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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: kvp on August 21, 2010, 01:04:24 AM

Title: Grain substitution recommendations.....
Post by: kvp on August 21, 2010, 01:04:24 AM
Hello all,
My inventory was wrong and I don't have aromatic or biscuit for the Ofest I wanted to brew tomorrow.
Any suggestions on alternates?
The recipe only calls for .13 lb of each (that's ~2 oz ea).
I'm thinking Victory in place of the aromatic.
Maybe marris otter for the biscuit. That's a long shot I think.

Thanks, Kevin
Title: Re: Grain substitution recommendations.....
Post by: joeysmokedporter on August 21, 2010, 01:12:54 AM
Melanoidin malt would be a good substitution for the aromatic but I'm guessing this is a long shot.  If you have significant Munich and Vienna malt in your grain bill (on the order of 30% each), a good German pilsner malt for most of the rest, and 3/4 to 1 lb of Caramunich, you are likely ok without the aromatic.

Haven't used biscuit in an Octoberfest before and this might be another you can skip.
Title: Re: Grain substitution recommendations.....
Post by: Hokerer on August 21, 2010, 01:15:40 AM
Hello all,
My inventory was wrong and I don't have aromatic or biscuit for the Ofest I wanted to brew tomorrow.
Any suggestions on alternates?
The recipe only calls for .13 lb of each (that's ~2 oz ea).
I'm thinking Victory in place of the aromatic.
Maybe marris otter for the biscuit. That's a long shot I think.

Thanks, Kevin

Actually Victory and Biscuit are essentially the same malt so that would be your sub there.  Not sure what you'd use in place of the Aromatic.
Title: Re: Grain substitution recommendations.....
Post by: majorvices on August 21, 2010, 01:44:51 AM
I don't personally think you need either of those malts for an o'fest. Care to post the recipe so we can have a gander?
Title: Re: Grain substitution recommendations.....
Post by: richardt on August 21, 2010, 01:48:59 AM
Munich and/or Vienna
2-Row
Pils
Crystal

These 4 grains are all you'd need, but VMO beers can be enhanced with carapils (<10%), wheat (<3%), chocolate (<1%).
Depending on your grain bill, you:
Might want v. small amts of carapils or wheat
Might want a v. v. small (1 oz.) amt of chocolate malt (for color).
Title: Re: Grain substitution recommendations.....
Post by: kvp on August 21, 2010, 01:52:51 AM
Thanks all, keep it coming. That's how we learn.

45.8% pils
50% munich
2.1% caramunich
1% biscuit
1% aromatic

2oz tettnager
WLP820
Title: Re: Grain substitution recommendations.....
Post by: wingnut on August 21, 2010, 02:33:55 AM
I think the bicuit and aromatic additions are small enough that you can just bump up the munich a bit, or possibly do a small decoction, and come out OK  The munich and aromatic are very close to same. The aromatic has a slightly different process than the munich (or melenoiden), and if you do single decoction of about 8 cups of the solid part of the mash (for a 12 lb grain bill), you will make up for the process difference between the munich and aromatic, and probably wind up with a better beer.

(If you want, leave the biscuit and aromatic out and do a double decoction...since that looks like what they have been added to simulate)

Another thought would be to sub some brittish two row for the pils to make up for the biscuit, but I am unsure what percentage exchange would work, and bump up the munich and caramunich to make up for the aromatic.   

Good luck!. 
Title: Re: Grain substitution recommendations.....
Post by: majorvices on August 21, 2010, 09:35:03 AM
Now, if it were me I would go with a near 100% vienna grain bill, or a blend of heavy Vienna with maybe 10-20% Munich. I might add a small amount of caravienne or a 40L caramunich. If I were feeling adventurous I would consider pulling two decocotions, but you certainly wouldn't need them. If I wanted it a hair darker I might add a small amount of carafa special.

But in your case with the grains you have you could go with something like 50 percent Munich, 40-45 percent pils and 5-10% caramunich. A double decoction wouldn't hurt and might give your beer than special "Oooomph", but again, you certainly don't have to.
Title: Re: Grain substitution recommendations.....
Post by: dmtaylor on August 22, 2010, 02:29:41 AM
+1 to majorvices' good advice.

And +1 to no biscuit malt in an Ofest.  No way Hozay.
Title: Re: Grain substitution recommendations.....
Post by: bluesman on August 22, 2010, 03:19:16 AM
I agree as well, Biscuit has no business in an Ofest.  I like to blend Vienna/Munich/Pils with a dash of caramunich.

Like this...

Spangler Oktoberfest #3
Oktoberfest/Marzen

 
Type: All Grain
Date: 7/26/2010
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
 
Ingredients
 
Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.50 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 40.91 %
3.50 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 31.82 %
2.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 18.18 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.55 %
0.30 lb Caramunich Malt 1 (43.0 SRM) Grain 2.73 %
0.12 lb Caramunich Malt 2 (60.0 SRM) Grain 1.09 %
0.08 lb Caramunich Malt 3 (120.0 SRM) Grain 0.73 %
0.60 oz Magnum [12.50 %] (60 min) Hops 22.1 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer [3.90 %] (15 min) Hops 2.8 IBU
0.50 oz Spalter [4.10 %] (10 min) Hops 2.4 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer [3.90 %] (5 min) Hops 1.1 IBU
0.50 oz Spalter [4.10 %] (0 min) Hops - 
1 Pkgs German Lager (White Labs #WLP830) [Starter 6000 ml] Yeast-Lager 

 
 
Beer Profile
 
Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.052 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.48 %
Bitterness: 28.5 IBU
Est Color: 9.5 SRM 
 
 
Mash Profile
 
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body Total Grain Weight: 11.00 lb
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
 
Single Infusion, Medium Body Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Mash In Add 16.00 qt of water at 164.3 F 154.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 16.00 qt of water at 187.4 F 168.0 F 
 
Notes
 
1. Prepared 6L Yeast Starter from WLP830 - pitched @ 46F and fermented at 50F 
Created with BeerSmith

I plan to keep on the yeast until it bottoms out and then transfer into the keg for 6 weeks of lagering.


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