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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: dbeechum on August 07, 2010, 01:43:36 pm

Title: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: dbeechum on August 07, 2010, 01:43:36 pm
Ok, so I alluded to the fact that I'm entering into classic American indentured servitude in the next couple of months (if everything goes well)

So, here's an exercise in creativity and idea generation - what would be a good project beer to brew now that would be drinkable - once per year - until that last damn check gets mailed in.

What would you do? A supreme barleywine? A mead? A Braggot?
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: babalu87 on August 07, 2010, 02:20:26 pm
What would you do? A supreme barleywine? A mead? A Braggot?

Yes  ;D

Knock down a Lambic or three too  :P

Congrats on the house Drew, it'll be like new found freedom
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: The Professor on August 07, 2010, 02:23:00 pm
Congratulations!

I'd have a hard time choosing between a hefty and hearty Barleywine/Burton ale or a good old Sack Mead.  Both are prime candidates for this undertaking.  I have long aged both of these categories (never 30 years, but I have meads that made it passed 20) so I can unhesitatingly vouch for the fact that you'll be mighty glad then that you're doing it now.

So if it were me, I'd do a batch of each.  Seriously.

You'll have one hell of a tasty celebration stash...  the hard part will, of course,  be keeping your mits off of it until it's time for that document burning bonfire. :'(
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: dhacker on August 07, 2010, 02:34:00 pm
Any of the aforementioned . . But me, I'd do the Apple Butter Cyser.

Sheesh . . I'd just be glad to be around in 30 years. One thing's for sure . . If I am, it' s a given, I'll be taking my meat through a straw . . .
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: gordonstrong on August 08, 2010, 11:09:49 am
Well, Thomas Hardy's Ale is supposed to be good for 25 years, so you could make a beer like that.

According to a Real Ale Almanac from 1995 when they were still making the good stuff:
1125 of nothing but Pipkin malt, 75 IBUs, Challenger, Golding and Northdown whole hops, dry-hopped with Styrian Goldings. I think they used a long boil, 3 hours-ish, for color development. I don't know if you can get the original yeast strain, but I'd start it with Fuller's yeast and then pitch the Bass yeast a week later for better attenuation. Then I'd pitch 2206 for conditioning and storage. From what I read, they triple-pitched and used lager yeast last.

You could also try a Courage Russian Imperial Stout, which holds up a long time (I still have one from 1994, I think).  From the same book, OG 1102, 10% ABv, 59.8% pale, 21.4% amber, 2.8% black, 16% sugar, some caramel for color. 50 IBUs from Target.

I'd certainly make a mead. Heather honey needs a lot of age, but I'm always partial to Tupelo.  24 lbs (2 gal) in a 5 gal batch. VL3C yeast. Staggered nutrient additions.


If you refinance will you drink all the remaining bottles at once?
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: denny on August 08, 2010, 11:13:23 am
Hey, if you make double payments, you only need a 15 year beer!
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: tschmidlin on August 08, 2010, 11:15:18 am
Even just one extra payment per year would cut it down to about 23 years, so there's that.

I agree with The Professor - why limit yourself to one?  Make a few different things, they're more likely to last 30 years that way :)

Oh, and have good place to lose them - I recommend a crawl space that's kind of a pain to get into. It helps me keep my hands (lips) off of stuff I want to store.
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: dbeechum on August 08, 2010, 11:38:19 am
I'd certainly make a mead. Heather honey needs a lot of age, but I'm always partial to Tupelo.  24 lbs (2 gal) in a 5 gal batch. VL3C yeast. Staggered nutrient additions.

Yeah, I love Tupelo meads, but ouch 24 lbs? I usually use 18 as my max line.
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: dean on August 08, 2010, 11:44:06 am
Congrats Drew.   :)  Btw, I saw you and the Maltose Falcon's on the History Channel last night... I grinned when I saw a woman wince after tasting someone's brew.   :D
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: gordonstrong on August 08, 2010, 11:56:30 am
Quote
Yeah, I love Tupelo meads, but ouch 24 lbs? I usually use 18 as my max line.

Man up.  Go big or go home.  You said you wanted it to go the distance.  I didn't say it was cheap; I said it was good.

We also haven't talked about how much you might need to back-sweeten it... Save a few pounds for that; more if you use fruit or something acidic.

If you like tupelo, try it in a cyser or melomel with darker fruits (cherries, plums, black currants, blackberries). Spice the tupelo with vanilla and cinnamon, which also would work with the cyser.

There's five mead ideas, all using tupelo.  Better buy a 5 gallon pail.  Better yet, two.
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: jeffy on August 08, 2010, 02:24:06 pm
Hmmm.... My mortagage will be paid up in 2012, which is something I thought only our parents could do.  I wonder if I have any homebrews from 1990?  At the time I don't think I was planning this far ahead, so it'll probably be a nasty kit beer with a rusty cap, but I bet I can find a bottle.  Whether I can drink it or not is another question....
If I had been thinking this far ahead, I'd probably have brewed that Thomas Hardy ale.  One of the best beers I ever drank was a 20 year old Thomas Hardy.
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: dbeechum on August 08, 2010, 02:59:33 pm
There's five mead ideas, all using tupelo.  Better buy a 5 gallon pail.  Better yet, two.

I would, but my usual supplier http://www.floridatupelohoney.com had a crap harvest this year and isn't selling 60 lbs pails until he knows how it will hold up. I still have about 30 lbs remaining from last years 2 pail order. (Last year's was not as good as three years ago when I arranged a ~600 lb order for the club)

My fun experiment was to make a Tupelo Weizen Braggot. Basically made a strong American Wheat Ale and hit it with Tupelo to bump the gravity up (about 1/2 the points from the honey) and let the honey provide the spicy weizen characters you'd expect. Damn good and super drinkable.

ETA: I really like the idea of something hardyesque. Maybe split it down and do some bottles for older aging that going onto oak.
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: gordonstrong on August 08, 2010, 03:02:52 pm
Ack. I didn't know they weren't selling pails. That's where I got mine last year. I have other secret sources, but not for that quantity.

I think you can try www.honeylocator.com to find other suppliers. Look in Georgia and Florida for Tupelo.
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: dbeechum on August 08, 2010, 03:08:31 pm
Yeah, Mr. Smiley and I exchanged a few emails about it. When I went trolling through the internet enabled suppliers on honeylocator they all seemed to be out as well, so.. boo!

Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: The Professor on August 08, 2010, 04:23:47 pm
Yeah, I love Tupelo meads, but ouch 24 lbs? I usually use 18 as my max line.

18 lbs of Tupelo would make a great 'keeper' mead.
And Drew, if you've never used Tokaji (aka Tokay) yeast, get your hands on some and use it for this project.
Trust me on this...it will be special.
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: rabid_dingo on August 08, 2010, 04:54:00 pm
Wow, I am in the middle of renegotiating my mine. It will probably reset the timer to 30 years so
that is a great idea. I wish I had though far enough ahead to do the same. Kinda gives me the
insentive to buy a whiskey barrel from Downslope Distilling in Denver. They are selling 5 gallon
oak barrels that by the time you get it it has had their whiskey in it for 3 months...
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: tschmidlin on August 09, 2010, 12:46:07 am
And Drew, if you've never used Tokaji (aka Tokay) yeast, get your hands on some and use it for this project.
Trust me on this...it will be special.

Where can we get some of that?  Any ideas?
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: tubercle on August 09, 2010, 06:40:03 am
I wonder if I have any homebrews from 1990? 

 1990?

 I don't even have anything left from June. 8)
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: babalu87 on August 09, 2010, 07:52:31 am
And Drew, if you've never used Tokaji (aka Tokay) yeast, get your hands on some and use it for this project.
Trust me on this...it will be special.

Where can we get some of that?  Any ideas?

Wondering if this could be used as a "substitute"
http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=46
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: tschmidlin on August 09, 2010, 11:21:50 am
And Drew, if you've never used Tokaji (aka Tokay) yeast, get your hands on some and use it for this project.
Trust me on this...it will be special.

Where can we get some of that?  Any ideas?

Wondering if this could be used as a "substitute"
http://www.wyeastlab.com/rw_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=46

Yeah, I guess you could, but I'd rather get the real yeast.  I read that to mean if you want to make a Tokay style wine, they recommend the Chablis yeast.  To me, that's not quite the same as if you want to use Tokay yeast, use the Chablis yeast instead.  I'd really like to get my hands on the real deal.
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: The Professor on August 09, 2010, 11:51:52 am
And Drew, if you've never used Tokaji (aka Tokay) yeast, get your hands on some and use it for this project.
Trust me on this...it will be special.

Where can we get some of that?  Any ideas?

I'm  still using the descendents of  my first purchase of Vierka Tokaji yeast many years ago... I've tried to get a few fresh packets of Vierka (they served up the yeasts on dried grape skins)  but no one seems to carry it anymore (perhaps they've gone out of business).

There is however an outfit in Belgium that sells a dried Tokaji strain, and they do ship overseas...
                                                                           www.brouwland.com

cheers!
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: tschmidlin on August 09, 2010, 12:00:50 pm
I'm  still using the descendents of  my first purchase of Vierka Tokaji yeast many years ago... I've tried to get a few fresh packets of Vierka (they served up the yeasts on dried grape skins)  but no one seems to carry it anymore (perhaps they've gone out of business).

There is however an outfit in Belgium that sells a dried Tokaji strain, and they do ship overseas...
                                                                           www.brouwland.com

cheers!

Yeah, for one sachet plus shipping it will be almost $40.  I'm not sure I want it that badly - 25 euros for shipping on a single pack of yeast?  WTF?  I'm going to try to find a US source, then I'll bank it so I can pull it out whenever I want.
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: The Professor on August 09, 2010, 04:26:19 pm

Yeah, for one sachet plus shipping it will be almost $40.  I'm not sure I want it that badly - 25 euros for shipping on a single pack of yeast?  WTF?  I'm going to try to find a US source, then I'll bank it so I can pull it out whenever I want.

wow...WTF indeed.  I don't know what changed, but  I sure as hell didn't get that high a quote when I checked into it last year...nowhere near that high.

There must be a domestic source somehwhere.  BEVERAGE PEOPLE used to carry the Vierka brand, but don't seem to any longer.

But you definitely have the right idea...once you find a source you only really need to buy it once.
It would by nice if Wyeast or White could carry this strain.  It shouldn't be that difficult for them to source it, and I think it would be very popular once people try it. 

I think a decent approximation though might be the Chablis strain combined with Sherry Flor, since Tokaji has characteristics at least somewhat evoke both of these.
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: tschmidlin on August 09, 2010, 04:53:48 pm

But you definitely have the right idea...once you find a source you only really need to buy it once.
It would by nice if Wyeast or White could carry this strain.  It shouldn't be that difficult for them to source it, and I think it would be very popular once people try it. 

I found out my LHBS carries some of the vierka yeasts, so I've asked if they can get me the Tokay.  But I also read that the importer isn't bringing that one in. I'll see what they say.

I also sent an email to Greg Doss at Wyeast - he told me in the past that they have a LOT of yeasts that they don't release just because it's not economically feasible to keep that many different strains fresh on the shelves.  If they have it banked, maybe I can get a bit from him.  I'll let you know what he says, if they have it and he's up for it I'll be down in his area in 2 weeks and can get it from him then.  If they don't have it I'll bet they would if enough people were clamoring for it.  It's hard to get the momentum though, when there aren't that many people who have tried it.
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: tschmidlin on August 09, 2010, 05:18:41 pm
I've found a couple of UK sources for Ritchies Tokay yeast.  The price is much more reasonable, only $9 including shipping from the one that will ship to the US.

http://www.arkwrightshomebrew.com/product_info.php/products_id/1096

I haven't ordered yet because I want to see what Doss says, and I'm concerned about the heat the yeast would see in the mail this time of year.  But I might order some from then in a couple of months if I can't get it from Wyeast.
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: tschmidlin on August 09, 2010, 05:21:49 pm
I'm going to start a new thread under yeast and fermentation, since this has wandered off topic and someone ignoring this thread might know of a source.

Here it is:
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=3180 (http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=3180)

<edited to include link to new topic>
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: sienabrewer on August 10, 2010, 01:48:44 pm
I'll add that, regardless of what you decide to brew, you might want to think about using a wax seal in addition to crown caps.  Unless of course you're going with the cork.
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: The Professor on August 10, 2010, 01:59:54 pm
I'll add that, regardless of what you decide to brew, you might want to think about using a wax seal in addition to crown caps.  Unless of course you're going with the cork.

Either way...THAT is a great idea.   Especially for those bottles that actually manage to go the distance.   ;D
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on August 10, 2010, 02:24:45 pm
Most of us from Indiana (and the greater Midwest) would suggest...

Dark Lord clone!

I would go big with it - age half on oak and incorporate bourbon at bottling, age half on vanilla beans.

Or just do two whole batches...
Title: Re: A 30 Year Beer
Post by: marty on August 11, 2010, 12:50:33 pm
Yeah, Mr. Smiley and I exchanged a few emails about it. When I went trolling through the internet enabled suppliers on honeylocator they all seemed to be out as well, so.. boo!




great honey crisis of 2010 to replace the great hop crisis of 2007?