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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: 1vertical on November 16, 2009, 01:15:32 AM

Title: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: 1vertical on November 16, 2009, 01:15:32 AM
I have read somewhere about beer that was made using 100% brett as the fermentation agent.  I think this sounds
interesting to me and I am considering a trial of this type of fermentation.  Does anyone here have any experience
with this and if so please share your knowledge.
Do's and Don'ts
Duration Times of fermentation
Wort Gravity for O.G.
Things like this would be good to know.
End results and beer taste notes
Thanks in advance....
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: brandon on November 16, 2009, 01:35:40 AM
Russian River Sanctification is a great all Brett beer. Here is some info from Vinnie:

You could easily homebrew this beer at home as it is fermented in stainless steel and none of it goes into oak barrels. I don’t have an exact homebrew recipe though I think Brew Your Own has done some variations of the recipe though I don’t know which issue.

Here are some basics:

85% 2-row Malt
5% Vienna Malt
5% Wheat Malt
5% Acidulated Malt

OG: 1.058
TG: 1.006-1.010
ABV: 6.25%
BU’s: 25ish

Hops:
Styrian Golding 90 minute – beginning of boil
Sterling 15 minutes to go in boil

The yeast is a mix of Brettanomyces and bacteria’s.
50% Brett Brux.
10% Brett Claus.
10% Brett Lambicus
30% Russian River Brewing “Funky Bunch” house yeast culture

The RRBC house culture we call the “Funky Bunch” could be cultured from a bottle of Beatification

You’ll see a long lag phase at the start of fermentation and then a slowing of fermentation when it gets to 1.020, from there it has to sit for a couple of months before it gets down to the gravity listed above. Depending on if you bottle or not you will need to make a decision on the final gravity. If you do bottle it has to be bottled at 1.010 or so, but, not above that or the bottles will over carbonate and the bottles might explode.

Good luck,

Vinnie
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: guvna on November 16, 2009, 01:42:33 AM
Mash temp?
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: brandon on November 16, 2009, 01:47:59 AM
Mash temp?
Just guessing, but I would say 150-151
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: a10t2 on November 16, 2009, 02:17:01 AM
And it's much less important with a Brett fermentation. They're going to eat damn near everything.
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: brewsnbikes on November 22, 2009, 04:43:30 PM
I did a 100% Bret (with lacto and pedio) beer with a 11.5 degree wheat beer.  Added a can of Oregon Raspberry puree to 4.5 gallons.  Not sure you have to do anything to special for Brett.  As mentioned above, it's going to tear through most of the sugar.  Especially if you throw bacteria in there too. 

As Vinnie's comments mention, it's pretty slow stuff.  Be patient and let it finish the job. 
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: majorvices on November 22, 2009, 08:05:07 PM
Most of the all brett beers I have tasted (I don't consider a beer fermented with brett and then funked up with bacteria "all brett") have been surprisingly clean. Seems like the brett throws more "brett character" when it has to scavenge for those last remaining sugars.
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: wilypig on November 23, 2009, 02:48:31 PM
Brett has a symbiotic relationship with Pedio that helps with the funk. All brett fermentations are very clean with a high level of acidity
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: saintpierre on September 19, 2012, 07:29:44 PM
Do you need to make a starter with a 100% brett beer?
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on September 19, 2012, 07:47:19 PM
Do you need to make a starter with a 100% brett beer?

Yep - most sources recommend lager pitching rates.
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: mihalybaci on September 19, 2012, 08:18:20 PM
Do you need to make a starter with a 100% brett beer?

Yep - most sources recommend lager pitching rates.

I've read (mostly on other posts in this forum) that Brett produces the most "funk" under stressful conditions. So if the purpose of all Brett beer is to really experience Brett's full character, wouldn't it be better to under pitch, at least slightly, to encourage ester production?
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: hoser on September 19, 2012, 08:31:13 PM
Do you need to make a starter with a 100% brett beer?

Yep - most sources recommend lager pitching rates.

I've read (mostly on other posts in this forum) that Brett produces the most "funk" under stressful conditions. So if the purpose of all Brett beer is to really experience Brett's full character, wouldn't it be better to under pitch, at least slightly, to encourage ester production?

When Brett. is used as the primary fermenter, it behaves almost as a regular sacchromyces yeast would.  Primary Brett. fermentation is remarkably clean with minimal funk.  If you are looking for that Brett. "funk" it is more beneficial to use it as secondary fermenter after the bulk of fermentation is done.  The flavor profile between a primary fermentation vs. a secondary fermentation with Brett. is very different.  At least based on my palate.
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: nateo on September 19, 2012, 08:40:10 PM
I thought Brett processes esters, phenols, and higher alcohols to get its unique flavor. I haven't tried it, but I've read that you'll get more Brett character if used in tandem with a Belgian yeast (lots of esters/phenols/fusels) than if you used Brett with a cleaner yeast.   
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: mpietropaoli on September 19, 2012, 10:43:00 PM
There is an article in one of the last 3 issues of Zymurgy about doing all brett beers, and there are 3 recipes.  If you are posting on here, do you have a subscription?  You can get the e-issues if  so. 

Interested in this thread as I'd like to do an all-brett farmhouse. 

My copy of that issue is at work, so I can check it tomorrow, but I believe as one poster said, if it is ALL brett (no pedio/other bug), you will have more dryness/acidity, less barnyard.
Title: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: jlo on September 19, 2012, 11:38:30 PM
I had a Surly Brewing Company BrettWagon IPA this last weekend.  It was really dry and I NEVER would have considered an IPA for an all Brett beer. 

There is a malt sweetness in their 'normal' version but the Brett version really dried out the malt and the hops popped.

If I were to try and dry out an IPA I might just try a nice healthy pitch of brett instead of adding sugar or other adjuncts to lighten the body.
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: tygo on September 20, 2012, 10:23:54 AM
The BN did an interview with Crooked Stave Artisan Beer Project earlier this year.  They specialize in all Brett fermentations.  Chad Yakobson, the owner, wrote the article in Zymurgy I believe.  There was a lot of good info during the interview.

http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/866
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on September 20, 2012, 01:33:34 PM
Do you need to make a starter with a 100% brett beer?

Yep - most sources recommend lager pitching rates.

I've read (mostly on other posts in this forum) that Brett produces the most "funk" under stressful conditions. So if the purpose of all Brett beer is to really experience Brett's full character, wouldn't it be better to under pitch, at least slightly, to encourage ester production?

If you want funk, just pitch brett in a mixed fermentation.

When used in primary fermentation, brett needs to be treated as you would sacch. or it won't attenuate. Adequate pitching, aeration, temp. control.

Per C. Yakobson's paper, increasing acidity of the wort will yield more flavor compounds from the brett, but it may not be the funky flavors you're expecting - more along the lines of esters and phenols produced with belgian strains.
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: mihalybaci on September 20, 2012, 02:20:58 PM
Do you need to make a starter with a 100% brett beer?

Yep - most sources recommend lager pitching rates.

I've read (mostly on other posts in this forum) that Brett produces the most "funk" under stressful conditions. So if the purpose of all Brett beer is to really experience Brett's full character, wouldn't it be better to under pitch, at least slightly, to encourage ester production?

If you want funk, just pitch brett in a mixed fermentation.

When used in primary fermentation, brett needs to be treated as you would sacch. or it won't attenuate. Adequate pitching, aeration, temp. control.

Per C. Yakobson's paper, increasing acidity of the wort will yield more flavor compounds from the brett, but it may not be the funky flavors you're expecting - more along the lines of esters and phenols produced with belgian strains.

Huh, that's interesting. I know 'Wild Brews' says that Brett is only "super-attenuative" in the presence of other yeasts/bacteria, but I figured that it would produce a similar character regardless. Good info.
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: troybinso on September 20, 2012, 03:42:54 PM
I did a 10 gallon saison batch split between 3711 French Saison yeast and WL677 Brett Troix in two primary fermentors. The 3711 blasted through like usual and finish at 1.005. The WL677 is still in a carboy, but it seems to have stopped at about 1.011. The taste out of the carboy for the brett beer is not very funky, and some interesting fruity esters. It is ready to bottle/keg and I will report back once it is carbonated.
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: paul on October 06, 2012, 05:42:06 AM
When used in primary fermentation, brett needs to be treated as you would sacch. or it won't attenuate. Adequate pitching, aeration, temp. control.

I beg to differ with the "aeration" portion of that statement.  When I made my first all-brett beer, I had read that brett could produce sour notes in the presence of oxygen.  I wanted a little funk, but no sour, so I pitched at an ale rate and introduced no oxygen.  The brett (a dual pitch of White Labs' brett brux and lambicus) achieved 85% attenuation in about 3 weeks.  The beer turned out pretty good too.  What a weird yeast!
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: saintpierre on November 06, 2012, 11:36:12 PM
Russian River Sanctification is a great all Brett beer. Here is some info from Vinnie:

You could easily homebrew this beer at home as it is fermented in stainless steel and none of it goes into oak barrels. I don’t have an exact homebrew recipe though I think Brew Your Own has done some variations of the recipe though I don’t know which issue.

Here are some basics:

85% 2-row Malt
5% Vienna Malt
5% Wheat Malt
5% Acidulated Malt

OG: 1.058
TG: 1.006-1.010
ABV: 6.25%
BU’s: 25ish

Hops:
Styrian Golding 90 minute – beginning of boil
Sterling 15 minutes to go in boil

The yeast is a mix of Brettanomyces and bacteria’s.
50% Brett Brux.
10% Brett Claus.
10% Brett Lambicus
30% Russian River Brewing “Funky Bunch” house yeast culture

The RRBC house culture we call the “Funky Bunch” could be cultured from a bottle of Beatification

You’ll see a long lag phase at the start of fermentation and then a slowing of fermentation when it gets to 1.020, from there it has to sit for a couple of months before it gets down to the gravity listed above. Depending on if you bottle or not you will need to make a decision on the final gravity. If you do bottle it has to be bottled at 1.010 or so, but, not above that or the bottles will over carbonate and the bottles might explode.

Good luck,

Vinnie
People with experience, how long are we talking here?  On Teach a friend... As a club we made a big Am. Barleywine (OG 1.109).  Since no one was claiming the second runnings and was basically going to be dumped I collect it and brewed up a smaller beer (OG 1.044).  I pitched a packet of Wyeast Bret Lambicus and has been sitting in glass since.  I don't really see the typical wreath as I do with saccharomyces but the air lock looks as though it has pressure.
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: dimik on November 07, 2012, 01:04:14 AM
Yup. Brett likes to take time to start up. It's due to their nature - they are naturally slow growers and fermentors.
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on November 07, 2012, 03:52:28 PM

Huh, that's interesting. I know 'Wild Brews' says that Brett is only "super-attenuative" in the presence of other yeasts/bacteria, but I figured that it would produce a similar character regardless. Good info.

Yeah - the commercial examples of 100% brett beers have been fairly mild. "Brett Beer" from New Belgium / Lost Abbey is what comes to mind. If you told me it was a Kolsch, I wouldn't have argued. Soft, dry, and fruity. Really nice beer.

Brett is a different beast as a primary and a secondary yeast. I could go into detail, but I'd just be quoting Chad Yakobsen:

http://www.brettanomycesproject.com/
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: CASK1 on November 12, 2012, 02:41:38 AM
I've made a number of 100% Brett beers, and I love them. I pitch a big starter and aerate the wort. Most are done in 3 weeks or so, and get to 80-90% attenuation. The beers tend to have a lot of tropical fruit and a light tartness that is very appealing. I've mainly used Brett c. One character I've noted consistently is a brilliant clarity in the finished beer that is hard to achieve in a Sacc fermentation.
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: jeffy on November 12, 2012, 03:04:09 AM
I've made a number of 100% Brett beers, and I love them. I pitch a big starter and aerate the wort. Most are done in 3 weeks or so, and get to 80-90% attenuation. The beers tend to have a lot of tropical fruit and a light tartness that is very appealing. I've mainly used Brett c. One character I've noted consistently is a brilliant clarity in the finished beer that is hard to achieve in a Sacc fermentation.
So, can you make a traditional style with it, for example, a porter or a pale ale, or are the beers on the sour side?  Tropical fruit sounds good in an English bitter or an APA, but sourness, not so much.
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: dimik on November 12, 2012, 03:19:58 AM
So, can you make a traditional style with it, for example, a porter or a pale ale, or are the beers on the sour side?  Tropical fruit sounds good in an English bitter or an APA, but sourness, not so much.

Hehehehe, you ABSOLUTELY can. Especially since Brettanomyces was named after British ales because the Brett flavors were typical for them about 100 years ago. I noticed that some Brett strains have a buttery feel and taste to them (probably diacetyl) which is also acceptable in English styles.
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: smalloy88 on September 18, 2016, 11:16:26 PM
I know this is an old thread, but I'm hoping to get some feedback from it. I kettle soured a Flanders Red and used Brett Lambicus as my primary yeast.

I built up the starter in two steps, first in 1/2 L of starter wort, then up to 1.25 L of starter wort. It smelled great in the starter and looked ready come brew day.

After pitching my starter of WLP653 and holding around 80 F, the fermentation took off like a rocket. I used a blow off tube and the foam quickly blew over a 6.5 gal carboy on the first night of fermentation. After four days, the fermentation calmed down and seems to have halted out (no more bubbling through blow-off or visible floc). I pulled a sample to test the flavor and gravity. The beer tastes and smells great, not really showing any signs of the cherry-pie aroma or flavor the starter had, but it still has a good balance of funk. The only problem is the gravity is only reading 1040. The OG was 1060 and I wanted to get this one down, close to 1010.

Will the yeast continue to work? It seems like everything is dormant (visibly), even when I rock the fermenter once or twice a day to re-suspend the yeast. Am I being too impatient, or has this pitch of yeast done all it will do? I have a pack of US-04 dry yeast on deck in case I need to finish off the beer. I will give it another week or so and take another gravity reading. Judging by the bubbling, it doesn't seem like this beer is going to move anymore. This is my first attempt at a quick kettle sour, so I'm not too sure what to expect.
Title: Re: 100% Brettanomyces (or similar) fermentation
Post by: reverseapachemaster on September 19, 2016, 03:14:10 PM
I know this is an old thread, but I'm hoping to get some feedback from it. I kettle soured a Flanders Red and used Brett Lambicus as my primary yeast.

I built up the starter in two steps, first in 1/2 L of starter wort, then up to 1.25 L of starter wort. It smelled great in the starter and looked ready come brew day.

After pitching my starter of WLP653 and holding around 80 F, the fermentation took off like a rocket. I used a blow off tube and the foam quickly blew over a 6.5 gal carboy on the first night of fermentation. After four days, the fermentation calmed down and seems to have halted out (no more bubbling through blow-off or visible floc). I pulled a sample to test the flavor and gravity. The beer tastes and smells great, not really showing any signs of the cherry-pie aroma or flavor the starter had, but it still has a good balance of funk. The only problem is the gravity is only reading 1040. The OG was 1060 and I wanted to get this one down, close to 1010.

Will the yeast continue to work? It seems like everything is dormant (visibly), even when I rock the fermenter once or twice a day to re-suspend the yeast. Am I being too impatient, or has this pitch of yeast done all it will do? I have a pack of US-04 dry yeast on deck in case I need to finish off the beer. I will give it another week or so and take another gravity reading. Judging by the bubbling, it doesn't seem like this beer is going to move anymore. This is my first attempt at a quick kettle sour, so I'm not too sure what to expect.

Brett needs time. It will eventually chew that beer down into the single digits.