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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: Silver_Is_Money on October 25, 2020, 10:01:08 pm

Title: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Silver_Is_Money on October 25, 2020, 10:01:08 pm
I've generally had decent success with the Fermentis lager yeasts mentioned in the subject line (I've yet to try S-23), but my LHBS has them priced in the mid $8's per pack at present, whereas Label Peelers presently has Diamond Lager on sale at $4.97 per pack combined with free shipping.  I have a Dortmunder Export on deck and was going to use S-189, but I always pitch 2 packs, and the $4.97 with free shipping price for the Diamond got my attention at only $9.94 for two packs.  And now I'm having second thoughts.  I've never used the Lallemand lager yeast.  Should I bite the bullet and buy the S-189, or go with the Diamond?
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: dmtaylor on October 25, 2020, 10:36:48 pm
I haven't used Diamond yet myself, but have heard very good things about it.  I will be trying it soon.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 25, 2020, 11:49:16 pm
Diamond is much like 34/70, it might clear a little better. I had a Pils split between S-189 and Diamond. Diamond was better in the Pils. I had a Rauchbier split S-189 and 34/70. Preferred the S-189 in that beer style as the malt flavor come through more, and it had better mouth feel.

S-189 better for malty
Diamond 34/70 better for a dry finish.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: purduekenn on October 26, 2020, 12:12:06 am
I used Diamond Lager yeast this summer to brew a Helles and it turned out great. It started a bit slower than 34/70 but it produced a nice beer. I'll brew a Munich Dunkel with S189 I think its better for malty beers too.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: tommymorris on October 26, 2020, 12:55:24 am
I have used Diamond Lager yeast several times. I like it. It is similar to 34/70 which I think works well in all Pilsner type beers.
Title: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Ellismr on October 26, 2020, 09:58:52 am
If you’re not opposed to paying for shipping Hop craft supply in Michigan still sells fermentis products for the $4.99 each and you can pick up a lot of stuff there and they’re shipping out of state less than 25 pounds is $8 for priority mail. 

I have used the diamond Lager strain and it is very similar to 30/70.  I use the S 23 strain in lager that is a little more malt forward such as a Bock, Helles, or dunkel. 

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Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: purduekenn on October 26, 2020, 10:54:24 am
RiteBrew.com in Wisconsin has 34/70 for $4.79 and their first class shipping is fair. They have good prices. I recently ordered grain and other items and I got my order delivered to Kentucky in 3 days!
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: erockrph on October 26, 2020, 05:42:47 pm
RiteBrew.com in Wisconsin has 34/70 for $4.79 and their first class shipping is fair. They have good prices. I recently ordered grain and other items and I got my order delivered to Kentucky in 3 days!
I just discovered them myself and placed my first order with them today. It was shipped within a couple of hours. They seem to have a good selection and good prices as well. Shipping wasn't free, but it was very reasonable given the lower prices they charged. I saw a Grainfather conical in their clearance section for $300

Back to the original post, I haven't used Diamond yet, but I have some in my fridge that I will be using for my spring lagers. I like both 34/70 and S-189 quite a bit. I've started using 34/70 for pressurized fermentations, and it makes a clean beer fast. My only issue is that it doesn't clear as quickly as I'd like. If Diamond performs as well as 34/70, but drops bright quicker, then it will likely become my go-to lager yeast.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 26, 2020, 06:28:03 pm
If you’re not opposed to paying for shipping Hop craft supply in Michigan still sells fermentis products for the $4.99 each and you can pick up a lot of stuff there and they’re shipping out of state less than 25 pounds is $8 for priority mail. 

I have used the diamond Lager strain and it is very similar to 30/70.  I use the S 23 strain in lager that is a little more malt forward such as a Bock, Helles, or dunkel. 

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I will also vouch for Hop Craft. They have a good selection of grains, too, if I want something Adventures doesn't handle. Think old style hardware store vs a big box store (stuff has to move, can't take up space). Was $5 in state shipping for me.


Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Village Taphouse on October 26, 2020, 09:10:13 pm
Ritebrew is excellent.

Last summer I made a bunch of lagers with the Diamond yeast.  I thought it made very good beers.  I have also used S-189 which I consider to have less character than Diamond... the beers were "cleaner" for better or worse.  I also used to keep S-23 around for emergencies and I once made an English Ale where I was going to use harvested 1028 but the prior beer was somehow contaminated so now I had English Ale wort but no yeast so... I used S-23 and made an English Lager!  :D  That was quite a few years ago and I have no recollection about the yeast itself other than it saved my batch.  Also, I love 2124 but I have never used 34/70 which is a supposed to be a dry version of 2124.  If Diamond is similar to 34/70 then that's close enough for me.  I just received a packet of Diamond to keep onhand and also a pack of BRY-97 since I have never tried it. 
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: denny on October 26, 2020, 10:04:17 pm
Ritebrew is excellent.

Last summer I made a bunch of lagers with the Diamond yeast.  I thought it made very good beers.  I have also used S-189 which I consider to have less character than Diamond... the beers were "cleaner" for better or worse.  I also used to keep S-23 around for emergencies and I once made an English Ale where I was going to use harvested 1028 but the prior beer was somehow contaminated so now I had English Ale wort but no yeast so... I used S-23 and made an English Lager!  :D  That was quite a few years ago and I have no recollection about the yeast itself other than it saved my batch.  Also, I love 2124 but I have never used 34/70 which is a supposed to be a dry version of 2124.  If Diamond is similar to 34/70 then that's close enough for me.  I just received a packet of Diamond to keep onhand and also a pack of BRY-97 since I have never tried it.

I love BRY97.  It's become my American gop to when I make large batches, so I din't have to make multiple starters.

Many years ago Chumley, who posts here sometimes, sent me a bottle of my BVIP recipe made with S-23.  He knew I hated it.  In that beer, it was fantastic.  He got me.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Saccharomyces on October 26, 2020, 10:04:37 pm
I just purchased a bunch of dry yeast from RiteBrew in preparation for finally finishing my new brew house.  What is holding me back is that I am in "pay as I go" mode, which means that my brew house build is being funded out of monthly discretionary income.  I still need to purchase a keg refrigerator, a fermentation chamber, and a 240V induction cook top.  I have my eye on a new 3500W induction cook top by Eurodib called the SWI3500.  It is a monster compared to current 240VAC offerings. The induction hob is large enough for a 14" wide kettle to side directly on the glass.  It has five cooling fans.  Most of the other 3500W cook tops have two cooling fans.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Village Taphouse on October 26, 2020, 10:13:02 pm
Ritebrew is excellent.

Last summer I made a bunch of lagers with the Diamond yeast.  I thought it made very good beers.  I have also used S-189 which I consider to have less character than Diamond... the beers were "cleaner" for better or worse.  I also used to keep S-23 around for emergencies and I once made an English Ale where I was going to use harvested 1028 but the prior beer was somehow contaminated so now I had English Ale wort but no yeast so... I used S-23 and made an English Lager!  :D  That was quite a few years ago and I have no recollection about the yeast itself other than it saved my batch.  Also, I love 2124 but I have never used 34/70 which is a supposed to be a dry version of 2124.  If Diamond is similar to 34/70 then that's close enough for me.  I just received a packet of Diamond to keep onhand and also a pack of BRY-97 since I have never tried it.

I love BRY97.  It's become my American gop to when I make large batches, so I din't have to make multiple starters.

Many years ago Chumley, who posts here sometimes, sent me a bottle of my BVIP recipe made with S-23.  He knew I hated it.  In that beer, it was fantastic.  He got me.
I can't remember where I was reading about BRY-97 (maybe here) but there seemed to be a lot of good news.  When I make ales (which might be less than 25% of the time), I use a lot of 1056, White Labs 01 and the occasional English strain (I have 1968 on order now) so BRY-97 seemed like a logical choice for a dry ale yeast.  Denny IIRC, you and I both dislike US-05.  I have gotten that peachy-apricot character from it and I swore never again so that's another sign that BRY-97 might be a good choice. 
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Iliff Ave on October 26, 2020, 10:52:46 pm
I have started pitching 1 pack each of 189 and 34/70 in my lagers.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 26, 2020, 11:14:45 pm
I have started pitching 1 pack each of 189 and 34/70 in my lagers.

I had thought about that, how do you like it?
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: denny on October 27, 2020, 02:44:48 pm
I have started pitching 1 pack each of 189 and 34/70 in my lagers.

I had thought about that, how do you like it?

And how do you know how it will turn out?  Which yeast will dominate?
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Iliff Ave on October 27, 2020, 02:49:15 pm
I have started pitching 1 pack each of 189 and 34/70 in my lagers.

I had thought about that, how do you like it?

And how do you know how it will turn out?  Which yeast will dominate?

You tell me denny
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Iliff Ave on October 27, 2020, 02:50:16 pm
I have started pitching 1 pack each of 189 and 34/70 in my lagers.

I had thought about that, how do you like it?

So far so good. I used it in a festbier that turned out great and it’s working on an amber lager now.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Village Taphouse on October 27, 2020, 03:00:37 pm
I can't remember a time when I used two strains in one batch unless I panicked when I was a newbie and thought the first yeast was slow so I pitched something else.  If that was the case, it would have been so long ago that I wouldn't know the difference anyway.  So when you pitch two strains at once (say, a packet of S-189 and a packet of Diamond), does one yeast take over and you only get THAT character or do both strains work harmoniously and you get character from both strains?
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Iliff Ave on October 27, 2020, 03:05:04 pm
I can't remember a time when I used two strains in one batch unless I panicked when I was a newbie and thought the first yeast was slow so I pitched something else.  If that was the case, it would have been so long ago that I wouldn't know the difference anyway.  So when you pitch two strains at once (say, a packet of S-189 and a packet of Diamond), does one yeast take over and you only get THAT character or do both strains work harmoniously and you get character from both strains?

The most consistent thing I have heard is that one strain will become dominant over successive generations. I haven’t gone further than 2 generations. I’m just a fool though.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: denny on October 27, 2020, 03:14:59 pm
I have started pitching 1 pack each of 189 and 34/70 in my lagers.

I had thought about that, how do you like it?

And how do you know how it will turn out?  Which yeast will dominate?

You tell me denny

I have no answer, which is why I don't do it.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: BrewBama on October 27, 2020, 10:50:13 pm
I never understood pitching two strains.


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Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: tommymorris on October 27, 2020, 11:09:24 pm
I never understood pitching two strains.


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Best of both worlds, maybe? This is homebrewing. There are no rules.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: erockrph on October 28, 2020, 01:15:30 am
I never understood pitching two strains.


Winsor + Notty is a notable exception to this rule, but that has a specific goal in mind (Winsor for its flavor profile and Nottingham for attenuation). I don't think a combination of two lager strains would lead to a huge difference compared to either on their own.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 28, 2020, 01:52:39 am
Some old British breweries use multiculture house yeast. Some have said Timothy Taylor does.

When I toured the Young's Ram Brewery a large open fermenter was shown. There were two yeast rings on the walls. The guide said the one up from the foam was from the fast starting yeast, higher up was from the workhorse strain, what we saw was the finisher that got the FG down.

PU had 5 strains, then selected two, now the have one.

I've thought of splitting a batch, fermenting each part, then blending. Of course I would taste each sample, and blend in a glass first to taste the blend. One might be really good, and the blend dumbed down.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: ynotbrusum on October 28, 2020, 11:36:34 am
I really liked the Diamond yeast, but I have used S-189 as my typical lager strain, because I seek less expression from the yeast and it is the cleanest I have found.  Some supertasters mentioned that they pick up a slight lemon character from 34-70, but I use it anyway.  I assume the lemon is from the hop used, rather than the yeast, but I can’t say for sure since I don’t perceive it at all.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: denny on October 28, 2020, 02:24:06 pm
I never understood pitching two strains.


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Best of both worlds, maybe? This is homebrewing. There are no rules.

No, but there arena lot of things done that make no sense.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Iliff Ave on October 28, 2020, 02:38:23 pm
I never understood pitching two strains.


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Best of both worlds, maybe? This is homebrewing. There are no rules.

No, but there arena lot of things done that make no sense.

Maybe some people like the results they get? That couldn’t be it though right Denny?
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: denny on October 28, 2020, 02:43:12 pm
I never understood pitching two strains.


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Best of both worlds, maybe? This is homebrewing. There are no rules.

No, but there arena lot of things done that make no sense.

Maybe some people like the results they get? That couldn’t be it though right Denny?

I would think that's why they do it.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Village Taphouse on October 28, 2020, 03:32:20 pm
I really liked the Diamond yeast, but I have used S-189 as my typical lager strain, because I seek less expression from the yeast and it is the cleanest I have found.  Some supertasters mentioned that they pick up a slight lemon character from 34-70, but I use it anyway.  I assume the lemon is from the hop used, rather than the yeast, but I can’t say for sure since I don’t perceive it at all.
I agree that the S-189 is very neutral.  Maybe the most neutral lager yeast I have found and that's not necessarily good or bad... it just is.  I get a distinct character from 2124/3470/Diamond that I recognize.  The same is true for Omega Bayern and also for White Labs 940.  These are some of my favorite lager strains and they all have a specific characteristic to me.  When I brewed with S-189 I got very clean-tasting, neutral-flavored beers.  I made a number of them in a row and they were all very good and very neutral.  I think I still have a pack of it in the fridge.  2308/838 is another strain with a very distinct character to me.  I had a beer once (one of the New Glarus beers... maybe Two Women) and I cracked it open, took a swig and said out loud "2308!".  Yes, everyone around me thought I had taken leave of my faculties.  :D 
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: dmtaylor on October 28, 2020, 06:11:13 pm
I get a distinct character from 2124/3470/Diamond that I recognize...

2308/838 is another strain with a very distinct character to me.

FYI -- genomic testing has shown that 2124 is quite distant from the other two, and that 838 is actually a Sacch. cerevisiae strain and thus not even a lager, so it cannot be identical to 2308.

So... it might be helpful to specify which ones you are actually referring to.  OR, it might be noteworthy that these strains are all so darn close to one another that it just doesn't matter what genomics is telling us?!  I honestly don't know which!  :D   8)

References:

http://beer.suregork.com/?p=4112

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/709535v1.article-info
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: denny on October 28, 2020, 06:25:35 pm
I get a distinct character from 2124/3470/Diamond that I recognize...

2308/838 is another strain with a very distinct character to me.

FYI -- genomic testing has shown that 2124 is quite distant from the other two, and that 838 is actually a Sacch. cerevisiae strain and thus not even a lager, so it cannot be identical to 2308.

So... it might be helpful to specify which ones you are actually referring to.  OR, it might be noteworthy that these strains are all so darn close to one another that it just doesn't matter what genomics is telling us?!  I honestly don't know which!  :D   8)

References:

http://beer.suregork.com/?p=4112

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/709535v1.article-info

Genomics is interesting, but the beer doesn't know about it.  All that matters is the taste.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: dmtaylor on October 28, 2020, 07:24:01 pm
All that matters is the taste.

I absolutely cannot argue with this!
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: BrewBama on October 28, 2020, 07:52:46 pm
All that matters is the taste.

I absolutely cannot argue with this!
I’ll second that. Cheers!


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Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Village Taphouse on October 28, 2020, 08:17:16 pm
I was saying that I like 2124 and that it has a very distinct character to my tastebuds.  My understanding was that 34/70 was a dry version of 2124 and also that Diamond was very close to 34/70.  I may be wrong on that.  I have never used 34/70 but many people say it's very similar to 2124 and that the description often has that "most popular lager strain in the world!" comment which 2124 also has.  Diamond seemed very similar to 2124 to me when I used it.  On the 2308/838 thing, I was under the impression they were the same.  I have used 2308 many times but never 838.  I happen to have a packet of 838 in my fridge and it's up next here so I will find out very soon.  Everything I have ever seen comparing the strains says that 2308 and 838 are the same yeast but again... that may not be accurate. 
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: denny on October 28, 2020, 08:24:28 pm
I was saying that I like 2124 and that it has a very distinct character to my tastebuds.  My understanding was that 34/70 was a dry version of 2124 and also that Diamond was very close to 34/70.  I may be wrong on that.  I have never used 34/70 but many people say it's very similar to 2124 and that the description often has that "most popular lager strain in the world!" comment which 2124 also has.  Diamond seemed very similar to 2124 to me when I used it.  On the 2308/838 thing, I was under the impression they were the same.  I have used 2308 many times but never 838.  I happen to have a packet of 838 in my fridge and it's up next here so I will find out very soon.  Everything I have ever seen comparing the strains says that 2308 and 838 are the same yeast but again... that may not be accurate.

Technically, 2124, 34/70 and Diamond all have the same heritage.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Village Taphouse on October 28, 2020, 09:00:42 pm
Technically, 2124, 34/70 and Diamond all have the same heritage.
That's what I understood.  They're derived from a Weihenstephan lager strain.    It's been awhile since I brewed with 2124 but I have some in the house now and it will be used over the winter.  The Diamond that I used [A LOT!] last summer seemed like it had a 2124 character but maybe I'll do an experiment and make two batches back-to-back... one with 2124 and one with Diamond which I also have in the fridge.  That would be interesting. 
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: ynotbrusum on October 28, 2020, 11:58:10 pm
I used 838 regularly when I started brewing lagers, but also for Kölsch - it really shines.  Omega Bayern is a true beast of a lager yeast.  Almost forgot about that one.

This winter I have to make a Dunkel with the Omega Bayern!
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: Village Taphouse on October 29, 2020, 12:37:45 am
I used 838 regularly when I started brewing lagers, but also for Kölsch - it really shines.  Omega Bayern is a true beast of a lager yeast.  Almost forgot about that one.

This winter I have to make a Dunkel with the Omega Bayern!

That's coming up here this weekend.  60/40 Munich 2/Pils plus 3 ounces of Carafa III, Hallertau hops to about 24 IBUs and Omega Bayern.  Looking forward to it. 
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: beersk on October 29, 2020, 03:47:58 pm
I used 838 regularly when I started brewing lagers, but also for Kölsch - it really shines.  Omega Bayern is a true beast of a lager yeast.  Almost forgot about that one.

This winter I have to make a Dunkel with the Omega Bayern!

That's coming up here this weekend.  60/40 Munich 2/Pils plus 3 ounces of Carafa III, Hallertau hops to about 24 IBUs and Omega Bayern.  Looking forward to it. 
That does sound quite good. Enjoy!
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: PORTERHAUS on October 30, 2020, 02:03:26 pm
I was saying that I like 2124 and that it has a very distinct character to my tastebuds.  My understanding was that 34/70 was a dry version of 2124 and also that Diamond was very close to 34/70.  I may be wrong on that.  I have never used 34/70 but many people say it's very similar to 2124 and that the description often has that "most popular lager strain in the world!" comment which 2124 also has.  Diamond seemed very similar to 2124 to me when I used it.  On the 2308/838 thing, I was under the impression they were the same.  I have used 2308 many times but never 838.  I happen to have a packet of 838 in my fridge and it's up next here so I will find out very soon.  Everything I have ever seen comparing the strains says that 2308 and 838 are the same yeast but again... that may not be accurate.

I feel about the same way. I think Diamond is much more similar to the liquid equivalent (2124). 2124 is just a great all around Lager yeast. 34/70 is usually pretty good as well, but I think it's not as similar to 2124 as the Diamond is...especially 34/70 and Diamond side by side. To me, 34/70 takes on a tad bit more American Style Lager style Lager characteristics. On a side note, S-189 is quite different than all of them and is much more malt forward and great in an Oktoberfest, Bock but I haven't tried it in lighter lagers, Pilsners, etc. Perhaps S-189 is more like a Bavarian Lager yeast.
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: ynotbrusum on October 30, 2020, 08:07:18 pm
I was saying that I like 2124 and that it has a very distinct character to my tastebuds.  My understanding was that 34/70 was a dry version of 2124 and also that Diamond was very close to 34/70.  I may be wrong on that.  I have never used 34/70 but many people say it's very similar to 2124 and that the description often has that "most popular lager strain in the world!" comment which 2124 also has.  Diamond seemed very similar to 2124 to me when I used it.  On the 2308/838 thing, I was under the impression they were the same.  I have used 2308 many times but never 838.  I happen to have a packet of 838 in my fridge and it's up next here so I will find out very soon.  Everything I have ever seen comparing the strains says that 2308 and 838 are the same yeast but again... that may not be accurate.

I feel about the same way. I think Diamond is much more similar to the liquid equivalent (2124). 2124 is just a great all around Lager yeast. 34/70 is usually pretty good as well, but I think it's not as similar to 2124 as the Diamond is...especially 34/70 and Diamond side by side. To me, 34/70 takes on a tad bit more American Style Lager style Lager characteristics. On a side note, S-189 is quite different than all of them and is much more malt forward and great in an Oktoberfest, Bock but I haven't tried it in lighter lagers, Pilsners, etc. Perhaps S-189 is more like a Bavarian Lager yeast.

At one time, it was stated that S-189 was from the Swiss brewery Hurliman, the former maker of Samiclaus, but that may have been anecdotal and I have no idea if it has been genetically sequenced at this point.  So much of what we thought we knew is being shown to be other than we thought!
Title: Re: Lallemand Diamond Lager vs. Fermentis S-189 or W-34/70
Post by: BrewBama on October 31, 2020, 12:25:58 am
The mfr claims it came from Hürlimann:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201031/61f4fb829c76fc265ae20cb71215c5d2.jpg)


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