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Other than Brewing => All Things Food => Topic started by: tschmidlin on September 02, 2010, 06:07:42 AM

Title: more smoking . . .
Post by: tschmidlin on September 02, 2010, 06:07:42 AM
I'm going to smoke some meat this weekend.  I'm thinking a large chunk of beef or pork, anyone have any recommendations?  I know that's really wide open, I just can't decide.  I might just go with whatever is cheapest at costco.

I mostly smoke on my grill, I can keep it around 240-250 pretty consistently but no lower.  I might be getting a new grill before the weekend though, the old one is a bit small for when we have a lot of company.  Has anyone tried one of those infrared grills?  Have a favorite gas grill for less than $500?  I know all of the arguments in favor of charcoal grills and I don't disagree with them, I just love the convenience of a gas grill.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: beerocd on September 02, 2010, 11:20:25 AM
I'm going to smoke some meat this weekend.  I'm thinking a large chunk of beef or pork, anyone have any recommendations?  I know that's really wide open, I just can't decide.  I might just go with whatever is cheapest at costco.


Whole pork tenderloin is probably gonna win out based on cost. I like to take a frozed italian sausage an ram it into the center of the loin. Do that by making an X in the loin, simply by shoving a knife in as far as it will go to create your path for the sausage. Stab the snot out of it with a fork to pierce through the loin and the sausage - so it can baste inside out.  There's millions of rubs - put something on the outside. It just looks cool when you're slicing it to serve - everyone gets a little bit of italian sausage with their slice of pork.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: gordonstrong on September 02, 2010, 01:31:09 PM
I'd go with a chuck roast or brisket for beef, or a Boston butt or shoulder roast for pork.

Dry rub, then smoke low and slow.  I'd tend to use similar cuts that I'd use for large braises, since you want a similar effect.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: tubercle on September 02, 2010, 01:43:16 PM
Boston butt @ 225 until the center reaches 165 with a good spicy dry rub.

 Meat candy ;D
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: Robert on September 02, 2010, 02:15:50 PM
I'll second the pork butt. I'm going to be putting one on either Sunday or Monday. I have some work to do on my smoker to try and seal up some gaps where I think I'm losing some smoke and heat.


As far as prep, I put a nice coating of spicy brown mustard on the whole thing before smoking to really add some flavor.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: euge on September 02, 2010, 04:22:02 PM
Pork shoulder...? Toying with the idea of doing one this weekend. Bone in with an apple-juice injection and a fierce dry-rub. Then pull and shred. Serve on buns with coleslaw. Eat on it for a week ;)
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: tschmidlin on September 02, 2010, 05:53:27 PM
Hmmm . . . I might do both beef and pork, that's what happens when you can't decide.  :)  I probably won't get around to shopping until tomorrow, then see what they have.  I'll likely do a dry rub.

Brisket sounds good - I think I'll get a whole brisket, smoke half this weekend and corn the rest so we can have it in a couple of weeks.

If there's room on the grill I'll do pork shoulder/butt too.  Or maybe I'll do them on consecutive days.  Thanks for the ideas. :)
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: riverrat on September 02, 2010, 06:14:23 PM
mmmmmmm.... meat sweats.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: bluesman on September 02, 2010, 06:46:06 PM
Alright ...another Pork Shoulder vote here. Boston Butt is the best cut...about 6-8lbs would be good. A healthy dose of your favorite rub and a blend of Hickory, Apple and Oak for smoking.

Bring the meat to room temp prior to smoking and slow smoke until the internal temp reaches about 165-170 as Tubercle had indicated.

Here's a great recipe for a dry rub compliments of Steven Raichlen

2 tablespoons paprika
1 tablespoon freshly ground black pepper
1 tablespoon dark brown sugar
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
1 1/2 teaspoons celery salt
1 teaspoon garlic powder
1 teaspoon dry mustard
1 teaspoon cumin
1/2 teaspoon cayenne pepper
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: deepsouth on September 02, 2010, 07:02:16 PM
i'm going to go against the grain here and say that if you do a pork butt, you should cook it to 195-200 internal and then double foil it and wrap it in a beach towel and put it in an ice chest for a couple hours and then pull it and season it to taste with additional rub and then let people sauce their portion if they wish.

liberally coat butt with mustard and apply your favorite rub.  on the meat side, rub it in good and then recoat it and wrap it in saran and put it back in the refrigerator for a few hours.  i put my butts on cold.

(http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx201/deepsouth1970/cf05465c.jpg)

(http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx201/deepsouth1970/2b4b7708.jpg)

(http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/xx201/deepsouth1970/6ca1bda2.jpg)
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: tschmidlin on September 02, 2010, 07:06:04 PM
I can't take it anymore, I'm going to the store right now.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: euge on September 02, 2010, 07:07:22 PM
Muahahaha!!!! ;D
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: tschmidlin on September 02, 2010, 09:40:54 PM
This will only reaffirm to SWMBO that I'm a little crazy.  I got:

8 lbs brisket
12 lbs pork shoulder
10 lbs chicken

It's going to be a smoking weekend.  I've got enough hickory and alder to do all of it, but I'm thinking of trying some of the other woods I've collected.  I've got some plum and apple branches I can use.

Has anyone ever tried smoking with madrona?
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: deepsouth on September 02, 2010, 09:42:54 PM
This will only reaffirm to SWMBO that I'm a little crazy.  I got:

8 lbs brisket
12 lbs pork shoulder
10 lbs chicken

It's going to be a smoking weekend.  I've got enough hickory and alder to do all of it, but I'm thinking of trying some of the other woods I've collected.  I've got some plum and apple branches I can use.

Has anyone ever tried smoking with madrona?

finish pics or it didn't happen....

;o)
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: tschmidlin on September 02, 2010, 09:48:47 PM
finish pics or it didn't happen....
;o)
Is there a place that hosts pics free and won't send me tons of email?  I'm sure there is, just don't know any.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: dbeechum on September 02, 2010, 09:53:26 PM
http://imgur.com/ is pretty good.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on September 02, 2010, 09:55:45 PM
finish pics or it didn't happen....
;o)
Is there a place that hosts pics free and won't send me tons of email?  I'm sure there is, just don't know any.
I use Picasa or Flickr but they do not really want you to share pics it this way.
On the other side if you have yahoo or gmail account you are half way there.
I think Picasa has a better upload utility.
There are other services like shuterfly
or you could use file share/backup/sync service like dropbox.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: markaberrant on September 02, 2010, 09:56:27 PM
i'm going to go against the grain here and say that if you do a pork butt, you should cook it to 195-200 internal and then double foil it and wrap it in a beach towel and put it in an ice chest for a couple hours and then pull it and season it to taste with additional rub and then let people sauce their portion if they wish.

This is exactly what I do. 160F seems way too low.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: hopfenundmalz on September 02, 2010, 11:17:22 PM
We have been doing pork tenderloins with different woods, but always the same rub and mop.

Pear, nectarine, and persimmon have been woods that have been excellent.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: tschmidlin on September 03, 2010, 04:57:24 AM
Ok, if this works here is a pic of the peach crisp I made last weekend.  i'm not much on presentation, but it was delicious.

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_j-Iuc3I_JMk/TIB_O_Ja4FI/AAAAAAAAABg/fWuRQ45b6ps/s640/IMG00044-20100829-1607.jpg)

Now that I know how to do it, you'll see some pics of the meat that gets smoked this weekend.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: redbeerman on September 03, 2010, 11:12:40 AM
We have been doing pork tenderloins with different woods, but always the same rub and mop.

Pear, nectarine, and persimmon have been woods that have been excellent.

Finally, a use for my old golf clubs. ;)
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: tschmidlin on September 04, 2010, 09:19:11 PM
finish pics or it didn't happen....

;o)
I'm doing the pork shoulder today, 12 lbs total, they look to be about 6.5 and 5.5 lbs.  I'm smoking them with some madrona wood I got from a friend who had a tree come down in a storm.  It was split to use as firewood, so I cut it with a chop saw into ~1 inch think pieces, then chopped that into chunks with a hatchet.

Rubbed the night before, one with a sweet rub, one with a spicy rub . . .
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_j-Iuc3I_JMk/TIH9ZrrycpI/AAAAAAAAAB0/gNHz9gKqxSI/IMG00066-20100903-2035.jpg)

Turned after three hours at 225 . . .
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_j-Iuc3I_JMk/TIK1bubN0VI/AAAAAAAAAB8/dZhcnodBRA0/IMG00069-20100904-1202.jpg)

You'll get your finish pics :)
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: nicneufeld on September 04, 2010, 11:48:39 PM
Looks good!  Pork shoulder is one of those classic BBQ cuts, and excepting chicken, is one of the few that hasn't been artificially inflated in cost via demand.  Brisket and ribs used to be "throwaway" cuts!

I smoked a meatloaf last night.  Half hamburger, half pork sausage, and plenty (!!!) of spices, my wife says to make a "normal" meat loaf next time that isn't so spicy!  But its rather tasty.

On Labor Day I'm planning a bit of a luau, pineapple glazed pork ribs, some pineapple fried rice, pineapple rum drinks of some variety, fried pineapple and cream cheese wontons, fresh pineapple...maybe I'm giving away the theme!  But have the works of Alfred Apaka on hand to add to the festive atmosphere.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: tschmidlin on September 05, 2010, 12:56:33 AM
Where are you?  Damn, KC MO?  Damn damn damn.

Going on 9 hours cooking, still not up to temp, almost to 160F.  Ran out of gas on the first tank and took me a while to notice, the temp dropped quite a bit.  Good thing I can hack bits off the end to feed the kids for dinner, and good we didn't invite the neighbors, dinner is going to be late :)  They can come over tomorrow for leftover pork shoulder when I do the chicken and maybe the brisket.  I'm considering making pastrami from at least part of it, or maybe just corned beef.  Too many choices . . .
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: beerocd on September 05, 2010, 01:17:05 AM
Going on 9 hours cooking, still not up to temp, almost to 160F.  Ran out of gas

9 hours....gas ..... smoking ..... I must be tipsy this is not making sense. :-\
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: deepsouth on September 05, 2010, 01:22:53 AM
you should let those get to 195-200 internal and then double foil and wrap in a towel and throw in an ice chest for an hour or two before pulling, if you have that long...  if you don't, i still wouldn't pull them at 160 as you still have most of the fat unrendered at that point. 
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: bluesman on September 05, 2010, 02:26:25 AM
you should let those get to 195-200 internal and then double foil and wrap in a towel and throw in an ice chest for an hour or two before pulling, if you have that long...  if you don't, i still wouldn't pull them at 160 as you still have most of the fat unrendered at that point.  

Yes with a pork shoulder... I would get the internal temp 195F.

Use temperatures between 225° and 275° (at the grate).  Start your butt with the fat side down. After a few hours you may elect to turn it to balance the color. In a few more hours, turn it fat side down again.  Plan on 1.5 to 2 hours per pound of cooking time, so a 7 pound butt may take 14 or more hours. Your internal target temperature is 195°, but some may be done earlier or later. The butt will hit a temperature plateau or stall at 160° to 170° or so. Each butt cooks differently. It's a long smoke.  RDWHAHB.   ;D


Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: tschmidlin on September 05, 2010, 05:13:41 AM
It's going fine, but it's still going.  I'm still getting used to the new grill (new as of yesterday).  I learned the temp at the grate is a good 40 degrees lower than at the thermometer, so that isn't helping.  It's delicious though, that madrona wood is really great - glad I have more.  13 hours, still not even close to 195. 

I'll be up for a while, so there's no hurry now that we've eaten dinner.  I'm definitely relaxed, not worried, having a brew or a few.

Here's what it looks like as of 12 hours.  You might be able to tell I hacked some off so we could eat it :)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_j-Iuc3I_JMk/TIMml4KeFgI/AAAAAAAAACE/_x3pLhJj8dg/IMG00072-20100904-2053.jpg)

<edited for clarity>
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: beerocd on September 05, 2010, 01:11:58 PM
It's going fine, but it's still going.  I'm still getting used to the new grill (new as of yesterday). 

How about pulling back on the shot a bit so we can see what you're cooking on? Since it's all new and shiny still...
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: tschmidlin on September 05, 2010, 06:24:01 PM
It's just a basic gas grill, similar to the old one but bigger.  A Brinkman 9520 (http://www.brinkmann.net/products/outdoor_cooking/gas_grills/details.aspx?item=810-9520-S), nothing fancy really, and on sale for $200 at Home Depot.  It has 5 burners, which definitely helps with temperature control, the old one only had two burners.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: gordonstrong on September 06, 2010, 01:17:32 PM
A question for those who go by internal temperature: are you measuring the temperature when you remove it, or the temperature it reaches after it rests?  How much carry-over cooking do you get?

I normally smoke a pork butt until it acts a certain way, sort of like you grill a steak until it feels a certain way.  I look for it to pull apart easily (connective tissue broken down).

Connective tissue is mostly collagen. It starts breaking down into gelatin around 160F and keeps going until around 180F. If you mash, you understand how things change at different temperatures. But this isn't as fast as a mash; it takes time.  Fat also renders and bastes the meat.

Silverskin doesn't break down; always trim it off before cooking.

I do more braising than smoking, but you use similar cuts of meat and the meat changes in the same way.  It's just that one way gives you flavor from rubs and smoke, and the other from searing and aromatics.  But I check for doneness in the same way; try to pull it apart and watch how it acts.  I guess I should take the temperature of the meat at that point to see what it is.

At what point does the meat start to dry out? Certainly protein contracts when heated and can push out moisture. Fat and gelatin melt and can drip off. What is the temperature trade-off between tender and dry?  Like I said, I do it by appearance so I'd like to know what temperatures correspond to those points.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: nicneufeld on September 06, 2010, 02:11:39 PM
For pork I tend to do "by feel" as well but I get it to 180 internal as a rough guide.  I'd rather verge on overcooked, and less moist, than undercooked.  When pork (particularly ribs!) are undercooked (cooked in the sense of over 165, but not tender) they adhere to the bone and the stringy texture of the meat that invariably wedges itself in between teeth and gums is unappealing to me.  But I've roasted pork ribs until you'd think they would be way overcooked, and aside from being a bit too fall off the bone, they definitely have stayed moist...just so much fat in them!  I'd be much more careful with, say, pork loin, which will dry out if you look at it too sternly.

But for something like pulled pork, I usually am going to toss it with some kind of sauce anyway, so I'd rather it get fully done and tender (if a bit drier).  I haven't done pork shoulders in forever though.  Lately its been mostly ribs, chicken (spatchcocked), steaks, and occasionally cured meats for the meat slicer (canadian bacon from cured pork loin and pastrami from corned beef).
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: deepsouth on September 06, 2010, 04:52:30 PM
I pull my butts off at 195 and double foil and wrap them in a towel and throw them into a cooler a couple hours before pulling.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: bluesman on September 06, 2010, 06:59:04 PM
I pull my butts off at 195 and double foil and wrap them in a towel and throw them into a cooler a couple hours before pulling.

+1

This final step of wrapping and placing in a cooler is a method employed by competition teams.  I currently have a boston butt on my smoker and just foiled it at 145F and will pull it at 195ish.  I will then wrap it with another layer of foil and put it in a cooler with a towel wrapped around it for a couple hours.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: deepsouth on September 06, 2010, 08:47:34 PM
we could hang out...
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: bluesman on September 06, 2010, 09:02:50 PM
BBQ and homebrew...what more can I ask for... :-\
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: deepsouth on September 06, 2010, 09:50:00 PM
True that.
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: beerocd on September 07, 2010, 01:57:21 AM
Ah, alcohol infused bro-mance!  :-*
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: bluesman on September 07, 2010, 01:58:22 AM
Ah, alcohol infused bro-mance!  :-*

Yes...we love you too.   :P
Title: Re: more smoking . . .
Post by: deepsouth on September 07, 2010, 01:59:44 AM
hahaha.