Homebrewers Association | AHA Forum

General Category => Equipment and Software => Topic started by: a_gunslinger on November 14, 2020, 11:22:05 PM

Title: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: a_gunslinger on November 14, 2020, 11:22:05 PM
Sprung for the Anvil Foundry.  Really like it one batch in.  Lots of baked in simplicity and easier cleanup.  I only had one issue.  Brewing a NE-ish-style IPA with a 13/5 pound grain bill - including 2 pounds rice hull to lessen any stuck mash.

Kettle set for 159 with a 153 target when mashed in.  Slowly stir in the grains ....  No change in temp!  Hangs at 159 all in.  I had to paddle stir grains getting some of the bottom hot zones up to top.  Slow temp chnages this way.  Added 1/2 gallon cold water to the mad stir.  Took about 10-12 minutes aggressive stirrring to hit 153.

The few videos I have watched they portray it as much faster.  And was my experience my old methods - 3 tier using converted kegs.

Note, that was 15 yrs ago - just getting back into it  ;D
Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: allenhuerta on November 14, 2020, 11:25:43 PM
I just set my Foundry to a degree or two higher than my mash, stir everything in, set to mash temp, and then start recirculating at about 80% power. I expected large drops, can't explain why it does not.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: a_gunslinger on November 15, 2020, 12:35:26 AM
I was following guidance from a couple Youtube channels, and seemed like a 159 with 13.5 # grain wouild realize a good temp drop.  I was just suprised at the literal no change in temp at all.
Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: Bob357 on November 15, 2020, 03:48:47 AM
The digital readout is very slow to respond due to its location. If you checked the temperature with a thermometer inserted into the mash, you would have seen that the temperature did drop. In time, you'll learn to ignore the digital readout and monitor the actual mash temperature. Once you begin to recirculate, the readout will be closer to the real temperature, but will still fluctuate by several degrees as the element cycles on an off.
Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: erockrph on November 15, 2020, 05:19:10 AM
Yes, the PID is very slow and not particularly accurate either. I'm sure its better if you recirc, but for me I usually have to set the temp a few degrees higher than target when ramping up temps to end up where I want after I stir the mash. Its worse with thicker mashes in my experience. I'd use a separate thermometer and go by that.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: allenhuerta on November 15, 2020, 05:30:27 AM
This does not help for that mash in portion but the built in thermometer is calibrated to read at the "center of the mash".. I don't have much more info on how that is determined but yeah, I recirculate from the very beginning so don't notice any issues.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: ynotbrusum on November 19, 2020, 08:39:00 PM
Through trial and error and experience, I know that the thermometer (Thermapen) inserted into spots at the top of the mash will give me instantaneous results that will line up with the thermostat of the Anvil Foundry control panel eventually.  Recirculating the mash gets the thermostat to the correct reading much faster, but I just don't worry a lot about it anymore; there is no problem using the Thermapen to confirm actual temperature (as long as I get the Thermapen back to my wife's storage location in the kitchen after using it). 

Before adding the grist, I have to remember to adjust the set temperature to the proper mash temp, too, as it will otherwise engage the heating element during the temperature drop from strike to mash.

I asked the manufacturer about re-calibrating the thermostat, but it is not adjustable (and as stated, it eventually reads correctly).
Title: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: tommymorris on November 19, 2020, 10:34:36 PM
So what happens if you set the temp to your mash temp (say 152F), wait until the strike water gets there, and then add grain and stir? How long will it take for the unit to get the mash temp back to 152F? Would doing that have much impact on the beer?

When I had a Grainfather I did that a lot. I was recirculating. It’s like a mini step mash.
Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: ynotbrusum on November 20, 2020, 02:20:41 AM
So what happens if you set the temp to your mash temp (say 152F), wait until the strike water gets there, and then add grain and stir? How long will it take for the unit to get the mash temp back to 152F? Would doing that have much impact on the beer?

When I had a Grainfather I did that a lot. I was recirculating. It’s like a mini step mash.

Yea it works - the actual temp with room temperature mashed-in grist will be about 7 degrees low.  Setting the temp at 152 will get there in a few minutes.  It really isn’t terribly problematic, as long as you confirm temps with a separate thermometer or set it correctly and wait it out.
Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: oginme on November 20, 2020, 03:06:07 PM
My experience with my 6.5 gal Anvil has been that a 2F over target for mash in will end up a degree under desired mash temp based on the reading.  This gets back to target temp in about 2 to 4 minutes without recirculation. 

I have noticed that when mashing in the heat comes on which probably prevents the temperature from dropping too far.

The center of the grain bed is within a degree of the set target after 10 minutes when I turn the pump on to recirculate.
Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: erockrph on November 20, 2020, 09:00:37 PM
My experience with my 6.5 gal Anvil has been that a 2F over target for mash in will end up a degree under desired mash temp based on the reading.  This gets back to target temp in about 2 to 4 minutes without recirculation. 

I have noticed that when mashing in the heat comes on which probably prevents the temperature from dropping too far.

The center of the grain bed is within a degree of the set target after 10 minutes when I turn the pump on to recirculate.
How are your results with step mashing? I can hit my initial mash temp pretty well, but without recirculation I am nowhere close when I step up. My last batch was supposed to be 145 > 162 > 172, and I ended up setting my Anvil to 147 > 175 > 193 to hold the temps I was shooting for.

When I chill I leave the Anvil on to monitor chilling progress. It reads 70 when I'm actually at 66.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: allenhuerta on November 20, 2020, 09:15:30 PM
Not sure if this will help, but from the Foundry Group on FB. The stuff from the FAQ was questions asked and responded to by the man/company.

Edit: Can you see this photo? It's super pixelated on my phone... It's just a screenshot so I'm confused.. uploaded it as "small".

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201120/30f8193307c98a6de45f4ebbc39348ca.jpg)

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: Slowbrew on November 20, 2020, 09:34:16 PM
Not sure if this will help, but from the Foundry Group on FB. The stuff from the FAQ was questions asked and responded to my the man/company.

Edit: Can you see this photo? It's super pixelated on my phone... It's just a screenshot so I'm confused.. uploaded it as "small".

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201120/30f8193307c98a6de45f4ebbc39348ca.jpg)

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

The text looks like Mandarin.  Which is to say, nope can't read it, too pixilated.   :D

Paul
Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: allenhuerta on November 20, 2020, 09:35:30 PM
Let's try medium, thanks Paul (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201120/afd81791aae5abea1c01ed69647faee1.jpg)

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: erockrph on November 20, 2020, 10:22:17 PM
Let's try medium, thanks Paul (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201120/afd81791aae5abea1c01ed69647faee1.jpg)

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
Much better. Thanks for sharing - I'll have to check out the FB group.

As far as being calibrated for the middle of the mash, that leads to more questions than answers for me. Does that mean that I shouldn't be stirring when I hit my step so that temps equilibrate with what the PID is reporting? Does this mean that the temp is actually hotter than the display on the bottom of the kettle, leading to faster denaturing of enzymes? How would it know whether you are recirculating or not? I assume this would lead to less of a temperature gradient, so that might lead to differing temps when comparing the bottom to the middle/top of the mash.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: tommymorris on November 20, 2020, 10:58:14 PM
I think every system is different. You have to learn to control yours to get the beer you want to make. The general rule higher temp for less attenuation and lower temp for higher attenuation still holds, but the temperature set point to achieve the beer you like may not match the temperature set point from your last system.
Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: allenhuerta on November 20, 2020, 11:26:25 PM
Yeah, I can see the concern but I'm not sure the swing is different enough to make major differences. I recirculate so I feel it's of lesser.. or no concern. But for those that just leave it to sit, the beer outcomes would be my personal compass.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: ynotbrusum on November 23, 2020, 08:52:11 PM
Interesting about the mid point calibration.  I will have to pull out a sealed probe unit I use for smoking meats and submerge it to the bottom of the Foundry and get a reading, then pull it halfway up in the mash to see if the unit's set temperature is reflecting the reading with the probe, then pull it to the top of the mash.  I tend to mash 75-90 minutes, and step mash it to get a run through the ranges, so maybe that process is ensuring the conversion I get.  I have recirc'd many times, but I simply don't do it as much anymore, since I was finding no real difference in outcome for the beers.

Still learning and getting used to the unit, I guess.
Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: allenhuerta on November 23, 2020, 09:40:16 PM
I'm be curious to hear your outcomes. I won't do that lol but I am interested. I'm happy with my beers so just going to let it be. And it's a lot less work than my keggle HERMS set up so I'm happy. I've always enjoyed brewing but this unit has brought more joy.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: ynotbrusum on November 23, 2020, 10:15:01 PM
Cheers to more joy - I feel the same.
Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: ynotbrusum on December 05, 2020, 09:43:49 PM
I ordered a Thermoworks waterproof needle probe to run some trials on mash temp 6 gallon strike using 7.25 lbs grist (7 lbs Best Pilsner .25 lbs Acidulated Malt). In a Lichtbier recipe (sparged with one gallon).

Foundry control panel.           Top of mash.     Middle of mash.      Bottom of mash

Strike 157.                              157.5.            157.5.                    157.1

Mash in 155 device reading       149.4            151.                       147.9

Mash rest at 10’.                       149.4.           149.2.                    149.4
Set 149 100%
Read 151.          Mash stirred after readings taken

Mash rest at 40’.                       147.4.           147.2.                    151.5
Set 149 100%
Read 150.           Mash stirred after readings taken

Mash rest at 90’.                       142.2.            150.8.                    150.8
Set 149 100%
Read 150

The long time between the 40’ mark and the 90’ mark allowed for significant cooling of the top portion.  Recirc or more frequent stirring would seemingly eliminate that issue.  Maybe running the element at less than 100% may have helped also to prevent short cycling and more homogenous temp through the whole mash.  Garage was 50F ambient.

                 
Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: tommymorris on December 05, 2020, 09:54:37 PM
I ordered a Thermoworks waterproof needle probe to run some trials on mash temp 6 gallon strike using 7.25 lbs grist (7 lbs Best Pilsner .25 lbs Acidulated Malt). In a Lichtbier recipe (sparged with one gallon).

Foundry control panel.           Top of mash.     Middle of mash.      Bottom of mash

Strike 157.                              157.5.            157.5.                    157.1

Mash in 155 device reading       149.4            151.                       147.9

Mash rest at 10’.                       149.4.           149.2.                    149.4
Set 149 100%
Read 151.          Mash stirred after readings taken

Mash rest at 40’.                       147.4.           147.2.                    151.5
Set 149 100%
Read 150.           Mash stirred after readings taken

Mash rest at 90’.                       142.2.            150.8.                    150.8
Set 149 100%
Read 150

The long time between the 40’ mark and the 90’ mark allowed for significant cooling of the top portion.  Recirc or more frequent stirring would seemingly eliminate that issue.  Maybe running the element at less than 100% may have helped also to prevent short cycling and more homogenous temp through the whole mash.  Garage was 50F ambient.

               
I assume this was without recirculation?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Anvil Foundry - No temp change at mash in?
Post by: ynotbrusum on December 06, 2020, 12:38:30 PM
I ordered a Thermoworks waterproof needle probe to run some trials on mash temp 6 gallon strike using 7.25 lbs grist (7 lbs Best Pilsner .25 lbs Acidulated Malt). In a Lichtbier recipe (sparged with one gallon).

Foundry control panel.           Top of mash.     Middle of mash.      Bottom of mash

Strike 157.                              157.5.            157.5.                    157.1

Mash in 155 device reading       149.4            151.                       147.9

Mash rest at 10’.                       149.4.           149.2.                    149.4
Set 149 100%
Read 151.          Mash stirred after readings taken

Mash rest at 40’.                       147.4.           147.2.                    151.5
Set 149 100%
Read 150.           Mash stirred after readings taken

Mash rest at 90’.                       142.2.            150.8.                    150.8
Set 149 100%
Read 150

The long time between the 40’ mark and the 90’ mark allowed for significant cooling of the top portion.  Recirc or more frequent stirring would seemingly eliminate that issue.  Maybe running the element at less than 100% may have helped also to prevent short cycling and more homogenous temp through the whole mash.  Garage was 50F ambient.

               
I assume this was without recirculation?

Thanks.

Correct - this was simply batch sparged.  Very thin mash, indeed, so that may have helped the temperature to be less stratified....just a hunch.