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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: majorvices on February 03, 2018, 11:25:54 PM

Title: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 03, 2018, 11:25:54 PM
Don't get me wrong, I still drink them from time to time. I have a keg on right now. But here's my top reasons.

1) You can't "downshift" meaning: If you drink an IPA the only thing you can really enjoy the rest of the night is hoppy beers. Hops just destroy your pallet. Go try drinking a nice German Dunkel after a hoppy IPA. You can't really enjoy it. OTOH if you drink a dunkel you can switch to pils, or doppelbock or barley wine or .... even IPA!

2) ANYTHING will make them taste odd. I had chapped lips. I put on some chapstick. Tried to drink an IPA and could not get my head around what I was tasting - just tasted bad. Or the time I brought some "Italian Ices" into the brewery. Went to taste an IPA and was like "WTF is wrong with this". Had to ban italian ice after that.

3) Shelf life.

4) Pain in the add to brew. Probably not as much of a problem on the home brew level. Dissolved o2 is an issue in how you add the dry hops though (see #3).

5) Hazy IPAs are annoying.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Wilbur on February 03, 2018, 11:54:06 PM
Don't get me wrong, I still drink them from time to time. I have a keg on right now. But here's my top reasons.

1) You can't "downshift" meaning: If you drink an IPA the only thing you can really enjoy the rest of the night is hoppy beers. Hops just destroy your pallet.
Go try drinking a nice German Dunkel after a hoppy IPA. You can't really enjoy it. OTOH if you drink a dunkel you can switch to pils, or doppelbock or barley wine or .... even IPA!

2) ANYTHING will make them taste odd. I had chapped lips. I put on some chapstick. Tried to drink an IPA and could not get my head around what I was tasting - just tasted bad. Or the time I brought some "Italian Ices" into the brewery. Went to taste an IPA and was like "WTF is wrong with this". Had to ban italian ice after that.

3) Shelf life.

4) Pain in the add to brew. Probably not as much of a problem on the home brew level. Dissolved o2 is an issue in how you add the dry hops though (see #3).

5) Hazy IPAs are annoyinghard to make well.

Fixed it for you!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l0O5B4ckht4LrgY12/giphy.gif)

I think spicy food is kind of the same way sometimes.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: mabrungard on February 04, 2018, 01:55:29 AM
It was during the San Diego AHA conference that I realized that I didn't really enjoy IPA that much. In that town with virtually nothing but IPA's available, it was hard to seek a craft alternative.

I still enjoy a nice IPA occassionally, but it's long past a position of 'go to'.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 04, 2018, 02:02:53 AM
Come on everybody, let's here the chant: Pils! Pils! Pils! ....
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 04, 2018, 02:03:27 AM
Don't get me wrong, I still drink them from time to time. I have a keg on right now. But here's my top reasons.

1) You can't "downshift" meaning: If you drink an IPA the only thing you can really enjoy the rest of the night is hoppy beers. Hops just destroy your pallet.
Go try drinking a nice German Dunkel after a hoppy IPA. You can't really enjoy it. OTOH if you drink a dunkel you can switch to pils, or doppelbock or barley wine or .... even IPA!

2) ANYTHING will make them taste odd. I had chapped lips. I put on some chapstick. Tried to drink an IPA and could not get my head around what I was tasting - just tasted bad. Or the time I brought some "Italian Ices" into the brewery. Went to taste an IPA and was like "WTF is wrong with this". Had to ban italian ice after that.

3) Shelf life.

4) Pain in the add to brew. Probably not as much of a problem on the home brew level. Dissolved o2 is an issue in how you add the dry hops though (see #3).

5) Hazy IPAs are annoyinghard to make well.

Fixed it for you!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l0O5B4ckht4LrgY12/giphy.gif)

I think spicy food is kind of the same way sometimes.

Buddy I got friends in the industry that are making the "best".... according to users and awards.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 04, 2018, 02:04:37 AM
Come on everybody, let's here the chant: Pils! Pils! Pils! ....

I lead a team of brewers who are chanting for peanut butter beers and hazy IPAs ... and I'm like, you haven't even brewed a good kolsch or pils yet.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Wilbur on February 04, 2018, 02:18:30 AM
Come on everybody, let's here the chant: Pils! Pils! Pils! ....

I lead a team of brewers who are chanting for peanut butter beers and hazy IPAs ... and I'm like, you haven't even brewed a good kolsch or pils yet.

Peanut butter beers are all over Central IL, no idea why. Went on a bus trip to a few breweries, almost every place had a peanut butter porter or stout.

Lucky for you on the availability, hazy ipa's seems like a real hit or miss style.

I haven't tasted a lot of kolsches that are satisfying, a lot better luck with satisfying pilsners. Any thoughts on why that is?

Final thought: I honestly have also been shifting of IPAs, but mostly because I've found a place with an amazing Norwegian Farmhouse Ale.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 04, 2018, 02:19:01 AM
Come on everybody, let's here the chant: Pils! Pils! Pils! ....

I lead a team of brewers who are chanting for peanut butter beers and hazy IPAs ... and I'm like, you haven't even brewed a good kolsch or pils yet.
And as a side peeve:  You think hazy IPAs are annoying? How come whenever I DO see a brewery (major ones even) putting out a Pils, it's not crystal clear?  Get you $#!+ together, craft brewers, step up like a real brewery.  I now return you to your regularly scheduled fray.
Title: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 04, 2018, 02:32:00 AM
Come on everybody, let's here the chant: Pils! Pils! Pils! ....

I lead a team of brewers who are chanting for peanut butter beers and hazy IPAs ... and I'm like, you haven't even brewed a good kolsch or pils yet.

Peanut butter beers are all over Central IL, no idea why. Went on a bus trip to a few breweries, almost every place had a peanut butter porter or stout.

Lucky for you on the availability, hazy ipa's seems like a real hit or miss style.

I haven't tasted a lot of kolsches that are satisfying, a lot better luck with satisfying pilsners. Any thoughts on why that is?

Final thought: I honestly have also been shifting of IPAs, but mostly because I've found a place with an amazing Norwegian Farmhouse Ale.
You can hide a mediocre beer behind crap tons of hops. You can’t hide a bad pils.....if it’s bad it screams bad.


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Phil_M on February 04, 2018, 02:34:22 AM
Come on everybody, let's here the chant: Pils! Pils! Pils! ....

I lead a team of brewers who are chanting for peanut butter beers and hazy IPAs ... and I'm like, you haven't even brewed a good kolsch or pils yet.
And as a side peeve:  You think hazy IPAs are annoying? How come whenever I DO see a brewery (major ones even) putting out a Pils, it's not crystal clear?  Get you $#!+ together, craft brewers, step up like a real brewery.  I now return you to your regularly scheduled fray.

Why stop at pils not being clear? The local brewpub is the same way. Bitter, Stout, Pils, Helles, Cream Ale, IPA, Brown Ale, Red Ale, Porter...in the last year I've tried all those styles, and all have been cloudy.

And not just a little cloudy, we're talking you can taste the yeast cloudy. Whatever yeast they use seems to have a peanut-like flavor. On rare occasions when the beer is clear that flavor isn't there.

I get that small breweries may not have time to let beer settle, so maybe we should be fussing at the consumers willing to buy crappy beer...
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 04, 2018, 02:50:24 AM
Come on everybody, let's here the chant: Pils! Pils! Pils! ....

I lead a team of brewers who are chanting for peanut butter beers and hazy IPAs ... and I'm like, you haven't even brewed a good kolsch or pils yet.
And as a side peeve:  You think hazy IPAs are annoying? How come whenever I DO see a brewery (major ones even) putting out a Pils, it's not crystal clear?  Get you $#!+ together, craft brewers, step up like a real brewery.  I now return you to your regularly scheduled fray.

Why stop at pils not being clear? The local brewpub is the same way. Bitter, Stout, Pils, Helles, Cream Ale, IPA, Brown Ale, Red Ale, Porter...in the last year I've tried all those styles, and all have been cloudy.

And not just a little cloudy, we're talking you can taste the yeast cloudy. Whatever yeast they use seems to have a peanut-like flavor. On rare occasions when the beer is clear that flavor isn't there.

I get that small breweries may not have time to let beer settle, so maybe we should be fussing at the consumers willing to buy crappy beer...

Time to let beer settle? Read Kunze.  German brewers (and he considers this ideal practice)  ferment eight days, lager seven to ten, and filter and carbonate. As a homebrewer, I lager two or three weeks and filter and carbonate, just because I don't get around to moving the batch on.  Even with IPA, I remember Teri Fahrendorf being quoted as saying "an unfiltered IPA is like an unfocused picture."  Unless it's a Hefe or a Wit, hazy beer is a sign of: a) seriously stale beer or b) seriously slack brewing. Most beer will already be staling by the time it clears itself. Filter.  OK I again return you to whatever.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Phil_M on February 04, 2018, 02:53:31 AM
You're trying to convince the cask ale diehard to filter? Heresy!  :P
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 04, 2018, 02:59:34 AM
You're trying to convince the cask ale diehard to filter? Heresy!  :P
My bad! Cask ale has its own exemption from filtration.  But look how hard the brewers at the turn of the 20th c. worked to develop rapidly clearing yeasts and better finings.  And I can tell you, no matter how much beer is left in cask, as soon as the slightest turbidity appears, good British pub patrons will raise the alarm, and a publican worth his salt will change casks.  Crystal clear bitter is its own special joy.  EDIT  To your point Phil, at the turn of the century, British consumers would not accept running beers unless they were as brilliant as the aged stock beers they were replacing! So yeah, uneducated consumers are part of the problem
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: klickitat jim on February 04, 2018, 03:17:35 AM
Doesn't it seem like most people who switch to craft beer do so because they get tired of drinking the same thing every day? (BMC) Just to... drink the same thing every day. (IPA)

I like them. But I like a lot of things. Honestly, over a six pack of the world's best IPA, I would choose 6 different kind of average, anything else. Of course if a mixer 6 pack actually were available, it would probably be an IPA, a NEIPA, an over hopped Pale Ale, an IPA brewed with Belgian yeast, a Black IPA, and a barrel aged triple IPA.

Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 04, 2018, 03:37:25 AM
Doesn't it seem like most people who switch to craft beer do so because they get tired of drinking the same thing every day? (BMC) Just to... drink the same thing every day. (IPA)

I like them. But I like a lot of things. Honestly, over a six pack of the world's best IPA, I would choose 6 different kind of average, anything else. Of course if a mixer 6 pack actually were available, it would probably be an IPA, a NEIPA, an over hopped Pale Ale, an IPA brewed with Belgian yeast, a Black IPA, and a barrel aged triple IPA.


+1 amen


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 04, 2018, 02:47:39 PM


I haven't tasted a lot of kolsches that are satisfying, a lot better luck with satisfying pilsners. Any thoughts on why that is?


Personal preference? I like both styles very well. I like my kolsch a bit more estery. Pils I like with a solid hop presence.

I should say I don't really have any qualms with the NEIPA style except that the beer geeks are so head over heals about them. That is what I find so truly annoying. I don't particularly care for them personally but I do agree they manage to pack some amazing hop aromas and flavors.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: dls5492 on February 04, 2018, 03:34:00 PM
Whenever I go to a brewery for the first time, I try out their pils, Kolsch, or other similar beer. If it's good, I know they can brew. You can't hide mistakes in those beers.
I like many types of beers. But, there is something amazing about a pils that is well done.
I extend my right hand of fellowship to all the pils brewers out there (like me)!
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 04, 2018, 03:38:52 PM
Come on everybody, let's here the chant: Pils! Pils! Pils! ....
If you ever find yourself in Austin TX, stop at ABGB for some outstanding Pils. The have a lighted sign now that says “Pils Pils Pils”. I didn’t get a picture.

Scroll down to see a picture of their GABF winners. Clear but not filtered, I think, one brewer said he like Biofine-clear.
https://theabgb.com
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 04, 2018, 03:39:00 PM
Whenever I go to a brewery for the first time, I try out their pils, Kolsch, or other similar beer. If it's good, I know they can brew. You can't hide mistakes in those beers.
I like many types of beers. But, there is something amazing about a pils that is well done.
I extend my right hand of fellowship to all the pils brewers out there (like me)!

I shake your hand!
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 04, 2018, 03:43:57 PM
Come on everybody, let's here the chant: Pils! Pils! Pils! ....
If you ever find yourself in Austin TX, stop at ABGB for some outstanding Pils. The have a lighted sign now that says “Pils Pils Pils”. I didn’t get a picture.

Scroll down to see a picture of their GABF winners. Clear but not filtered, I think, one brewer said he like Biofine-clear.
https://theabgb.com
Those are some beautiful beers.  I remember you brought Biofine to my attention elsewhere on the forum, Jeff. I really have to try it, but I recall that it's temperature sensitive and I'll have to wait till after the thaw to order it!
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: denny on February 04, 2018, 03:52:09 PM
It's so trendy to dislike IPA.  I'm not trendy.  I'd say at least 75% of the beers I drink are IPA.  I love them.  I don't find I get palate burnout.  i can easily drink an IPA and then switch to a more subtle style.  What's wrong with you people?  😉
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 04, 2018, 04:18:50 PM
It's so trendy to dislike IPA.  I'm not trendy.  I'd say at least 75% of the beers I drink are IPA.  I love them.  I don't find I get palate burnout.  i can easily drink an IPA and then switch to a more subtle style.  What's wrong with you people?  😉

Not a big trend to dislike them where I live. Quite the opposite. And since I didn't waste my pallet on weed and hops over the years I guess I'm just more sensitive than you.  :D
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: denny on February 04, 2018, 04:46:18 PM
It's so trendy to dislike IPA.  I'm not trendy.  I'd say at least 75% of the beers I drink are IPA.  I love them.  I don't find I get palate burnout.  i can easily drink an IPA and then switch to a more subtle style.  What's wrong with you people?  😉

Not a big trend to dislike them where I live. Quite the opposite. And since I didn't waste my pallet on weed and hops over the years I guess I'm just more sensitive than you.  :D

Keep telling yourself that!  I drink and enjoy subtle beers, too.  But my preference is toward hops.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: narcout on February 04, 2018, 04:55:18 PM
Time to let beer settle? Read Kunze.  German brewers (and he considers this ideal practice)  ferment eight days, lager seven to ten, and filter and carbonate.

I think they filter after maturation/carbonation.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 04, 2018, 05:04:10 PM
Time to let beer settle? Read Kunze.  German brewers (and he considers this ideal practice)  ferment eight days, lager seven to ten, and filter and carbonate.

I think they filter after maturation/carbonation.
Can be done either way.  As long as the CO2 is collected from fermentation, the Reinheitsgebot permits mechanical carbonation. 
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 04, 2018, 05:06:30 PM
Time to let beer settle? Read Kunze.  German brewers (and he considers this ideal practice)  ferment eight days, lager seven to ten, and filter and carbonate.

I think they filter after maturation/carbonation.

You can't filter after carbonation. They lager, then filter or centrifuge, then carb. Centrifuges are awesome BTW. My pilsners and Kolsches are crystal clear.

I do not centrifuge or filter or even fine our IPAs.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: The Beerery on February 04, 2018, 05:25:55 PM
Say what!?!  You certainly can filter carbonated beer.


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: narcout on February 04, 2018, 05:36:48 PM
It's always possible I'm misunderstanding Kunze (and I've only skimmed the portion of Chapter 4 that discusses filtration), but he does say that filtering is done after maturation.  And my understanding is that natural carbonation is achieved during the maturation phase.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 04, 2018, 05:48:41 PM
It's always possible I'm misunderstanding Kunze (and I've only skimmed the portion of Chapter 4 that discusses filtration), but he does say that filtering is done after maturation.  And my understanding is that natural carbonation is achieved during the maturation phase.

It was under the old open fermentation/krausen lager procedure.  In modern conicals, the procedure is a fermentation without pressure, , diacetyl rest (which constitutes maturation) and brief cold storage to prepare for filtration, which is followed by carbonation.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: The Beerery on February 04, 2018, 05:53:50 PM
It's always possible I'm misunderstanding Kunze (and I've only skimmed the portion of Chapter 4 that discusses filtration), but he does say that filtering is done after maturation.  And my understanding is that natural carbonation is achieved during the maturation phase.

It was under the old open fermentation/krausen lager procedure.  In modern conicals, the procedure is a fermentation without pressure, , diacetyl rest (which constitutes maturation) and brief cold storage to prepare for filtration, which is followed by carbonation.
Can you cite the chapter?


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 04, 2018, 05:58:12 PM
^^^^
4.3 covers the older procedures, 4.4 various iteration of procedures in conicals.  (4.5 is filtration, 4.7 carbonation.)
Title: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: The Beerery on February 04, 2018, 06:06:49 PM
Yea I thought so.  So 4.7 is only for a “top up” if needed. Not full force carbonation.


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 04, 2018, 06:17:09 PM
Yea I thought so.  So 4.7 is only for a “top up”. The full force carbonation.


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But it doesn't preclude full force carbonation, and most (non German at least) plants do full force carb.  There are advantages K points out at other places to higher temps and lower pressures in fermentation and maturation.  Moreover it's an equipment issue:  you note that you can filter carbed beer, but it is more difficult, and not all breweries will have the ability to do it. And I've not been arguing for any particular method, I just want the end result.  Homebrewers can do what they want.  If you're charging me cash money for the privilege of drinking your Pils with some overpriced "small plates," it had better be clean and clear.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: The Beerery on February 04, 2018, 06:30:31 PM
Yea I thought so.  So 4.7 is only for a “top up”. The full force carbonation.


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But it doesn't preclude full force carbonation, and most (non German at least) plants do full force carb.  There are advantages K points out at other places to higher temps and lower pressures in fermentation and maturation.  Moreover it's an equipment issue:  you note that you can filter carbed beer, but it is more difficult, and not all breweries will have the ability to do it. And I've not been arguing for any particular method, I just want the end result.  Homebrewers can do what they want.  If you're charging me cash money for the privilege of drinking your Pils with some overpriced "small plates," it had better be clean and clear.

This book is the german brewing bible. So everything you read there within should have that asterisk. If they are RHG compliant they will be "bunging" as it states so in that paragraph. Also filtering while carbonated is just as easy. You set your prv to a higher blow off than the carbonation level.. Simple as that. I have done it countless times. HOWEVER, never once have I been able to do it without a measurable (orbisphere readings) o2 uptake( pre-carbonated or not). But thats not a discussion for here and now.

Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 04, 2018, 06:42:58 PM
My filter will only accommodate 5-6psi, but that's not a matter here either.  I'm also using exogenous CO2.   (In general I think the RHG is irrelevant as a guide to best brewing practices; it's mostly just the absurd result of beaurocrats' uncontrolled elaboration of tax laws from the 30s to the 90s, when another set of administrative overreachers in Brussels started to go to work on reinterpreting it....)
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: dmtaylor on February 04, 2018, 06:43:54 PM
I like IPA, but I'm tired.  Just give me a friggin awesome lager, thank you very much.  I was just at a brewfest yesterday.  IPA everywhere (well that, and s***ty beers with Skittles and suckers and jelly in them).  I finally stumbled upon a very tasty homebrewed lager.  It was a rare sight to behold.  I think that was my favorite beer of the whole night.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 04, 2018, 07:21:26 PM
There’s so many nucleation points on a filter I’m not sure how it could be done. That said I could be wrong.


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 04, 2018, 07:23:22 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180204/99236247a3583fe5b13c13d0d9bf1a5b.jpg)

Regardless, here’s my centrifuged pils I’m drinking right now


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: dls5492 on February 04, 2018, 07:27:25 PM
Whenever I go to a brewery for the first time, I try out their pils, Kolsch, or other similar beer. If it's good, I know they can brew. You can't hide mistakes in those beers.
I like many types of beers. But, there is something amazing about a pils that is well done.
I extend my right hand of fellowship to all the pils brewers out there (like me)!

I shake your hand!
As I yours!
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: narcout on February 04, 2018, 07:27:36 PM
Centrifuges are awesome BTW. My pilsners and Kolsches are crystal clear.

When do you employ the centrifuge?  Can it hold a whole batch?
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 04, 2018, 07:29:21 PM
The beer runs through the centrifuge after lagering. Not sure how big the bowl is exactly but it’s just a process. Takes about 2 hours to centrifuge 60 bbls.


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Title: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: The Beerery on February 04, 2018, 07:31:48 PM
I see your pils and raise you my “non-clarified” pils. 

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180204/4e03ffb5e7da0ac4b6f00c9432c9c628.jpg)




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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 04, 2018, 07:32:46 PM
That’s pretty I’ll grant you that. And nice photography too.


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: tesgüino on February 04, 2018, 09:28:52 PM
So, you're saying that you can detect flaws in a pils, but not an IPA, then go on to blame it on hops hiding the flaws? Not having the palate to tell a good IPA from a flawed one sounds like a personal problem to me.  :o
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Phil_M on February 04, 2018, 09:31:45 PM
Everyone is asking for pils over IPA, which I'll gladly support.

But can we please put regular beer in casks? Cask ale is pretty common...but the beers that end up in the cask are usually some s*** fruit stupidity or other similar experimental beer. Flying Dog had cask ale on tap every Friday in Camden Yards last O's season, and every single one fell into the experimental/whacky for no reason category. I just want a beer to go with my Boogs BBQ and crab dip, not a mango-melon fusion NEIPA.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: denny on February 04, 2018, 10:02:48 PM
I mean, I don't care for helles, but I don't go around shouting about it!   8)
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: klickitat jim on February 04, 2018, 10:05:07 PM
I mean, I don't care for helles, but I don't go around shouting about it!   8)
Too Budweisery for your bud palate?
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: hackrsackr on February 05, 2018, 04:16:25 AM
Let’s not forget breweries need to sell their beer and turn over tanks. Good luck selling a tank of kolsch or pils faster than an over hopped anything. I’m not a fan of many popular things (pop music, reality tv, song and dance comps, malls, savage warrior gladiator runs), but people love that stuff and companies make a crap ton of money schlepping these products (looking at you Timberlake, #horriblehalftimeshow.) IPA will be around until demand dissipates, If the market starts to demand pils, pils will be made. The problem is that for 75 years or so pils variants were all that were available here. So in that sense IPA’s dominance over the past 15 years, pales to the 150 years or so, of pils marketplace dominance. A great kolsch or pils in a market with little demand for it, will equate to a loss, or at the very least, a significant opportunity cost to the brewery.

“Cash rules everything around me, C.R.E.A.M. get the money!” Method Man


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Bilsch on February 05, 2018, 04:19:06 AM
It's so trendy to dislike IPA.  I'm not trendy.  I'd say at least 75% of the beers I drink are IPA.  I love them.  I don't find I get palate burnout.  i can easily drink an IPA and then switch to a more subtle style.  What's wrong with you people?  😉

Trendy, not trendy.. who can keep up with what is in fashion from month to month?
Pils to me though is like the little black dress of beers. Always in style.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 05, 2018, 04:28:20 AM

Pils to me though is like the little black dress of beers. Always in style.

I am totally stealing that line!
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 05, 2018, 05:09:49 AM
Yea I thought so.  So 4.7 is only for a “top up”. The full force carbonation.


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But it doesn't preclude full force carbonation, and most (non German at least) plants do full force carb.  There are advantages K points out at other places to higher temps and lower pressures in fermentation and maturation. 

The Practical Brewer, MBAA 1977 is probably representative of most modern procedure. P. 229 the level of CO2  in beer after normal fermentation is 1.2 v/v.... p.248-9 (modern storage process) covers upward fermentation from 8°-10°C rising to 16°C, crash cooled, chillproofed and filtered, and carbonated.  This is all consistent with K but clarifies the low level of natural carbonation to be supplemented post filtration.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: hackrsackr on February 05, 2018, 07:08:11 AM
How does every topic derail into Kunze and German brewing? 🤦‍♂️

Why I’m not a big fan of these forums any longer.


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Stevie on February 05, 2018, 10:43:25 AM
Just heard James Spencer pronounce NE IPA “Knee-Puh.” People that actually say knee-puh should be wedgied, swirlied, and smacked with a rubber hose.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: swampale on February 05, 2018, 11:58:33 AM
I have 13 gallons of IPA on tap at the moment. Done for awhile. Now it is time to brew lagers until late summer. Then it is time to brew, well you guessed it.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: dmtaylor on February 05, 2018, 12:14:49 PM
Just heard James Spencer pronounce NE IPA “Knee-Puh.” People that actually say knee-puh should be wedgied, swirlied, and smacked with a rubber hose.

I keep calling it "North East", as opposed to "Northwest".  I never call it "juicy".
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: klickitat jim on February 05, 2018, 01:44:01 PM
Chaka say "Knee-pa.... knee-pa, juicy!"(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180205/d0c3a70c059c7f0e2d82ef5ce44d193b.jpg)
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 05, 2018, 01:49:34 PM
Chaka say "Knee-pa.... knee-pa, juicy!"(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180205/d0c3a70c059c7f0e2d82ef5ce44d193b.jpg)

😂
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: klickitat jim on February 05, 2018, 01:52:54 PM
Crap, now I have to make one just for that label
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: dmtaylor on February 05, 2018, 02:24:31 PM
Jim... that was friggin AWESOME!!!!   8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 05, 2018, 03:12:13 PM
Crap, now I have to make one just for that label
I just remembered one I brewed back in the day (It was a Ballantine XXX knockoff) just to use a name on the label:  Tonya Harding's Kneecap Ale.  If only Knee-Pa had been a thing then!
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: denny on February 05, 2018, 03:27:48 PM
I mean, I don't care for helles, but I don't go around shouting about it!   8)
Too Budweisery for your bud palate?

I have yet to find one that didn't tatse too sweet and bland to me.  Just personal taste.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: denny on February 05, 2018, 03:28:35 PM
It's so trendy to dislike IPA.  I'm not trendy.  I'd say at least 75% of the beers I drink are IPA.  I love them.  I don't find I get palate burnout.  i can easily drink an IPA and then switch to a more subtle style.  What's wrong with you people?  😉

Trendy, not trendy.. who can keep up with what is in fashion from month to month?
Pils to me though is like the little black dress of beers. Always in style.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: bayareabrewer on February 05, 2018, 04:57:56 PM
That’s pretty I’ll grant you that. And nice photography too.


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the filters really set the photo off off   ;D
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Nathan on February 05, 2018, 06:54:25 PM
I adjust my beer brewing and drinking with the season Pale ales NEIPA, session ales , Kolcsh and loads of Hiefiwiezen in the summer, Stout porter. Dubbel, Bock and Alt Beer in the winter and fall I agree that if you are having multiple beers in a session start with the most delicate and work up to the bolder flavours Belgian Beers with lots of yeast characters and alcohol will also do a number on your palate Water and food between beers is also a must
We are lucky to be having this debate 30 years ago when I started brewing and drinking good beer was hard to come by and usually came in a green bottle from far away


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Bilsch on February 05, 2018, 10:41:20 PM
How does every topic derail into Kunze and German brewing? 🤦‍♂️
Why I’m not a big fan of these forums any longer.

I like coming here to see what everyone has to say regardless if I agree with them or not.
That some people take the time to back up their writing with sources, IMO, is a bonus.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: petermmitchell on February 05, 2018, 11:13:54 PM
For those of you who love brewing pils as opposed to IPA, what liquid yeast do you recommend to use?  I've tried dry yeast with bad results so far.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 05, 2018, 11:21:59 PM
For those of you who love brewing pils as opposed to IPA, what liquid yeast do you recommend to use?  I've tried dry yeast with bad results so far.
Weihenstephan 34/70, available as WY2124, WLP830, Imperial Global, and probably others.   (The dry W-34/70 is originally the same strain but does not behave like it at all!)
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: stpug on February 06, 2018, 12:10:53 AM
For those of you who love brewing pils as opposed to IPA, what liquid yeast do you recommend to use?  I've tried dry yeast with bad results so far.

Czech Budejovice is a great one for pils that I've used.  2124 is also great (as mentioned above) but takes a little extra time to fully settle.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 06, 2018, 12:18:39 AM
For those of you who love brewing pils as opposed to IPA, what liquid yeast do you recommend to use?  I've tried dry yeast with bad results so far.

Czech Budejovice is a great one for pils that I've used.  2124 is also great (as mentioned above) but takes a little extra time to fully settle.
Hey stpug, 34/70 is indeed powdery (I just came upstairs from adding gelatin finings to a batch) but that does make it attenuate well and clean up after itself.  I've never used the Budejovice.  How does it compare to the 34/70 on temperature tolerance, attenuation, etc?
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: vista on February 07, 2018, 01:33:08 AM
Dilly dilly?


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: vista on February 07, 2018, 01:35:27 AM
I'm not against IPAs, but i will say a couple of weeks ago someone had a little keg of warsteiner...and I may have had a bunch of glasses...and I may have said...this is a really good change of pace.


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 07, 2018, 02:15:21 AM
I mean, I don't care for helles, but I don't go around shouting about it!   8)

Who's shouting? Read what I posted. I'm not a BIG fan of IPA any more. Didn't say i wasn't a fan - hell in the brewery I have a SMASH IPA, a IIPA, a regular IPA and I'm brewing a Pale Ale tomorrow. And buddy, FTR that will be approximately 4,495 gallons of IPA or pale ales that I have brewed since the first of the year. I just happen to favor the doppelbock I have on tap right now.

And I have some legitimate points (at least from a personal perspective). Even chap stick can throw the hops way out of character for me so that I can't figure out what the hell I'm tasting (or gum, candy, etc.) And they do ruin my pallet for other beers.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: klickitat jim on February 07, 2018, 02:32:03 AM
Dilly dilly?


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I heard someone say this today. No clue what it means. I figured it was a millennial thing.

Sorry to interrupt the IPA vs Helles, who hates them more fight. Carry on
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 07, 2018, 02:39:32 AM
Dilly dilly?


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I heard someone say this today. No clue what it means. I figured it was a millennial thing.

Sorry to interrupt the IPA vs Helles, who hates them more fight. Carry on

Dilly dilly is a tag line from a Bud Light ad campaign.  Some brewery in MN (I think) named a beer Dilly dilly as bait, and got a C&D from ABI's lawyers -- best publicity they could ever get!  Latest I saw, they agreed to pay ABI a penalty for infringement on condition the Bud boys gave it to a specified charity.  Good press for ABI. Looks like they were in collusion from the start, no?  Maybe ABI will buy them now.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Wilbur on February 07, 2018, 04:18:29 AM
I mean, I don't care for helles, but I don't go around shouting about it!   8)

Who's shouting? Read what I posted. I'm not a BIG fan of IPA any more. Didn't say i wasn't a fan - hell in the brewery I have a SMASH IPA, a IIPA, a regular IPA and I'm brewing a Pale Ale tomorrow. And buddy, FTR that will be approximately 4,495 gallons of IPA or pale ales that I have brewed since the first of the year. I just happen to favor the doppelbock I have on tap right now.

And I have some legitimate points (at least from a personal perspective). Even chap stick can throw the hops way out of character for me so that I can't figure out what the hell I'm tasting (or gum, candy, etc.) And they do ruin my pallet for other beers.

To be honest, I'm not a fan of SMASH IPAs, they just seem too...one note. I'll take the John Madden award for excellence in beer analysis now please. I need to start either brewing some 2.5 gallon batches of them or figure out a base hop+new hop recipe to do.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 07, 2018, 12:22:13 PM
I mean, I don't care for helles, but I don't go around shouting about it!   8)

Who's shouting? Read what I posted. I'm not a BIG fan of IPA any more. Didn't say i wasn't a fan - hell in the brewery I have a SMASH IPA, a IIPA, a regular IPA and I'm brewing a Pale Ale tomorrow. And buddy, FTR that will be approximately 4,495 gallons of IPA or pale ales that I have brewed since the first of the year. I just happen to favor the doppelbock I have on tap right now.

And I have some legitimate points (at least from a personal perspective). Even chap stick can throw the hops way out of character for me so that I can't figure out what the hell I'm tasting (or gum, candy, etc.) And they do ruin my pallet for other beers.

To be honest, I'm not a fan of SMASH IPAs, they just seem too...one note. I'll take the John Madden award for excellence in beer analysis now please. I need to start either brewing some 2.5 gallon batches of them or figure out a base hop+new hop recipe to do.

Thanks for your honesty. it was really helpful? ;)

Regardless, I'll sell the hell out of.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: ethinson on February 07, 2018, 12:56:53 PM
Dilly dilly?


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I heard someone say this today. No clue what it means. I figured it was a millennial thing.

Sorry to interrupt the IPA vs Helles, who hates them more fight. Carry on

Dilly dilly is a tag line from a Bud Light ad campaign.  Some brewery in MN (I think) named a beer Dilly dilly as bait, and got a C&D from ABI's lawyers -- best publicity they could ever get!  Latest I saw, they agreed to pay ABI a penalty for infringement on condition the Bud boys gave it to a specified charity.  Good press for ABI. Looks like they were in collusion from the start, no?  Maybe ABI will buy them now.

Bud Light also sent them a pair tickets to the Super Bowl, presumably for some employees, but the employees decided to raffle them off for charity. 

The funny part of the story, which I hope means AB had good humor about it, is they sent a guy dressed in character from the commercials as a town crier who walked into the tap room, pulled out a huge scroll and read the C&D.  They agreed to change the name of the beer, and hopefully it ends there.  AB handled it as well as they could, rather than going all pitchforks and torches.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: vista on February 07, 2018, 01:10:08 PM
Sorry to the OP! Didn't mean to turn this into an AB thread. Although I really was not familiar at all with that story.

I've been brewing on and off for a dozen or so years, wife, little kids, house...hard to get it in when wanted. The only few times I brew a year now consist of low hop brews. A bitter, a couple different types of Belgians and dry stouts. I don't have a lot of time to brew, and as much as I would love to experiment with different and new hops, I don't have the time at this stage in my life, so I actually kind of benefit from all of these different breweries going all in on trying it out for me. Will I blast them for being cloudy? Nah.

A couple months ago I read some article, maybe from nyt about how Wall Street brahs don't know anything outside of "dank juicy IPAs" in terms of craft brews...and that to me is sad. Perhaps this huge wave, I consider it the second, of IPA interest will eventually turn more people on to other styles. So in the end major, perhaps you'll end up getting more interest in non-IPA beers that you prefer.


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 07, 2018, 01:12:26 PM
Dilly dilly?


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I heard someone say this today. No clue what it means. I figured it was a millennial thing.

Sorry to interrupt the IPA vs Helles, who hates them more fight. Carry on

Dilly dilly is a tag line from a Bud Light ad campaign.  Some brewery in MN (I think) named a beer Dilly dilly as bait, and got a C&D from ABI's lawyers -- best publicity they could ever get!  Latest I saw, they agreed to pay ABI a penalty for infringement on condition the Bud boys gave it to a specified charity.  Good press for ABI. Looks like they were in collusion from the start, no?  Maybe ABI will buy them now.

Bud Light also sent them a pair tickets to the Super Bowl, presumably for some employees, but the employees decided to raffle them off for charity. 

The funny part of the story, which I hope means AB had good humor about it, is they sent a guy dressed in character from the commercials as a town crier who walked into the tap room, pulled out a huge scroll and read the C&D.  They agreed to change the name of the beer, and hopefully it ends there.  AB handled it as well as they could, rather than going all pitchforks and torches.

Saw the video of the character delivering the c&d -- was very funny!  Clearly Bud did see the little guy's stunt for what it was, and responded in kind.   Makes you wonder why they do "go all pitchforks and torches" when a brewer offends them completely unintentionally.   But these things go way back and aren't restricted to the likes of ABI.  It's anybody with a lawyer I guess.  20+ years ago we had a local issue.  There's a building, long housing restaurants, that's built to look like Independence Hall.  Guy opens brewpub there and names it (no brainer) Liberty Brewing Co.  Fine, until a few years later, Anchor's lawyers say Liberty Ale makes "Liberty" all theirs, and made them rename the brewery. 
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Wilbur on February 07, 2018, 03:10:18 PM
I mean, I don't care for helles, but I don't go around shouting about it!   8)

Who's shouting? Read what I posted. I'm not a BIG fan of IPA any more. Didn't say i wasn't a fan - hell in the brewery I have a SMASH IPA, a IIPA, a regular IPA and I'm brewing a Pale Ale tomorrow. And buddy, FTR that will be approximately 4,495 gallons of IPA or pale ales that I have brewed since the first of the year. I just happen to favor the doppelbock I have on tap right now.

And I have some legitimate points (at least from a personal perspective). Even chap stick can throw the hops way out of character for me so that I can't figure out what the hell I'm tasting (or gum, candy, etc.) And they do ruin my pallet for other beers.

To be honest, I'm not a fan of SMASH IPAs, they just seem too...one note. I'll take the John Madden award for excellence in beer analysis now please. I need to start either brewing some 2.5 gallon batches of them or figure out a base hop+new hop recipe to do.

Thanks for your honesty. it was really helpful? ;)

Regardless, I'll sell the hell out of.

No, that's fantastic. It's honestly the best alternative for me. Instead of drinking 40 pints, I can just buy one. WIN WIN!

I guess I could also dry hop halfway through the keg to get some different hop character. THERE ARE TOO MANY SOLUTIONS FOR MY FIRST WORLD PROBLEMS!
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: ynotbrusum on February 07, 2018, 05:47:11 PM
I never was a big fan of them.  I appreciate them, I will judge them, but I don’t seek them out.  If there is an especially good one recommended to me, I will try one - and I really appreciate places that allow for small pours for situations like this!
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: 802Chris on February 08, 2018, 04:29:32 PM
Every once in awhile I will a get a craving for a nice classic west coast IPA. So of course I brewed one last weekend. I then got impatient and went out and bought a (fresh, wahoo!) 12 pack of Sierra Nevada torpedo and drank it all week... Now I'm burned out and don't want IPA anymore for a while.... dammit.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: BananaSlug on February 08, 2018, 07:50:57 PM
Every once in awhile I will a get a craving for a nice classic west coast IPA. So of course I brewed one last weekend. I then got impatient and went out and bought a (fresh, wahoo!) 12 pack of Sierra Nevada torpedo and drank it all week... Now I'm burned out and don't want IPA anymore for a while.... dammit.

Torpedo is actually one of the better ones IMO. Damn good considering its price.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: el_capitan on February 09, 2018, 02:26:40 AM
I'm drinking a very nice pils right now, and cold-crashing a IIPA.  ACTUALLY, it's not a pils.  It's a pilsner-ale brewed with WLP029 and homegrown Sterling hops.  So now all of the pilsner freaks can tell me the error of my ways.  But, it's clean and clear and delicious, and I really don't care if it's not the ultimate "IT" pilsner.

Honestly, I'm not posting much anymore because this board (and the homebrewing community in general, as gauged by this forum) is becoming a bit too polarized for me.  A few years ago, everybody was all crazy with the IPAs, and it was like a competition to brew the ultimate.  Now the needle has swung to the polar opposite of IPA and everyone is obsessed with brewing the lightest and cleanest beer possible. 

Whatever happened to moderation, exploration, and inclusiveness?  I can enjoy a well-brewed IPA as much as a pilsner.  I think it gets to be a pissing contest of who can throw down the most obscure knowledge, and it's alienating in a sense. 

We've all advanced as brewers, and the discussion has advanced quite a bit in terms of complexity, but we've lost a lot of the joy in brewing, it seems.  Jim had it right when he posted about going back to the heart of brewing.  I'm sick of hearing about pils and LODO and German brewing texts.  And I feel like I can brew whatever the heck I want regardless of what the trend is.  People are getting too cliquish and deep in their own rabbit-holes.

Have a great day, fellas, sorry for raining on your parade.  I guess I just hit my breaking point. 
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Big Monk on February 09, 2018, 02:49:19 AM
I'm drinking a very nice pils right now, and cold-crashing a IIPA.  ACTUALLY, it's not a pils.  It's a pilsner-ale brewed with WLP029 and homegrown Sterling hops.  So now all of the pilsner freaks can tell me the error of my ways.  But, it's clean and clear and delicious, and I really don't care if it's not the ultimate "IT" pilsner.

Honestly, I'm not posting much anymore because this board (and the homebrewing community in general, as gauged by this forum) is becoming a bit too polarized for me.  A few years ago, everybody was all crazy with the IPAs, and it was like a competition to brew the ultimate.  Now the needle has swung to the polar opposite of IPA and everyone is obsessed with brewing the lightest and cleanest beer possible. 

Whatever happened to moderation, exploration, and inclusiveness?  I can enjoy a well-brewed IPA as much as a pilsner.  I think it gets to be a pissing contest of who can throw down the most obscure knowledge, and it's alienating in a sense. 

We've all advanced as brewers, and the discussion has advanced quite a bit in terms of complexity, but we've lost a lot of the joy in brewing, it seems.  Jim had it right when he posted about going back to the heart of brewing.  I'm sick of hearing about pils and LODO and German brewing texts.  And I feel like I can brew whatever the heck I want regardless of what the trend is.  People are getting too cliquish and deep in their own rabbit-holes.

Have a great day, fellas, sorry for raining on your parade.  I guess I just hit my breaking point.

To be fair, we talk about Pale Ale, Trappist beers, Helles, Dunkel, Schwarz, Festbier, British Brewing texts, American brewing texts, Belgian brewing texts, process improvements, packaging methods, the importance of malt analysis, ingredient selection, equipment design, and our brewing software as well. And we share it all, for free. Just sayin’. 😉

This is of course wildly off topic. To the point that it’s likely to be detrimental. It’s a new day. The forum can move on or not. No use trudging up old stuff.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 09, 2018, 02:53:46 AM
When I first sought out this forum I was over-obsessing, down rabbit holes,  trying to find my way out by digging deeper.  Jim's topics did indeed help me get my perspective back. But what I've learned since then is that, if you can keep your head on your shoulders, SOME of what we find down those rabbit holes can help you actually get back to that "heart of brewing."  Some of it can just be applied to make your brewing go smoother, or solve one little annoying problem, SOME of it can turn you on to something entirely new that brings you the sense of discovery  you had when you first started out. You just have to keep both your perspective AND  an open mind. Remember what Mom said:  "Well, if all your friends jumped off a cliff...."

EDIT  That applies to styles and techniques equally .
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: el_capitan on February 09, 2018, 03:10:21 AM
I'm drinking a very nice pils right now, and cold-crashing a IIPA.  ACTUALLY, it's not a pils.  It's a pilsner-ale brewed with WLP029 and homegrown Sterling hops.  So now all of the pilsner freaks can tell me the error of my ways.  But, it's clean and clear and delicious, and I really don't care if it's not the ultimate "IT" pilsner.

Honestly, I'm not posting much anymore because this board (and the homebrewing community in general, as gauged by this forum) is becoming a bit too polarized for me.  A few years ago, everybody was all crazy with the IPAs, and it was like a competition to brew the ultimate.  Now the needle has swung to the polar opposite of IPA and everyone is obsessed with brewing the lightest and cleanest beer possible. 

Whatever happened to moderation, exploration, and inclusiveness?  I can enjoy a well-brewed IPA as much as a pilsner.  I think it gets to be a pissing contest of who can throw down the most obscure knowledge, and it's alienating in a sense. 

We've all advanced as brewers, and the discussion has advanced quite a bit in terms of complexity, but we've lost a lot of the joy in brewing, it seems.  Jim had it right when he posted about going back to the heart of brewing.  I'm sick of hearing about pils and LODO and German brewing texts.  And I feel like I can brew whatever the heck I want regardless of what the trend is.  People are getting too cliquish and deep in their own rabbit-holes.

Have a great day, fellas, sorry for raining on your parade.  I guess I just hit my breaking point.

To be fair, we talk about Pale Ale, Trappist beers, Helles, Dunkel, Schwarz, Festbier, British Brewing texts, American brewing texts, Belgian brewing texts, process improvements, packaging methods, the importance of malt analysis, ingredient selection, equipment design, and our brewing software as well. And we share it all, for free. Just sayin’. 😉

This is of course wildly off topic. To the point that it’s likely to be detrimental. It’s a new day. The forum can move on or not. No use trudging up old stuff.

You don't have to tell me about it.  I'm here almost every day.  I've brewed Helles, Dunkel, Schwarz, and Festbier.  I just kegged a Sumac Sour ale.  I appreciate homebrewing for the diversity it offers, and I think things have gotten too focused on certain styles, techniques, etc. because some brewers like yourself are the evangelizing, and it gets annoying.  I've brewed for 13 years now, and have been active on the forums all along.  I've seen many trends come and go, and all along have learned what I can and applied it to my own brewing as it fits.  I agree with a previous poster that it's crazy how every thread turns into a "Pilsner LODO derail".   

To be fair, I'm probably going to pick up some BTB and see what I think.  But quit beating me over the head with it.  It's a bit overkill. 
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Big Monk on February 09, 2018, 03:14:36 AM
I'm drinking a very nice pils right now, and cold-crashing a IIPA.  ACTUALLY, it's not a pils.  It's a pilsner-ale brewed with WLP029 and homegrown Sterling hops.  So now all of the pilsner freaks can tell me the error of my ways.  But, it's clean and clear and delicious, and I really don't care if it's not the ultimate "IT" pilsner.

Honestly, I'm not posting much anymore because this board (and the homebrewing community in general, as gauged by this forum) is becoming a bit too polarized for me.  A few years ago, everybody was all crazy with the IPAs, and it was like a competition to brew the ultimate.  Now the needle has swung to the polar opposite of IPA and everyone is obsessed with brewing the lightest and cleanest beer possible. 

Whatever happened to moderation, exploration, and inclusiveness?  I can enjoy a well-brewed IPA as much as a pilsner.  I think it gets to be a pissing contest of who can throw down the most obscure knowledge, and it's alienating in a sense. 

We've all advanced as brewers, and the discussion has advanced quite a bit in terms of complexity, but we've lost a lot of the joy in brewing, it seems.  Jim had it right when he posted about going back to the heart of brewing.  I'm sick of hearing about pils and LODO and German brewing texts.  And I feel like I can brew whatever the heck I want regardless of what the trend is.  People are getting too cliquish and deep in their own rabbit-holes.

Have a great day, fellas, sorry for raining on your parade.  I guess I just hit my breaking point.

To be fair, we talk about Pale Ale, Trappist beers, Helles, Dunkel, Schwarz, Festbier, British Brewing texts, American brewing texts, Belgian brewing texts, process improvements, packaging methods, the importance of malt analysis, ingredient selection, equipment design, and our brewing software as well. And we share it all, for free. Just sayin’. 😉

This is of course wildly off topic. To the point that it’s likely to be detrimental. It’s a new day. The forum can move on or not. No use trudging up old stuff.

You don't have to tell me about it.  I'm here almost every day.  I've brewed Helles, Dunkel, Schwarz, and Festbier.  I just kegged a Sumac Sour ale.  I appreciate homebrewing for the diversity it offers, and I think things have gotten too focused on certain styles, techniques, etc. because some brewers like yourself are the evangelizing, and it gets annoying.  I've brewed for 13 years now, and have been active on the forums all along.  I've seen many trends come and go, and all along have learned what I can and applied it to my own brewing as it fits.  I agree with a previous poster that it's crazy how every thread turns into a "Pilsner LODO derail".   

To be fair, I'm probably going to pick up some BTB and see what I think.  But quit beating me over the head with it.  It's a bit overkill.

You sound frustrated and it wasn’t my intent to antagonize you. The point is that it’s not a one trick pony thing. I don’t even brew lagers. Your post and the meaning within is noted. I’ve learned to only post on things where the information is useful in furthering a conversation.

On the topic of IPA, I’ve found that having a few commercial favorites, such as Ithaca Flower Power, Uinta Hop Nosh, Harpoon IPA, etc. gives me some staples to enjoy when I need to scratch that itch. I’ve never brewed the, myself.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 09, 2018, 03:25:14 AM
I'm drinking a very nice pils right now, and cold-crashing a IIPA.  ACTUALLY, it's not a pils.  It's a pilsner-ale brewed with WLP029 and homegrown Sterling hops.  So now all of the pilsner freaks can tell me the error of my ways.  But, it's clean and clear and delicious, and I really don't care if it's not the ultimate "IT" pilsner.

Honestly, I'm not posting much anymore because this board (and the homebrewing community in general, as gauged by this forum) is becoming a bit too polarized for me.  A few years ago, everybody was all crazy with the IPAs, and it was like a competition to brew the ultimate.  Now the needle has swung to the polar opposite of IPA and everyone is obsessed with brewing the lightest and cleanest beer possible. 

Whatever happened to moderation, exploration, and inclusiveness?  I can enjoy a well-brewed IPA as much as a pilsner.  I think it gets to be a pissing contest of who can throw down the most obscure knowledge, and it's alienating in a sense. 

We've all advanced as brewers, and the discussion has advanced quite a bit in terms of complexity, but we've lost a lot of the joy in brewing, it seems.  Jim had it right when he posted about going back to the heart of brewing.  I'm sick of hearing about pils and LODO and German brewing texts.  And I feel like I can brew whatever the heck I want regardless of what the trend is.  People are getting too cliquish and deep in their own rabbit-holes.

Have a great day, fellas, sorry for raining on your parade.  I guess I just hit my breaking point.

You can make a great beer/Pilsner with a clean yeast
 and Sterling hops. Two thumbs up.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: dannyjed on February 09, 2018, 04:30:43 AM
I have been brewing for over 10 years and the one style that I always go back to and brew the most is IPA. I’ve gone through phases of English, Scottish, Belgian, Sour, and German beers and I always find myself coming back to American IPA’s. It’s the one style that I never get sick of and I prefer the West Coast IPA. I’ve tried the commercial NEIPA’s and have even made some, but they seem to have hop harshness to me. I like a firm bitterness up front followed by hop/malt  flavor. Even though I brew IPA most often, I still like variety and need a break from hoppy beers.
 I think the frustration for me can come from balancing the science and art/creativity. I’m a science teacher, but the science part of brewing doesn’t interest me as much as the artistic side of creating recipes and playing with different styles, ingredients, and techniques. Science needs creativity in order to advance and creativity needs science to be grounded.
     I think some people are feeling more hesitant to post lately in fear that things will get derailed into the same debates over and over again. Sometimes you need a guy like Jim to remind us that it is still fun to be able to make our own beer at home and enjoy the rewards.


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: coolman26 on February 09, 2018, 05:05:54 AM
I have been brewing for over 10 years and the one style that I always go back to and brew the most is IPA. I’ve gone through phases of English, Scottish, Belgian, Sour, and German beers and I always find myself coming back to American IPA’s. It’s the one style that I never get sick of and I prefer the West Coast IPA. I’ve tried the commercial NEIPA’s and have even made some, but they seem to have hop harshness to me. I like a firm bitterness up front followed by hop/malt  flavor. Even though I brew IPA most often, I still like variety and need a break from hoppy beers.
 I think the frustration for me can come from balancing the science and art/creativity. I’m a science teacher, but the science part of brewing doesn’t interest me as much as the artistic side of creating recipes and playing with different styles, ingredients, and techniques. Science needs creativity in order to advance and creativity needs science to be grounded.
     I think some people are feeling more hesitant to post lately in fear that things will get derailed into the same debates over and over again. Sometimes you need a guy like Jim to remind us that it is still fun to be able to make our own beer at home and enjoy the rewards.


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I’ve tried to find a NEIPA that I really liked. Being in the Midwest, I do not have a lot to choose from. The ones that I have tried have not been very good. They have tasted oxidized. Maybe one day I’ll be out East and try one of the famous ones from there. I too like one that holds that bitterness.  Bitter and balance at the same time.  I  will say I make more hoppy styles. I do not buy many ipa beers. I’m sick of buying avg beer at a premium. I’ve been buying more Belgian beers lately.


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: dannyjed on February 09, 2018, 05:21:15 AM
It could be that I haven’t had a good NEIPA yet, but I’m really starting to think that it’s really not to my tastes. Let’s see if they stick around or start fading away like the Black IPA.


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: narvin on February 09, 2018, 04:18:29 PM
The cloudy/milkshake thing is overdone.  But I will say that I've been drinking more IPAs since they have started to 1) focus on freshness, 2) reduce the abv somewhat to reasonable levels of historical IPAs, and 3) move a little bit away from the "bitterness masochism challenge" that was a fad for a while.

In fact, I think my go to beers now are split between medium abv late hop IPAs and Pilsners  :)
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: bayareabrewer on February 09, 2018, 04:32:03 PM
I swear these "no IBU" fruit bomb "IPA's" are for people that would rather have a wine cooler but are too embarrassed to order one  :D  :D. But seriously, tons of residual sugar, huge body, no bitterness and fruitiness out the ying yang, that sounds like Bartles and James not an IPA.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: narvin on February 09, 2018, 04:45:55 PM
I swear these "no IBU" fruit bomb "IPA's" are for people that would rather have a wine cooler but are too embarrassed to order one  :D  :D. But seriously, tons of residual sugar, huge body, no bitterness and fruitiness out the ying yang, that sounds like Bartles and James not an IPA.

Any specific examples you're talking about?  Obviously they exist but I think many other IPAs have improved vs 10 years ago due to better packaging/freshness, more late hops, and fewer residual sugars/crystal malts.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: bayareabrewer on February 09, 2018, 05:26:46 PM
I swear these "no IBU" fruit bomb "IPA's" are for people that would rather have a wine cooler but are too embarrassed to order one  :D  :D. But seriously, tons of residual sugar, huge body, no bitterness and fruitiness out the ying yang, that sounds like Bartles and James not an IPA.

Any specific examples you're talking about?  Obviously they exist but I think many other IPAs have improved vs 10 years ago due to better packaging/freshness, more late hops, and fewer residual sugars/crystal malts.

these neipa that use super fruity hop varieties, super fruity, low attenuating yeast and high chloride water. It makes for a fruity and insipid drink for my tastes. They taste like wine coolers.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Big Monk on February 09, 2018, 05:31:31 PM
I swear these "no IBU" fruit bomb "IPA's" are for people that would rather have a wine cooler but are too embarrassed to order one  :D  :D. But seriously, tons of residual sugar, huge body, no bitterness and fruitiness out the ying yang, that sounds like Bartles and James not an IPA.

Any specific examples you're talking about?  Obviously they exist but I think many other IPAs have improved vs 10 years ago due to better packaging/freshness, more late hops, and fewer residual sugars/crystal malts.

these neipa that use super fruity hop varieties, super fruity, low attenuating yeast and high chloride water. It makes for a fruity and insipid drink for my tastes. They taste like wine coolers.

Any specific examples? I've had some from Hill Farmstead, Trillium, etc. that are obviously crafted very well and taste great. Obviously you get turds as outliers but the well made versions are worth seeking out.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: bayareabrewer on February 09, 2018, 05:40:00 PM
I swear these "no IBU" fruit bomb "IPA's" are for people that would rather have a wine cooler but are too embarrassed to order one  :D  :D. But seriously, tons of residual sugar, huge body, no bitterness and fruitiness out the ying yang, that sounds like Bartles and James not an IPA.

Any specific examples you're talking about?  Obviously they exist but I think many other IPAs have improved vs 10 years ago due to better packaging/freshness, more late hops, and fewer residual sugars/crystal malts.

these neipa that use super fruity hop varieties, super fruity, low attenuating yeast and high chloride water. It makes for a fruity and insipid drink for my tastes. They taste like wine coolers.

Any specific examples? I've had some from Hill Farmstead, Trillium, etc. that are obviously crafted very well and taste great. Obviously you get turds as outliers but the well made versions are worth seeking out.

I was up in Sonoma recently and went to two different highly regarded breweries that make the neipa style. Both tasted fruity, sweet and insipid. I also went to an award winning brewery on my way to Tahoe that makes the style and same thing, fruity, sweet and insipid. I just don't like the style, its imbalanced, sweet, fruity and not very drinkable. 
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Big Monk on February 09, 2018, 05:52:41 PM
I swear these "no IBU" fruit bomb "IPA's" are for people that would rather have a wine cooler but are too embarrassed to order one  :D  :D. But seriously, tons of residual sugar, huge body, no bitterness and fruitiness out the ying yang, that sounds like Bartles and James not an IPA.

Any specific examples you're talking about?  Obviously they exist but I think many other IPAs have improved vs 10 years ago due to better packaging/freshness, more late hops, and fewer residual sugars/crystal malts.

these neipa that use super fruity hop varieties, super fruity, low attenuating yeast and high chloride water. It makes for a fruity and insipid drink for my tastes. They taste like wine coolers.

Any specific examples? I've had some from Hill Farmstead, Trillium, etc. that are obviously crafted very well and taste great. Obviously you get turds as outliers but the well made versions are worth seeking out.

I was up in Sonoma recently and went to two different highly regarded breweries that make the neipa style. Both tasted fruity, sweet and insipid. I also went to an award winning brewery on my way to Tahoe that makes the style and same thing, fruity, sweet and insipid. I just don't like the style, its imbalanced, sweet, fruity and not very drinkable.

Availability of the actual Northeastern examples in other parts of the country presents sort of a conundrum: It forces people to drink less accomplished and well crafted versions of the style because they just can't get their hands on the most well made examples.

I'm not a huge fan of them to be honest, but the few authentic examples from Hill Farmstead, Trillium, Alchemist, etc. that i had a chance to try were all well crafted and pretty tasty.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: denny on February 09, 2018, 05:59:27 PM
I swear these "no IBU" fruit bomb "IPA's" are for people that would rather have a wine cooler but are too embarrassed to order one  :D  :D. But seriously, tons of residual sugar, huge body, no bitterness and fruitiness out the ying yang, that sounds like Bartles and James not an IPA.

Any specific examples you're talking about?  Obviously they exist but I think many other IPAs have improved vs 10 years ago due to better packaging/freshness, more late hops, and fewer residual sugars/crystal malts.

these neipa that use super fruity hop varieties, super fruity, low attenuating yeast and high chloride water. It makes for a fruity and insipid drink for my tastes. They taste like wine coolers.

Any specific examples? I've had some from Hill Farmstead, Trillium, etc. that are obviously crafted very well and taste great. Obviously you get turds as outliers but the well made versions are worth seeking out.

I tend to agree with bayareabrewer on this, and here are some of my examples....https://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/denny/oh-say-can-you-see-through-your-beer
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: narcout on February 09, 2018, 06:04:36 PM
I was up in Sonoma recently and went to two different highly regarded breweries that make the neipa style.   

Which ones?  I'm heading up there in a few months and wouldn't mind giving them a taste.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: bayareabrewer on February 09, 2018, 06:55:55 PM
I was up in Sonoma recently and went to two different highly regarded breweries that make the neipa style.   

Which ones?  I'm heading up there in a few months and wouldn't mind giving them a taste.
Henhouse brewing, and I think the other was called spotted goat or something like that. Both seem to be well regarded breweries, I just really don't like the taste of that style. I appreciate the art of making them, just not the end result, I need crispness in my IPA. If you are near auburn Moonraker brewing pretty much exclusively makes that style of beer, Knee Deep brewing in Auburn has a huge tap list of many different styles as well. Where are you in the bay area, I can give you some good suggestions
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: bluesman on February 09, 2018, 09:09:04 PM
I think we're witnessing an evolution of the style.  Not to say the style we've historically come to love and enjoy is evolving, but a new breed of IPA's is coming into fruit-ition (lol...no pun intended).  It's becoming hip.  There are so many breweries moving toward this new-found style, and the beer consumer seems to be embracing them.  It's hard for me to wrap my brain around this trend or fad or...., but it's definitely happening.  Love it or leave it....it's reality.

I think a few cans just exploded as I was typing this post.  ;D
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: denny on February 09, 2018, 09:11:05 PM
I think we're witnessing an evolution of the style.  Not to say the style we've historically come to love and enjoy is evolving, but a new breed of IPA's is coming into fruit-ition (lol...no pun intended).  It's becoming hip.  There are so many breweries moving toward this new-found style, and the beer consumer seems to be embracing them.  It's hard for me to wrap my brain around this trend or fad or...., but it's definitely happening.  Love it or leave it....it's reality.

I think a few cans just exploded as I was typing this post.  ;D

Out here, it's a passing fad already.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 09, 2018, 10:48:39 PM
I think we're witnessing an evolution of the style.  Not to say the style we've historically come to love and enjoy is evolving, but a new breed of IPA's is coming into fruit-ition (lol...no pun intended).  It's becoming hip.  There are so many breweries moving toward this new-found style, and the beer consumer seems to be embracing them.  It's hard for me to wrap my brain around this trend or fad or...., but it's definitely happening.  Love it or leave it....it's reality.

I think a few cans just exploded as I was typing this post.  ;D

Glad to see you checking in, Ron.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: denny on February 09, 2018, 11:08:21 PM
I think we're witnessing an evolution of the style.  Not to say the style we've historically come to love and enjoy is evolving, but a new breed of IPA's is coming into fruit-ition (lol...no pun intended).  It's becoming hip.  There are so many breweries moving toward this new-found style, and the beer consumer seems to be embracing them.  It's hard for me to wrap my brain around this trend or fad or...., but it's definitely happening.  Love it or leave it....it's reality.

I think a few cans just exploded as I was typing this post.  ;D

Glad to see you checking in, Ron.

Indeed!  I was in shock!
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: braufessor on February 10, 2018, 12:19:34 AM

I’ve tried to find a NEIPA that I really liked. Being in the Midwest, I do not have a lot to choose from. The ones that I have tried have not been very good.

Where in the midwest?  We have some good ones around here in NE Iowa/Minnesota.

I can definitely see where IPA is overdone...... and I really would love to find more good pilsners/lagers, bitters, but, I still find IPA's to be my go to beer for the most part.  Other than finding a really well-made pilsner...... I almost always go for something in the pale ale/IPA department. 

The only thing I really do not like when it comes to IPA's is that they have gotten pushed to higher and higher ABV.  I just don't want 7-8% beers when I go out drinking..... even when I am at home drinking.   4-5-6% is honestly my max for the most part.  I can't stand going into places and seeing every beer at 7-8% ABV.

I love classic pale ales, over hopped pale ales, session IPA's, classic IPA's like two-hearted or the many west coast versions for example, and I also love well made NE IPA's too.  There is zero sign of NE IPA's going away around here.  People love them.  I even see it at the home-brew level.  I have people over to my basement-bar on many occasions, and generally have 6 beers on tap.  My NE IPA is by far, not even close, what everyone goes for.  I probably brew 5 gallons of it every 2 weeks (or more) and I still can't keep it on tap.  Even BMC drinkers let me know it is the first hoppy beer they ever really liked.  For a lot of people, the absence of the traditional IPA bitterness is what appeals to them.  I get why some people don't go in for them - but, in the end, IPA's have really found ways to appeal to a wide range of people - and that is what it is all about. 
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: stpug on February 10, 2018, 02:23:28 AM
For those of you who love brewing pils as opposed to IPA, what liquid yeast do you recommend to use?  I've tried dry yeast with bad results so far.

Czech Budejovice is a great one for pils that I've used.  2124 is also great (as mentioned above) but takes a little extra time to fully settle.
Hey stpug, 34/70 is indeed powdery (I just came upstairs from adding gelatin finings to a batch) but that does make it attenuate well and clean up after itself.  I've never used the Budejovice.  How does it compare to the 34/70 on temperature tolerance, attenuation, etc?

Sorry for the late reply... I just saw the follow-up post from you.

White labs recommends 50-55F for fermentation, so that would be the safe route.  I personally fermented several lagers using this strain with my chamber set at 48F with probe taped to side of fermenter (I always kind of assume there's an extra degree inside [beer at 49F or so] since the probe is on the outside and isolated from the exothermic action).  As for attenuation, I generally find most lager yeast that are used in light lagers (i.e. lagers consisting of primarily base malts - highly attenuable) to attenuate to 79-82%, and this one fell into the 80% AA range for me as well.  Also, it cleared a little bit better than 2124, but not so great as to write home about.  Finally, it creates a fairly dry and crisp finish without losing much malt character or any hop qualities.  If you're looking for some residual sweetness in a lager then this strain is probably not the ideal choice, but if you want a crisp refreshing finish then it's a worthwhile strain to try out.

I bet this strain gets overlooked a fair amount because it has "Bud" in the name ;D
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 10, 2018, 02:31:03 AM
For those of you who love brewing pils as opposed to IPA, what liquid yeast do you recommend to use?  I've tried dry yeast with bad results so far.

Czech Budejovice is a great one for pils that I've used.  2124 is also great (as mentioned above) but takes a little extra time to fully settle.
Hey stpug, 34/70 is indeed powdery (I just came upstairs from adding gelatin finings to a batch) but that does make it attenuate well and clean up after itself.  I've never used the Budejovice.  How does it compare to the 34/70 on temperature tolerance, attenuation, etc?

Sorry for the late reply... I just saw the follow-up post from you.

White labs recommends 50-55F for fermentation, so that would be the safe route.  I personally fermented several lagers using this strain with my chamber set at 48F with probe taped to side of fermenter (I always kind of assume there's an extra degree inside [beer at 49F or so] since the probe is on the outside and isolated from the exothermic action).  As for attenuation, I generally find most lager yeast that are used in light lagers (i.e. lagers consisting of primarily base malts - highly attenuable) to attenuate to 79-82%, and this one fell into the 80% AA range for me as well.  Also, it cleared a little bit better than 2124, but not so great as to write home about.  Finally, it creates a fairly dry and crisp finish without losing much malt character or any hop qualities.  If you're looking for some residual sweetness in a lager then this strain is probably not the ideal choice, but if you want a crisp refreshing finish then it's a worthwhile strain to try out.

I bet this strain gets overlooked a fair amount because it has "Bud" in the name ;D

Thanks! Sounds like it acts more German than Bohemian, which I should expect having had the beer. I use 34/70 and repitch for a whole lot of generations, so I rarely change up yeasts.  This I might try next time I buy fresh yeast.  If only to be different.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 10, 2018, 03:06:21 AM
I think we're witnessing an evolution of the style.  Not to say the style we've historically come to love and enjoy is evolving, but a new breed of IPA's is coming into fruit-ition (lol...no pun intended).  It's becoming hip.  There are so many breweries moving toward this new-found style, and the beer consumer seems to be embracing them.  It's hard for me to wrap my brain around this trend or fad or...., but it's definitely happening.  Love it or leave it....it's reality.

I think a few cans just exploded as I was typing this post.  ;D

Out here, it's a passing fad already.

Either it's not a passing fad, or somebody really misjudged.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=31149.0
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 10, 2018, 02:57:52 PM
Hey Denny: All I drank yesterday was IPA after 4:PM and hung with the crew after a long week of brewing. I did drink some bourbon when I got home. But if I'm going to indulge in some after hours IPA I'm not going to be drinking anything but hoppy beers (or bourbon) the rest of the night. Which limits me greatly. There are so many great beers out there that resolve themselves on your pallet after consuming it is a shame that so many craft IPA drinkers never get to experience them because they think IPA is the end-all-be-all.

That's all I'm really saying. Also I didn't chew gun or eat any weird candy or fruits yesterday that would have screwed up my pallet.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: narvin on February 10, 2018, 02:58:48 PM
I swear these "no IBU" fruit bomb "IPA's" are for people that would rather have a wine cooler but are too embarrassed to order one  :D  :D. But seriously, tons of residual sugar, huge body, no bitterness and fruitiness out the ying yang, that sounds like Bartles and James not an IPA.

Any specific examples you're talking about?  Obviously they exist but I think many other IPAs have improved vs 10 years ago due to better packaging/freshness, more late hops, and fewer residual sugars/crystal malts.

these neipa that use super fruity hop varieties, super fruity, low attenuating yeast and high chloride water. It makes for a fruity and insipid drink for my tastes. They taste like wine coolers.

Any specific examples? I've had some from Hill Farmstead, Trillium, etc. that are obviously crafted very well and taste great. Obviously you get turds as outliers but the well made versions are worth seeking out.

Indeed, Trillium is one of my favorites.  Not insipid at all.  Crisip and bright, with some bitterness but the hop flavors are varied and extremely fresh.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: narvin on February 10, 2018, 03:04:17 PM
I'll also say that I had a two hearted recently and thought "Wow, this is malty."  So it a) either wasn't very fresh, or b) my tastes have moved towards less (or no) crystal malt in an IPA.  Either way, I don't see how a typical NEIPA would taste sweet, except for the ones that go for the extreme "no bitterness" end of the spectrum due to the balance.  But still, I'd think they finish at a lower gravity than the old school American IPAs like Two Hearted.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: denny on February 10, 2018, 04:29:40 PM
I think we're witnessing an evolution of the style.  Not to say the style we've historically come to love and enjoy is evolving, but a new breed of IPA's is coming into fruit-ition (lol...no pun intended).  It's becoming hip.  There are so many breweries moving toward this new-found style, and the beer consumer seems to be embracing them.  It's hard for me to wrap my brain around this trend or fad or...., but it's definitely happening.  Love it or leave it....it's reality.

I think a few cans just exploded as I was typing this post.  ;D

Out here, it's a passing fad already.

Either it's not a passing fad, or somebody really misjudged.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=31149.0

which is why I said "out here".  Breweries that used to make 3-5 of them now maybe have one or none.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: denny on February 10, 2018, 04:30:29 PM
Hey Denny: All I drank yesterday was IPA after 4:PM and hung with the crew after a long week of brewing. I did drink some bourbon when I got home. But if I'm going to indulge in some after hours IPA I'm not going to be drinking anything but hoppy beers (or bourbon) the rest of the night. Which limits me greatly. There are so many great beers out there that resolve themselves on your pallet after consuming it is a shame that so many craft IPA drinkers never get to experience them because they think IPA is the end-all-be-all.

That's all I'm really saying. Also I didn't chew gun or eat any weird candy or fruits yesterday that would have screwed up my pallet.

we all have our own tastes.  Drink what you like, when you like, and I'll do the same.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: klickitat jim on February 10, 2018, 04:31:24 PM
I think we're witnessing an evolution of the style.  Not to say the style we've historically come to love and enjoy is evolving, but a new breed of IPA's is coming into fruit-ition (lol...no pun intended).  It's becoming hip.  There are so many breweries moving toward this new-found style, and the beer consumer seems to be embracing them.  It's hard for me to wrap my brain around this trend or fad or...., but it's definitely happening.  Love it or leave it....it's reality.

I think a few cans just exploded as I was typing this post.  ;D

Out here, it's a passing fad already.

Either it's not a passing fad, or somebody really misjudged.

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=31149.0

which is why I said "out here".  Breweries that used to make 3-5 of them now maybe have one or none.
I've not seen one yet
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: narvin on February 10, 2018, 05:02:25 PM
Hey Denny: All I drank yesterday was IPA after 4:PM and hung with the crew after a long week of brewing. I did drink some bourbon when I got home. But if I'm going to indulge in some after hours IPA I'm not going to be drinking anything but hoppy beers (or bourbon) the rest of the night. Which limits me greatly. There are so many great beers out there that resolve themselves on your pallet after consuming it is a shame that so many craft IPA drinkers never get to experience them because they think IPA is the end-all-be-all.

That's all I'm really saying. Also I didn't chew gun or eat any weird candy or fruits yesterday that would have screwed up my pallet.

we all have our own tastes.  Drink what you like, when you like, and I'll do the same.

Don't tell me what to do!   ;)
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 10, 2018, 05:59:58 PM
I'll also say that I had a two hearted recently and thought "Wow, this is malty."  So it a) either wasn't very fresh, or b) my tastes have moved towards less (or no) crystal malt in an IPA.  Either way, I don't see how a typical NEIPA would taste sweet, except for the ones that go for the extreme "no bitterness" end of the spectrum due to the balance.  But still, I'd think they finish at a lower gravity than the old school American IPAs like Two Hearted.
I get fresh Two Hearted often. It is more balanced than a West Coast IPA, but the bitterness is there, and the aromatics are really nice. NEIPA is all aroma and flavor, not much in the finish, I don’t like the mouthfeel or the astringency that many have.

I have never had a Trillium or Treehouse. The true NEIPA may be out there.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: denny on February 10, 2018, 06:09:06 PM
I'll also say that I had a two hearted recently and thought "Wow, this is malty."  So it a) either wasn't very fresh, or b) my tastes have moved towards less (or no) crystal malt in an IPA.  Either way, I don't see how a typical NEIPA would taste sweet, except for the ones that go for the extreme "no bitterness" end of the spectrum due to the balance.  But still, I'd think they finish at a lower gravity than the old school American IPAs like Two Hearted.

A friend sent me a Two Heated maybe 15+ years ago.  At that time, I thought "what's all the hype about?".  Just didn't seem all that hoppy.  I had the same reaction to Hop Devil (as did my wife) and Hop Slam.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: bluesman on February 10, 2018, 08:18:34 PM
There's a lot of great IPA's out there, and the best ones are fresh out of the tap. 

There are so many milkshake IPA's in the Mid-Atlantic.  Some of these breweries are all of the rave.  I won't mention any brewery names, but there is an amazing amount of attraction to these haze bombs.  Just look on Untappd and you're head will spin.  I've had a few that were decent, but I'm thinking that this will all just pass, and they'll all come back around. Dunno... :-\

I love a good fruit smoothie, but a beer smoothie....well I'm still on the fence with that.  ::)

As Denny said, drink what you like...when you like, and as often as you like.  I certainly won't hold anything against you.  ;)

Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 10, 2018, 08:27:43 PM
There's a lot of great IPA's out there, and the best ones are fresh out of the tap. 

There are so many milkshake IPA's in the Mid-Atlantic.  Some of these breweries are all of the rave.  I won't mention any brewery names, but there is an amazing amount of attraction to these haze bombs.  Just look on Untappd and you're head will spin.  I've had a few that were decent, but I'm thinking that this will all just pass, and they'll all come back around. Dunno... :-\

I love a good fruit smoothie, but a beer smoothie....well I'm still on the fence with that.  ::)

As Denny said, drink what you like...when you like, and as often as you like.  I certainly won't hold anything against you.  ;)

Who is this guy???
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: bluesman on February 10, 2018, 08:42:07 PM
There's a lot of great IPA's out there, and the best ones are fresh out of the tap. 

There are so many milkshake IPA's in the Mid-Atlantic.  Some of these breweries are all of the rave.  I won't mention any brewery names, but there is an amazing amount of attraction to these haze bombs.  Just look on Untappd and you're head will spin.  I've had a few that were decent, but I'm thinking that this will all just pass, and they'll all come back around. Dunno... :-\

I love a good fruit smoothie, but a beer smoothie....well I'm still on the fence with that.  ::)

As Denny said, drink what you like...when you like, and as often as you like.  I certainly won't hold anything against you.  ;)

Who is this guy???

Yours truly baby!!!  ;)
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: mabrungard on February 10, 2018, 08:54:43 PM
Ron, you crack me up. By the way, your comment on freshness is very salient in IPA. I was introducing a pair of brewers at HomebrewCon last year that were speaking on oxidation and I also judged IPAs in the final round of the NHC. They asked me to look for signs of oxidation in the beers I judged (I saw them the night before the NHC judging).

Since they alerted me to this oxidation issue, I paid special attention to it and asked all the judges at the tables to look for it too. It was not a surprise when the winning IPAs displayed virtually no oxidation and their hop character and intensity was prominent. Plenty of the other IPAs were dull and lifeless and I'm sure that they hadn't made it to the second round by tasting like that. It seemed pretty apparent to me that the IPAs that won had been recently rebrewed and the other beers had not.

This was just a sign post to me that said that IPAs HAVE to be very fresh to be truly magnificent.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 10, 2018, 09:08:23 PM

This was just a sign post to me that said that IPAs HAVE to be very fresh to be truly magnificent.

Absolutely! And those hazy IPAs have the worst shelf life.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 10, 2018, 11:07:59 PM
I'll also say that I had a two hearted recently and thought "Wow, this is malty."  So it a) either wasn't very fresh, or b) my tastes have moved towards less (or no) crystal malt in an IPA.  Either way, I don't see how a typical NEIPA would taste sweet, except for the ones that go for the extreme "no bitterness" end of the spectrum due to the balance.  But still, I'd think they finish at a lower gravity than the old school American IPAs like Two Hearted.

A friend sent me a Two Heated maybe 15+ years ago.  At that time, I thought "what's all the hype about?".  Just didn't seem all that hoppy.  I had the same reaction to Hop Devil (as did my wife) and Hop Slam.

Agreed there are hoppier IPAs than Two Hearted. Hopslam always seems to have a lot of variation, sometimes it is not hoppy, other times it has hops in abundance.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 10, 2018, 11:13:05 PM
At one point in time 2-hearted came in to our market so cheap we could have bought kegs of it, transferred it to our kegs and sold it, and it would have been cheaper than making our IPA. Maybe there's a little hyperbole going on in this sentiment .... but not much.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: klickitat jim on February 11, 2018, 01:51:36 AM
At one point in time 2-hearted came in to our market so cheap we could have bought kegs of it, transferred it to our kegs and sold it, and it would have been cheaper than making our IPA. Maybe there's a little hyperbole going on in this sentiment .... but not much.
Could have? Come on... you did it, come on...
Title: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on February 11, 2018, 02:44:54 AM
At one point in time 2-hearted came in to our market so cheap we could have bought kegs of it, transferred it to our kegs and sold it, and it would have been cheaper than making our IPA. Maybe there's a little hyperbole going on in this sentiment .... but not much.
Now that is a good idea how to make more beer
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: klickitat jim on February 11, 2018, 02:50:40 AM


At one point in time 2-hearted came in to our market so cheap we could have bought kegs of it, transferred it to our kegs and sold it, and it would have been cheaper than making our IPA. Maybe there's a little hyperbole going on in this sentiment .... but not much.
Now that is a good idea how to make more beer

I'll pay $5 for a photo of Leos dumping 2 hearted kegs into a boil kettle
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Visor on February 11, 2018, 04:59:44 PM
   I still love IPA's, not quite as much as a few years ago.
   I have, unfortunately stopped brewing them  until I can get the flavor loss issue figured out. The last IPA I brewed was undoubtedly the best I'd ever made, that is, it was the tastiest ever when I bottled it, and even 4 days after bottling before it really a bottle conditioned. A week later when it finally was more or less ready to drink, it already had lost 80% - 90% of it's hop flavor and aroma. Massive bummer, $15 or $20 of late/dry hops totally wasted, and worse yet 2 1/2 cases of nectar of the gods turned into justanotheripa. To add insult to injury, 2 months later, it all succumbed to the virus I've been fighting and in a matter of 1 or 2 days went from normally carbonated ale to mega-gushers. I guess I have a couple problems to figure out.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Ale Farmer on February 12, 2018, 02:20:00 AM
It's not just IPAs that are turning cloudy: I had a cloudy APA yesterday from a new brewery here in Western Massachusetts that offered 3 or 4 kinds of NEIPAs. It was my first time trying an NEIPA--didn't like how citrusy and sweet it was, but the cloudy APA was much better: not sweet, with a Chinook-like bite. Makes me think it isn't so much the appearance as the particular hop choices that are key. 
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: BananaSlug on February 12, 2018, 07:19:45 PM
I know I'm just a FNG around here, and not even a brewer yet, so take it for what it's worth. Some of the early microbrew IPA's were, and still are, quite good, even great, beers and they became very popular and rightfully so. But the damn bandwagon effect has had everyone and their brother making IPA's, some breweries even have multiple offerings. To my palate, many of them are just mediocre to average beers that are bittered down and hopped up in an attempt to disguise the lack of quality. And don't get me started on the specialty IPA's. I really have no desire to sample your seasonal Mango Kelp Dog Doo Triple double "IPA", LOL.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Phil_M on February 12, 2018, 07:42:17 PM
I know I'm just a FNG around here, and not even a brewer yet, so take it for what it's worth. Some of the early microbrew IPA's were, and still are, quite good, even great, beers and they became very popular and rightfully so. But the damn bandwagon effect has had everyone and their brother making IPA's, some breweries even have multiple offerings. To my palate, many of them are just mediocre to average beers that are bittered down and hopped up in an attempt to disguise the lack of quality. And don't get me started on the specialty IPA's. I really have no desire to sample your seasonal Mango Kelp Dog Doo Triple double "IPA", LOL.

^^^ Well said.

The local brewpub's "default" IPA is excellent, still a go-to even though it's not my favorite style. It's always available, and sometimes they'll brew other IPAs and serve them alongside. However, when 4 out of the 8 beers they offer are IPAs that are (to me) less good than their default...and the rest are rather poorly made lagers...well I don't go there that often anymore.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: chumley on February 12, 2018, 09:00:07 PM
I like IPAs a lot, and order them frequently, but I really dislike the ones with the dank flavor.  That said...

In 1987 I had my first Pilsner Urquell, and it instantly became my favorite beer.  31 years later, it still is.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Wort-H.O.G. on February 19, 2018, 02:24:09 AM
Welcome to the world. Today’s fad is yesterday’s old news.....today’s old news is yesterday’s fad.


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: charlie on February 19, 2018, 03:21:35 AM
I recommend that you pace yourself. Start out with a plain vanilla APA, then progress to a slightly more aggressive style and so on. Finish the night with a nice hoppy DIPA.

That's what I do. Keep it interesting!

Charlie
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: majorvices on February 19, 2018, 04:56:24 PM
LOL I didn't drink anything but IPA all weekend. But it does affect my taste for other beers. We have a SMASH Amarillo IPA right now that is very delicious.

I recommend that you pace yourself. Start out with a plain vanilla APA, then progress to a slightly more aggressive style and so on. Finish the night with a nice hoppy DIPA.

That's what I do. Keep it interesting!

Charlie

lol I do know how to drink beer. But thanks for the tip. ;)
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: santoch on February 19, 2018, 05:12:10 PM
You're trying to convince the cask ale diehard to filter? Heresy!  :P
My bad! Cask ale has its own exemption from filtration.  But look how hard the brewers at the turn of the 20th c. worked to develop rapidly clearing yeasts and better finings.  And I can tell you, no matter how much beer is left in cask, as soon as the slightest turbidity appears, good British pub patrons will raise the alarm, and a publican worth his salt will change casks.  Crystal clear bitter is its own special joy.  EDIT  To your point Phil, at the turn of the century, British consumers would not accept running beers unless they were as brilliant as the aged stock beers they were replacing! So yeah, uneducated consumers are part of the problem

I'll say it - Cask ale is overrated, too.  Most are grassy and astringent as hell.  The increasing oxidation and increasing flatness does nothing for me.  Pass.

Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 19, 2018, 05:24:41 PM
I recommend that you pace yourself. Start out with a plain vanilla APA....

Charlie
Holy crap Charlie, "vanilla APA..."  If that gets out out of context you will be held personally responsible for the coming fad of "Pastry Pales."  : ;)
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 20, 2018, 01:17:07 AM
You're trying to convince the cask ale diehard to filter? Heresy!  :P
My bad! Cask ale has its own exemption from filtration.  But look how hard the brewers at the turn of the 20th c. worked to develop rapidly clearing yeasts and better finings.  And I can tell you, no matter how much beer is left in cask, as soon as the slightest turbidity appears, good British pub patrons will raise the alarm, and a publican worth his salt will change casks.  Crystal clear bitter is its own special joy.  EDIT  To your point Phil, at the turn of the century, British consumers would not accept running beers unless they were as brilliant as the aged stock beers they were replacing! So yeah, uneducated consumers are part of the problem

I'll say it - Cask ale is overrated, too.  Most are grassy and astringent as hell.  The increasing oxidation and increasing flatness does nothing for me.  Pass.

In the UK I have had beers you speak of. I have also have had cask ales that were sublime, and I would sink many Imperial Pints in a sitting. Dreaming of a Timothy Taylor Landlord at peak condition now.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: BrewBama on February 20, 2018, 01:26:33 AM
I recently brewed my attempt at Innkeeper. I had a cpl mis-steps so the beer was not my best but I will give another try at a better representative soon.


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Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: charlie on February 20, 2018, 01:56:43 AM
I recommend that you pace yourself. Start out with a plain vanilla APA....

Charlie
Holy crap Charlie, "vanilla APA..."  If that gets out out of context you will be held personally responsible for the coming fad of "Pastry Pales."  : ;)

Like. lol
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: santoch on February 20, 2018, 03:38:37 AM
I'll pile on and agree that I'm pretty tired of IPA too.  I rarely order IPA any more. 
If I do, it's in the sampler.  Otherwise, I go for the roasty beers, lagers, sours,
and non-over-the-top-hopped ales. There's more to life than lupulin.
I don't brew very often any more, and when I do, its generally not an IPA. Ciders,
Pale Ales, lighter stuff is the norm for me now.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: klickitat jim on February 23, 2018, 12:22:15 AM
Found a Knee-Pa finally. Wasn't horible. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180223/faa15d6bb9f47e2a855115d02089fe4c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180223/ce92f6e49a844834d958e010154e5848.jpg)
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 23, 2018, 12:28:52 AM
I see Brew Dog has a Knee-Pa.  Since their US brewery is only 2 hours away from me, it stands a chance of being fresh, which I gather is crucial. I plan to pick some up and give it a try, so I can say I did.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: klickitat jim on February 23, 2018, 12:36:06 AM
It was really juicy!
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 23, 2018, 12:43:28 AM
At the market now.  Brew Dog Hazy Jane.  Canned 1/29.  Gonna try, report later.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on February 23, 2018, 03:36:40 AM
BrewDog Hazy Jane:   Completely opaque:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q0MJuY0Y3tEeCk_phBwN3MQNJppStEVb/view?usp=drivesdk

Thick mouthfeel -- I mean it feels like a thin slurry of flour with light carbonation. Smells like an IPA.  Tastes just like pineapple juice.  There is some perceptible bitterness, I don't know how much is true to style.  This seems just enough to counter the otherwise potentially cloying palate.  Never had anything like this, may never buy it again, but I'm going to enjoy the sixer.  (Not like the Sam '76 I dumped. Different thread.)  But more than one at a sitting would be difficult.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: russell on February 25, 2018, 02:51:28 AM
 not an IPA drinker here.
We as home brewers brew because we can make what we like. Me.. i always have a beer like a Irish ale, red rye, or northern English ale on one of my kegs and a nice light beer like a Blond or Golden ale or Philsner on the other. I just don't get some of those IPAs although i have has some that are nice but i wouldn't want a whole keg of it.
  I just like to change it up. there are too many people that all they drink are IPAs which is fine but why not drink something else once in a while there are so many great beer to drink.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Phil_M on February 27, 2018, 12:55:24 PM
BrewDog Hazy Jane:   Completely opaque:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q0MJuY0Y3tEeCk_phBwN3MQNJppStEVb/view?usp=drivesdk

Thick mouthfeel -- I mean it feels like a thin slurry of flour with light carbonation. Smells like an IPA.  Tastes just like pineapple juice.  There is some perceptible bitterness, I don't know how much is true to style.  This seems just enough to counter the otherwise potentially cloying palate.  Never had anything like this, may never buy it again, but I'm going to enjoy the sixer.  (Not like the Sam '76 I dumped. Different thread.)  But more than one at a sitting would be difficult.

The best descriptor for a "good" NEIPA for me is "mimosa". Not my favorite beer, but I'll grudgingly admit it's not bad with a nice full breakfast.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: Robert on March 24, 2018, 11:26:06 PM
Chaka say "Knee-pa.... knee-pa, juicy!"(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180205/d0c3a70c059c7f0e2d82ef5ce44d193b.jpg)
So I see the BA has now added not one, not two, but THREE categories of "Juicy, hazy" IPA to their 2018 style guidelines.  Just when I was beginning to think this fad had peaked.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: klickitat jim on March 24, 2018, 11:37:34 PM
Chaka say "Knee-pa.... knee-pa, juicy!"(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180205/d0c3a70c059c7f0e2d82ef5ce44d193b.jpg)
So I see the BA has now added not one, not two, but THREE categories of "Juicy, hazy" IPA to their 2018 style guidelines.  Just when I was beginning to think this fad had peaked.
Only 3? I guess Black, White, Belgian, Lager, and Sour Knee-pa hasn't taken off yet.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: MagicRat on April 17, 2018, 04:15:29 PM
To me the IPA is just another style.  I like some, others not so much.  Never really cared for those at the extreme end of the bitterness spectrum.  There are a few that I go back to again and again like Lagunitas (standard and Lil Sumpin' Sumpin'), Two-Hearted, Cigar City Jai Alai.
Out of 28 batches, I've brewed five IPAs and a IIPA.  My one attempt at a NEIPA-ish beer was fantastic, among my top 2 or 3 batches and will definitely be in regular rotation.
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: yso191 on April 17, 2018, 06:29:00 PM
I brew IPAs more than any other style.  I have never brewed a hazy IPA, and likely won’t.  It just seems fadish to me, without actually contributing anything unique or special other than turbidity.  Additionally, the few I have tried have made me extremely gassy.  So my wife won’t let me brew one either!
Title: Re: Why I'm not a big fan of IPA any longer
Post by: MagicRat on April 17, 2018, 07:11:17 PM
I brew IPAs more than any other style.  I have never brewed a hazy IPA, and likely won’t.  It just seems fadish to me, without actually contributing anything unique or special other than turbidity.  Additionally, the few I have tried have made me extremely gassy.  So my wife won’t let me brew one either!

I didn’t do anything to intentionally create haze.  I understand some commercial and homebrewers do so, which seems kind of silly.  I just didn’t use any whirlfloc or gelatin to clarify and just went with whatever haze occurred naturally.


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