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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: Joe on May 13, 2019, 11:54:53 PM

Title: Cherry Berliner
Post by: Joe on May 13, 2019, 11:54:53 PM
So I'm looking to brew this recipe.
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/cherry-weisse/?type=success&msg=You%20have%20been%20logged%20in%20successfully!
My main question is regarding the lactobacillus.  So I know I have to have sour dedicated equipment. The recipe is a little vague on the yeast side. Do I pitch the lactobacillus and the yeast at the same time?
I've read a few articles on sour brewing and have gotten multiple answers.

Also how long does fermentation  usually take for lactobacillus  sours. Some sites claim 2-3 years but didn't specify lactobacillus just general sours which I feel is more for wild sours. Any and all help/advice is always appreciated.
Title: Re: Cherry Berliner
Post by: chezteth on May 14, 2019, 12:05:10 AM
So I'm looking to brew this recipe.
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/cherry-weisse/?type=success&msg=You%20have%20been%20logged%20in%20successfully!
My main question is regarding the lactobacillus.  So I know I have to have sour dedicated equipment. The recipe is a little vague on the yeast side. Do I pitch the lactobacillus and the yeast at the same time?
I've read a few articles on sour brewing and have gotten multiple answers.

Also how long does fermentation  usually take for lactobacillus  sours. Some sites claim 2-3 years but didn't specify lactobacillus just general sours which I feel is more for wild sours. Any and all help/advice is always appreciated.
My understanding of the recipe is to pitch the yeast and lactobacillious at the same time. I would expect it to take 3-6 months for the acidity to develop. It could take longer depending on the temperature it's kept at.

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Title: Re: Cherry Berliner
Post by: goose on May 14, 2019, 01:25:21 PM
You could also kettle sour the wort with lacto before boiling it.  Keep it around 100 degrees of so (if I remember the temperature correctly) overnight, do you normal boil and hop additions the next day, and pitch your other yeast.  The boil will kill off the bacteria but leave the sourness.  There is a guy in one of my brew clubs that makes berliners just that way and wins medals in every competition with them.

Just another idea.
Title: Re: Cherry Berliner
Post by: RC on May 14, 2019, 03:55:02 PM
You can pitch the yeast and and lacto at the same time, or not. Doesn't matter. Either way, the lacto will just hang out in the background until the yeast are out of the way. Lacto (and other brewing bugs) are slow eaters in a secondary carboy, so I'd plan on a 3-12 month souring time. How long to give it depends on how sour you want it. Sample it once a month, that'll be your guide. You don't necessarily need a second set of equipment to deal with sour beers provided you clean and sanitize very well.
Title: Re: Cherry Berliner
Post by: Joe on May 14, 2019, 06:17:43 PM
Thanks guys.  I clean and sanitize meticulously and frequently. This recipe appealed to me because  I would only need a separate fermentation bucket and I have about a dozen.

In regards to tasting it doesnt that risk oxidation by opening it frequently?
Title: Re: Cherry Berliner
Post by: RC on May 14, 2019, 08:20:29 PM
If you're using a bucket, yeah you'll get some O2 ingress from sampling. You can minimize it, e.g. use a length of hose to siphon via the stopper hole in the lid, rather than opening the entire lid, but you won't be able to avoid it completely. But I've sampled plenty of beers over the years and any O2 ingress has never had a perceptible impact on the finished beer. YMMV.

The alternative is deciding to package your Berliner weisse without having any clue where the acidity stands. Up to you whether sampling vs. blind packaging carries the larger risk.
Title: Re: Cherry Berliner
Post by: denny on May 14, 2019, 08:51:44 PM
If you're using a bucket, yeah you'll get some O2 ingress from sampling. You can minimize it, e.g. use a length of hose to siphon via the stopper hole in the lid, rather than opening the entire lid, but you won't be able to avoid it completely. But I've sampled plenty of beers over the years and any O2 ingress has never had a perceptible impact on the finished beer. YMMV.

The alternative is deciding to package your Berliner weisse without having any clue where the acidity stands. Up to you whether sampling vs. blind packaging carries the larger risk.

I flush the bucket with CO2 after opening to take a sample.  Not foolproof, of course, but I think it helps.
Title: Re: Cherry Berliner
Post by: Joe on May 14, 2019, 08:59:37 PM
If you're using a bucket, yeah you'll get some O2 ingress from sampling. You can minimize it, e.g. use a length of hose to siphon via the stopper hole in the lid, rather than opening the entire lid, but you won't be able to avoid it completely. But I've sampled plenty of beers over the years and any O2 ingress has never had a perceptible impact on the finished beer. YMMV.

The alternative is deciding to package your Berliner weisse without having any clue where the acidity stands. Up to you whether sampling vs. blind packaging carries the larger risk.

I also have several glass carboys. Those are probably  what I'll realistically  use.
Title: Re: Cherry Berliner
Post by: jorjon000 on May 15, 2019, 01:42:19 AM
Just did this yesterday. I mashed as usual and lowered temp to 120F. At this point I added the lacto and kettle soured for 48hrs. I kept the temp between 90 and 120F by heating the kettle and then covering it with cloths and towels.
When it tasted sour enough, I performed a short boil, added hops, then cooled and pitched yeast normally.