School IS a real education.  Hope you can make it someday.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 02, 2018, 09:29:08 PM
Good info from all. Pretty interesting topic. I found it interesting that the hop we know as Citra would come from milder, lower oil 'parents'. Crossbred combos make for interesting possible outcomes. The world of mix breed dogs comes to mind.

Lemme tell ya, Hop and Brew School IS a real education.  Hope you can make it someday.


I'd love to, Denny. It's a bucket list thing. Someday!
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 08, 2018, 05:07:58 PM
When I first tasted Liberty Ale and Sierra Nevada, I recall a distinct lemony character.  Subjective, and memory dependent,  but I've heard others say that too.

You need to account for year to year crop variations and terroir.  A lot of Cascade from one farm will not be exactly like one from another farm.  Even on the same farm there can be lot to lot variations.  That's why brewers go to Yakima to sample from different lots and select exactly the lot they want.  Steve Dresler, from Sierra Nevada, is there every year...or was til he retired last year.

I recently got some cascade hops from Ted. Holy cow. Another level of delicious.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 08, 2018, 05:41:51 PM
When I first tasted Liberty Ale and Sierra Nevada, I recall a distinct lemony character.  Subjective, and memory dependent,  but I've heard others say that too.

You need to account for year to year crop variations and terroir.  A lot of Cascade from one farm will not be exactly like one from another farm.  Even on the same farm there can be lot to lot variations.  That's why brewers go to Yakima to sample from different lots and select exactly the lot they want.  Steve Dresler, from Sierra Nevada, is there every year...or was til he retired last year.

I recently got some cascade hops from Ted. Holy cow. Another level of delicious.

I have some bale core samples of Cascade from YCH that I'm dying to try.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 08, 2018, 06:34:59 PM
When I first tasted Liberty Ale and Sierra Nevada, I recall a distinct lemony character.  Subjective, and memory dependent,  but I've heard others say that too.

You need to account for year to year crop variations and terroir.  A lot of Cascade from one farm will not be exactly like one from another farm.  Even on the same farm there can be lot to lot variations.  That's why brewers go to Yakima to sample from different lots and select exactly the lot they want.  Steve Dresler, from Sierra Nevada, is there every year...or was til he retired last year.

I recently got some cascade hops from Ted. Holy cow. Another level of delicious.


I used some of his Cascade in my current APA, too. Holy crap. Best Cascade I've used in years.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 08, 2018, 06:58:24 PM
When I first tasted Liberty Ale and Sierra Nevada, I recall a distinct lemony character.  Subjective, and memory dependent,  but I've heard others say that too.

You need to account for year to year crop variations and terroir.  A lot of Cascade from one farm will not be exactly like one from another farm.  Even on the same farm there can be lot to lot variations.  That's why brewers go to Yakima to sample from different lots and select exactly the lot they want.  Steve Dresler, from Sierra Nevada, is there every year...or was til he retired last year.

I recently got some cascade hops from Ted. Holy cow. Another level of delicious.


I used some of his Cascade in my current APA, too. Holy crap. Best Cascade I've used in years.

I need to know how his hops are on another level compared to most others. Does he just get them before everyone else and pack them sooner or something? Literally every hop variety I've gotten from him has just been a super flavored version of what I'm used to.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 08, 2018, 07:36:37 PM
I need to know how his hops are on another level compared to most others. Does he just get them before everyone else and pack them sooner or something? Literally every hop variety I've gotten from him has just been a super flavored version of what I'm used to.

He goes to Yakima and personally selects them.  But that's not unusual.  At harvest time at YCH, brewers and buyers from all over the country show up to select their hops.  He does nothing special in terms of packaging.  He just drives the bales back to his biz in Baker City and has his employees there package them.  (His wife used to do all the packaging!) I think at this point he's hired a couple people to work in the hop biz.  He's also building a warehouse/storage facility.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 08, 2018, 07:56:44 PM
His 2017 Simcoe were the best I've ever used also FWIW. Still have some and they're stellar.


Edit for dumbassery - I  meant the 2016 Simcoe crop.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 08, 2018, 10:19:09 PM
I need to know how his hops are on another level compared to most others. Does he just get them before everyone else and pack them sooner or something? Literally every hop variety I've gotten from him has just been a super flavored version of what I'm used to.

He goes to Yakima and personally selects them.  But that's not unusual.  At harvest time at YCH, brewers and buyers from all over the country show up to select their hops.  He does nothing special in terms of packaging.  He just drives the bales back to his biz in Baker City and has his employees there package them.  (His wife used to do all the packaging!) I think at this point he's hired a couple people to work in the hop biz.  He's also building a warehouse/storage facility.

Does he have a extra special talent for selection then? You are the one that recommended him to me, and holy smokes has his stuff exceeded all expectations.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 08, 2018, 10:43:38 PM
Does he have a extra special talent for selection then? You are the one that recommended him to me, and holy smokes has his stuff exceeded all expectations.


I think his nose/senses (or whatever) have to be ahead of the curve. Superb hops.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 08, 2018, 10:48:53 PM
Does he have a extra special talent for selection then? You are the one that recommended him to me, and holy smokes has his stuff exceeded all expectations.


I think his nose/senses (or whatever) have to be ahead of the curve. Superb hops.

have you tried his lager hop blend? He calls it edelweiss. I absolutely love it. the perfect amount of herbal, earth and spice
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 08, 2018, 11:15:03 PM
Does he have a extra special talent for selection then? You are the one that recommended him to me, and holy smokes has his stuff exceeded all expectations.


I think his nose/senses (or whatever) have to be ahead of the curve. Superb hops.

have you tried his lager hop blend? He calls it edelweiss. I absolutely love it. the perfect amount of herbal, earth and spice


No I haven't but want to. I've tried his :  Azacca, Centennial, Cascade, Hallertau, Mt Hood, Citra, Simcoe, and maybe Crystal? All were absolutely stellar. I still love YVH for their broad selection and new/experimental stuff, but I keep buying more and more from him.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 09, 2018, 12:07:18 AM
Does he have a extra special talent for selection then? You are the one that recommended him to me, and holy smokes has his stuff exceeded all expectations.


I think his nose/senses (or whatever) have to be ahead of the curve. Superb hops.

have you tried his lager hop blend? He calls it edelweiss. I absolutely love it. the perfect amount of herbal, earth and spice


No I haven't but want to. I've tried his :  Azacca, Centennial, Cascade, Hallertau, Mt Hood, Citra, Simcoe, and maybe Crystal? All were absolutely stellar. I still love YVH for their broad selection and new/experimental stuff, but I keep buying more and more from him.

the edelweiss has darn near replaced noble type hops for me.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 09, 2018, 03:44:00 PM
Does he have a extra special talent for selection then? You are the one that recommended him to me, and holy smokes has his stuff exceeded all expectations.


I think his nose/senses (or whatever) have to be ahead of the curve. Superb hops.

Well, he's a Grand Master +++ judge, so his senses are well trained.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 09, 2018, 03:58:42 PM
Does he have a extra special talent for selection then? You are the one that recommended him to me, and holy smokes has his stuff exceeded all expectations.


I think his nose/senses (or whatever) have to be ahead of the curve. Superb hops.

Well, he's a Grand Master +++ judge, so his senses are well trained.

Makes sense!
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Robert on January 09, 2018, 06:25:38 PM
Who is "he?" Now I want "his" hops!
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 09, 2018, 06:28:07 PM
Who is "he?" Now I want "his" hops!


His name is Ted Hausotter. He sells his hops on eBay. Be sure to verify him as the seller. Even his year old hops are very good. Ships quickly, too. Can't recommend enough.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Robert on January 09, 2018, 06:37:00 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 09, 2018, 09:04:09 PM
Who is "he?" Now I want "his" hops!

Company is called Hop Heaven.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Robert on January 10, 2018, 02:23:27 AM
Who is "he?" Now I want "his" hops!


His name is Ted Hausotter. He sells his hops on eBay. Be sure to verify him as the seller. Even his year old hops are very good. Ships quickly, too. Can't recommend enough.
I see he sells whole and pellet. Are both of equally exceptional quality? Does he choose lots before pelletizing?
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: klickitat jim on January 10, 2018, 02:31:19 AM
I know Ted and if he sold anything less than exceptional, I'd be shocked.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: klickitat jim on January 10, 2018, 02:40:10 AM
He also makes cool ways for millennials to move around the office(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180110/5a6e3a4f9805cfeae1ccf66fc419b6ad.jpg)
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Robert on January 10, 2018, 02:51:23 AM
I know Ted and if he sold anything less than exceptional, I'd be shocked.
He also makes cool ways for millennials to move around the office(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180110/5a6e3a4f9805cfeae1ccf66fc419b6ad.jpg)
Okay two things, one, I'm buying his hops and two, I rarely regret being born when I was (I mean it didn't totally suck being young in the 70s and 80s) but that's just not fair.   Youth truly is wasted on the young!
(First office bldg I worked in had an atrium you could look down like that.  But only way there was 70 year old elevator, and only thing at bottom was vending machine with stale Toast-Chee crackers.  Bet they have video games and curated snacks down there.)
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: HoosierBrew on January 10, 2018, 12:17:53 PM
Who is "he?" Now I want "his" hops!


His name is Ted Hausotter. He sells his hops on eBay. Be sure to verify him as the seller. Even his year old hops are very good. Ships quickly, too. Can't recommend enough.
I see he sells whole and pellet. Are both of equally exceptional quality? Does he choose lots before pelletizing?



I only use his pellets, so I can't speak to anything about the whole hops or process. Like Jim, I'd be amazed if they weren't excellent as well.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Robert on January 10, 2018, 12:26:32 PM
Who is "he?" Now I want "his" hops!


His name is Ted Hausotter. He sells his hops on eBay. Be sure to verify him as the seller. Even his year old hops are very good. Ships quickly, too. Can't recommend enough.
I see he sells whole and pellet. Are both of equally exceptional quality? Does he choose lots before pelletizing?



I only use his pellets, so I can't speak to anything about the whole hops or process. Like Jim, I'd be amazed if they weren't excellent as well.
Good, it's pellets I want.  Wanted to make sure the whole process was under the watch of this wizard.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 10, 2018, 04:32:16 PM
Who is "he?" Now I want "his" hops!


His name is Ted Hausotter. He sells his hops on eBay. Be sure to verify him as the seller. Even his year old hops are very good. Ships quickly, too. Can't recommend enough.
I see he sells whole and pellet. Are both of equally exceptional quality? Does he choose lots before pelletizing?

For American hops, yes.  He has his own pellet mill.  I think continental hops come already pelletized, but the quality is still excellent.  I pretty much always just get pellets from him these days.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 10, 2018, 04:33:09 PM
I know Ted and if he sold anything less than exceptional, I'd be shocked.

Indeed.  He doesn't sell anything he wouldn't use himself and he's picky!
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: bayareabrewer on January 10, 2018, 04:42:43 PM
I know Ted and if he sold anything less than exceptional, I'd be shocked.

Indeed.  He doesn't sell anything he wouldn't use himself and he's picky!

a saison I made featuring his edelweiss hop blend took BOS at a comp a little while back.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Robert on January 10, 2018, 07:32:28 PM
Thanks, all! I just ordered some 2017 Edelweiss and 2016 Magnum.  Won't make it in time for this weekend's brew day, but with all your gushing reviews, I can hardly wait for brews to come!  I see my year shaping up: Edelweiss, Bru'n Water,  and my eternal quest for the perfect Pils.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Robert on January 18, 2018, 05:06:22 PM
Got my hops from Ted!  Haven't opened them to smell them, I'll wait till I'm ready to weigh out my charges for next brew in a week or so (can hardly wait) -- but what a beautiful,  even, deep green color! (And his prices, how can he do it?!)
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Robert on January 25, 2018, 05:23:46 PM
Opened up my hops today to weigh out this weekend's charges.  Wow! If this is what pellet hops are supposed to be like, I've really never had hops before!  Whole different level of aroma and sticky resinousness (is that a word?) Can't wait to see what they do in a brew. Repacked them double vac sealed, hope they stay just this fresh!
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 25, 2018, 05:24:56 PM
Opened up my hops today to weigh out this weekend's charges.  Wow! If this is what pellet hops are supposed to be like, I've really never had hops before!  Whole different level of aroma and sticky resinousness (is that a word?) Can't wait to see what they do in a brew. Repacked them double vac sealed, hope they stay just this fresh!

Were they from Ted?
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Robert on January 25, 2018, 05:25:59 PM
^^^^
Yep!
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on January 25, 2018, 05:41:17 PM
^^^^
Yep!

Then I'm not surprised at the quality.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Wilbur on February 26, 2018, 06:09:36 PM
Citra has Hallertau Mittelfrüh in its breeding list.
https://ychhops.com/varieties/citra-brand-hbc-394-cv


I'd seen that. I wonder how Citra ended up so intense and oily with parentage of mostly less intense hops?
Same way Lemondrop is so much less intense than its mother Cascade?  Or that Cascade itself has changed so much?  Every hop is its own thing, it seems.


I get that. Just seems the jump in intensity from Citra's parentage to Citra is a lot bigger than the drop off from Cascade to Lemondrop. I'm sure the answer lies in our ability nowadays to manipulate genetic factors in forming new hybrids. Pretty interesting regardless.
It might also show just how much we don't know about genetics, or to what degree genes and/or other factors are really determining characteristics.  The fact that cloned varieties change so much with time and place suggests genetics aren't the be all and end all.

On topic: Any pairing tips for Mandarina Bavaria? I'm looking to make a nice lager, not particularly any one style. I'll probably use mostly Vienna so I can use up the rest of that sack.

Hops and many other commercial plants are propagated asexually through rhizomes or cuttings. Breeding may be done to develop new varieties, but never for propagating or generating new plants. This is one of the coolest things in horticulture/agriculture. The net result is that asexual propagation through cuttings, rhizomes, stem cuttings, etc. yield a plant that is genetically identical to the plant the cutting was taken from it. In a way, when you plant Hallertau or Cascade, you have the exact same plant someone raised in the 1960's, the 1900's, 1800's, etc. I believe the Brulosophy podcast had an interview with Hopsteiner where they talk about developing hop varieties, some kind of genetic identification to identify plants for further development.

https://extension2.missouri.edu/mg3 (https://extension2.missouri.edu/mg3)
http://msue.anr.msu.edu/uploads/234/78941/Hop_Intro_-_3_Varietal_Information_and_Propagation_-_Julie_Kane.pdf (http://msue.anr.msu.edu/uploads/234/78941/Hop_Intro_-_3_Varietal_Information_and_Propagation_-_Julie_Kane.pdf)
https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/extension-gardener-handbook/13-propagation#section_heading_5635 (https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/extension-gardener-handbook/13-propagation#section_heading_5635)


I think there's a lot in terms on stress on the plant, soil type, etc. that affects hop flavor. I like Stan Hieronymus's writeup on terroir.

https://appellationbeer.com/blog/cascade-a-study-in-hop-terroir/ (https://appellationbeer.com/blog/cascade-a-study-in-hop-terroir/)
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 26, 2018, 09:28:04 PM
I did a pale ale that was all Mandarina, and really liked it.

About to rack a Pale Ale into a keg that was bittered with Magnum, has Mandarina and Hüll Melon in the whirlpool, and the dry hopped with those too. 2:1 ratio of MB and HÜll Melon.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: denny on February 26, 2018, 09:47:10 PM
I did a pale ale that was all Mandarina, and really liked it.

About to rack a Pale Ale into a keg that was buttered with Magnum, has Mandarina and Hüll Melon in the whirlpool, and the dry hopped with those too. 2:1 ratio of MB and HÜll Melon.

Yummmm, that Magnum is buttery!  :)
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: Iliff Ave Brewhouse on February 26, 2018, 10:38:47 PM
My pilsner is hopped late with HM then dryhopped with MB. It pairs really well and has a very noble quality to it with a slight hint of orange/citrus.
Title: Re: Mandarina Bavaria disgusting?!
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 27, 2018, 03:29:26 AM
I did a pale ale that was all Mandarina, and really liked it.

About to rack a Pale Ale into a keg that was buttered with Magnum, has Mandarina and Hüll Melon in the whirlpool, and the dry hopped with those too. 2:1 ratio of MB and HÜll Melon.

Yummmm, that Magnum is buttery!  :)
I will blame autocorrect , but the i and u are side by side.  8). Fixed.