Homebrewers Association  AHA Forum
General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: scrap iron on January 23, 2018, 03:16:18 PM

So I finally got some BTB sold in the US through ebay. I am ready to try out the Trifecta mix on a warm day, thank God, coming soon. My past usage of just SMB was set at 30ppm and have some good results with less than 10ppm Sulfites left in finished beer per test strips. I recently made a mash cap and wonder if I should reduce it more. I seen that last recommendation for Trifecta mix was .25g/gal, doing math for my next batch I get 1.9g of the mix for a 7.75 gal nosparge mash. This breaks down to .87g SMB/.87g AA/.1g BTB. Does this look right, it seems to reduce the SMB slightly but then adds AA at .87g? In other words before I used .87g of SMB only and now I use that plus that amount of AA and .1g BTB. Sorry for the long post but I am not sure if I got this right and need to ask the forum members, thanks.

If you had good results with 30 ppm MBS, you could try an amount of SBT that will contain 20 (or 25) ppm MBS. That would be 0.17 (or 0.21) g/gal. The spreadsheet on lowoxygenbrewing.com contains a calculator for this kind of stuff.

If you had good results with 30 ppm MBS, you could try an amount of SBT that will contain 20 (or 25) ppm MBS. That would be 0.17 (or 0.21) g/gal. The spreadsheet on lowoxygenbrewing.com contains a calculator for this kind of stuff.
Thanks for the reply, I have tried to use the spreadsheet but I don't have Excel only libre office. My main concern is adding more things to the mash then before. Are the 2530ppm amounts referring to total trifecta mix or just the SMB amounts in the mix ? In other words, before I used .87g of SMB[sulfite] only and with the mix I use .87g SMB/.87g AA/ .1g BTB? This is what I am confused about, 1.84g of mix compared to .87g of just SMB used in batches before.

If you had good results with 30 ppm MBS, you could try an amount of SBT that will contain 20 (or 25) ppm MBS. That would be 0.17 (or 0.21) g/gal. The spreadsheet on lowoxygenbrewing.com contains a calculator for this kind of stuff.
Thanks for the reply, I have tried to use the spreadsheet but I don't have Excel only libre office. My main concern is adding more things to the mash then before. Are the 2530ppm amounts referring to total trifecta mix or just the SMB amounts in the mix ? In other words, before I used .87g of SMB[sulfite] only and with the mix I use .87g SMB/.87g AA/ .1g BTB? This is what I am confused about, 1.84g of mix compared to .87g of just SMB used in batches before.
In the spreadsheet you put in the amount of SMB you want. Say 20 ppm. Since SMB is 45% of SBT, you will then add around 45 ppm of SBT, which will then translate into 0.17 g/gal. Which is why the imperial system was invented by a stoned sadist. ;)

I was able to open Excel on a trial basis and to input into the spreadsheet. Looks like I was looking at it right and there is a higher amount total going into the mash. At 30ppm for SMB in a 7.75 gal mash that amounts to around .87g each for SMB and AA, and .2g of BTB. A total of 1.94 "Trifecta mix" going into the mash. Thanks for the help Frank. By the way my Grandmother was born in Brussels, her family came to US during the first World War. à votre santé , Mike

A distant member of my family emigrated to Canada after the war. He called himself Mike, but his real name was Marcel. From now on you are Marcel.

I was able to open Excel on a trial basis and to input into the spreadsheet. Looks like I was looking at it right and there is a higher amount total going into the mash. At 30ppm for SMB in a 7.75 gal mash that amounts to around .87g each for SMB and AA, and .2g of BTB. A total of 1.94 "Trifecta mix" going into the mash. Thanks for the help Frank. By the way my Grandmother was born in Brussels, her family came to US during the first World War. à votre santé , Mike
If you have all components separately (BtB, AA, and S/KMB) then you're best off picking your level of sulfites first (10ppm, 20ppm, 30ppm, whatever). Once you know that amount, use the exact same amount of AA since they work in conjunction with each other. Finally, use the widelystated amount of BtB in your mash, and decide if you should use any in the boil. The general feeling about where or not to use any in the boil is that if you have copper/iron somewhere in or after the boil, then use BtB in the boil as well at the widelystated amount. If you don't have copper/iron anywhere during/after the boil, then forego the BtB boil addition.
I would personally recommend a lower starting amount of sulfites than 30ppm if you're using any methods or processes that help mitigate oxygen ingress (1525ppm). If you're making no other changes to your system/process then 30ppm should be fine.

A distant member of my family emigrated to Canada after the war. He called himself Mike, but his real name was Marcel. From now on you are Marcel.
My Grandmother and her brothers came to Canada first and then on to KC. I remember the story of Grandmother being bullied in school in the US because her last name sounded like the Kaiser.

I would personally recommend a lower starting amount of sulfites than 30ppm if you're using any methods or processes that help mitigate oxygen ingress (1525ppm). If you're making no other changes to your system/process then 30ppm should be fine. I made a mash cap so I went with 25 ppm, I wasn't sure about the AA amounts so I appreciate the advice stpug.

A distant member of my family emigrated to Canada after the war. He called himself Mike, but his real name was Marcel. From now on you are Marcel.
My Grandmother and her brothers came to Canada first and then on to KC. I remember the story of Grandmother being bullied in school in the US because her last name sounded like the Kaiser.
De Keyser :)

A distant member of my family emigrated to Canada after the war. He called himself Mike, but his real name was Marcel. From now on you are Marcel.
My Grandmother and her brothers came to Canada first and then on to KC. I remember the story of Grandmother being bullied in school in the US because her last name sounded like the Kaiser.
De Keyser :)
That's right her name was De Keyser. I'm part Irish and part Belgian so I have to like beer ;)

A distant member of my family emigrated to Canada after the war. He called himself Mike, but his real name was Marcel. From now on you are Marcel.
My Grandmother and her brothers came to Canada first and then on to KC. I remember the story of Grandmother being bullied in school in the US because her last name sounded like the Kaiser.
De Keyser :)
That's right her name was De Keyer. I'm part Irish and part Belgian so I have to like beer ;)
The best of both worlds: an alcoholic addicted to good beer!

I was able to open Excel on a trial basis and to input into the spreadsheet. Looks like I was looking at it right and there is a higher amount total going into the mash. At 30ppm for SMB in a 7.75 gal mash that amounts to around .87g each for SMB and AA, and .2g of BTB. A total of 1.94 "Trifecta mix" going into the mash. Thanks for the help Frank. By the way my Grandmother was born in Brussels, her family came to US during the first World War. à votre santé , Mike
If you have all components separately (BtB, AA, and S/KMB) then you're best off picking your level of sulfites first (10ppm, 20ppm, 30ppm, whatever). Once you know that amount, use the exact same amount of AA since they work in conjunction with each other. Finally, use the widelystated amount of BtB in your mash, and decide if you should use any in the boil. The general feeling about where or not to use any in the boil is that if you have copper/iron somewhere in or after the boil, then use BtB in the boil as well at the widelystated amount. If you don't have copper/iron anywhere during/after the boil, then forego the BtB boil addition.
I would personally recommend a lower starting amount of sulfites than 30ppm if you're using any methods or processes that help mitigate oxygen ingress (1525ppm). If you're making no other changes to your system/process then 30ppm should be fine.
I found this thread after searching for hours last night trying to get instructions on how to add the trifecta.
Is it really this simple? I was thinking I had to use all kinds of math to get the percents of each ingredient and then it would add up to 100% based on total grams needed... very confused.
My friend found the sheet somewhere, not not on the lodo sight....
You set the ppm number, find your water volume and add the number in grams of both SKM and AA. Then use the BTB tab to do the same based on your desired dosage number of gh/l ??
thanks haeffnkr

I was not able to find the LO spreadsheet online, where did your friend find it? It sounds like you have it right. I have settled on 25ppm for SMB for my system. This equals .21g per gallon of water used. At 30ppm SMB it equals .25g per gallon. On my last brew, no sparge, I had a total of 7.75 gals mash @ 25ppm SMB. This amounts to 1.6275g of the "trifecta mix", .73g SMB. .73g AA and .16g BTB. My scale goes down to tenths of a gram so I use that number. As a reminder the "trifecta mix" is at 45% SMB, 45% AA, and 10% BTB. The LO people said this adds about 25ppm sulfate and 6ppm sodium at the 25ppm SMB setting. Hope this helps and let us know where you found the spreadsheet.

I found this thread after searching for hours last night trying to get instructions on how to add the trifecta.
Is it really this simple? I was thinking I had to use all kinds of math to get the percents of each ingredient and then it would add up to 100% based on total grams needed... very confused.
My friend found the sheet somewhere, not not on the lodo sight....
You set the ppm number, find your water volume and add the number in grams of both SKM and AA. Then use the BTB tab to do the same based on your desired dosage number of gh/l ??
thanks haeffnkr
No calculator required (just forget the percentages, as they aren't really useful):
1.) Determine desired ppm of SMB/PMB and calculate grams:
For Powder  Grams = ( PPM (MB) * Volume (l) ) / 1000
For Campden  Grams = ( ( PPM (MB) * Volume (l) ) / 1000 ) / 0.75
2.) Add same gram amount of AA
3.) Dose BTB per manufacturer specs
4.) Calculate pH Drop:
pH Drop =  ( PPM (MB) / 100 ) * 0.1
5.) Calculate Minerals:
For SMB  Na = ( PPM (MB) / 100 ) * 24
SO4 = ( PPM (MB) / 100 ) * 101
For KMB  K = ( PPM (MB) / 100 ) * 35
SO4 = ( PPM (MB) / 100 ) * 87
RECAP:
1.) Forget the Trifecta percentages, i.e. they are a hindrance, not a target
2.) Decide on SMB/PMB PPM value
3.) Calculate grams of SMB/PMB
4.) Duplicate that value with AA
5.) Dose BTB per specs
6.) Calculate and factor in pH drop
7.) Calculate minerals

Thanks for the update and calculations Big Monk, haven't been to the LO site in a while. I used the calculations you provided to check my last brew additions. SMB and AA was right but I was under dosing the Brewtan B maybe because of the % amounts thing. The guidelines for BtB are 24g per Hectoliter so at 3g per Hectoliter that's about .9g for my 8 gal mash. I have always liked math and prefer the calculations to a spreadsheet. I printed a copy of your formulas, thanks for setting me straight.