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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: trapae on April 03, 2018, 07:34:56 PM

Title: APA malt bill advice
Post by: trapae on April 03, 2018, 07:34:56 PM
 I’m trying to write recipe for an APA as follows:   OG ~ 1.050, IBU~45-50,  using equanot and mandarina bavaria mostly late/whirlpool.   Since those two hops are tropical, I want the malt bill not too sweet or complex.  I want it hop forward so the malt doesn’t detract from the hop taste.   I was thinking like something as follows for the malt....

95% 2 row
2.5%  Carmel 40
2.5%  Cara-pils

 Can anyone give an opinion on an APA Malt bill that they’ve done or had that they recommend for something like this?
Thanks.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: denny on April 03, 2018, 08:04:29 PM
Ask yourself why the carapils is on there.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: dmtaylor on April 03, 2018, 08:14:30 PM
Ask yourself why the carapils is on there.

You're funny.   ;D

Carapils is pretty worthless IMO.  It doesn't do what people think it does.  It's essentially equivalent to base malt.

Maybe add 2.5% biscuit or Victory malt instead.  That would be tasty.

You could even bump up the Crystal to 8% or something like that, and it wouldn't be overly sweet.

It will be delicious no matter what you do to it.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: denny on April 03, 2018, 08:19:24 PM
Ask yourself why the carapils is on there.

You're funny.   ;D

Carapils is pretty worthless IMO.  It doesn't do what people think it does.  It's essentially equivalent to base malt.

Maybe add 2.5% biscuit or Victory malt instead.  That would be tasty.

You could even bump up the Crystal to 8% or something like that, and it wouldn't be overly sweet.

It will be delicious no matter what you do to it.

I don't think it's worthless.  I think you have to have a reason for any ingredient you use and there may not be a reason for it here.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: trapae on April 04, 2018, 02:42:46 AM
I know there is a big carapils debate, but I’ve made my blonde with and without it and like it better with.
Thanks for the advice, prob add some victory.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: ynotbrusum on April 04, 2018, 05:21:34 PM
Ask yourself why the carapils is on there.

You're funny.   ;D

Carapils is pretty worthless IMO.  It doesn't do what people think it does.  It's essentially equivalent to base malt.

Maybe add 2.5% biscuit or Victory malt instead.  That would be tasty.

You could even bump up the Crystal to 8% or something like that, and it wouldn't be overly sweet.

It will be delicious no matter what you do to it.

I don't think it's worthless.  I think you have to have a reason for any ingredient you use and there may not be a reason for it here.

I wonder what reason would be for its use?  Based on a lot of discussion and perhaps data points (I don't recall), there is a position that it is actually foam negative, which is different than a base malt, I would think...I don't want to imply that this is based on rigorous testing, but it is out there. (I have a few pounds of Carafoam laying around that have gone unused for a while based on the negative foam concerns).  I would be interested in the experience of others and the benefits, if any, that have been noticed.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: denny on April 04, 2018, 05:23:03 PM
I wonder what reason would be for its use?  Based on a lot of discussion and perhaps data points (I don't recall), there is a position that it is actually foam negative, which is different than a base malt, I would think...I don't want to imply that this is based on rigorous testing, but it is out there. (I have a few pounds of Carafoam laying around that have gone unused for a while based on the negative foam concerns).  I would be interested in the experience of others and the benefits, if any, that have been noticed.

I don't think it's any more foam positive than any other malt. I use it for subtle color and flavor.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: Robert on April 04, 2018, 07:14:13 PM
I do find it detrimental to foam and mouthfeel, but I do also find it gives a subtle, hard to describe (nutty?) flavor that can be distinguished from base malts.  I'm just not a big fan.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: narcout on April 04, 2018, 07:24:28 PM
My favorite is around 93% 2-row and 7% C-60.  To me, it tastes pretty close to SNPA, which is my favorite commercial APA. 

I've played around with lighter crystal malt, wheat, no crystal malt (just base and lightly toasted), and the above is what I keep coming back to.

That's just my personal preference though.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: denny on April 04, 2018, 07:34:17 PM
I do find it detrimental to foam and mouthfeel, but I do also find it gives a subtle, hard to describe (nutty?) flavor that can be distinguished from base malts.  I'm just not a big fan.

Maybe my usage is below that threshold, or maybe I can't tell the difference, but I don't find small amounts detrimental.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: Robert on April 04, 2018, 08:05:02 PM
I do find it detrimental to foam and mouthfeel, but I do also find it gives a subtle, hard to describe (nutty?) flavor that can be distinguished from base malts.  I'm just not a big fan.

Maybe my usage is below that threshold, or maybe I can't tell the difference, but I don't find small amounts detrimental.
True, effects of everything depend on the amount.  I would keep it to a couple percent or so. But a flavor as subtle as carapils, in even larger amounts, probably wouldn't be distinguishable in the OP's APA (which may have been what you were getting at?)
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: denny on April 04, 2018, 08:06:51 PM
True, effects of everything depend on the amount.  I would keep it to a couple percent or so. But a flavor as subtle as carapils, in even larger amounts, probably wouldn't be distinguishable in the OP's APA (which may have been what you were getting at?)

Yeah, in my own obtuse way.  I'd either get it up to 5% or lose it, myself.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: dmtaylor on April 04, 2018, 08:36:17 PM
True, effects of everything depend on the amount.  I would keep it to a couple percent or so. But a flavor as subtle as carapils, in even larger amounts, probably wouldn't be distinguishable in the OP's APA (which may have been what you were getting at?)

Yeah, in my own obtuse way.  I'd either get it up to 5% or lose it, myself.

Or maybe try 50%.

http://scottjanish.com/dextrins-and-mouthfeel/
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: trapae on April 05, 2018, 12:33:24 AM
Crap, I didn’t mean for this to turn into a carapils debate.  Just wanted to see what people like for an APA malt bill.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: dmtaylor on April 05, 2018, 01:19:28 AM
Crap, I didn’t mean for this to turn into a carapils debate.  Just wanted to see what people like for an APA malt bill.

Apologies.  Keep it simple.  APA is a simple beer.  I like American pale malt and a bit o' crystal, hops of your choice... and that's what you've got.  So brew it, and enjoy it.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: ynotbrusum on April 05, 2018, 02:02:34 AM
That’s on me.  Sorry.  Listen to Dave and Denny.  If you like a beer that is hop forward, Brew with the hops suggested.  You will make a drinkable beer that meets or possibly exceeeds you expectations.  I should not have derailed this thread- my bad.  We all gave up more or less on the light crystals a while back, but that is another debate entirely.  Cheers dude, make that beer and enjoy!
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: blatz on April 05, 2018, 05:52:41 PM
favorite is around 93% 2-row and 7% C-60.To me, it tastes pretty close to SNPA, which is my favorite commercial APA. 

I've played around with lighter crystal malt, wheat, no crystal malt (just base and lightly toasted), and the above is what I keep coming back to.

That's just my personal preference though.

I agree. I eschewed 60 for the longest time, but I am now finding that its what I've been missing all along.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: narcout on April 05, 2018, 07:23:38 PM
favorite is around 93% 2-row and 7% C-60.To me, it tastes pretty close to SNPA, which is my favorite commercial APA. 

I've played around with lighter crystal malt, wheat, no crystal malt (just base and lightly toasted), and the above is what I keep coming back to.

That's just my personal preference though.

I agree. I eschewed 60 for the longest time, but I am now finding that its what I've been missing all along.

If I recall correctly, it's basically the recipe that Beerfan posted on the NB forum many years ago in the SNPA Cloning Made Simple thread.  Ironically, it eventually grew into a massive 20 page beast.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: trapae on April 06, 2018, 03:53:08 AM
I usually use 40 but I’m going to try 60. Thanks
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: mainebrewer on April 06, 2018, 11:25:16 AM
I use 95% base malt and 5% of either munich or victory.
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 06, 2018, 02:30:01 PM
Sierra Nevada stocks one Crystal malt in the production brewery, C-60. Which C-60 it is I can’t remember.

They have a homebrew recipe in their webpage, scroll down. When I toured the brewery in NC, they were using Bravo for the bittering addition.

92% 2 Row, 8% C-60.
https://sierranevada.com/beer/year-round/pale-ale
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: vpsihop1 on April 11, 2018, 06:01:22 AM
APA is a simple brew, bit think of a nice ESB. Alot of malt character. 2 row and C60 is fine, but think about adding something for complexity as others mentioned, Victory, biscuit, etc. How about some crystal that you haven't used before? I'm not saying go crazy, 3 grains max
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: charlie on April 14, 2018, 02:08:32 AM
I dumped Carapils from all of my recipes 5 or 6 years ago. I don't have any quantitative data on the before/after event, but my considered opinion is that carapils had no effect on my brew.

I'm sort of a medieval brewer. I brew in much the same way that they did in the 1600s (but with stainless steel vessels, and natural gas heat. lol).

Charlie
Title: Re: APA malt bill advice
Post by: BitterItDown on April 14, 2018, 07:34:08 PM
I dumped Carapils from all of my recipes 5 or 6 years ago. I don't have any quantitative data on the before/after event, but my considered opinion is that carapils had no effect on my brew.

I'm sort of a medieval brewer. I brew in much the same way that they did in the 1600s (but with stainless steel vessels, and natural gas heat. lol).

Charlie

It's all just marketing.  Carapils, Carafoam, Maltodextrin, etc...

An experiment would have to be conducted to determine how much of each is needed in order to be effective (or make a noticeable difference).  Ever wonder why those Coppers kits come with maltodextrin?...

As far as APA goes your recipe is fine.