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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: Fire Rooster on September 16, 2020, 07:11:09 PM

Title: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on September 16, 2020, 07:11:09 PM
Planning to brew a Hefeweizen.
Have a good idea on grain & hops.
The yeast seems to be the most important part.

Seeking suggestions for a dry-yeast that would correctly
represent the style.

Never used liquid yeast, open for suggestions on that too.

Thank You
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: dmtaylor on September 16, 2020, 09:34:23 PM
WLP300 is the best I've used in a while.  Wyeast 3068 and Lallemand Munich Classic are supposedly equivalent.  Not the "regular" Munich, but only the Classic.

All other dried yeasts are no good for a hefeweizen in my opinion, assuming you are shooting for the German style.  I've tried several and they just don't fit the bill.

WLP380 makes a good one as well, and Wyeast 3333 should be the equivalent.

I did not have good success with Wyeast 3638, too clean.

You might find something useful in these couple of references:

https://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16XRUloO3WXqH9Ixsf5vx2DIKDmrEQJ36tLRBmmya7Jo/edit?usp=sharing
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: erockrph on September 16, 2020, 09:43:33 PM
I did not have good success with Wyeast 3638, too clean.


Interesting. WY3638/WLP351 is my go-to. It has a bit of sweet spice (vanilla-ish) to it that sets it apart from all the other Hefe strains out there. I use a smaller pitch and ferment at 64F to hit the balance I like. I haven't brewed any banana bombs with it, but that's not really what I shoot for.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: dmtaylor on September 16, 2020, 10:09:39 PM
I use a smaller pitch and ferment at 64F to hit the balance I like. I haven't brewed any banana bombs with it, but that's not really what I shoot for.

Ditto.  That's just what I did.  But I got different results.  I don't know why.  I guess I could give it another try sometime.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on September 17, 2020, 08:29:16 AM
Thanks, saved me a lot of research, will check those yeasts out.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on October 05, 2020, 10:58:15 AM
WLP300 is the best I've used in a while.  Wyeast 3068 and Lallemand Munich Classic are supposedly equivalent.  Not the "regular" Munich, but only the Classic.

All other dried yeasts are no good for a hefeweizen in my opinion, assuming you are shooting for the German style.  I've tried several and they just don't fit the bill.

WLP380 makes a good one as well, and Wyeast 3333 should be the equivalent.

I did not have good success with Wyeast 3638, too clean.

You might find something useful in these couple of references:

https://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16XRUloO3WXqH9Ixsf5vx2DIKDmrEQJ36tLRBmmya7Jo/edit?usp=sharing

Planning two Hefeweizen batches using Munich Classic dry yeast (63-72).
50% two-row, 50% White Wheat, 2020 Mt Hood dried leaf hops.

In your experience, what is the best fermentation temperature ?
I would assume the low end, if so, how low could I go ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: dmtaylor on October 05, 2020, 11:28:55 AM
Planning two Hefeweizen batches using Munich Classic dry yeast (63-72).
50% two-row, 50% White Wheat, 2020 Mt Hood dried leaf hops.

In your experience, what is the best fermentation temperature ?
I would assume the low end, if so, how low could I go ?

I was very happy with my results at 66 F (19 C), the clove and banana were in good balance, or I would even say a little more clove than banana at that point.  If you want more balance, go up a degree or two to 68 F (20 C).  And if you prefer banana, I would take it up to 72 F (22 C) but no higher than that.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: majorvices on October 05, 2020, 12:47:43 PM
This is a good batch to start with liquid yeast. As long as you are sure the yeast is fresh you should just be able to pitch one pack without worrying about a starter. Aeration also isn't as critical as less aeration may provide you with more esters.

For White Labs look at either WLP300 or WLP380. The 300 will be more "banana" ester forward while the WLP380 will have more clove and phenolic and perhaps a bit more balanced for my taste.

Wyeast 3068 is a good yeast and with Wyeast you can tell the yeast is fresh because the package "swells" when you pop the nutrient inner package.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on October 05, 2020, 02:05:37 PM
This is a good batch to start with liquid yeast. As long as you are sure the yeast is fresh you should just be able to pitch one pack without worrying about a starter. Aeration also isn't as critical as less aeration may provide you with more esters.

For White Labs look at either WLP300 or WLP380. The 300 will be more "banana" ester forward while the WLP380 will have more clove and phenolic and perhaps a bit more balanced for my taste.

Wyeast 3068 is a good yeast and with Wyeast you can tell the yeast is fresh because the package "swells" when you pop the nutrient inner package.

You might be right.  Hefeweizen yeast temps are higher than what I expected,
,and some with a very narrow temp range.  I have a few weeks to decide, thanks for feedback.
During routine blood work my potassium levels were high. Doctor smiled as if being wise
and told me to stop eating bananas, and that would fix it.  When I told him I don't like bananas
and don't eat them, he was perplexed.  I like clove so WLP380 might be more to my liking.
Wyeast-3068 looks the best to me so far based on 64-75, which gives me room for miscalculations.

LIQUID
WLP300 = 68-72, Mid-Temp 70
WLP380 = 66-70, Mid-Temp  68
Wyeast-3068 = 64-75, Mid-Temp 69.5
DRY
Munich-Classic = 63-72, Mid-Temp 67.5
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: dmtaylor on October 05, 2020, 06:05:56 PM
When I told him I don't like bananas
and don't eat them, he was perplexed.  I like clove so WLP380 might be more to my liking.
Wyeast-3068 looks the best to me so far based on 64-75, which gives me room for miscalculations.

LIQUID
WLP300 = 68-72, Mid-Temp 70
WLP380 = 66-70, Mid-Temp  68
Wyeast-3068 = 64-75, Mid-Temp 69.5
DRY
Munich-Classic = 63-72, Mid-Temp 67.5

If you don't want banana, you really do need to keep the temperatures cool, I would say 66 F or less, regardless of which strain you select.  Also to promote clove, it helps to use a tall narrow fermenter (I use a tall glass vase, literally) to increase pressure and thus help limit the formation of esters.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on October 05, 2020, 07:40:46 PM
After research and your inputs, will use Wyeast 3068 in the low 60's.
found this https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=12838.0

Thank You
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: majorvices on October 06, 2020, 02:05:39 AM
Yeah definitely keep the temp on the cool side. Agree under 66 for sure. I usually start off very low 60s. And ... uh ... of course I'm right. ;)
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on October 07, 2020, 08:58:12 PM
Yeah definitely keep the temp on the cool side. Agree under 66 for sure. I usually start off very low 60s. And ... uh ... of course I'm right. ;)

I have another batch to brew in a week or so before ordering supplies.
Changed malt, it will be 50% White Wheat, 37.5% Vienna, 12.5% Munich.
It seems Hefeweizen is a love it or hate it style, time will tell.
Of course you were right, now I get to see what liquid yeast is all about.
Since Hefeweizen is yeast dependent it was the perfect time.

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Sanatorium on October 08, 2020, 12:14:59 PM
https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/hefe-weissbier-bavarian-style/
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on October 08, 2020, 06:42:40 PM
https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/hefe-weissbier-bavarian-style/

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on October 11, 2020, 05:09:12 PM
How about aeration ?
Any special needs for liquid yeast ?

When using dry yeast,  the splashing of wort into fermenter
seems to be enough, and everything works out fine.

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: denny on October 11, 2020, 05:14:17 PM
How about aeration ?
Any special needs for liquid yeast ?

When using dry yeast,  the splashing of wort into fermenter
seems to be enough, and everything works out fine.

Thanks

Actually dry yeast needs to aeration at all.  It's manufactured so that it isn't necessary.  Liquid can benefit from it.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on October 11, 2020, 06:26:56 PM
How about aeration ?
Any special needs for liquid yeast ?

When using dry yeast,  the splashing of wort in fermenter
seems to be enough, and everything works out fine.

Thanks

Actually dry yeast needs to aeration at all.  It's manufactured so that it isn't necessary.  Liquid can benefit from it.

Would splashing of wort in fermenter be sufficient aeration ?
Or would shaking the fermenter be beneficial, for a hefeweizen
using Wyeast 3068 yeast ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: denny on October 11, 2020, 06:33:37 PM
How about aeration ?
Any special needs for liquid yeast ?

When using dry yeast,  the splashing of wort in fermenter
seems to be enough, and everything works out fine.

Thanks

Actually dry yeast needs to aeration at all.  It's manufactured so that it isn't necessary.  Liquid can benefit from it.

Would splashing of wort in fermenter be sufficient aeration ?
Or would shaking the fermenter be beneficial, for a hefeweizen
using Wyeast 3068 yeast ?

Thanks

Yeah, either of those.  If it's glass, be very careful shaking the fermenter.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on October 11, 2020, 07:01:05 PM
I use a 5.3 gallon HDPE Speidel that has 2 nice handles.

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on October 12, 2020, 08:17:12 AM
Planned Hefeweizen.
AG Batch#42, 4.25 gal

4.5 lbs Soft Red Winter Wheat
3 lbs Vienna
.5 lb Munich

FWH = 1oz Dried leaf Mt Hood hops (4.7AA)
Takes 1/2 hour to get a full boil, hops total time will be 60 minutes, then hop spider removed.

90 min mash (10 qts water, 8 lb grain)
30 min full Boil

Wyeast 3068
Approx 62 degrees


As a side note : IBU's will be lowered for brews to follow.
I've just realized the usual target IBU of 30, is overshadowing the malt.
Lower amounts of grain (ABV) are used, which makes it more easily overrun by the hops.
The plan is to have lower IBU and less hoppy beers so the grain can shine.
Subtle hop flavor and lower IBU's to complement quality grain, and not distract from it.
Not quite sure if IPA's are my preferred style or not, as of now, no.



Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Oiscout on October 18, 2020, 07:01:26 PM
I have done two 5 gallon  batches both were 7 pounds of wheat and 4 pounds of german pilsner and an ounce of Hallertau bittering at 60 minutes.

And both times I used WLP300 at about 68 degrees and I had a very nice balanced cloudy hefe that was a hit with my step dad who either drinks Miller lite or hefeweizens.  (Odd taste but I'll take the compliments from him)

Cool thing about hefes are you can do or not do so much with a pretty big temperature range and still get a kick ass smashable beer.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: YaleH on October 25, 2020, 02:00:11 AM
Just finished a Hefe and used OMEGA YEAST OYL-021 - HEFEWEIZEN ALE I it was the 1st time using this brand and I love it.... less than 12 hrs after pitching I had total blowout on my air lock and had to quickly rig up a hose/bottle rig. The Hefe turned out out with great flavor. My best batch yet!!!
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Oiscout on October 25, 2020, 02:02:00 AM
Just kegged mine! (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201025/6e39c1b25fd24e06e1332e65a5e9759a.jpg)

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Dave_in_Indiana on October 25, 2020, 01:01:22 PM
https://www.themodernbrewhouse.com/hefe-weissbier-bavarian-style/

That's a great link.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on October 29, 2020, 08:45:52 PM
Ordered and received wheat malt for Hefeweizen.
Trying for first time (I think) Soft Red Winter Wheat.
I usually go with White Wheat, Hard Red Winter Wheat is too harsh for me.

Sharing this for those who don't like wheat malt, could be the variety they get.
https://kswheat.com/news/which-wheat-for-what
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Oiscout on October 29, 2020, 10:47:36 PM
Sweet follow up with pics and how it turned out

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on October 30, 2020, 09:54:08 AM
Sweet follow up with pics and how it turned out

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Will do
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 03, 2020, 06:54:07 PM
Received today 3068, MFG 20 JUNE 2020.
Ordered with two ice packs, opened checked temp of yeast, 58 degrees.

Was hoping for a newer date, any issues ?

Brewing tomorrow morning.

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: denny on November 03, 2020, 07:03:35 PM
Received today 3068, MFG 20 JUNE 2020.
Ordered with two ice packs, opened checked temp of yeast, 58 degrees.

Was hoping for a newer date, any issues ?

Brewing tomorrow morning.

Thanks

No problem whatsoever.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: RC on November 03, 2020, 07:08:09 PM
Received today 3068, MFG 20 JUNE 2020.
Ordered with two ice packs, opened checked temp of yeast, 58 degrees.

Was hoping for a newer date, any issues ?

Brewing tomorrow morning.

Thanks

I wouldn't worry about the shipping temp but I wouldn't be comfortable using that yeast as-is. Even for a style that can benefit (and does, IMO) from underpitching and stressing the yeast a tad, direct-pitching one smackpack of ~5-month old Wyeast is not a good idea, even if it's a low-gravity wort. I suggest making an SNS starter.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 03, 2020, 07:29:26 PM
What if I smack it now and see if it swells then put in fridge ?, brewing early tomorrow morning.
If not swelled I can bail on this batch and do another one planned.

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: denny on November 03, 2020, 07:32:25 PM
What if I smack it now and see if it swells then put in fridge ?
Brewing early tomorrow morning.

Thanks

All that tells you is that it's alive.  It doesnt increase cell count enough to be meaningful. When I said they were OK I assumed you were gonna make a starter. If not, those 2 packs into 5 gal. will be more than sufficient.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 03, 2020, 07:40:26 PM
Its for a 4.25 gallon batch.
I only have one 3068, this is not looking good.
Never made a starter, how I do that ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: RC on November 03, 2020, 07:45:44 PM
What if I smack it now and see if it swells then put in fridge ?
Brewing early tomorrow morning.

Thanks

All that tells you is that it's alive.  It doesnt increase cell count enough to be meaningful. When I said they were OK I assumed you were gonna make a starter. If not, those 2 packs into 5 gal. will be more than sufficient.

I think the "2 packs" in question are ice packs, not smackpacks...?

But yeah the purpose of the smackpack is more "proof of life" for the yeast rather than acting as an actual starter. So even with maximum inflation of the smackpack, it would still be a major underpitch. What I suggest is smacking it now. Tomorrow, set aside ~one liter of wort from the batch and make a starter with it. Honestly any type of starter will work fine, so if you can't swing the SNS type, just do something, anything on the starter front to boost the cell count a bit.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: denny on November 03, 2020, 07:53:59 PM
What if I smack it now and see if it swells then put in fridge ?
Brewing early tomorrow morning.

Thanks

All that tells you is that it's alive.  It doesnt increase cell count enough to be meaningful. When I said they were OK I assumed you were gonna make a starter. If not, those 2 packs into 5 gal. will be more than sufficient.

I think the "2 packs" in question are ice packs, not smackpacks...?

But yeah the purpose of the smackpack is more "proof of life" for the yeast rather than acting as an actual starter. So even with maximum inflation of the smackpack, it would still be a major underpitch. What I suggest is smacking it now. Tomorrow, set aside ~one liter of wort from the batch and make a starter with it. Honestly any type of starter will work fine, so if you can't swing the SNS type, just do something, anything on the starter front to boost the cell count a bit.

You are correct.  I misread it. 
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 03, 2020, 07:59:56 PM
Twenty One Pilots, Stressed Out !
Got all brewing gear ready to roll.

Putting 3068 in fridge.
Switching grain and yeast to another batch to brew tomorrow morning.
I can't have a hole in my pipeline.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: ynotbrusum on November 03, 2020, 08:42:52 PM
Good pivot, but don't be afraid of making a starter at some point.  It simply involves boiling some malt extract in 1 liter of water or using some of the mash runnings (either way) chilled to below around 90F and pitching in the yeast to give it a head start.  The shaken not stirred starter method is preferred by many here (me included), because it really seems to take off well and start the main batch robustly.  It essentially involves using a 1 gallon vessel for the 1 liter starter solution and shaking it into a froth before pitching the yeast.  Then wait for a good sign of Krausen (high Krausen typically) and pitch into the completed, chilled wort main batch (post boil, of course).
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 04, 2020, 10:44:47 AM
Good pivot, but don't be afraid of making a starter at some point.  It simply involves boiling some malt extract in 1 liter of water or using some of the mash runnings (either way) chilled to below around 90F and pitching in the yeast to give it a head start.  The shaken not stirred starter method is preferred by many here (me included), because it really seems to take off well and start the main batch robustly.  It essentially involves using a 1 gallon vessel for the 1 liter starter solution and shaking it into a froth before pitching the yeast.  Then wait for a good sign of Krausen (high Krausen typically) and pitch into the completed, chilled wort main batch (post boil, of course).

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: goose on November 04, 2020, 01:58:20 PM
After research and your inputs, will use Wyeast 3068 in the low 60's.
found this https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=12838.0

Thank You

3068 is a good choice.  Just be sure to have a blowoff tube on your fermenter.  This stuff ferments very aggressively.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 05, 2020, 09:08:10 AM
Thanks for the responses, prevented a possible nightmare for my first liquid yeast.
Next batch will be in 3 weeks, I have time to adjust.

Ordered Munich Classic as a backup, or possibly the one to use.
I was on the email list from https://www.atlanticbrewsupply.com/ to notify
me when Wyeast 3068 is back in stock, just got the email.  May call them
to ask date on yeast, my guess it is fresh.

If 5 months old needs a starter, how many months wouldn't ?

Don't see liquid yeast in my future, prefer not adding additional processes.

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Oiscout on November 05, 2020, 10:15:06 AM
IMO yeast starters are a great idea anytime

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 05, 2020, 02:22:22 PM
Since a 5-6 month old Wyeast 3068 needs a boost,
could I also pitch 1/2-1 packet of Munich Classic with it ?

Aren't they the same strain ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: denny on November 05, 2020, 02:57:01 PM
Since a 5-6 month old Wyeast 3068 needs a boost,
could I also pitch 1/2-1 packet of Munich Classic with it ?

Aren't they the same strain ?

Thanks

Yes you could and no they aren't, at least in any practical sense.  If you're going to use liquid yeast at all, you need to get comfortable making starters
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 05, 2020, 04:48:15 PM
I use a 5.3 gallon HDPE Speidel fermenter.
Can I use this for a starter ?
Put a liter of wort in, shake, put in yeast shake, wait till frothy, then
pour in remainder of wort ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: ynotbrusum on November 05, 2020, 04:57:27 PM
Yes, that will work.  Ideally, the vessel must be at least 4 to 1 volume of the starter to assure reasonable O2 levels for the starter yeast, so go for it!  if the starter is at or near high krausen, you should have no problems.  I don't think we know precisely when high krausen is reached, but it would be in a matter of just a few hours, typically.  Some here make the SNS starter at the start of the brew day and pitch into their wort when the wort is down to pitching temperature; so the only other thing for you to consider is not "shocking" the yeast with a really cold wort...which you could attemperate by adding some of the cooled wort from the main batch slowly and a little at a time until it gets close to the main batch chilled temp before racking the whole of the main batch onto the starter in your Speidel.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 05, 2020, 05:05:32 PM
Yes, that will work.  Ideally, the vessel must be at least 4 to 1 volume of the starter to assure reasonable O2 levels for the starter yeast, so go for it!  if the starter is at or near high krausen, you should have no problems.  I don't think we know precisely when high krausen is reached, but it would be in a matter of just a few hours, typically.  Some here make the SNS starter at the start of the brew day and pitch into their wort when the wort is down to pitching temperature; so the only other thing for you to consider is not "shocking" the yeast with a really cold wort...which you could attemperate by adding some of the cooled wort from the main batch slowly and a little at a time until it gets close to the main batch chilled temp before racking the whole of the main batch onto the starter in your Speidel.

Cheers.

What is the ideal temperature range for the 1 liter of wort, before pitching yeast to make starter ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: denny on November 05, 2020, 05:10:11 PM
Yes, that will work.  Ideally, the vessel must be at least 4 to 1 volume of the starter to assure reasonable O2 levels for the starter yeast, so go for it!  if the starter is at or near high krausen, you should have no problems.  I don't think we know precisely when high krausen is reached, but it would be in a matter of just a few hours, typically.  Some here make the SNS starter at the start of the brew day and pitch into their wort when the wort is down to pitching temperature; so the only other thing for you to consider is not "shocking" the yeast with a really cold wort...which you could attemperate by adding some of the cooled wort from the main batch slowly and a little at a time until it gets close to the main batch chilled temp before racking the whole of the main batch onto the starter in your Speidel.

Cheers.

What is the ideal temperature range for the 1 liter of wort, before pitching yeast.

Thanks

Not critical, but maybe mid 70s
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 05, 2020, 05:13:36 PM
Yes, that will work.  Ideally, the vessel must be at least 4 to 1 volume of the starter to assure reasonable O2 levels for the starter yeast, so go for it!  if the starter is at or near high krausen, you should have no problems.  I don't think we know precisely when high krausen is reached, but it would be in a matter of just a few hours, typically.  Some here make the SNS starter at the start of the brew day and pitch into their wort when the wort is down to pitching temperature; so the only other thing for you to consider is not "shocking" the yeast with a really cold wort...which you could attemperate by adding some of the cooled wort from the main batch slowly and a little at a time until it gets close to the main batch chilled temp before racking the whole of the main batch onto the starter in your Speidel.

Cheers.

What is the ideal temperature range for the 1 liter of wort, before pitching yeast.

Thanks

Not critical, but maybe mid 70s

Is the 1 liter wort for starter critical ? or can it be 2 ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: denny on November 05, 2020, 06:12:46 PM
Yes, that will work.  Ideally, the vessel must be at least 4 to 1 volume of the starter to assure reasonable O2 levels for the starter yeast, so go for it!  if the starter is at or near high krausen, you should have no problems.  I don't think we know precisely when high krausen is reached, but it would be in a matter of just a few hours, typically.  Some here make the SNS starter at the start of the brew day and pitch into their wort when the wort is down to pitching temperature; so the only other thing for you to consider is not "shocking" the yeast with a really cold wort...which you could attemperate by adding some of the cooled wort from the main batch slowly and a little at a time until it gets close to the main batch chilled temp before racking the whole of the main batch onto the starter in your Speidel.

Cheers.

What is the ideal temperature range for the 1 liter of wort, before pitching yeast.

Thanks

Not critical, but maybe mid 70s

Is the 1 liter wort for starter critical ? or can it be 2 ?

Thanks

Why not 1?
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 05, 2020, 07:39:53 PM
Yes, that will work.  Ideally, the vessel must be at least 4 to 1 volume of the starter to assure reasonable O2 levels for the starter yeast, so go for it!  if the starter is at or near high krausen, you should have no problems.  I don't think we know precisely when high krausen is reached, but it would be in a matter of just a few hours, typically.  Some here make the SNS starter at the start of the brew day and pitch into their wort when the wort is down to pitching temperature; so the only other thing for you to consider is not "shocking" the yeast with a really cold wort...which you could attemperate by adding some of the cooled wort from the main batch slowly and a little at a time until it gets close to the main batch chilled temp before racking the whole of the main batch onto the starter in your Speidel.

Cheers.

What is the ideal temperature range for the 1 liter of wort, before pitching yeast.

Thanks

Not critical, but maybe mid 70s

Is the 1 liter wort for starter critical ? or can it be 2 ?

Thanks

Why not 1?

SOLD, one it is !

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Slowbrew on November 05, 2020, 09:28:50 PM
Yes, that will work.  Ideally, the vessel must be at least 4 to 1 volume of the starter to assure reasonable O2 levels for the starter yeast, so go for it!  if the starter is at or near high krausen, you should have no problems.  I don't think we know precisely when high krausen is reached, but it would be in a matter of just a few hours, typically.  Some here make the SNS starter at the start of the brew day and pitch into their wort when the wort is down to pitching temperature; so the only other thing for you to consider is not "shocking" the yeast with a really cold wort...which you could attemperate by adding some of the cooled wort from the main batch slowly and a little at a time until it gets close to the main batch chilled temp before racking the whole of the main batch onto the starter in your Speidel.

Cheers.

What is the ideal temperature range for the 1 liter of wort, before pitching yeast.

Thanks

Not critical, but maybe mid 70s

Is the 1 liter wort for starter critical ? or can it be 2 ?

Thanks

Why not 1?

SOLD, one it is !

Thanks

You can do 2L starters if you want.  I used to when I first began making starters but I found that for a 5 gallon batch a 1L starter was plenty.  Less cost and faster boil/chill -win/win for me.

Paul
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: majorvices on November 05, 2020, 09:53:09 PM
You also might consider complaining to the homebrew shop you bought it from. 5 months is technically expired. They shouldn't be shipping anything older than 3 months and even with 3 months I'd make a starter.

I'll add: My LHBS used to simply give me yeast that was that old.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Cliffs on November 05, 2020, 09:54:27 PM
anyone have a source for one gallon pyrex bottles so that I could boil and chill the sns starter in one container?
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 05, 2020, 10:00:25 PM
You also might consider complaining to the homebrew shop you bought it from. 5 months is technically expired. They shouldn't be shipping anything older than 3 months and even with 3 months I'd make a starter.

I'll add: My LHBS used to simply give me yeast that was that old.

It was from one of the 2 biggest online retailers.
I'll resist disparaging them online, I might call them to see where that goes.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: ynotbrusum on November 05, 2020, 10:24:20 PM
anyone have a source for one gallon pyrex bottles so that I could boil and chill the sns starter in one container?

A gallon pyrex with a screw on lid could be pretty expensive.  You can boil in half that size and pour into a sanitized gallon glass apple cider jug after it is cooled.  Not much extra effort, otherwise try an online scientific supply house and maybe e-Bay.  I once had a 5 liter graduated cylinder that a friend gave me.  A few brews in and I knocked it to the garage floor - that was that; I now know my limitations and don't trust my heavy handedness with good, but fragile equipment.  Apple jugs are cheap and pretty reliable, but you can't boil in them, of course.

Good luck and if you find a source, let us all know.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: majorvices on November 05, 2020, 10:55:03 PM
anyone have a source for one gallon pyrex bottles so that I could boil and chill the sns starter in one container?

I use 2 L large mouth mason jars - I do not boil in them but you could give them a boiling water bath if you are that stresses. I run mine through the dishwasher and sanitize them with StarSan. I use these fermentation lids below. FYI they work with stirplates too.

https://www.amazon.com/AMZUShome-Fermenting-Waterless-Fermentation-Sauerkraut/dp/B078RL7LBT/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=2U4KRIZZADF88&dchild=1&keywords=fermentation+lid+for+mason+jar&sprefix=fermentation+lid+%2Caps%2C179&sr=8-3-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFBUE1GU1Y5U1VPTTMmZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTA3NTUzODVFOUc3Q0U5SFZOSlEmZW5jcnlwdGVkQWRJZD1BMDYyNzMzNDJSVEpLUDRMVlEySDMmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: majorvices on November 05, 2020, 11:13:12 PM
You also might consider complaining to the homebrew shop you bought it from. 5 months is technically expired. They shouldn't be shipping anything older than 3 months and even with 3 months I'd make a starter.

I'll add: My LHBS used to simply give me yeast that was that old.

It was from one of the 2 biggest online retailers.
I'll resist disparaging them online, I might call them to see where that goes.

I've had good service from NB and MB, when things have gone wrong they have both been eager to fix it.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 06, 2020, 05:10:48 PM
You also might consider complaining to the homebrew shop you bought it from. 5 months is technically expired. They shouldn't be shipping anything older than 3 months and even with 3 months I'd make a starter.

I'll add: My LHBS used to simply give me yeast that was that old.

It was from one of the 2 biggest online retailers.
I'll resist disparaging them online, I might call them to see where that goes.

I've had good service from NB and MB, when things have gone wrong they have both been eager to fix it.
[/quote

Emailed MB about the yeast.
They're sending a replacement :>

Thanks
Title: Hefe
Post by: BrewBama on November 06, 2020, 06:20:37 PM
Once I had an order come up short from NB. They not only made my order right but they gifted me $50 in store credit. I told them all I needed was my order corrected — a simple 1 oz bag of hops — but they insisted. 


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Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Saccharomyces on November 06, 2020, 07:52:54 PM
I use 2 L large mouth mason jars - I do not boil in them but you could give them a boiling water bath if you are that stresses. I run mine through the dishwasher and sanitize them with StarSan. I use these fermentation lids below. FYI they work with stirplates too.

A 2L mason jar is too small for an SNS starter.  The container needs to be at least four times the volume of the starter.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Saccharomyces on November 06, 2020, 07:57:32 PM
anyone have a source for one gallon pyrex bottles so that I could boil and chill the sns starter in one container?

I use a 5L borosilicate glass (a.k.a. Pyrex or Kimax) media bottle.  While I hot-pack my starter medium, I would never boil in it.  I would never boil in an Erlenmeyer flask either because that is a shatter event waiting to happen.  The proper piece of borosilicate glass labware to use for boiling is a boiling flask.  A boiling flask is round because the expansion and contraction stresses are evenly distributed in sphere.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 11, 2020, 06:55:33 PM
Received replacement yeast, temp received 70 F.
Won't be ready to brew Hefeweizen for 2 weeks.
Fermenting 4.5 gallons, 4.5 ABV.

Can I pitch both yeasts the same time ?
expires (05 May 2021) & expires (10 Dec 2020).

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: denny on November 11, 2020, 06:58:09 PM
Received replacement yeast, temp received 70 F.
Won't be ready to brew Hefeweizen for 2 weeks.
Fermenting 4.5 gallons, 4.5 ABV.

Can I pitch the new one (expires 05 May 2021) ,and the old one (expires 10 Dec 2020).

Thanks

Sure.  You probably don't need to, but you can.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 11, 2020, 07:15:21 PM
No starter needed pitching both same time  ?
What impact on clove/banana balance using both ? or just the new one ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: denny on November 11, 2020, 07:16:16 PM
No starter needed pitching both same time  ?
What impact on clove/banana balance using both ? or just the new one ?

Thanks

This is a perfect situation for you to decide one wy or the other and find out for yourself.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: RC on November 11, 2020, 08:40:32 PM
Received replacement yeast, temp received 70 F.
Won't be ready to brew Hefeweizen for 2 weeks.
Fermenting 4.5 gallons, 4.5 ABV.

Can I pitch both yeasts the same time ?
expires (05 May 2021) & expires (10 Dec 2020).

Thanks

I'd pitch both, if for no other reason than to use up the old one. It contains relatively few healthy cells as-is. You could go to modest lengths to revive it...or just use it and be done with it. It won't hurt the beer any if you pitch it...or not. The one you just received is a fresh pouch, and direct-pitching it (with or without the old one) will give you a great pitch-rate for your hef.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: majorvices on November 11, 2020, 11:43:40 PM
I use 2 L large mouth mason jars - I do not boil in them but you could give them a boiling water bath if you are that stresses. I run mine through the dishwasher and sanitize them with StarSan. I use these fermentation lids below. FYI they work with stirplates too.

A 2L mason jar is too small for an SNS starter.  The container needs to be at least four times the volume of the starter.

I've never bothered with SNS starters. What I use works well for me.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 12, 2020, 09:01:54 AM
Received replacement yeast, temp received 70 F.
Won't be ready to brew Hefeweizen for 2 weeks.
Fermenting 4.5 gallons, 4.5 ABV.

Can I pitch both yeasts the same time ?
expires (05 May 2021) & expires (10 Dec 2020).

Thanks

I'd pitch both, if for no other reason than to use up the old one. It contains relatively few healthy cells as-is. You could go to modest lengths to revive it...or just use it and be done with it. It won't hurt the beer any if you pitch it...or not. The one you just received is a fresh pouch, and direct-pitching it (with or without the old one) will give you a great pitch-rate for your hef.

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: roger on November 12, 2020, 02:58:30 PM
Received replacement yeast, temp received 70 F.
Won't be ready to brew Hefeweizen for 2 weeks.
Fermenting 4.5 gallons, 4.5 ABV.

Can I pitch both yeasts the same time ?
expires (05 May 2021) & expires (10 Dec 2020).

Thanks

I'd pitch both, if for no other reason than to use up the old one. It contains relatively few healthy cells as-is. You could go to modest lengths to revive it...or just use it and be done with it. It won't hurt the beer any if you pitch it...or not. The one you just received is a fresh pouch, and direct-pitching it (with or without the old one) will give you a great pitch-rate for your hef.

I agree with this for most beer styles. However, there seems to be agreement out there to avoid overpitching when brewing a Hefeweizen. The following quote is from the article, link below.

I’m not telling you to deliberately under pitch, but don’t take whatever steps you normally do to encourage yeast growth. Don’t grow up a starter. Don’t oxygenate the wort. One smack-pack, no oxygen or aeration.

https://beerandbrewing.com/make-your-best-weissbier/
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 12, 2020, 04:39:26 PM
Received replacement yeast, temp received 70 F.
Won't be ready to brew Hefeweizen for 2 weeks.
Fermenting 4.5 gallons, 4.5 ABV.

Can I pitch both yeasts the same time ?
expires (05 May 2021) & expires (10 Dec 2020).

Thanks

I'd pitch both, if for no other reason than to use up the old one. It contains relatively few healthy cells as-is. You could go to modest lengths to revive it...or just use it and be done with it. It won't hurt the beer any if you pitch it...or not. The one you just received is a fresh pouch, and direct-pitching it (with or without the old one) will give you a great pitch-rate for your hef.

I agree with this for most beer styles. However, there seems to be agreement out there to avoid overpitching when brewing a Hefeweizen. The following quote is from the article, link below.

I’m not telling you to deliberately under pitch, but don’t take whatever steps you normally do to encourage yeast growth. Don’t grow up a starter. Don’t oxygenate the wort. One smack-pack, no oxygen or aeration.

https://beerandbrewing.com/make-your-best-weissbier/

Only using the fresher Wyeast 3068.
Will use older yeast to test my smacking skills.

Just did test, didn't feel right smacking it, thoughts of pack bursting.
Located pouch inside with fingers, squeezed it, then felt/heard it pop.

Thanks for input
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 13, 2020, 07:12:21 PM
Would rice hulls be necessary for BIAB ?
Stir every 20 minutes for 90 minutes to equalize heat.

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: denny on November 13, 2020, 07:25:06 PM
Would rice hulls be necessary for BIAB ?
Stir every 20 minutes for 90 minutes to equalize heat.

Thanks

I doubt it.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 13, 2020, 09:19:27 PM
Would rice hulls be necessary for BIAB ?
Stir every 20 minutes for 90 minutes to equalize heat.

Thanks

I doubt it.

Thanks, had to double check.
Finalizing my notes for the Hefeweizen.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: dmtaylor on November 14, 2020, 12:56:00 AM
Would rice hulls be necessary for BIAB ?

I do.  But I sparge my bag too, so I'm kind of goofy.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 21, 2020, 02:12:22 PM
Today finally brewed the Hefeweizen.
All the temperatures and times ran like clockwork.

However, the nutrient pack in pouch was difficult to break.
Unlike the first one when a strong squeeze popped it,
this one was squeezed, smacked over and over again.
When I thought the packet was broken, proceeded with
brewing.  Takes about 4 hours to get to the point for pitching yeast.

After pouring liquid yeast in fermenter peered in pouch to see what
the packet looked like, not broken :<.

Command decision was to break nutrient and pour in fermenter.
It took a helluva lot of smacking to break.

What did this do to the Hefeweizen ?

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Slowbrew on November 21, 2020, 03:02:54 PM
You will be fine.  The yeast were feeding on your wort before you broke the packet. :)

Sometimes the packets are a real pain to pop.  I typically trap them in a corner of main package while they lay on flat surface and push on them with my palm with all weight until it pops.

Paul
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: RC on November 21, 2020, 06:38:15 PM
They're called smackpacks for a reason. I hold it flat in one hand, position the nutrient bubble over the palm, and then smack the holy living hell out of it with my other palm. Seems like you might pop the whole pouch open and have a mess on your hands, as well as lost yeast, but you won't. At least, that has never happened with me. They can take the smacking. Show that pouch who's boss!
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: denny on November 21, 2020, 06:57:35 PM
Tbere is really nothing to be gained by popping them other than to verify viability.  I seldom bother.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 23, 2020, 08:21:08 PM
Was prepared for an aggressive fermentation with Wyeast 3068.
It's fermenting, but no different from other dry yeasts used, inch or two high krausen line.
I'm guessing it's because I'm fermenting on the low side (64F) ?
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: RC on November 23, 2020, 08:35:30 PM
Was prepared for an aggressive fermentation with Wyeast 3068.
It's fermenting, but no different from other dry yeasts used, inch or two high krausen line.
I'm guessing it's because I'm fermenting on the low side (64F) ?

With those hef yeasts, often between 36-48 hrs post-pitch, the krausen build-up will pause for a day or so, and then suddenly erupt. So I'd still keep an eye on it; a volcano might still happen. I get the same behavior with 1318. Some yeasts just do that.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 24, 2020, 09:31:16 AM
Was prepared for an aggressive fermentation with Wyeast 3068.
It's fermenting, but no different from other dry yeasts used, inch or two high krausen line.
I'm guessing it's because I'm fermenting on the low side (64F) ?

With those hef yeasts, often between 36-48 hrs post-pitch, the krausen build-up will pause for a day or so, and then suddenly erupt. So I'd still keep an eye on it; a volcano might still happen. I get the same behavior with 1318. Some yeasts just do that.

I dunno, pitched 3 days ago, airlock activity is slowing down.
Beer dropped to about 62f which might be too low for it.
After a week might move fermenter to a warmer place.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: roger on November 24, 2020, 01:29:05 PM
I've fermented that yeast at 62F in order to keep the banana flavors subdued. It ferments well there. Have you checked the gravity?
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 24, 2020, 01:45:18 PM
I've fermented that yeast at 62F in order to keep the banana flavors subdued. It ferments well there. Have you checked the gravity?

Strong rotten egg / sulfur smell was produced, always sniff airlock when bubbling.
Just broke hydrometer, picked it up the wrong way.
Test tube was a rocket launcher for the hydrometer.
There's glass dust on the concrete basement floor everywhere.

Ok, good to know, I'll let it ride @ 62 for 3 weeks.
Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: majorvices on November 27, 2020, 06:25:20 PM
I've fermented that yeast at 62F in order to keep the banana flavors subdued. It ferments well there. Have you checked the gravity?

Strong rotten egg / sulfur smell was produced, always sniff airlock when bubbling.
Just broke hydrometer, picked it up the wrong way.
Test tube was a rocket launcher for the hydrometer.
There's glass dust on the concrete basement floor everywhere.

Ok, good to know, I'll let it ride @ 62 for 3 weeks.
Thanks

YOu can hold the temp at 62F if you want but 72 hours after krausen forms it's pretty customary to raise temp. If I started at 62F I'd probably raise to 66 on day 3or 4 and then 68-72 on day 5 or 6 and let it ride until done

No sense in sniffing airlocks IMO. Off gassing fermentation isn't going to usually smell great.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Oiscout on November 27, 2020, 06:27:11 PM
Mine currently smells like sulfur, not reccomended sniffing

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Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: santoch on November 27, 2020, 06:33:16 PM
3 weeks is usually not necessary for that yeast.  Just keep your eye on it and usually by around day 10 or so you see the krausen has fallen and can take a gravity reading.  2 days in a row of the same reading, and it's done.
Weissbier is a great beer to drink fresh.  It's one of my favorite styles.

Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Oiscout on November 27, 2020, 06:35:09 PM
3 weeks is usually not necessary for that yeast.  Just keep your eye on it and usually by around day 10 or so you see the krausen has fallen and can take a gravity reading.  2 days in a row of the same reading, and it's done.
Weissbier is a great beer to drink fresh.  It's one of my favorite styles.
+1

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Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on November 27, 2020, 09:33:08 PM
Ok, consensus is shorter fermentation, I'll go 2 weeks.
Broke hydrometer, only used once, no intention of replacing.
Have brewed 40+ all grain batches without one, ferment 2-3 weeks always.
I always sniff airlock when bubbling :>  Not concerned with egg smell, always went away.

Moved fermenter to upstairs closet that is 65 degrees.  Wort in basement dropped to
59-60 after active fermentation.  Fermentation was far from wild, very mild.

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on December 11, 2020, 12:57:52 PM
Today, bottled Hefeweizen at 3 weeks, life's adventures prevented any earlier.
Wow, sampled a little bit when bottling, soft mild banana taste, very pleasant.
Will be ready to drink New Years Eve.  This might be the best brew to date.
Out of the 40+ all grains I've sampled when bottling, it's the most pleasant by far.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Oiscout on December 11, 2020, 02:48:02 PM
Congrats!!!

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Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on December 12, 2020, 10:10:57 AM
Congrats!!!

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I'm really glad it worked out, it was the first liquid yeast, and first Hefeweizen.
First sip of a new batch always seems stressful, the dreaded "I've got 4.5 gallons of this :< always looms.
Now the wait for 3 weeks of bottle condition and carb.
As promised will take pic, at least try to find out where to upload and share.

Thanks
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: santoch on December 21, 2020, 04:32:52 AM
Glad to hear it!  Congrats!
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on January 01, 2021, 09:17:21 AM
Hefe first tasting notes.

1. Beer was good, not my preferred style, something different.
2. Its been noted best fresh, agreed.  Banana notes faded, not perceived being present.
3. Balance of clove/banana has been mentioned, also agreed. Some banana would be beneficial.
4. Surprised on the clove taste.  Not like the clove spice used for cooking.
5. Very smooth
6. The style calls for higher carbonation, I carbonated low as usual.
7. Nice change of pace, drinking over the long haul will be an issue though.

Struggling with new phone taking good pics.
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: erockrph on January 01, 2021, 03:12:23 PM
Hefe first tasting notes.

1. Beer was good, not my preferred style, something different.
2. Its been noted best fresh, agreed.  Banana notes faded, not perceived being present.
3. Balance of clove/banana has been mentioned, also agreed. Some banana would be beneficial.
4. Surprised on the clove taste.  Not like the clove spice used for cooking.
5. Very smooth
6. The style calls for higher carbonation, I carbonated low as usual.
7. Nice change of pace, drinking over the long haul will be an issue though.

Struggling with new phone taking good pics.
Yeah, I brew Hefe about once every 3 or 4 years. It's a great beer when fresh, but my craving is satisfied after a few pints . I usually end up dumping the rest of the keg after a month or two to make room for another batch.

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Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Oiscout on January 01, 2021, 03:56:38 PM
I find best drank within two weeks of being kegged

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Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on January 02, 2021, 09:55:24 AM
Also, against better judgement didn't use White Wheat.
Thought I'd give non white wheat another try, lesson learned, again.
Wife is a super taste tester, and picky. On a long streak she has rated
my brews 7-9 (scale 1-10), this one she gave a 3.

 
Title: Re: Hefe
Post by: Fire Rooster on January 15, 2021, 09:14:31 PM
Don't know what happened, but the Hefe has changed.
After 2 weeks of bottles being stored on mid 50's basement floor, it has improved dramatically.
It's now enjoyable, smooth, no more harsh clove bite, and the wife now gives it an 8.
Phew, thought it was headed for a dump.
I lack the skills to give a detailed description, other than very good.