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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: abraxas on August 13, 2010, 04:20:39 AM

Title: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: abraxas on August 13, 2010, 04:20:39 AM
I have had three beers that had had a cat urine rank and three were brewed with citra hops.  Might just be me...but I am not a fan.  Though SN Torpedo seems to be an exception.



Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: theDarkSide on August 13, 2010, 01:07:04 PM
I can see that.  I did a pale ale with Citra at 15 and 0, plus dry hop and I got that catty smell.  It did fade with time and turned out to be a decent beer. ( translation: I drank to rest of the keg ).
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: passlaku on August 13, 2010, 01:11:49 PM
I had this experience too but noticed it dropped out after about a month. Likewise, the "catty" quality is liked by some.  And rather than calling it cat piss, I heard that BJCP judges are encouraged to call this aroma Durian-like (Asian stinky fruit).  I guess people don't like to be told that their beer smells and taste like cat pee.  Further, I think that only a minority of judges have actually drank cat pee.

In sum, I wonder if it could be that Citra should be avoided as a single dryhop for this reason.   According to SN they dryhop Torpedo with Citra, Chinook, and Magnum.  
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: blatz on August 13, 2010, 01:27:59 PM
According to SN they dryhop Torpedo with Citra, Chinook, and Magnum.  

the amount of Citra that SN actually uses in Torpedo is practically de minimus.

I'm not a fan of this hop either.  but for the reason it is too tropical fruity for my tastes/sniffer.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: blatz on August 13, 2010, 01:28:54 PM
Further, I think that only a minority of judges have actually drank cat pee.

but some have - that's the funny part  ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: abraxas on August 13, 2010, 01:31:49 PM
Further, I think that only a minority of judges have actually drank cat pee.

but some have - that's the funny part  ;) :D ;D

All of the judges that have judged my beers have  ;)
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: susanr on August 13, 2010, 02:04:58 PM
Hi,  I have to say the beers I have had that used Citra hops have been wonderful - I had one at Boulevard Brewery on a tour (can't remember which one it was exactly) that was phenomenal. 

I also made an IPA that I served at the National Homebrew Conference that turned out really good but was a blend of Citra and Cascade and I didn't dry hop - just added a ton of hops in the last couple minutes.  I love the lemony-orange aromas/flavors it gives off.

I did have a friend that made a batch with a lot more Citra and he didn't really like it at all.

So, I guess I am saying that it probably isn't a great hop for dry-hopping but it definitely has it's uses in the right place.

Cheers,
Susan
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: Kit B on August 13, 2010, 02:22:43 PM
I have been using a lot of citra, over the last few months.
Initially, they can impart a cat-pee smell.
But, all have improved drastically with age.

Now...
The actual cat-pee I recently smelled on Rabe's shoes...
That can't be improved with age.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: majorvices on August 13, 2010, 04:55:13 PM
.  but for the reason it is too tropical fruity for my tastes/sniffer.

I ruined 20 gallons of my summer seasonal Hoppy Wheat beer I brew for the end of summer with this hop. I'm ready to dump it - I hate the tropical fruit character. I do think it would go wonderful in a saison though.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: Kit B on August 13, 2010, 08:10:45 PM
You can ship it to my house.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: majorvices on August 13, 2010, 08:36:19 PM
Bring your growlers on over because I'm going to dump this mess to make room for some real beer.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: beerocd on August 13, 2010, 10:25:51 PM
Can't cover it up by making a radler? If you're still doing construction - I figure those guys will drink anything.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: thirsty on August 13, 2010, 11:15:11 PM
Are these similar to chinook? Curious before I commit to 5 gals
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: dbeechum on August 14, 2010, 12:00:16 AM
It's not really similar to Chinook to me at all. I get very large mango/pineapple from the hop and not really any cattiness.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: markaberrant on August 14, 2010, 02:50:01 AM
I did a really hoppy IIPA with equal amounts of citra and simcoe at every addition earlier this year.  When fresh, it tasted like lemon pledge and cat pee.  Took several months to settle into a tropical fruit bomb.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: majorvices on August 14, 2010, 06:44:41 PM
Can't cover it up by making a radler? If you're still doing construction - I figure those guys will drink anything.

Actually, the construction is basically done outside of a few bits and bobs. I have a friend who likes the hop and asked me to swap him out a keg. I may actually hold onto the other ones. My feeling is I *maybe* could get used to it... maybe.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: mr_jeffers on August 14, 2010, 11:37:08 PM
Keg it, set it aside, and serve it when you host your first AHA membership rally.  ;D


I made a IIPA with Cascade, Amarillo and Citra used in all additions, and an ounce each dry hopped.  Never detected any cat pee tones, and everyone I gave it to seemed to really like it. 
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: jptheelder on August 15, 2010, 09:14:42 PM
I thought Citra was wonderful. I wonder if I should try some cat pee.  :D
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: etbrew on August 16, 2010, 12:15:49 AM
Can't say I've ever smelled cat piss in any brews made with citra but a friend did mention it when drinking one from a local brewpub.  I made an IPA with Citra six months ago that was great and I have one in secondary right now dry hopped with citra and cascade.  I'll chime in if I notice any pee notes...
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: majorvices on August 17, 2010, 12:46:14 PM
So, after about 2 weeks of sampling off this keg I can safely say that I do not care for this hops flavor/aroma in my APA/IPAs. I do think it would make a nice background hop in a Saison. The other thing that struck me might be a great fit would be a tropical stout(!).
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: gordonstrong on August 17, 2010, 12:49:17 PM
Did you just use Citra or other hops too?  The first time I used Simcoe, I used just that hop.  It scored horribly because it seemed like judges didn't know what to do what that hop aroma.  But if I mix it with Amarillo, it's a lot better. Wonder if Citra is the same way.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: majorvices on August 17, 2010, 01:15:17 PM
Nope. blended it 50/50 as an aroma hop with Amarillo. This beer is also a regular rotation of mine so I generally know what to expect. Its not terrible and I will drink some of it (and give some more of it away), just not my cup of .... err ... pint of beer.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: majorvices on August 17, 2010, 01:16:32 PM
Speaking of tea it just dawned on me that this is what it reminds me of - that fruit infused iced tea you get at restaurants. I hate that stuff.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: bonjour on August 17, 2010, 01:25:37 PM
Thanks Keith,
I' love that explanation.  Tea infused with cat piss, I mean fruit ;)

Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: majorvices on August 17, 2010, 01:31:49 PM
Hmmmm - this might also explain why I don't have a cat.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: gordonstrong on August 17, 2010, 01:48:59 PM
Fruit tea at restaurants?  So like a mango character?  Not a bright clean fruit, but a somewhat pungent, musky character?
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: blatz on August 17, 2010, 02:30:01 PM
Fruit tea at restaurants?  So like a mango character?  Not a bright clean fruit, but a somewhat pungent, musky character?

Gordon that is exactly it - best description I've heard yet. 
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: majorvices on August 17, 2010, 02:55:20 PM
Definitely tropical fruit. Mango fits the bill. More "bright" then I expected though. Although some of the "bright" citrus may be coming from the Amarillo.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: dean on August 17, 2010, 04:09:30 PM
Everytime I see this thread it reminds me of a friend that recently made comment on facebook, he's a tell it like it is sort of fellow and I always have a good laugh at his descriptions especially when he's tying it to something in his stories.  I prefer his description;  rancid cat piss.    :D  ;D 
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 17, 2010, 09:34:08 PM
In sum, I wonder if it could be that Citra should be avoided as a single dryhop for this reason.   According to SN they dryhop Torpedo with Citra, Chinook, and Magnum.  

Chinook?  Where did you get that?

From the SN website.   Magnum, Crystal & Citra

The article in BYO said equal amounts of Magnum, Crystal & Citra as dryhops.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: markaberrant on August 18, 2010, 07:04:01 PM
From the SN website.   Magnum, Crystal & Citra

The article in BYO said equal amounts of Magnum, Crystal & Citra as dryhops.

I took a picture inside the hop room at Sierra Nevada last fall.  In the background is a white board with the amounts posted for dry hoppping their Torpedo Extra IPA.  I can tell you that they were not equal amounts.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 18, 2010, 07:43:34 PM
Wish I would have noticed that board when I was there!
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: markaberrant on August 18, 2010, 07:53:13 PM
Wish I would have noticed that board when I was there!

It also had the hop schedule for Celebration.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: theDarkSide on August 18, 2010, 08:10:19 PM

It also had the hop schedule for Celebration.

Steve Dresler just gave this recipe on the Brewing Network Sunday Session from 8-8-10, just so you know.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: bonjour on August 18, 2010, 08:16:53 PM
I did a really hoppy IIPA with equal amounts of citra and simcoe at every addition earlier this year.  When fresh, it tasted like lemon pledge and cat pee.  Took several months to settle into a tropical fruit bomb.
And you are experienced?  :o
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: markaberrant on August 18, 2010, 09:07:41 PM
I did a really hoppy IIPA with equal amounts of citra and simcoe at every addition earlier this year.  When fresh, it tasted like lemon pledge and cat pee.  Took several months to settle into a tropical fruit bomb.
And you are experienced?  :o

I do have 2 large old cats.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: mikeypedersen on August 18, 2010, 09:55:05 PM
I've definitely gotten the Cat Pee aroma out of this hop before.  Started out using it as a mix with Columbus hops for dry-hopping and APA.  It was very good in small amounts.  But I kept stepping it up and eventually used a significant amount dry-hopping an IIPA.  Another Judge and I put our noses in it and both said "Catty" right away.  It did fade after a while, but it was torture to let an IIPA age for a month or more.  Thank goodness I have notes, so I know not to do that again!
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: passlaku on August 19, 2010, 06:06:47 PM
I got that from the beeradvocate website: http://beeradvocate.com/news/1677284

The Beer:
Torpedo is in a grey area, somewhere between an IPA and a Double IPA...We are calling it Extra IPA...
7.4% ABV
IBU's in the high 70's to 80's

Bittering hops: with Magnum
Finishing hops: Magnum, Crystal, Chinook.
Torpedo: Magnum, Chinook, Citra.

Sometime closer to the release date I will send along a proper press release, for now, I thought this would satisfy the curiosity of the BA faithful.
Title: Re: Citra hops smell like cat urine to me
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 19, 2010, 06:54:21 PM
I got that from the beeradvocate website: http://beeradvocate.com/news/1677284
The Beer:
Torpedo is in a grey area, somewhere between an IPA and a Double IPA...We are calling it Extra IPA...
7.4% ABV
IBU's in the high 70's to 80's
Bittering hops: with Magnum
Finishing hops: Magnum, Crystal, Chinook.
Torpedo: Magnum, Chinook, Citra.
Sometime closer to the release date I will send along a proper press release, for now, I thought this would satisfy the curiosity of the BA faithful.

They may have changed it, the above is from Bill Manley, who is the "PR department" at Sierra Nevada.
I see the listed IBU's are at 65 on the website.
http://www.sierranevada.com/beers/torpedo.html