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General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: kylekohlmorgen on August 19, 2010, 07:58:16 PM

Title: English IPA tips
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on August 19, 2010, 07:58:16 PM
Giving a first attempt at an English IPA, but I don't have a lot of resources outside of Jamil's book...

What are your opinions on:

 - Good commercial examples, especially ones brewed here (I, for example, LOVE Three Floyds' version)
 - Yeast selection
 - Hop schedule (dry hopping?)
 - OG/FG

I will also gladly accept award-winning recipes if you've got 'em  ;D
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: mrbowenz on August 20, 2010, 11:37:03 AM
There are a few examples state-side, but probably best to seek out the true English IPA's , if you can find it "Meantime makes a great EIPA" or Samuel Smith or even Worthington's White Shield.

There are a few good English yeast selections, 1968, 1098, 1099 or my favorite 1275 Thames Valley

I think the secret is a balanced bitterness , high hop aroma from dry-hoping and a slightly dry finish. Don't be afraid of using some non-traditional hops for dry-hopping too. Other than that and IMO..stick with E.K.Goldings or Fuggles for bittering and flavor.

Try making a 3.5 ABV IPA, but you should try to keep your formulations under 6% ABV for the style. Experiment with your water, use good English malt.. Crisp, Thomas Fawcett or Golden Promise.

Oh, and here's my recipe for English IPA:

Brew Type: All Grain Date: 5/16/2007
Style: English IPA Brewer: Christopher Bowen
Batch Size: 5.00 gal Assistant Brewer: 
Boil Volume: 5.72 gal Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 % Equipment: My Equipment
Actual Efficiency: 70.04 %


Gold Medal and Best of show at the 2007 Great American Beer Festival - ProAM catagory, Silver medal at the AHA regional , Gold medal at the Kona Beer Festival 2008

Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
9 lbs 3.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 85.09 %
14.1 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 8.15 %
6.4 oz Amber Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 3.70 %
5.3 oz Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 3.06 %
1.25 oz Chinook [12.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops - 
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 34.3 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (30 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (10 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
1.00 tsp Yeast Nutrient (Primary 3.0 days) Misc 
1 Pkgs Thames Valley Ale (Wyeast Labs #1275) [Starter 125 ml] Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.058 SG (1.050-1.075 SG) Measured Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.014 SG (1.010-1.018 SG) Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Estimated Color: 10.8 SRM (8.0-14.0 SRM) Color [Color]
Bitterness: 34.3 IBU (40.0-60.0 IBU) Alpha Acid Units: 10.0 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 5.66 % (5.00-7.50 %) Actual Alcohol by Volume: 5.74 %
Actual Calories: 239 cal/pint


Mash Profile Name: Single Infusion, Full Body Mash 
Mash Grain Weight: 10.80 lb Mash PH: 5.4 PH
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Sparge Water: 2.29

Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Mash In Add 3.38 gal of water at 163.7 F 152.0 F 90 min
Mash Out Add 1.35 gal of water and heat to 180.0 F over 2 min 180.0 F 10 min

Carbonation and Storage Carbonation Type: Corn Sugar Carbonation Volumes: 2.0

Cheers
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: bluesman on August 20, 2010, 01:47:12 PM
I like to use WLP002.

I also like using all EKG's for flavor, aroma and dry hop.  Moderate to high hop aroma is key to this fine beer.

It should be clear and I shoot for amber in color.  I like a medium bodied mouthfeel with this beer.

Price's English IPA
English IPA

 
Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Brewer: bluesman
Boil Size: 6.63 gal
Boil Time: 90 min 
 
Ingredients
 
Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 81.63 %
.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.08 %
.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 4.08 %
.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 4.08 %
.50 lb Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM) Grain 4.08 %
.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 2.04 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] (90 min) Hops 28.0 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 15.4 IBU
.5 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (30 min) Hops 5.3 IBU
.5 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] [4.50 %] (20 min) Hops 3.8 IBU
.5 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (10 min) Hops 2.5 IBU
.5 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops - 
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc 
5.5 gal Poland Spring (R) Water 
1 Pkgs English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) [Starter 2000 ml] Yeast-Ale 


Beer Profile
 
Est Original Gravity: 1.062 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.060 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.018 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.79 % 
Bitterness: 55.1 IBU
Est Color: 11.0 SRM
 
Mash Profile
 
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 12.25 lb
Sparge Water: 4.25 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F

Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
60 min Mash @ 150.0 F

Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: bonjour on August 20, 2010, 01:53:28 PM
I will also gladly accept award-winning recipes if you've got 'em  ;D
Check out my website  ;D
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: markaberrant on August 20, 2010, 06:11:59 PM
http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/BlitzkriegHops

To clarify, the correct gravity numbers are 1.068 SG, 1.016 FG, and you want your sulfate level around 500ppm.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on August 21, 2010, 03:34:42 PM
Actual Calories: 239 cal/pint

Thanks for the great recipe! What is the brewing software you're using thats giving you the calorie guilt-trip???
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: brushvalleybrewer on August 21, 2010, 08:26:42 PM
- Good commercial examples, especially ones brewed here (I, for example, LOVE Three Floyds' version)

If Philadelphia qualifies as “here,” and if you can get it, I think Yards India Pale Ale (http://www.yardsbrewing.com/ales_india-pale.asp) is quite good and tastes like what I remember from trips to England.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: beerocd on August 21, 2010, 08:29:45 PM
- Good commercial examples, especially ones brewed here (I, for example, LOVE Three Floyds' version)

If Philadelphia qualifies as “here,” and if you can get it, I think Yards India Pale Ale (http://www.yardsbrewing.com/ales_india-pale.asp) is quite good and tastes like what I remember from trips to England.

I think here meant US; but if he meant really local then FFF is on the illinois-indiana border; basically a suburb of Chicago.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on August 21, 2010, 10:47:22 PM
Yessir... I live in Indy and bow to Nick and the guys at FFF... i LOVE Blackheart (the English IPA), Dark Lord, Bohemoth, Dreadnaught, etc., etc., etc....

http://www.3floyds.com/our-beers-2/

If you can't get their beers where you're at, I think we could arrange a trade of "Yeast Samples" via UPS
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: kylekohlmorgen on August 21, 2010, 10:53:17 PM
oh... and I did some "research"... bought St. Peter's IPA and Ridgeway IPA.

The St. Peters was great... so earthy/dank in the nose, my girlfriend swore I tracked dirt into the kitchen on my shoes!

Wonderful, round malt profile. Just bitter enough to satisfy and balance. A bit oxidized from the trip (I would love to taste it at the brewery someday!)... but thats why I'm making one myself!

Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: euge on August 22, 2010, 05:16:32 PM
I like that St Peter's. Expensive so it's an occasional treat. I'm trying to emulate the mouth-feel and malt profile of these type of English ales. Some success but I'm still working on it. Let us know if you achieve what you're looking for.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: alikocho on August 24, 2010, 08:12:55 PM
Not sure if you can get it in the US, but Marston's Old Empire is a reasonable EIPA.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: redbeerman on August 24, 2010, 11:12:13 PM
Not sure if you can get it in the US, but Marston's Old Empire is a reasonable EIPA.


Stateline in MD has or had it.  I tried a bottle when I was tasting a group of EIPAs to formulate my recipe.  There was a range of maltiness, but all were well hopped.

Lantern Yard IPA
English IPA

 
Type: All Grain
 Date: 4/18/2010
Batch Size: 5.30 gal
 Brewer: Jim Rosenkranz
Boil Size: 7.00 gal Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 60 min  Equipment: Brew Pot (15 Gal) and Igloo/Gott Cooler (10 Gal) for 5 gallon batch 
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0  Brewhouse Efficiency: 73.00
Taste Notes: 
 
Ingredients
 
Amount Item Type % or IBU
11.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 84.62 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops - 
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 12.0 IBU
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.00 %] (60 min) Hops 23.7 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (20 min) Hops 9.0 IBU
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (5 min) Hops 3.0 IBU
1 Pkgs English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) Yeast-Ale 

 
 
Beer Profile
 
Est Original Gravity: 1.067 SG
 Measured Original Gravity: 1.067 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.020 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.020 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.06 %  Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.14 %
Bitterness: 47.7 IBU Calories: 305 cal/pint
Est Color: 10.7 SRM Color: Color 
 
 
Mash Profile
 
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 13.00 lb
Sparge Water: 4.49 gal Grain Temperature: 65.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 65.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH
 
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 19.50 qt of water at 164.8 F 154.0 F

 
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: anthayes on August 26, 2010, 12:55:38 PM
Burtonise the liquor.

Floor malted Maris Otter pale malt only (low colour if you want to be authentic).
No other malts.

Perhaps a little sugar in the grist - up to 10%.

English hops  - I suggest Kent Goldings - lots of them, but keep it balanced. (OG 1.070, 50 IBUs - or thereabouts)

English ale yeast that ferments dry - Nottingham is pretty reliable

Age for 18 months, and then dry hop.

Ant Hayes
Tonbridge, Kent
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: vista on August 26, 2010, 01:15:22 PM

Age for 18 months, and then dry hop.

Ant Hayes
Tonbridge, Kent

WOAH?! ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: hopfenundmalz on August 26, 2010, 01:24:35 PM

Age for 18 months, and then dry hop.

Ant Hayes
Tonbridge, Kent

WOAH?! ??? ??? ??? ???

This is an English IPA, not an Americna hop bomb.  I have one aging.  Give it a try.  Ant knows his stuff here.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: bluesman on August 26, 2010, 01:45:34 PM
Early records idicate a Brittish IPA variety of beer named October beer, a pale well-hopped brew popular among the landed classes, brewed domestically; once brewed it was intended to cellar two years.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: vista on August 26, 2010, 01:50:21 PM
That's what I figured...I wasn't disagreeing...just...well...WOAH...

i had heard of EIPAs aging, but never 18 months, let alone 2 years....time to buy another carboy.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: denny on August 26, 2010, 03:54:15 PM
This is an English IPA, not an Americna hop bomb.  I have one aging.  Give it a try.  Ant knows his stuff here.

Indeed!  An Ant, it's great to have you here!
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: skyler on September 08, 2010, 08:08:06 PM
There are two styles called EIPA: the kind of beer that BJCP describes, and the kind you actually see in most pubs in England. I heartily prefer the latter.

Most beers I've had called "IPA" in England were straw to light amber in color (4-8 SRM, or thereabouts), 3-6% ABV (typically about 4.5%), light-medium bodied, floral, and smoothly-bittered. This is not what the BJCP guidelines indicate, and so I consider the BCJP wrong with regards to this style - or at least they tend to describe American-made English-style IPAs or "English Export IPAs," rather than beers called "IPA" in England. That being said, I recently brewed a beer along these lines: 4.6% ABV, pale in color (7 SRM), floral and balanced towards the hops. I just tapped it, and it's great. I say you don't really "need" English hops, just as long as you stay away from the really piney/citrusy American hops. Nugget/Willamette was a good combo for me (I even threw in a pinch of Cascade, and I don't think it made it taste any less authentic). I think a FWH addition, a 5 min addition, a flameout addition, and a light dry-hop addition is what you need (and you could probably keep out the FWH addition). I used S-04 in this last one, but I'm sure most English yeasts would be fine. I Burtonized my water, which I think is a good rule of thumb. Shoot for dry to medium-bodied (hint: not more than 10% crystal). I would give it long enough to clear, then cold crash, if you can (English beers really ought to be brilliantly clear, even if dry-hopped). Clarity is another place where choosing the right yeast can save you some time. S-04, 1098, or 1099 would be my first choices.



Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: gordonstrong on September 08, 2010, 08:14:02 PM
Quote
That being said, I recently brewed a beer along these lines: 4.6% ABV, pale in color (7 SRM), floral and balanced towards the hops.

So how is that different than an English pale ale?
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: bluesman on September 08, 2010, 09:34:39 PM
Most beers I've had called "IPA" in England were straw to light amber in color (4-8 SRM, or thereabouts), 3-6% ABV (typically about 4.5%), light-medium bodied, floral, and smoothly-bittered.

Which examples are you referring to?
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: The Professor on September 08, 2010, 09:55:41 PM
Burtonise the liquor.
Floor malted Maris Otter pale malt only (low colour if you want to be authentic).
No other malts.
Perhaps a little sugar in the grist - up to 10%.
English hops  - I suggest Kent Goldings - lots of them, but keep it balanced. (OG 1.070, 50 IBUs - or thereabouts)
English ale yeast that ferments dry - Nottingham is pretty reliable
Age for 18 months, and then dry hop.


Yes! 
That's the way to go, and pretty much how I've done it for years.  I don't think I've ever aged it for 18 months...usually more like 12.
But  it's worth the wait, and that wait is  a good excuse to brew it regularly.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: anthayes on September 09, 2010, 11:45:13 AM
Quote
That being said, I recently brewed a beer along these lines: 4.6% ABV, pale in color (7 SRM), floral and balanced towards the hops.

So how is that different than an English pale ale?

It fits CAMRA's definition of a Golden Ale better I think:

"Golden ales are pale amber, gold, yellow or straw coloured with powerful aroma hop, low to strong bitterness, light to medium body and a strong hop character, often with citrus fruit tastes creating a refreshing character. There should be little or no malt character or diacetyl (toffee/butterscotch).

Original gravity: less than 1053
Typical alcohol by volume: less than 5.3%
Final gravity 1006 – 1012
Bitterness 20 - 45 EBU"

There is a group of English beers, which their brewers call IPAs, which fit better into CAMRA's Golden Ale style description, I think. Examples are Greene King IPA and Deuchers IPA.

Ant Hayes
Tonbridge, Kent
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: jeffy on September 09, 2010, 01:34:13 PM
Quote
Bitterness 20 - 45 EBU"
What's EBU?  English bittering unit?  Estimated bittering unit? Eastkentgolding bittering unit?
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: jeffy on September 09, 2010, 03:41:52 PM
WIKI says, "European Bittering Unit, should be the same as IBU"
If it's the same, why are there two names?
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: dak0415 on September 09, 2010, 03:50:11 PM
Because they're British and part of the EU.  That's why they mash in degrees Celsius and use EBC for colour.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: skyler on September 09, 2010, 05:21:52 PM
So how is that different than an English pale ale?


Beers dubbed, "IPA" that I came across in London were typically lighter in color than the other bitters available on cask (presumably the caramel coloring agent was simply kept out), and they contained significantly more hop flavor and aroma. I thought of them as "floral bitters." It was really not a huge leap away from other English bitters, and so I actually used the style guidelines for Best Bitter (keeping to the paler, hoppier end of the style), when I wanted to brew this beer recently.

When I was living in England (2004), I hadn't really started appreciating very bitter beers, but I was pretty enthralled with those IPAs that I found in London. Unfortunately, I do not remember the names of these beers (I wasn't a homebrewer at the time), but I remember Greene King (3.6% ABV) as being by far the most common "IPA" I found. If you notice there are plenty of IPA's exported to the US in bottles and they tend to be around 5% ABV, but the bottled "export" versions of most English ales are about 1% ABV stronger than the standard cask ale equivalent. I think of 5.5% ABV as the highest amount of alcohol that would be within the realm of a typical English IPA. The entire time I was in England, including subsequent trips, I never saw a beer on cask that was over 6% ABV - I realize they exist, but they have got to be pretty atypical, because I've looked and never found one.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: jeffy on September 09, 2010, 05:40:35 PM
Because they're British and part of the EU.  That's why they mash in degrees Celsius and use EBC for colour.
Those would be examples of measurements that are different from most "English" measurements.  Celsius vs. Fahrenheit, EBC vs. Degrees Lovibond.  From what I read, EBU's and IBU's are the same, which is why I asked why there would be two names.  If an IBU of 35 is the same as an EBU of 35, why call it by a different name just because you're overseas?
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: tschmidlin on September 09, 2010, 05:48:11 PM
Because they're British and part of the EU.  That's why they mash in degrees Celsius and use EBC for colour.
Those would be examples of measurements that are different from most "English" measurements.  Celsius vs. Fahrenheit, EBC vs. Degrees Lovibond.  From what I read, EBU's and IBU's are the same, which is why I asked why there would be two names.  If an IBU of 35 is the same as an EBU of 35, why call it by a different name just because you're overseas?
From wikipedia:
"However, the exact process of determining EBU and IBU values differs slightly, which may in theory result with slightly smaller values for EBU than IBU."

But that's just wikipedia :)
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: anthayes on September 09, 2010, 09:03:06 PM
Because they're British and part of the EU.  That's why they mash in degrees Celsius and use EBC for colour.
Those would be examples of measurements that are different from most "English" measurements.  Celsius vs. Fahrenheit, EBC vs. Degrees Lovibond.  From what I read, EBU's and IBU's are the same, which is why I asked why there would be two names.  If an IBU of 35 is the same as an EBU of 35, why call it by a different name just because you're overseas?

Europe uses metric.

England uses a mix of metric and imperial - bit of a mess really.

and never underestimate the power of pigheadedness in choosing and sticking to names...
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: euge on September 10, 2010, 06:06:46 AM
Oh it isn't limited to Britain. I had a jeep once that came stock with both metric and standard bolts- sometimes on the same part! We need to take the plunge and accept Standard International Units completely.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: hopfenundmalz on September 15, 2010, 12:11:29 AM
On the English IPA thinking.  I am drinking one I made last Sept. based on a Whitbread circa 1900 recipe that Kristen England posted on the "Shut Up About Barley Perkins" blog by Ron Pattinson.

This has turned out be be a drinker!  The last round of dry hops make it a really good IPA.  Ant Hayes is right, these benefit from aging.  One other thing, the SO4 was only about 275 for this one.

There were 2 Oz willamette and then later 2 oz styrian goldings for dry hops after aging for one year.

2009 Whitbread IPA circa 1900
A ProMash Recipe Report
Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (Gal):        11.50    Wort Size (Gal):   11.50
Total Grain (Lbs):       27.00
Anticipated OG:          1.074    Plato:             17.98
Anticipated SRM:           5.7
Anticipated IBU:          66.1
Brewhouse Efficiency:       83 %
Wort Boil Time:             95    Minutes

Formulas Used
--
Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used:   Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Tinseth
Tinseth Concentration Factor: 1.00

Grain/Extract/Sugar

   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 100.0    27.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row)              Great Britain  1.038      3

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops

   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  7.00 oz.    Goldings - E.K.                   Whole    4.18  37.6  85 min.
  5.00 oz.    Goldings - E.K.                   Whole    4.14  24.5  55 min.
  4.00 oz.    Goldings - E.K.                   Whole    4.14   4.0  5 min.


Yeast
-----

WYeast 1028 London Ale


Mash Type: Single Step

Grain Lbs:   27.00
Water Qts:   33.75 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal:    8.44 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 1.25 - Before Additional Infusions

Saccharification Rest Temp :   151  Time:   60
Mash-out Rest Temp :           168  Time:   10


Total Mash Volume Gal: 10.60 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.



Notes
-----

Loss function on the Goldings at 16 months.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: The Professor on September 15, 2010, 01:08:13 AM
On the English IPA thinking.  I am drinking one I made last Sept. based on a Whitbread circa 1900 recipe that Kristen England posted on the "Shut Up About Barley Perkins" blog by Ron Pattinson.

This has turned out be be a drinker!  The last round of dry hops make it a really good IPA.  Ant Hayes is right, these benefit from aging.  One other thing, the SO4 was only about 275 for this one.

There were 2 Oz willamette and then later 2 oz styrian goldings for dry hops after aging for one year.

Well there you go. 
I feel validated now, since I've been extolling the joys of a well aged IPA here and elsewhere for years.  To me, the aging is one of the things that  define IPA. 

I somehow missed the entry on the "Shut Up about..." blog covering the Whitbread IPA, but it's interesting that the formula you cite --the one  Kristen contributed to Ron's excellent blog-- compares quite well to the specs of my beloved Ballantine IPA.  The OG reported is in the same ballpark, the IBUs were similar (though perhaps slightly higher on the Ballantine version), and the aging period for the beer (in wood) was one full year at the Newark brewery (and even when the brand initially moved to Cranston, RI). 
The intense aromatics of the Ballantine would reflect the late dry hopping (and in their case, liberal use of distilled hop aromatics).

Seems to me that the similarities to the Whitbread would confirm that Ballantine was indeed telling the truth about their IPA being brewed from an authentic British recipe.   Apparently all of their products got a bit of a makeover when their new brewmaster arrived from Scotland after the repeal of prohibition. 
All I can say is, "...he done good..."
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: hopfenundmalz on September 15, 2010, 01:32:33 AM
Professor, after brewing this, I was reading about Ballantines IPA, and came to a the conclusion that it was similar.   If you have  a good recipe. please post it.  I have seen Jeff Renners take on the HBD, so any other information is welcome.  Just so you know, I am of the age to have been drinking Ballantines IPA in the 1975 time frame.  My intoduction to the IPA category and hop flavor.

Another one that is similar is the classic SSoS.  Brewed it several times, but never aged it.  The last few pints of the batch were excellent, though. 
http://www.realbeer.com/hops/sister.html

You will note the similarities to this one, and I think it is very cool that a SSoS type recipe is still winning awards after all of these years.
 http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/BlitzkriegHops
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: markaberrant on September 20, 2010, 05:21:44 PM
Professor, after brewing this, I was reading about Ballantines IPA, and came to a the conclusion that it was similar.   If you have  a good recipe. please post it.  I have seen Jeff Renners take on the HBD, so any other information is welcome.  Just so you know, I am of the age to have been drinking Ballantines IPA in the 1975 time frame.  My intoduction to the IPA category and hop flavor.

Another one that is similar is the classic SSoS.  Brewed it several times, but never aged it.  The last few pints of the batch were excellent, though. 
http://www.realbeer.com/hops/sister.html

You will note the similarities to this one, and I think it is very cool that a SSoS type recipe is still winning awards after all of these years.
 http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/BlitzkriegHops

Yes, I certainly borrowed from the SSoS recipe.  I tried getting in touch with Dave Brockton to thank him, but couldn't find a current contact.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: bluesman on September 20, 2010, 05:30:57 PM

Well there you go. 
I feel validated now, since I've been extolling the joys of a well aged IPA here and elsewhere for years.  To me, the aging is one of the things that  define IPA. 

I somehow missed the entry on the "Shut Up about..." blog covering the Whitbread IPA, but it's interesting that the formula you cite --the one  Kristen contributed to Ron's excellent blog-- compares quite well to the specs of my beloved Ballantine IPA.  The OG reported is in the same ballpark, the IBUs were similar (though perhaps slightly higher on the Ballantine version), and the aging period for the beer (in wood) was one full year at the Newark brewery (and even when the brand initially moved to Cranston, RI). 
The intense aromatics of the Ballantine would reflect the late dry hopping (and in their case, liberal use of distilled hop aromatics).

Seems to me that the similarities to the Whitbread would confirm that Ballantine was indeed telling the truth about their IPA being brewed from an authentic British recipe.   Apparently all of their products got a bit of a makeover when their new brewmaster arrived from Scotland after the repeal of prohibition. 
All I can say is, "...he done good..."

Would you care to share your clone recipe of Ballantine?
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: hopfenundmalz on September 20, 2010, 06:20:54 PM
Yes, I certainly borrowed from the SSoS recipe.  I tried getting in touch with Dave Brockton to thank him, but couldn't find a current contact.

Mark,

I remember that he went to Europe on a post-Doc or teaching position.  That was back in the 90's.  Oh, this may help a little, but seems to be a dead end.  You may have found it already.
http://www.hbd.org/brewery/taproom/About.html

Jeff
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: The Professor on September 20, 2010, 07:07:19 PM


Would you care to share your clone recipe of Ballantine?

I intend to do that, definitely. 
In the meantime, the formula given in the recent BYO article looks to be a fairly good starting point and  is remarkably in sync with one of the recipes I came up with independently. Which brings me to...

The only problem I have in posting my own take on it really is deciding which one to post...I've played around with formulas for this brew for a very long time (the original was in fact still being made when I first started to try and clone it).   As a result,  oddly enough I have come up with at least 4 distinctly different formulations that (to me anyway) come very close to the character of the brew that I drank so much of in the late 60's/early 70's.  Some of the experiments stay fairly close to what I have been able to turn up about the original beer, and other stabs at it definitely stray from the original formula and yet still manage to recreate the character pretty convincingly. 
However the two constants (and absolute musts) for truly recreating this beer, are the year of aging and the combination dry hopping and dosing with distilled aromatic hop oil that happens in the final month or two of the long aging.   It still impresses me that a large brewery gave so much attention 40-50 years ago to what was certainly a niche product for them...and that the new commercial brewers have only fairly recently turned attention to proper, long aging of certain beers.

In any case, I  am also working on an extended and  fairly in-depth piece that discusses this beer at length ...hopefully  it will find its way into print somewhere eventually.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: boulderbrewer on September 22, 2010, 04:49:46 AM
Thanks Al for your insight, I might have enough clues now. Ron has an award winning PA recipe that should give some insight to the brewers looking for tips.

For the rest. You have to read alot and then read alot to get where you are headed. Don't forget to listen.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: roguejim on September 28, 2010, 09:47:15 AM
When you talk about aging an EIPA for 12-18 months, are we talking in tertiary?  Carboy?  Keg?
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: anthayes on September 28, 2010, 11:36:41 AM
Aging is advised for both EIPAs and WIPAs. Modern British practice is to age in stainless - corny or sankey kegs mainly. Anything airtight, light shielding and infection resistant will do.

You could call it "secondary" although not much fermentation takes place. Conditioning is the term that I would use.

The big question is warm or cold conditioning. I condition at -1°C as this improves colloidal stability and reduces risk of off flavours growing, however there are arguments for room temperature conditioning in terms of greater flavour development (remembering that it does not get that hot in Britain - perhaps up to 25°C indoors in summer).

Ant Hayes
Tonbridge, Kent
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: seajellie on October 31, 2012, 12:03:25 AM
So it's been two years now... how did those two year old aging EIPAs turn out?

Or did you drink them all already!

Great bits of info in this thread. Been pondering an EIPA, as a have a load of EKG flower hops, and lots of Styrian Goldings which I understand as being transplanted Fuggles.  Glad to see Jeff's post up higher about dry hopping with SG. Also have some very healthy Wyeast 1469 (W Yorkshire) to harvest.

EIPA looks like a good style to make a big batch of, to make sure you can actually keep a few gallons in reserve for two years! But I can squeeze just six kegs into my fridge, so this will have to age in the cellar, 55 - 70 over the year.

Am thinking that I'd trend towards the lighter (colorwise) type, rather than one with lots of mid crystal malt. One reason is I'm making an ESB anyway with lots of cara 60; other is, I seem to prefer less of the mid and upper crystal malts in IPA-hoppy beers. Sometimes a lot of big crystal in IPAs works for me, sometimes not.

Anyway, any advice or recipes welcome. Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 31, 2012, 12:10:04 AM
Mine have been good. I have some now that were dry hopped after aging. Love it.

Got a small shock when I hit this thread. Saw Ant Hayes just above. Wow, that was a shock.

There will be the CoC named for Ant next month, my club is running the judging. Ant committed suicide a little less than 2 years back IIRC. A very sad time that was.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: seajellie on October 31, 2012, 12:49:12 AM
man, sorry for yours and everyone else's loss.  And sorry to be an unfortunate reminder.

I actually live in Ann Arbor. Will look up the AABG.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: troybinso on October 31, 2012, 04:18:12 AM
I'm brewing my first attempt at an English IPA tomorrow, with a recipe based on the Meantime IPA recipe listed in the IPA book by Mitch Steele. It sure takes a lot of hops to make this beer, so I guess I can understand why you would want to age it. I am making a 10 gallon batch split in two carboys. I am hoping to age one kind of briefly and start drinking it in a couple of months and then save the other one for posterity. I don't bottle often anymore, but I wonder if I can bottle this beer for aging. I am not sure I can spare a keg full of beer for a couple of years. I suppose I would lose the fresh dry hop aroma if I bottled, though. Sorry, rambling a bit.
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: troybinso on October 31, 2012, 04:23:22 AM
Oh by the way, half will get WY 1968 and half will get WY 1099. Which one should I save for long term aging?
Title: Re: English IPA tips
Post by: seajellie on November 16, 2012, 10:40:09 PM
Can You Brew It does a pretty good session on Meantime IPA, with a 30 min or so interview w/ the brew master, an American guy. The business starts about 15 minutes in.

Meantime is bottle-conditioned, so you certainly can bottle it up to age it; sounds like the owner wants this brand as an authentic representation of history, so go for it.  Meantime comes in a cork bottle btw, so it definitely gets oxidized at least as much as your bottles will get.

How'd your brew session go? I plan to do a ten gallon batch here soon as well, and leave five in a keg for as long as I can stand, and drink the other immediately. Sounds like they hit this beer with every technique possible: FWH, bittering, late adds/whirlpooling, hop back, and dry hop. Although the only Meantimes that I've had, had very little aroma - probably old. I plan to hit my aged keg up with a dry hop when the time comes to drink it.

I kind of like that idea for american styles too. I'm going to let my IIPAs age a bit this season in keg, and then hit them with the dry hops when I think they're ready. Usually, I just dry hop and start drinking, maybe before the beer is really perfected....