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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: James K on February 01, 2018, 06:58:00 PM

Title: High temp fermentation
Post by: James K on February 01, 2018, 06:58:00 PM
I was wondering the effects of a high temp on a beer post primary fermentation.
I have a sour going, it is in secondary and i fermented the beer at 85*. Because I needed my temp controller I allowed the beer to lower its temp to 68*up to 72* because the controller was for a neipa.

I just left the temp probe out after I transferred the neipa, but the heat wrap on, because I wanted to clean and sanitize the thermwell probe. I left the probe alone for a day and when I put my thermwell probe back in the sour the reading was at 94*.

Could anything bad happen from this? The temp is back down In the 80s. Around 85*.
Can off flavors be created from too high a temp?

I used 3711 yeast. Brett b. And a Belgian sour mix.

Thank you for discussing.
Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: kramerog on February 01, 2018, 11:39:21 PM
You might find yeast autolysis; the beer may have soy sauce flavors.
Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: Richard on February 01, 2018, 11:44:05 PM
Could anything bad happen from this? Definitely a possibility
Did anything bad actually happen from this? Dunno, depends on the length of time

High temps during primary definitely affect the flavor profile coming from the yeast. In secondary that is not an issue. Considering that it was fermented at 85, it seems unlikely that a reasonably short excursion to 94 would totally ruin it.

The best way to tell if there are off flavors is to taste it.
Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: TANSTAAFB on February 02, 2018, 04:26:49 AM
You might find yeast autolysis; the beer may have soy sauce flavors.
What? Really curious as to the basis of your opinion...

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Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: TANSTAAFB on February 02, 2018, 04:31:42 AM
I'll bet you a homebrew that your beer is fine. I always crank the temps on Saisons (ramping one right now using WLP590 French Saison and WLP644 Saccharomyces Bruxellensis Trois) to make sure they attenuate fully. Drinking the incredibly delicious product of the last brew using those yeasts as a split batch saison. RDWHAHB!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180202/621fd6d016db24c97051ddcbb78b1718.jpg)

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Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: kramerog on February 02, 2018, 05:05:41 AM
You might find yeast autolysis; the beer may have soy sauce flavors.
What? Really curious as to the basis of your opinion...

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https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/DQXAk4DwuE/autolysis/

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Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: TANSTAAFB on February 02, 2018, 05:12:22 AM
You might find yeast autolysis; the beer may have soy sauce flavors.
What? Really curious as to the basis of your opinion...

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https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/DQXAk4DwuE/autolysis/

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Dude, autolysis on the homebrew scale is a freakin bogeyman. Is it possible? yes. Is it likely? No. And secondary fermentation of a brett saison? I don't even see how autolysis is a factor. Dropping a cryptic post that just mentions autolysis and then posting a link to a description of autolysis is not a useful contribution to the question. Just sayin...

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Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: kramerog on February 02, 2018, 05:26:13 AM
You might find yeast autolysis; the beer may have soy sauce flavors.
What? Really curious as to the basis of your opinion...

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
https://beerandbrewing.com/dictionary/DQXAk4DwuE/autolysis/

Sent from my Moto Z (2) using Tapatalk
Dude, autolysis on the homebrew scale is a freakin bogeyman. Is it possible? yes. Is it likely? No. And secondary fermentation of a brett saison? I don't even see how autolysis is a factor. Dropping a cryptic post that just mentions autolysis and then posting a link to a description of autolysis is not a useful contribution to the question. Just sayin...

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You asked, I answered. I never said it would happen, I said it might.

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Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: James K on February 02, 2018, 06:12:52 PM
I'll bet you a homebrew that your beer is fine. I always crank the temps on Saisons (ramping one right now using WLP590 French Saison and WLP644 Saccharomyces Bruxellensis Trois) to make sure they attenuate fully. Drinking the incredibly delicious product of the last brew using those yeasts as a split batch saison. RDWHAHB!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180202/621fd6d016db24c97051ddcbb78b1718.jpg)

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This is the only beer I made so far with the luxury of heat control during primary. It finished visually very quickly and was starting to for pelicle before I had to take it down to 68*. Since being back on heat at 80* the pelicle has started to reform.

I am with you on the thinking it’s fine. Maybe long term 90s might be bad.
Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: denny on February 02, 2018, 09:30:29 PM
I'll bet you a homebrew that your beer is fine. I always crank the temps on Saisons (ramping one right now using WLP590 French Saison and WLP644 Saccharomyces Bruxellensis Trois) to make sure they attenuate fully. Drinking the incredibly delicious product of the last brew using those yeasts as a split batch saison. RDWHAHB!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180202/621fd6d016db24c97051ddcbb78b1718.jpg)

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

The key to making sure saison ferment fully (those made with the Dupont stain at least) appears tpo be open fermentation. 

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/saison-yeast-airlock-vs-open-ferment-does-it-prevent-stall

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/episode-18-saison-under-pressure
Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: TANSTAAFB on February 02, 2018, 10:04:13 PM
I'll bet you a homebrew that your beer is fine. I always crank the temps on Saisons (ramping one right now using WLP590 French Saison and WLP644 Saccharomyces Bruxellensis Trois) to make sure they attenuate fully. Drinking the incredibly delicious product of the last brew using those yeasts as a split batch saison. RDWHAHB!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180202/621fd6d016db24c97051ddcbb78b1718.jpg)

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

The key to making sure saison ferment fully (those made with the Dupont stain at least) appears tpo be open fermentation. 

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/saison-yeast-airlock-vs-open-ferment-does-it-prevent-stall

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/episode-18-saison-under-pressure
Thanks for the links Denny, I have not tried open fermentation. I use Speidel fermenters, would I just leave the big lid off? Maybe throw my Wilserbag over it to keep dog hair and critters out?

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Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: denny on February 02, 2018, 10:24:55 PM
Leave the lid off and put some foil loosely over the top is what Drew does.
Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: TANSTAAFB on February 02, 2018, 11:09:24 PM
Leave the lid off and put some foil loosely over the top is what Drew does.


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Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: James K on February 03, 2018, 07:12:10 PM
Leave the lid off and put some foil loosely over the top is what Drew does.

I have always wanted to try a open fermentation or even a spontaneous one. What is the purpose of the foil? Yea it is loosely on but does air go in and out of the vessel? I feel like not having an airlock or blowoff valve would/could lead to some kind of contamination.
Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: TANSTAAFB on February 03, 2018, 07:14:47 PM
Leave the lid off and put some foil loosely over the top is what Drew does.

I have always wanted to try a open fermentation or even a spontaneous one. What is the purpose of the foil? Yea it is loosely on but does air go in and out of the vessel? I feel like not having an airlock or blowoff valve would/could lead to some kind of contamination.
Same thing as putting foil on your starter. Stuff won't crawl under the foil, you just want to stop stuff from falling/ floating in.

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Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: klickitat jim on February 03, 2018, 07:22:15 PM
One of the most powerful tools against contamination is pitching enough healthy yeast to quickly dominate the wort, and drop the ph to where most contaminants are unable to survive. If the fear is a few stray brett cells or pedio, etc... I think of it this way. If I were trying to get Brett or pedio to produce a noticeable effect, do I think a few airborne cells would be enough? No. Then you have theoretical vs reality. Are these guys who use foil for "open" fermenting experiencing contaminated beers. No.
Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: BrewBama on February 04, 2018, 12:27:22 AM

Same thing as putting foil on your starter. Stuff won't crawl under the foil, you just want to stop stuff from falling/ floating in.

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Like deer or whatever. ;)


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Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: klickitat jim on February 04, 2018, 12:41:17 AM
HA!
Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: Robert on February 04, 2018, 05:57:48 AM

Same thing as putting foil on your starter. Stuff won't crawl under the foil, you just want to stop stuff from falling/ floating in.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

Like deer or whatever. ;)


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I live in the city now so I don't need foil.
Title: Re: High temp fermentation
Post by: bayareabrewer on February 05, 2018, 05:05:52 PM
I'll bet you a homebrew that your beer is fine. I always crank the temps on Saisons (ramping one right now using WLP590 French Saison and WLP644 Saccharomyces Bruxellensis Trois) to make sure they attenuate fully. Drinking the incredibly delicious product of the last brew using those yeasts as a split batch saison. RDWHAHB!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180202/621fd6d016db24c97051ddcbb78b1718.jpg)

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

The key to making sure saison ferment fully (those made with the Dupont stain at least) appears tpo be open fermentation. 

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/experiments/saison-yeast-airlock-vs-open-ferment-does-it-prevent-stall

https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/episode-18-saison-under-pressure

if the DuPont strain(s?) are so pressure sensitive, then how do people bottle carb with the strain? The more I've used the DuPont strain the more I become convinced it is a wild sacch.