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General Category => Beer Recipes => Topic started by: pete b on February 20, 2020, 02:16:48 pm

Title: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: pete b on February 20, 2020, 02:16:48 pm
I want to make something similar but I am committed to using up a bunch of 2 row pale malt I have from my local maltster, Valley Malt. Normally I believe one would use 100% Golden Promise. I am wondering if I should add anything to my pale malt, which is described thusly:
 SRM: 3.5
Protein: 9.5%
CG Extract: 81%
Flavor: Clean, malty, bread crumb.

I was thinking a tiny bit, like 1% black malt for color.
I am using WY1469, Stryian Goldings, and EKG.
I figure ferment high sixties, pushing 70.

Mostly I am wondering if I should add a little specialty malt to this. I don't have much or any recent experience with Golden Promise and am concerned I am missing what it might bring.
Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: BrewBama on February 20, 2020, 05:57:30 pm
If you’re not using GP I think the taste will be a bit different than TT.

Since you’ll be a bit off there anyway, why not just go your own way and add some English Med or Dark Crystal to your base. Plenty of Bitters have Pale Malt and some Crystal.


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Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: pete b on February 21, 2020, 05:49:43 am
If you’re not using GP I think the taste will be a bit different than TT.

Since you’ll be a bit off there anyway, why not just go your own way and add some English Med or Dark Crystal to your base. Plenty of Bitters have Pale Malt and some Crystal.


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I am thinking that may be the way to go. I just don’t want to overdo the sweetness. The reason that TT is my inspiration is that it has great body for a 4.3% beer without too much sweetness. I am not looking to clone, just want those attributes even if the taste isn’t the same.
Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: Northern_Brewer on February 23, 2020, 07:39:45 am
Since you’ll be a bit off there anyway, why not just go your own way and add some English Med or Dark Crystal to your base. Plenty of Bitters have Pale Malt and some Crystal.

But Yorkshire bitters don't have much crystal, certainly not dark crystal - they're much drier than southern bitters, and generally much more minerally, be generous with the gypsum. If you look at pictures on Untappd (https://untappd.com/b/timothy-taylor-s-landlord/8676/photos), particularly of the cask version, you'll see how pale Landlord is.

See this piece (http://edsbeer.blogspot.com/2018/11/a-visit-to-timothy-taylors-brewery.html) for some more insight on how they do things at the brewery - there's also a nice video from the brewery kicking round YouTube.
Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: jeffy on February 23, 2020, 08:17:57 am
Since you’ll be a bit off there anyway, why not just go your own way and add some English Med or Dark Crystal to your base. Plenty of Bitters have Pale Malt and some Crystal.

But Yorkshire bitters don't have much crystal, certainly not dark crystal - they're much drier than southern bitters, and generally much more minerally, be generous with the gypsum. If you look at pictures on Untappd (https://untappd.com/b/timothy-taylor-s-landlord/8676/photos), particularly of the cask version, you'll see how pale Landlord is.

See this piece (http://edsbeer.blogspot.com/2018/11/a-visit-to-timothy-taylors-brewery.html) for some more insight on how they do things at the brewery - there's also a nice video from the brewery kicking round YouTube.
Thanks for sharing the tour.  It was an interesting look at the brewery.
Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 23, 2020, 08:54:52 am
Since you’ll be a bit off there anyway, why not just go your own way and add some English Med or Dark Crystal to your base. Plenty of Bitters have Pale Malt and some Crystal.

But Yorkshire bitters don't have much crystal, certainly not dark crystal - they're much drier than southern bitters, and generally much more minerally, be generous with the gypsum. If you look at pictures on Untappd (https://untappd.com/b/timothy-taylor-s-landlord/8676/photos), particularly of the cask version, you'll see how pale Landlord is.

See this piece (http://edsbeer.blogspot.com/2018/11/a-visit-to-timothy-taylors-brewery.html) for some more insight on how they do things at the brewery - there's also a nice video from the brewery kicking round YouTube.

Thanks for the tour link. The use of Invert #2 was new to me.
Title: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: BrewBama on February 23, 2020, 10:03:05 am
Since you’ll be a bit off there anyway, why not just go your own way and add some English Med or Dark Crystal to your base. Plenty of Bitters have Pale Malt and some Crystal.

But Yorkshire bitters don't have much crystal, certainly not dark crystal - they're much drier than southern bitters, and generally much more minerally, be generous with the gypsum. If you look at pictures on Untappd (https://untappd.com/b/timothy-taylor-s-landlord/8676/photos), particularly of the cask version, you'll see how pale Landlord is.

See this piece (http://edsbeer.blogspot.com/2018/11/a-visit-to-timothy-taylors-brewery.html) for some more insight on how they do things at the brewery - there's also a nice video from the brewery kicking round YouTube.

While that may be true, I was simply saying plenty of Bitters do have crystal in them. Here’s an example:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2019/12/lets-brew-1965-whitbread-w-trophy.html

It may be inaccurate based on history in Yorkshire but since the OP was not using GP anyway, and I figured since plenty of Bitters have crystal in them, just go with it.


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Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: Megary on May 06, 2022, 10:00:36 am
Bump...

Anyone familiar enough with this beer to comment on the hop usage?
Their  site  (https://www.timothytaylor.co.uk/beer/landlord) says that the hops in question are Styrian Goldings, Goldings, and Fuggles (whole leaf) but I'm not familiar with this beer at all to guess what might be used for bittering or flavor or aroma or dry hop...

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: pete b on May 06, 2022, 10:18:28 am
Bump...

Anyone familiar enough with this beer to comment on the hop usage?
Their  site  (https://www.timothytaylor.co.uk/beer/landlord) says that the hops in question are Styrian Goldings, Goldings, and Fuggles (whole leaf) but I'm not familiar with this beer at all to guess what might be used for bittering or flavor or aroma or dry hop...

Thoughts?
I have used 1oz each of East Kent Golding and Styrian Golding at 45 minutes and 1 oz each of EKG and Styrian Golding at 10 minutes for a calculated 38 IBUs. I liked it very much, brewed a few times. I would stick with that 10 minute addition and play around with your particular hop AA in brewing software to get mid to high thirties IBU. IMO that hopping resulted in a very similar hop flavor profile as TTL, which I perceive mostly as herbal and black tea. I would really try to get some EKG, at least for the 10 minute addition.
Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: jeffy on May 06, 2022, 10:33:12 am
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=11209.msg139369#msg139369
This is a link to a recipe by hopfenundmalz (Jeff) who has been to the brewery and made notes.
I also used Styrian Goldings and Sterling hops in mine.
Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: Megary on May 06, 2022, 10:40:41 am
Bump...

Anyone familiar enough with this beer to comment on the hop usage?
Their  site  (https://www.timothytaylor.co.uk/beer/landlord) says that the hops in question are Styrian Goldings, Goldings, and Fuggles (whole leaf) but I'm not familiar with this beer at all to guess what might be used for bittering or flavor or aroma or dry hop...

Thoughts?
I have used 1oz each of East Kent Golding and Styrian Golding at 45 minutes and 1 oz each of EKG and Styrian Golding at 10 minutes for a calculated 38 IBUs. I liked it very much, brewed a few times. I would stick with that 10 minute addition and play around with your particular hop AA in brewing software to get mid to high thirties IBU. IMO that hopping resulted in a very similar hop flavor profile as TTL, which I perceive mostly as herbal and black tea. I would really try to get some EKG, at least for the 10 minute addition.
Thanks for that.

I have all 3 hops that TT says they use at the ready.  (In pellet form, so there's that.)  Your suggestion is to just skip the Fuggles?  I was considering using the Fuggles early and the two Goldings late.  But I'll happily leave the Fuggles on the bench.
Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: Megary on May 06, 2022, 10:56:07 am
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=11209.msg139369#msg139369
This is a link to a recipe by hopfenundmalz (Jeff) who has been to the brewery and made notes.
I also used Styrian Goldings and Sterling hops in mine.
Thanks!
I would be interested to hear his (or anyone's) thoughts on the use of the Carastan.  I had planned on leaning only on Golden Promise (with less than 1% of Carafa for color).  Does the Carastan bring a necessary flavor or is it there for color only? 
I've seen many "clone" recipes for this beer and the target SRM's seem to fall somewhere between 5 and 9.  I was shooting for about 6-7.  Am I not coppery enough?  Internet pictures are not very helpful.  Who has a bottle on hand???   :)
Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: pete b on May 06, 2022, 11:10:36 am
I have no opinion/experience with the fuggles on this one, I was just saying that the combo I used worked well.
As to the color I like the color I have gotten with all GP except for 1% black malt. I am pretty sure I used either black prinz or midnight wheat.
Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: denny on May 06, 2022, 12:42:24 pm
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=11209.msg139369#msg139369
This is a link to a recipe by hopfenundmalz (Jeff) who has been to the brewery and made notes.
I also used Styrian Goldings and Sterling hops in mine.
Thanks!
I would be interested to hear his (or anyone's) thoughts on the use of the Carastan.  I had planned on leaning only on Golden Promise (with less than 1% of Carafa for color).  Does the Carastan bring a necessary flavor or is it there for color only? 
I've seen many "clone" recipes for this beer and the target SRM's seem to fall somewhere between 5 and 9.  I was shooting for about 6-7.  Am I not coppery enough?  Internet pictures are not very helpful.  Who has a bottle on hand???   :)

Carastan will bring flavor as well as color. It wouldn't surprise me if it was an authentic ingredient.
Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: fredthecat on May 06, 2022, 01:07:54 pm
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=11209.msg139369#msg139369
This is a link to a recipe by hopfenundmalz (Jeff) who has been to the brewery and made notes.
I also used Styrian Goldings and Sterling hops in mine.
Thanks!
I would be interested to hear his (or anyone's) thoughts on the use of the Carastan.  I had planned on leaning only on Golden Promise (with less than 1% of Carafa for color).  Does the Carastan bring a necessary flavor or is it there for color only? 
I've seen many "clone" recipes for this beer and the target SRM's seem to fall somewhere between 5 and 9.  I was shooting for about 6-7.  Am I not coppery enough?  Internet pictures are not very helpful.  Who has a bottle on hand???   :)

i had a few of them a few months ago and i was surprised how pale it was for what i expected. i'd say 6-7SRM. i think either the 99% GP 1% black malt or adding the 1lb crystal35 that hopfenundmalz noted would make a great beer. i do want to try styrian goldings in my next bitter
Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 06, 2022, 08:52:02 pm
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=11209.msg139369#msg139369
This is a link to a recipe by hopfenundmalz (Jeff) who has been to the brewery and made notes.
I also used Styrian Goldings and Sterling hops in mine.

For clarification, i haven’t  been to the brewery, or even Yorkshire. I have enjoyed many pints of it in the south of England. The brewery doesn't  do tours, and doesn't  share a lot of information.

The recipe linked id what i put together from internet searches and flavor memory.

I might drink a bunch of it when in Yorkshire this fall.
Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 06, 2022, 08:59:04 pm
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=11209.msg139369#msg139369
This is a link to a recipe by hopfenundmalz (Jeff) who has been to the brewery and made notes.
I also used Styrian Goldings and Sterling hops in mine.
Thanks!
I would be interested to hear his (or anyone's) thoughts on the use of the Carastan.  I had planned on leaning only on Golden Promise (with less than 1% of Carafa for color).  Does the Carastan bring a necessary flavor or is it there for color only? 
I've seen many "clone" recipes for this beer and the target SRM's seem to fall somewhere between 5 and 9.  I was shooting for about 6-7.  Am I not coppery enough?  Internet pictures are not very helpful.  Who has a bottle on hand???   :)

There was some speculation  on "Jim's Beer Kit", which is a British homebrew  forum, that TTL could use crystal malt made from Golden Promise barley. That would fulfill the claim of all Golden Promise. There was other speculation that the color  is from a long boil. The color I remember was very similar  to Pliny the Elder, so say SRM 7.

Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: Megary on May 07, 2022, 05:08:46 am
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=11209.msg139369#msg139369
This is a link to a recipe by hopfenundmalz (Jeff) who has been to the brewery and made notes.
I also used Styrian Goldings and Sterling hops in mine.
Thanks!
I would be interested to hear his (or anyone's) thoughts on the use of the Carastan.  I had planned on leaning only on Golden Promise (with less than 1% of Carafa for color).  Does the Carastan bring a necessary flavor or is it there for color only? 
I've seen many "clone" recipes for this beer and the target SRM's seem to fall somewhere between 5 and 9.  I was shooting for about 6-7.  Am I not coppery enough?  Internet pictures are not very helpful.  Who has a bottle on hand???   :)

There was some speculation  on "Jim's Beer Kit", which is a British homebrew  forum, that TTL could use crystal malt made from Golden Promise barley. That would fulfill the claim of all Golden Promise. There was other speculation that the color  is from a long boil. The color I remember was very similar  to Pliny the Elder, so say SRM 7.
Thanks Jeff. If TT is making crystal from GP…well that would be both brilliant and devious.   :)

Having no memory of TTL, I’m not sure why I’m trying to create a recipe inspired by it.  Fool’s errand, I suppose. 
Title: Re: Timothy Taylor's Landlord Inspired
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 07, 2022, 09:47:57 am
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=11209.msg139369#msg139369
This is a link to a recipe by hopfenundmalz (Jeff) who has been to the brewery and made notes.
I also used Styrian Goldings and Sterling hops in mine.
Thanks!
I would be interested to hear his (or anyone's) thoughts on the use of the Carastan.  I had planned on leaning only on Golden Promise (with less than 1% of Carafa for color).  Does the Carastan bring a necessary flavor or is it there for color only? 
I've seen many "clone" recipes for this beer and the target SRM's seem to fall somewhere between 5 and 9.  I was shooting for about 6-7.  Am I not coppery enough?  Internet pictures are not very helpful.  Who has a bottle on hand???   :)

There was some speculation  on "Jim's Beer Kit", which is a British homebrew  forum, that TTL could use crystal malt made from Golden Promise barley. That would fulfill the claim of all Golden Promise. There was other speculation that the color  is from a long boil. The color I remember was very similar  to Pliny the Elder, so say SRM 7.
Thanks Jeff. If TT is making crystal from GP…well that would be both brilliant and devious.   :)

Having no memory of TTL, I’m not sure why I’m trying to create a recipe inspired by it.  Fool’s errand, I suppose.
Speculation by a English Homebrewer. Long boil is another speculation.

It is a very nice pint.