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General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: ndcube on November 17, 2009, 07:08:02 am

Title: Orval Clone
Post by: ndcube on November 17, 2009, 07:08:02 am
Does anyone have an Orval clone?
Title: Re: Orval Clone
Post by: denny on November 17, 2009, 09:33:58 am
Here's a good place to start...

Title: Re: Orval Clone
Post by: brandon on November 17, 2009, 12:08:31 pm
Does anyone have an Orval clone?

Charlie P has posted one before and Jamil has too. I dont think it is 100% brett too
Title: Re: Orval Clone
Post by: narvin on November 17, 2009, 12:40:18 pm
Here's my recipe... based on as much info I could find out there from BLAM and otherwise.


A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics

Batch Size (Gal):         5.75    Wort Size (Gal):    5.75
Total Grain (Lbs):       11.00
Anticipated OG:          1.055    Plato:             13.46
Anticipated SRM:           7.8
Anticipated IBU:          37.0
Brewhouse Efficiency:       77 %
Wort Boil Time:             75    Minutes


   %     Amount     Name                          Origin        Potential SRM
 36.4     4.00 lbs. Pilsener                      Belgium        1.037      2
 36.4     4.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row)              Belgium        1.037      3
 13.6     1.50 lbs. Candy Syrup (Clear)                          1.031      0
  9.1     1.00 lbs. CaraVienne Malt               Belgium        1.034     22
  4.5     0.50 lbs. CaraMunich 45                Belgium        1.034     45

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


   Amount     Name                              Form    Alpha  IBU  Boil Time
  1.50 oz.    Hallertauer                          Pellet   4.00  21.3  60 min.
  1.00 oz.    Styrian Goldings                  Pellet   5.50  11.8  20 min.
  1.00 oz.    Styrian Goldings                  Pellet   5.50   3.9  5 min.
  1.50 oz.    Styrian Goldings                  Pellet   5.50   0.0  Dry Hop


White Labs WLP510 Bastogne

Water Profile

Profile:           Orval
Profile known for:

Calcium(Ca):          96.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg):         4.0 ppm
Sodium(Na):            5.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4):         25.0 ppm
Chloride(Cl):         13.0 ppm
biCarbonate(HCO3):   287.0 ppm

pH: 8.34

Mash Schedule

Mash Name: Orval

Total Grain Lbs:    9.50
Total Water Qts:   15.10 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:    3.77 - Before Additional Infusions

Tun Thermal Mass:   0.05
Grain Temp:        72.00 F

                     Step   Rest   Start   Stop  Heat     Infuse   Infuse  Infuse
Step Name            Time   Time   Temp    Temp  Type     Temp     Amount  Ratio
sacc1                  0     60    145     143   Infuse   155       15.10   1.59
sacc2                  0     20    162     161   Infuse   209        6.87   2.31
sparge (batch)         0      0    170     170   Infuse   184       15.35   3.93

Total Water Qts:           37.32 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal:            9.33 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal:     10.09 - After Additional Infusions

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.

Dry hops, 2 bottles of Orval dregs added to secondary

Title: Re: Orval Clone
Post by: ndcube on November 17, 2009, 12:58:42 pm
Narvin,  A few questions.

How was the mash pH with the amount of bicarbonates in the water?  Did you use lactic acid?

I just had the pleasure of sampling this and it tasted pretty dry.  Will the Brett eat the caramalts and dry the beer out?

Did you add the dregs directly from the bottles or did you culture them up first?

Title: Re: Orval Clone
Post by: narvin on November 17, 2009, 01:38:55 pm
I didn't use acid, but I only added enough Calcium Carbonate (chalk) to the mash to get the bicarbonates up to maybe 150 - 200 ppm. My pH was higher than normal but still in the 5.4-5.8 range (at room temp).  I think the high level of bicarbonates contribute to the dry mouthfeel.  Because of the Brett and the very fermentable mash schedule, my FG was around 1.006.

I added the dregs directly from bottles.  The Orval bugs worked pretty fast... there was some serious barnyard funk after only a couple of weeks.

Edit: According to my notes it got down to about 1.004 after bottle conditioning for a while.
Title: Re: Orval Clone
Post by: ndcube on November 17, 2009, 01:53:13 pm
I wondered what the FG of Orval was while I was drinking it but I wasn't about to de-gas my one precious bottle.  I'll have to get more next time.
Title: Re: Orval Clone
Post by: beer_crafter on November 17, 2009, 08:11:51 pm
Listen to me...
If you can get your hands on Wyeast Trappist Blend yeast (WY3789), THIS is what you want to use to ferment your beer.

I've made almost the identical recipe two years in a row.  The first year I used WLP510 in primary, and then in secondary, I used WLP650 Brettanomyces bruxellensis.  I let it sit for months, waiting for the funk to arrive.  The brett fermented out the beer quite low, my FG was like 1.004, but the funk I got was minimal to non-existent.

This year I used WY3789 which is a blend of saccaromyces and brett.... and after a month fermenting, I bottled it and it has all the classic notes of orval.  The FUNK!  It's unreal.  I have heard from others to use Orval dregs, and I have to admit, I've never done it.  If I couldn't find WY3789, I'd probably go with dregs before I pitched a pure brett culture. 

Here's my recipe:  NOTE: It's a 3 gallon batch. 

Y'allVal half batch
Belgian Specialty Ale
Type: All Grain
Date: 9/13/2009
Batch Size: 3.00 gal
Brewer: James A. Shamas
Boil Size: 4.00 gal Asst Brewer: 
Boil Time: 60 min  Equipment: Stove Top with 5 gallon Cooler 
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 lb Pilsner (Weyermann) (1.7 SRM) Grain 80.00 %
0.75 lb Caramunich II (Weyermann) (63.0 SRM) Grain 12.00 %
0.50 lb Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 8.00 %
0.50 oz Tettnang [4.20 %] (60 min) Hops 15.7 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, US [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 16.8 IBU
0.50 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (15 min) Hops 5.4 IBU
0.50 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (0 min) Hops - 
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] (Dry Hop 3 days) Hops - 

1 Pkgs Wyeast Trappist Blend (Orval) Yeast-Ale 

Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.058 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.058 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.017 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.011 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.37 %  Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.13 %
Bitterness: 37.8 IBU Calories: 258 cal/pint
Est Color: 11.1 SRM Color: Color 
Mash Profile
Mash Name: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge Total Grain Weight: 5.75 lb
Sparge Water: 2.69 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH
Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 8.00 qt of water at 166.7 F 149.0 F

Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).

8 qt mash. 3 qts top up water. 8 qts sparge.
10.18.09. Perfect 
Title: Re: Orval Clone
Post by: boulderbrewer on November 17, 2009, 08:36:08 pm
Here is one.