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General Category => Kegging and Bottling => Topic started by: pokeysbrew on August 13, 2010, 04:49:46 PM

Title: bottle sanitizing
Post by: pokeysbrew on August 13, 2010, 04:49:46 PM
Crazy question.  I am looking for a way to cut down on the time it takes to bottle, since I am brewing more and more.  Does anyone just put clean bottles into the dishwasher, run a full cycle without detergent and bottle straight from there?
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: ajk on August 13, 2010, 04:58:28 PM
That's what I do.  I also make sure Sani-Rinse, which enables further heating of the incoming water, is turned on and Air Dry, which disables the heating element during the dry cycle, is turned off.  I leave the bottles in the dishwasher with the door closed until a couple of hours before bottling, at which time I cap them with aluminum foil and put them in a refrigerator to chill them down to beer temperature.

Some claim a dishwasher doesn't produce the temperatures needed for sufficient sanitization, and I've never tested the internal temperature of my dishwasher.  But I've never had a bottle infection.
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: tschmidlin on August 13, 2010, 05:20:31 PM
That should work fine, although I'm not convinced running the dishwasher, tinfoil, refrigerator, then fill, is any faster than using starsan.
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: wingnut on August 13, 2010, 05:23:09 PM
Dishwashers "Sanitize" at about 165 F.  Some go higher, but most newer ones only sanitize to 165.  (Do not know the time duration).  That should be good enough.  Also, if it has an NSF label on it, it has been certified to sanitize.

Two potential issues:  

Over time the glass will fatigue and a "more than normal" number of bottles will crack on capping.  (However, that should not be a significant increase... just think of how many glasses you have lost in the past year? One, two? and those go through many more cycles than your beer bottles)

The dishwasher is not a perfect cleaning instrument.  Mine sometimes leaves some "gunk" in the bottles after washing.  After heat sanitizing, it is likely sanitary gunk, but not attractive and may cause foam issues when pouring at a later date.  



What  I have been doing with success is keep a bucket of starsan available.  Keep the bottles well rinsed after use, and wash them in PBW if your neighbor did not rinse them well.  Then dunk the "clean" bottles in the Star San for two minutes, drain and fill.  I have even put my Starsan in the Fridge to help the cooling process for the bottles. (Filling cold bottles from the tap is supposed to be better..   (Keep a lid on the container when in the fridge, however, or the humidity in the fridge will be too high and cause mold issues over time).

So, use the dishwasher if that makes sense, or jush change the liquid sanitizer method.  I have tried both, and prefer the liquid method, but my reason was also encouraged because our dishwasher is NEVER empty!

Good luck.
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: BrewArk on August 13, 2010, 06:28:30 PM
I run my empties through the dishwasher with my dinner dishes.  I figure that leaves them clean enough that I won't be propagating large colonies of bugs.

Then on bottling day I'll do a rinse cycle just to get the dust out of them.  If it's been too long, I might throw in a 1/2 cup of Clorox, but it's usually just the rinse.
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: tom on August 13, 2010, 08:06:06 PM
A dishwasher can't get the inside of the bottles clean. But some do have a sanitize cycle. Then you can leave them in the dishwasher to cool overnight. Some even fill the bottles right there on the dishwasher door. Then the spillage is already taken care of.
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: ajk on August 14, 2010, 12:46:37 PM
Right, the OP was talking about putting clean bottles in the dishwasher.  I wouldn't expect the dishwasher to adequately clean dirty bottles.
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: hopaddicted on August 14, 2010, 06:01:57 PM
My father just bakes his bottles to sanitize and then puts a small piece of sanitized aluminum foil over the top of them. He swears by it, but I haven't tried it. Just need to make sure bottles are cleaned after drinking and no labels are on them.
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: rabid_dingo on August 15, 2010, 10:06:06 PM
Right, the OP was talking about putting clean bottles in the dishwasher.  I wouldn't expect the dishwasher to adequately clean dirty bottles.

The few times I bottle anymore, they get a thorough scrubbing with a brush with PBW. Then a good rinse and rigth into the diswasher, as stated above. No detergent just the Sanitize cycle...Bottle the next day, I leave the door closed until I am ready.
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: tygo on August 15, 2010, 10:48:45 PM
My father just bakes his bottles to sanitize and then puts a small piece of sanitized aluminum foil over the top of them. He swears by it, but I haven't tried it. Just need to make sure bottles are cleaned after drinking and no labels are on them.

What temperature should you bake at to sanitize?  250?
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: gordonstrong on August 16, 2010, 12:11:47 AM
250F is fine. Technically, I think anything over 140F will kill bacteria, but I like to go over 212F to drive off any water.  When I use this method, I normally do 250.
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: bluesman on August 16, 2010, 12:58:34 AM
Yes. 

250F is the temp to hit. 

Better safe than sorry.
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: tschmidlin on August 16, 2010, 05:11:40 AM
250F is hot enough to kill most things that are likely to be in your bottles, but not everything.  Among other things, some fungal spores can survive 250F.  Autoclaves typically use pressure, moisture, and 250F to sterilize.  The pressure and moisture makes a big difference in terms of what will survive and what will die and how long it takes.  But if you are good about cleaning your bottles right away you shouldn't have any problems using an oven at 250F to sanitize.
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: dano14041 on September 25, 2010, 04:50:01 AM
Some even fill the bottles right there on the dishwasher door. Then the spillage is already taken care of.

This is genius! I would have never thought to bottle on the dishwasher door, but it saved me a helluva lot of clean up time tonight!

Thanks!
Dano
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: euge on September 25, 2010, 05:50:54 AM
I have a "sanitize" feature on my DW. This approach will be tried this weekend.
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: theoman on September 25, 2010, 07:05:31 PM
I make sure I rinse the bottles well after emptying them, then I just use the dishwasher on bottling day. I'll keep the dishwasher closed until I'm ready to fill. Sometimes I'll do an extra rinse cycle, if I'm feeling extra paranoid, and I always do a heated dry. I've never had a problem.
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: amish electrician on September 29, 2010, 03:16:59 AM
When I was bottling I'd keep the bottles rinsed well and usually just sanitize on bottling day using one of those pump sanitizers.  I would put the sanitized bottles upside down in the dishwashers and take 4-6 out at a time and put them on the counter to fill.
Title: Re: bottle sanitizing
Post by: wingnut on September 30, 2010, 03:56:47 AM
I have a "sanitize" feature on my DW. This approach will be tried this weekend.

A friend of mine swears by putting PBW into the soap dispenser, doing a full wash cycle, full rinse, and full heated dry with the "sanitize" feature on, then he pulls the bottles off the rack one by one while filling over the open door of his dish washer. 

His bottles are clean, sanitized and the mess is contained.

I think he is a genius... but I have had issues with my dish waster leaving gunk in my bottles from time to time.  I suspect that my issue is due to being on a well with hard water... and that has reduced the effectiveness of my dish waster to remove food particles from previous washings.  Hopefully your washer will perform!

Also, in my racks, I  cannot get 48 bottles to fit... so doing a full 5 gal batch is an issue.

Good luck