Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: lobotmagic on September 10, 2020, 09:17:29 am

Title: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: lobotmagic on September 10, 2020, 09:17:29 am
Hi everybody,
this is going to be a totally stupid question for most of you... I'm a new brewer and I'm looking at a recipe for some IPA that I'd like to make, and there's no Yeast in the recipe- What am I supposed to do?
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: Bob357 on September 10, 2020, 09:30:01 am
If you post the recipe, or a link to it, it makes it much easier to recommend a yeast strain. There are many different strains that can be appropriate for IPAs.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: lobotmagic on September 10, 2020, 10:38:58 am
here is the recipe below-
Good Word Brewing Never Sleep New England IPA | American IPA

INGREDIENTS
For 5 gal (18.9 L)
6.4 lb (2.90 kg) Pilsner malt
3.25 lb (1.47 kg) English Pale malt
1.5 lb (0.68 kg) of Oat malt
14 oz (0.40 kg)Dextrose
1 oz (28 g) of Vic Secret hops (10 min)
1.5 oz (42 g) Vic Secret hops (5 min)
1.5 oz (42 g) Citra hops (5 min)
5 oz (142 g) Citra hops (whirlpool)
5 oz (142 g) Vic Secret hops (whirlpool)
8 oz (227 g) Vic Secret hops (dry hop)
8 oz (227 g) Citra hops (dry hop)
SPECIFICATIONS
Original Gravity: 1.065 (15.9 P)
Final Gravity: 1.013 (3.2 P)
ABV: 7%
IBU: 45
SRM: 3.8
DIRECTIONS
Stepped mash: 146° F for 15 minutes; 156° F for 30 minutes; mash out at 168° F for 10-15 minutes. 90 minute boil, following schedule listed in the ingredients. After boil, add whirlpool hops once wort is below 180° F to prevent isomerization of hops. Ferment at 68° F for 2 days and increase temperature by 2° F on day 3. Allow temperature to free rise to 72-73° F by day 5. Dry hop for 3 days when final gravity is within 0.5-1 Plato. Complete a diacetyl rest before cold crashing. Do this by taking a 2-4 oz sample that can be capped. Place sample in 140° F water for 20 minutes. Allow sample to come down to room temperature and test for diacetyl by smell and taste. If still present wait another 24-48 hours and retest. Only cold crash after the sample has passed the test. Crash at 32° F for 4-6 days and transfer to package.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: denny on September 10, 2020, 11:13:18 am
If you want to go liquid, Wyeast 1318 is used a lot for NEIPA.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: Bob357 on September 10, 2020, 11:31:07 am
If you prefer dry yeast, Lalbrew East Coast Ale is a good choice.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: dmtaylor on September 10, 2020, 11:32:49 am
And S-04, S-33, and Lallemand London ESB are also great choices for this recipe.

There's an enormously deep rabbit hole you can fall into here if you are interested:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/isolated-yeast-tree-house-how-to-identify-and-characterize.623221/

Welcome to the forum!!
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: Kevin on September 10, 2020, 04:44:02 pm
A word of caution... New England IPA can be difficult for many pro brewers let alone someone just starting out. If you are new to homebrewing I would suggest starting with something much simpler.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: dmtaylor on September 10, 2020, 04:54:45 pm
Ooh... I forgot to mention..... with 16 oz dry hops, there's going to be almost zero ounces of beer left to drink!  Holy moly!
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: denny on September 11, 2020, 07:56:18 am
Ooh... I forgot to mention..... with 16 oz dry hops, there's going to be almost zero ounces of beer left to drink!  Holy moly!

Not to mention it far exceeds what I call the "Shellhammer limit" and could be less effective than using fewer hops.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: EnkAMania on September 11, 2020, 09:51:33 am
I went and looked at the recipe and it does indeed say 16 ounces of dry hop.  Even if you halved that, it is more than plenty.  Maybe contact the brewery and ask if that is correct. 

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/good-word-brewing-never-sleep-new-england-ipa/
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: narvin on September 11, 2020, 10:03:30 am
To be fair, Shellhammer hasn't conducted this experiment on a New England IPA as far as I know.  Although your recipe doesn't show it, you would generally add your dry hops well before fermentation is complete.  This could be anywhere from high krausen to 8-10 points from final gravity, but definitely when you still see active fermentation.  The theory is that there are biotransformations of hop compounds into other fruity aromatics that occur when using specific yeasts.  However, on a practical level you're also losing some of the VOCs to CO2 scrubbing.

16 oz in dry hop per 5 gallons is a ton of hops, but I use 8oz regularly in this style.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: denny on September 11, 2020, 11:28:53 am
To be fair, Shellhammer hasn't conducted this experiment on a New England IPA as far as I know.  Although your recipe doesn't show it, you would generally add your dry hops well before fermentation is complete.  This could be anywhere from high krausen to 8-10 points from final gravity, but definitely when you still see active fermentation.  The theory is that there are biotransformations of hop compounds into other fruity aromatics that occur when using specific yeasts.  However, on a practical level you're also losing some of the VOCs to CO2 scrubbing.

16 oz in dry hop per 5 gallons is a ton of hops, but I use 8oz regularly in this style.

I would think his research would apply especially to NEIPA.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: narvin on September 11, 2020, 11:35:58 am
To be fair, Shellhammer hasn't conducted this experiment on a New England IPA as far as I know.  Although your recipe doesn't show it, you would generally add your dry hops well before fermentation is complete.  This could be anywhere from high krausen to 8-10 points from final gravity, but definitely when you still see active fermentation.  The theory is that there are biotransformations of hop compounds into other fruity aromatics that occur when using specific yeasts.  However, on a practical level you're also losing some of the VOCs to CO2 scrubbing.

16 oz in dry hop per 5 gallons is a ton of hops, but I use 8oz regularly in this style.

I would think his research would apply especially to NEIPA.

How so?  I'm not discounting it; however, it seems to me that adding hops after primary fermentation is a different scenario than adding them while it is ongoing.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: denny on September 11, 2020, 11:40:30 am
To be fair, Shellhammer hasn't conducted this experiment on a New England IPA as far as I know.  Although your recipe doesn't show it, you would generally add your dry hops well before fermentation is complete.  This could be anywhere from high krausen to 8-10 points from final gravity, but definitely when you still see active fermentation.  The theory is that there are biotransformations of hop compounds into other fruity aromatics that occur when using specific yeasts.  However, on a practical level you're also losing some of the VOCs to CO2 scrubbing.

16 oz in dry hop per 5 gallons is a ton of hops, but I use 8oz regularly in this style.

I would think his research would apply especially to NEIPA.

How so?  I'm not discounting it; however, it seems to me that adding hops after primary fermentation is a different scenario than adding6 them while it is ongoing.

True, you still get the tannic load from the hops.  The other theory is that the more mass you have, the more readily it will rebsorbn the oils the hops release.  That's also the theory behind a short dry hop time.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: narvin on September 11, 2020, 12:10:30 pm
To be fair, Shellhammer hasn't conducted this experiment on a New England IPA as far as I know.  Although your recipe doesn't show it, you would generally add your dry hops well before fermentation is complete.  This could be anywhere from high krausen to 8-10 points from final gravity, but definitely when you still see active fermentation.  The theory is that there are biotransformations of hop compounds into other fruity aromatics that occur when using specific yeasts.  However, on a practical level you're also losing some of the VOCs to CO2 scrubbing.

16 oz in dry hop per 5 gallons is a ton of hops, but I use 8oz regularly in this style.

I would think his research would apply especially to NEIPA.

How so?  I'm not discounting it; however, it seems to me that adding hops after primary fermentation is a different scenario than adding6 them while it is ongoing.

True, you still get the tannic load from the hops.  The other theory is that the more mass you have, the more readily it will rebsorbn the oils the hops release.  That's also the theory behind a short dry hop time.

I haven't done a true side by side either.  I have a beer about to be tapped with a similar recipe and 8oz/5 gal dry hop, which is up from 6 and 7 oz last time, so I can at least give an impression later today.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: EnkAMania on September 11, 2020, 12:38:36 pm
As far as yeast, I really like Gulo yeast from Omega.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: denny on September 11, 2020, 01:03:14 pm
To be fair, Shellhammer hasn't conducted this experiment on a New England IPA as far as I know.  Although your recipe doesn't show it, you would generally add your dry hops well before fermentation is complete.  This could be anywhere from high krausen to 8-10 points from final gravity, but definitely when you still see active fermentation.  The theory is that there are biotransformations of hop compounds into other fruity aromatics that occur when using specific yeasts.  However, on a practical level you're also losing some of the VOCs to CO2 scrubbing.

16 oz in dry hop per 5 gallons is a ton of hops, but I use 8oz regularly in this style.

I would think his research would apply especially to NEIPA.

How so?  I'm not discounting it; however, it seems to me that adding hops after primary fermentation is a different scenario than adding6 them while it is ongoing.

True, you still get the tannic load from the hops.  The other theory is that the more mass you have, the more readily it will rebsorbn the oils the hops release.  That's also the theory behind a short dry hop time.

I haven't done a true side by side either.  I have a beer about to be tapped with a similar recipe and 8oz/5 gal dry hop, which is u3p from 6 and 7 oz last time, so I can at least give an impression later today.

About 6.5 is supposedly the limit for 5 gal.  I'll be curious to see if you detect a difference.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: Iliff Ave on September 11, 2020, 03:10:18 pm
Imperial Juice, Dry Hop, Citrus
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: narvin on September 11, 2020, 08:28:59 pm
And S-04, S-33, and Lallemand London ESB are also great choices for this recipe.

There's an enormously deep rabbit hole you can fall into here if you are interested:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/isolated-yeast-tree-house-how-to-identify-and-characterize.623221/

Welcome to the forum!!

So, S-04, T-58, WB-06, and a Champagne yeast. That explains why I find Treehouse beer to be non-hoppy and a muddled mess!
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: denny on September 12, 2020, 07:38:12 am
And S-04, S-33, and Lallemand London ESB are also great choices for this recipe.

There's an enormously deep rabbit hole you can fall into here if you are interested:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/isolated-yeast-tree-house-how-to-identify-and-characterize.623221/

Welcome to the forum!!

So, S-04, T-58, WB-06, and a Champagne yeast. That explains why I find Treehouse beer to be non-hoppy and a muddled mess!

You're not the only one
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: erockrph on September 12, 2020, 08:18:45 am
And S-04, S-33, and Lallemand London ESB are also great choices for this recipe.

There's an enormously deep rabbit hole you can fall into here if you are interested:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/isolated-yeast-tree-house-how-to-identify-and-characterize.623221/

Welcome to the forum!!

So, S-04, T-58, WB-06, and a Champagne yeast. That explains why I find Treehouse beer to be non-hoppy and a muddled mess!
I'm pretty sure that its just that they use too much hops. Most of their double ipas taste like sticks and chlorophyll to me, but anything  they sell as a blond ale, pale ale, or IPA really hits the mark for me.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: dmtaylor on September 12, 2020, 08:45:08 am
And S-04, S-33, and Lallemand London ESB are also great choices for this recipe.

There's an enormously deep rabbit hole you can fall into here if you are interested:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/isolated-yeast-tree-house-how-to-identify-and-characterize.623221/

Welcome to the forum!!

So, S-04, T-58, WB-06, and a Champagne yeast. That explains why I find Treehouse beer to be non-hoppy and a muddled mess!

I'm pretty sure that its just that they use too much hops. Most of their double ipas taste like sticks and chlorophyll to me, but anything  they sell as a blond ale, pale ale, or IPA really hits the mark for me.

I've tasted some great NEIPAs, and I've tasted some that were more like chewing on hop cones than anything else... which I have done and which I do NOT recommend.  I visited the Alchemist a few years ago, and honestly was very underwhelmed by how unbalanced and unsatisfying their beers are.  I didn't get a chance to try anything low-hop like a blond, if they even make one.  Their porter/stout was just as hoppy as their NEIPAs, which is fine if you're into that sort of thing.  But I left the place feeling like, okay, I can say I've been there, but beyond that, I won't go back even if I am ever back in the area again.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on September 12, 2020, 09:26:58 am
And S-04, S-33, and Lallemand London ESB are also great choices for this recipe.

There's an enormously deep rabbit hole you can fall into here if you are interested:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/isolated-yeast-tree-house-how-to-identify-and-characterize.623221/

Welcome to the forum!!

So, S-04, T-58, WB-06, and a Champagne yeast. That explains why I find Treehouse beer to be non-hoppy and a muddled mess!

I'm pretty sure that its just that they use too much hops. Most of their double ipas taste like sticks and chlorophyll to me, but anything  they sell as a blond ale, pale ale, or IPA really hits the mark for me.

I've tasted some great NEIPAs, and I've tasted some that were more like chewing on hop cones than anything else... which I have done and which I do NOT recommend.  I visited the Alchemist a few years ago, and honestly was very underwhelmed by how unbalanced and unsatisfying their beers are.  I didn't get a chance to try anything low-hop like a blond, if they even make one.  Their porter/stout was just as hoppy as their NEIPAs, which is fine if you're into that sort of thing.  But I left the place feeling like, okay, I can say I've been there, but beyond that, I won't go back even if I am ever back in the area again.

I was excited that the wife found a B&B just up the road from Alchemist before HomebrewCon in Providence. The ones they had for sampling were some of the most astringent beers I have ever had. My wife got the Kölsch, If wasn't astringent, but had to be 55 IBU.

I did have outstanding ciders around Stow.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: narvin on September 12, 2020, 09:56:56 am
And S-04, S-33, and Lallemand London ESB are also great choices for this recipe.

There's an enormously deep rabbit hole you can fall into here if you are interested:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/isolated-yeast-tree-house-how-to-identify-and-characterize.623221/

Welcome to the forum!!

So, S-04, T-58, WB-06, and a Champagne yeast. That explains why I find Treehouse beer to be non-hoppy and a muddled mess!
I'm pretty sure that its just that they use too much hops. Most of their double ipas taste like sticks and chlorophyll to me, but anything  they sell as a blond ale, pale ale, or IPA really hits the mark for me.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

To my palate, there's a difference between Alchemist and Treehouse.  Both are heavily hopped, and Alchemist can have some hop burn when fresh, but I find Treehouse to be flaccid.

That 93 page thread also has some analysis of how many colonies of each type of yeast were found in their beers.  It varies, and is speculated that some of the simpler beers are mostly just S-04.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: dmtaylor on September 12, 2020, 10:43:36 am
I did have outstanding ciders around Stow.

They do indeed have some great ciders all around the northeast.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: pete b on September 12, 2020, 10:54:36 am
I avoid Treehouse double ipas partly because I am usually driving when I go there but find most of their regular ipas to be wonderful.
Title: Re: why is there no yeast in the recipe?
Post by: narvin on September 12, 2020, 05:38:51 pm
I avoid Treehouse double ipas partly because I am usually driving when I go there but find most of their regular ipas to be wonderful.

It's a personal preference, for sure.  On our trip last year, I liked Maine and Trillium the most for their clean, bright flavors, followed by Alchemist and Lawsons which were more aggressive but still accentuated the hops.  I know a lot of people like Treehouse specifically for the mouthfeel, but it's not my thing.