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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: Saccharomyces on February 12, 2021, 09:42:46 pm

Title: Hop Heaven
Post by: Saccharomyces on February 12, 2021, 09:42:46 pm
What is the scoop on Hop Heaven?  I placed a sizable order last night. I decided to go back to using whole hops for flavor and aroma additions.  I switched to using pellets in my last brew house because purchasing whole hops by the pound does not work very well in a 3-gallon brewery.  Now that I am back to brewing 5-gallon batches combined with the fact that Hop Heaven sells many varieties of whole cones by the half pound, I have decided to go back to using whole cones.  It is not a romantic thing.  I can tell the difference between pellets and whole cones in the beers I brew, especially when it comes to flavor and aroma additions.  The flavors and aromas I obtain from whole cones are soft and round wheres they are brash when using pellets.  It is a different strokes for different folks thing.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Fire Rooster on February 12, 2021, 10:52:49 pm
+1
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Bilsch on February 13, 2021, 01:05:36 am
I've made three orders from Ted so far and the quality has been really great. Hop heaven will get all my business from now on.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: majorvices on February 13, 2021, 02:18:17 am
Ted has great hops. If you like using whole hops you should use them and not write a paragraph apologizing for it.  ;)
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Fire Rooster on February 13, 2021, 11:19:46 am
Going to feel sad  :-[ when my 2020 Mt Hood leaf hops (vacuum sealed & frozen) run out.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Saccharomyces on February 13, 2021, 12:35:50 pm
Ted has great hops. If you like using whole hops you should use them and not write a paragraph apologizing for it.  ;)

Any mention of moving to using whole hops around here usually results in a round of forum members telling the OP how difficult they are going be to use in practice.  I have never found whole hops to be difficult to use.  In fact, I have never bagged whole hops.  On the other hand, pellets have tested my patience in practice. Pellet sludge is almost impossible to keep out of one's fermentation vessel. Whirlpooling helps, but it never results in a totally hop-free post-knockout wort.  It is unbelievably simple to obtain clear wort using whole hops and a false bottom, especially when using an immersion chiller.  Every kettle I have owned up until my current one has had a false bottom (I sent a message to Jay at NorCal to see what he can do for me).  The major drawbacks to using whole instead of pellets are shelf life, package size, and finding a hop supplier that sells cones that have been handled and stored correctly.  Pellets are far more homebrew trade and LHBS friendly.
Title: Hop Heaven
Post by: BrewBama on February 13, 2021, 01:17:18 pm
Ted sells not only whole hops but pellets as well. Great business model, fast service, couldn’t be happier with the outcomes of my purchases from him. I like knowing what yr my hops are harvested and he among others is one way to buy by the yr.

I have a kettle with a removable false bottom from NorCal. Works great. I highly recommend Jay’s work. I believe the business suffered from the fires which sux.

I have used both T-90 pellets and whole cone hops. Both have advantages and disadvantages. I think everyone should try both and see what you think. This is my take:

Whole hops do create a much larger mess to have to deal with IMO. In my experience, the mass of ‘leaflets’ get everywhere for months to come, it hard to get all of them off the Hydra IC, they absorb more wort, and certain varieties are harder to find than pellets. Storage is bulky but I am not so concerned about that. They do filter the grain bed nicely and produce beautiful wort. I haven’t found the ‘rounder’ bitterness some claim. It’s about the same to me.

Pellets on the other hand are very compact, simply rinse off equipment, absorb very little wort, and a larger variety is readily available which is really the big plus. But they do produce sludge which has to be dealt with. I try to get clear wort into the fermenter but if a little trüb gets in its not the end of the world because I don’t harvest yeast. The specialty pellet products marketed now create new possibilities (Lupomax, Cryo, etc).

I made side-by-side hop teas a while back to see the difference. The pellet hop tea was a greenish tint suggesting plant matter was accompanying the Lupulin. The whole cone hop tea was a golden tint suggesting more Lupulin less plant matter. The whole cone hop tea looked more appealing to me.

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Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: HopDen on February 13, 2021, 01:30:17 pm
Can anyone share the web address?
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: BrewBama on February 13, 2021, 01:32:20 pm
Can anyone share the web address?
https://www.ebay.com/str/hopheaveninc


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Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Saccharomyces on February 13, 2021, 01:58:19 pm
I have a kettle with a removable false bottom from NorCal. Works great. I highly recommend Jay’s work. I believe the business suffered from the fires which sux.

Jay made the false bottom for my custom-built 6.75 gallon kettle  He does good work.

 
Quote
Whole hops do create a much larger mess to have to deal with IMO. In my experience, the mass of ‘leaflets’ get everywhere for months to come because it hard to get all of them off the Hydra IC, they absorb more wort, and certain varieties are harder to find than pellets. Storage is bulky but I am not so concerned about that. They do filter the grain bed nicely and produce beautiful wort. I haven’t found the ‘rounder’ bitterness some claim. It’s about the same to me.

I run the first four and half gallons of water from my immersion chiller into a 5-gallon white bucket.  I use that water to clean my immersion chiller.  However, I can see how the design of the Hydra could lead to whole cones getting stuck.   

Quote
Pellets on the other hand are very compact, simply rinse off equipment, absorb very little wort, and a larger variety is readily available which is really the big plus. But they do produce sludge which has to be dealt with. I try to get clear wort into the fermenter but if a little trüb gets in its not the end of the world because I don’t harvest yeast. The specialty pellet products marketed now create new possibilities (Lupomax, Cryo, etc).

More ways have been created to hold back pellet sludge than whole cones.  None of them are 100% effective with an immersion chiller.  The Hop Stopper device that is sold on the Electric Brewery website looks like it works well with pellets, but the kettle has to be drained when the wort is hot.  Using a Hop Stopper with an immersion chiller would result in a kettle that will not drain.  I am a repitcher, so I want my wort going into the kettle as hop and break-free as possible.  That is significantly easier to accomplish with whole cones and a false bottom.

With respect to false bottom designs, I personally believe that a false bottom with a lot of dead space is better for a brew kettle.  I have purchased and sold a lot of gear since I started in the hobby.  The best setup I had for whole hops was a first generation PolarWare brewing kettle with a false bottom that used stainless steel bolts to hold it off of the bottom above the drain port.  The first generation PolarWare kettles did not have a way to attach a pickup tube to the drain port.  There were no threads on the inside like the later PolarWare kettles.  That necessitated having a false bottom that sat above the drain port.  It made for a horrible mash tun, but a great brewing kettle because having more wort below the false bottom resulted in more even heat distribution above and below the false bottom and if one was patient, one could allow the wort to drain out of the hop bed before tipping the kettle to drain the last bit of wort.  In essence, an oversight in the design of the PolarWare kettle yielded a better false bottom + whole cone design.  Also, I have found that false bottom worth larger diameter holes than are normally used for a mash tun false bottom works better for a kettle false bottom.


Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: HopDen on February 13, 2021, 02:17:29 pm
Thanks BrewBama!
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: denny on February 13, 2021, 03:41:30 pm
I've been buying hops from Ted since before he officially had a business for it.  Always great quality and service.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: majorvices on February 13, 2021, 03:41:43 pm
Ted has great hops. If you like using whole hops you should use them and not write a paragraph apologizing for it.  ;)

Any mention of moving to using whole hops around here usually results in a round of forum members telling the OP how difficult they are going be to use in practice.  I have never found whole hops to be difficult to use.  In fact, I have never bagged whole hops.  On the other hand, pellets have tested my patience in practice. Pellet sludge is almost impossible to keep out of one's fermentation vessel. Whirlpooling helps, but it never results in a totally hop-free post-knockout wort.  It is unbelievably simple to obtain clear wort using whole hops and a false bottom, especially when using an immersion chiller.  Every kettle I have owned up until my current one has had a false bottom (I sent a message to Jay at NorCal to see what he can do for me).  The major drawbacks to using whole instead of pellets are shelf life, package size, and finding a hop supplier that sells cones that have been handled and stored correctly.  Pellets are far more homebrew trade and LHBS friendly.

I was just yankin' yer chain. ;) Also, pellets are better.  :P
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: denny on February 13, 2021, 03:44:00 pm
Ted has great hops. If you like using whole hops you should use them and not write a paragraph apologizing for it.  ;)

Any mention of moving to using whole hops around here usually results in a round of forum members telling the OP how difficult they are going be to use in practice.  I have never found whole hops to be difficult to use.  In fact, I have never bagged whole hops.  On the other hand, pellets have tested my patience in practice. Pellet sludge is almost impossible to keep out of one's fermentation vessel. Whirlpooling helps, but it never results in a totally hop-free post-knockout wort.  It is unbelievably simple to obtain clear wort using whole hops and a false bottom, especially when using an immersion chiller.  Every kettle I have owned up until my current one has had a false bottom (I sent a message to Jay at NorCal to see what he can do for me).  The major drawbacks to using whole instead of pellets are shelf life, package size, and finding a hop supplier that sells cones that have been handled and stored correctly.  Pellets are far more homebrew trade and LHBS friendly.

I was just yankin' yer chain. ;) Also, pellets are better.  :P

EVERYBODY knows that!   ;)
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Saccharomyces on February 13, 2021, 07:01:01 pm
Any mention of moving to using whole hops around here usually results in a round of forum members telling the OP how difficult they are going be to use in practice.  I have never found whole hops to be difficult to use.  In fact, I have never bagged whole hops.  On the other hand, pellets have tested my patience in practice. Pellet sludge is almost impossible to keep out of one's fermentation vessel. Whirlpooling helps, but it never results in a totally hop-free post-knockout wort.  It is unbelievably simple to obtain clear wort using whole hops and a false bottom, especially when using an immersion chiller.  Every kettle I have owned up until my current one has had a false bottom (I sent a message to Jay at NorCal to see what he can do for me).  The major drawbacks to using whole instead of pellets are shelf life, package size, and finding a hop supplier that sells cones that have been handled and stored correctly.  Pellets are far more homebrew trade and LHBS friendly.

I was just yankin' yer chain. ;) Also, pellets are better.  :P

EVERYBODY knows that!   ;)
[/quote]

Pellets have a lot more upsides than downside, that is, if they work for a brewer.  The "hop pellet" gene must be missing from my genome. :)
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Wilbur on February 13, 2021, 08:24:50 pm
Ebay occasionally runs promotions (10-20% off). Great way to get an even better price on hops.

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Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Saccharomyces on February 16, 2021, 08:25:27 pm
For those who have ordered from Hop Heaven, how long did it take for your hops to ship.  I understand that Hop Heaven is a side business, so I am being patient. However, I placed my order on the 11th, the shipping label was created on the 12th, but the hops have yet to be received by the USPS.  I am hoping that it is just an oversight on the part of the USPS.  I have had packages show up on my doorstep that were never marked as being received by the USPS.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: denny on February 16, 2021, 08:27:51 pm
For those who have ordered from Hop Heaven, how long did it take for your hops to ship.  I understand that Hop Heaven is a side business, so I am being patient. However, I placed my order on the 11th, the shipping label was created on the 12th, but the hops have yet to be received by the USPS.  I am hoping that it is just an oversight on the part of the USPS.  I have had packages show up on my doorstep that were never marked as being received by the USPS.

If you ordered continental hops, it can take longer
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: erockrph on February 16, 2021, 08:47:15 pm
For those who have ordered from Hop Heaven, how long did it take for your hops to ship.  I understand that Hop Heaven is a side business, so I am being patient. However, I placed my order on the 11th, the shipping label was created on the 12th, but the hops have yet to be received by the USPS.  I am hoping that it is just an oversight on the part of the USPS.  I have had packages show up on my doorstep that were never marked as being received by the USPS.
I think his continental hops are just coming in now. I had some Slovenian hops in my pre-order this season and just got notified that they came in on the 10th. I'm guessing Ted is setting up his orders to ship as we speak.

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Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Saccharomyces on February 16, 2021, 10:29:45 pm
I figured that something may have side-tracked him.  Hop Heaven appears to be a very big side gig.  If this purchase works out for me, I am probably going to stick with Ted.  The hop cultivars that I like the most were developed by USDA Corvallis for Oregon's climate.  I have never been to Oregon, but it has to be the greenest state in the union.

Denny, would you describe the Willamette Valley as a maritime climate?
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: erockrph on February 16, 2021, 11:08:28 pm
He did mention that the Galena was very nice this year. Sounds right up your alley.

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Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Bilsch on February 17, 2021, 04:46:25 am
My fav is his Edelweiss blend.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Village Taphouse on February 17, 2021, 02:11:31 pm
I've gotten Edelweiss and Saaz and Ted also threw in some C-148 (gratis) and I posted about those here.  He calls them an IPA hop but I just made a standard APA and they were very nice.  I believe I also have some Hallertau from Ted as well.  All of the hops seem to be in excellent shape and I commented about how some additional attention may be necessary (by me!) to ensure that every batch I make has the best possible hops in it.  If the hops I am using don't come from Hop Heaven then they're from YVH.  No more "LHBS repackaged hops" for me.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: denny on February 17, 2021, 04:10:15 pm
I figured that something may have side-tracked him.  Hop Heaven appears to be a very big side gig.  If this purchase works out for me, I am probably going to stick with Ted.  The hop cultivars that I like the most were developed by USDA Corvallis for Oregon's climate.  I have never been to Oregon, but it has to be the greenest state in the union.

Denny, would you describe the Willamette Valley as a maritime climate?

No, to me that's more coastal.  It used to be the greenest state before things changed and we started having major droughts.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: denny on February 17, 2021, 04:11:46 pm
I've gotten Edelweiss and Saaz and Ted also threw in some C-148 (gratis) and I posted about those here.  He calls them an IPA hop but I just made a standard APA and they were very nice.  I believe I also have some Hallertau from Ted as well.  All of the hops seem to be in excellent shape and I commented about how some additional attention may be necessary (by me!) to ensure that every batch I make has the best possible hops in it.  If the hops I am using don't come from Hop Heaven then they're from YVH.  No more "LHBS repackaged hops" for me.

Don't forget Yakima Chief.  In my experience their hops are at least as good as the other 2.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: erockrph on February 17, 2021, 04:51:08 pm
I've gotten Edelweiss and Saaz and Ted also threw in some C-148 (gratis) and I posted about those here.  He calls them an IPA hop but I just made a standard APA and they were very nice.  I believe I also have some Hallertau from Ted as well.  All of the hops seem to be in excellent shape and I commented about how some additional attention may be necessary (by me!) to ensure that every batch I make has the best possible hops in it.  If the hops I am using don't come from Hop Heaven then they're from YVH.  No more "LHBS repackaged hops" for me.

Don't forget Yakima Chief.  In my experience their hops are at least as good as the other 2.
YCH hops are great if you are confident in the storage prior to getting your hands on them. The hardware store near my house keeps them on the shelf next to the dry yeast, so I steer clear of theirs. But when I've gotten ones that were stored properly they have been every bit as good as Hop Heaven, YVH, Farmhouse, Hops Direct, etc.

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Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: denny on February 17, 2021, 04:56:15 pm
I've gotten Edelweiss and Saaz and Ted also threw in some C-148 (gratis) and I posted about those here.  He calls them an IPA hop but I just made a standard APA and they were very nice.  I believe I also have some Hallertau from Ted as well.  All of the hops seem to be in excellent shape and I commented about how some additional attention may be necessary (by me!) to ensure that every batch I make has the best possible hops in it.  If the hops I am using don't come from Hop Heaven then they're from YVH.  No more "LHBS repackaged hops" for me.

Don't forget Yakima Chief.  In my experience their hops are at least as good as the other 2.
YCH hops are great if you are confident in the storage prior to getting your hands on them. The hardware store near my house keeps them on the shelf next to the dry yeast, so I steer clear of theirs. But when I've gotten ones that were stored properly they have been every bit as good as Hop Heaven, YVH, Farmhouse, Hops Direct, etc.

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Last I knew they had a web store so you can order direct.

https://shop.yakimachief.com/
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Saccharomyces on February 17, 2021, 09:50:40 pm
He did mention that the Galena was very nice this year. Sounds right up your alley.

I saw that he had whole Galena.  I decided to order whole Magnum instead, mainly because Ted is offering whole Magnum in 8oz packages whereas Galena is only offered by the pound. It would take me two years to work through a pound of Galena.  While Galena has excellent storage properties, I prefer to be able to use a bag of whole cones within year.  Magnum was bred from Galena.  The cultivars are not quite the same, but they are both neutral, smooth bittering hops.  What is weird is that I used to be a dyed-in-the-wool Perle brewer until Mark Garetz turned me on to Galena.  I like Perle too, but it is not as versatile as Galena or Magnum when it comes to bittering.  Perle has that mintiness to it that carries through to the end of the boil.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: erockrph on February 17, 2021, 10:49:11 pm
I've gotten Edelweiss and Saaz and Ted also threw in some C-148 (gratis) and I posted about those here.  He calls them an IPA hop but I just made a standard APA and they were very nice.  I believe I also have some Hallertau from Ted as well.  All of the hops seem to be in excellent shape and I commented about how some additional attention may be necessary (by me!) to ensure that every batch I make has the best possible hops in it.  If the hops I am using don't come from Hop Heaven then they're from YVH.  No more "LHBS repackaged hops" for me.

Don't forget Yakima Chief.  In my experience their hops are at least as good as the other 2.
YCH hops are great if you are confident in the storage prior to getting your hands on them. The hardware store near my house keeps them on the shelf next to the dry yeast, so I steer clear of theirs. But when I've gotten ones that were stored properly they have been every bit as good as Hop Heaven, YVH, Farmhouse, Hops Direct, etc.

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Last I knew they had a web store so you can order direct.

https://shop.yakimachief.com/
Well, there goes my "no more hops" resolution. ;D

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Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: BrewBama on February 17, 2021, 11:11:08 pm
I've gotten Edelweiss and Saaz and Ted also threw in some C-148 (gratis) and I posted about those here.  He calls them an IPA hop but I just made a standard APA and they were very nice.  I believe I also have some Hallertau from Ted as well.  All of the hops seem to be in excellent shape and I commented about how some additional attention may be necessary (by me!) to ensure that every batch I make has the best possible hops in it.  If the hops I am using don't come from Hop Heaven then they're from YVH.  No more "LHBS repackaged hops" for me.

Don't forget Yakima Chief.  In my experience their hops are at least as good as the other 2.
YCH hops are great if you are confident in the storage prior to getting your hands on them. The hardware store near my house keeps them on the shelf next to the dry yeast, so I steer clear of theirs. But when I've gotten ones that were stored properly they have been every bit as good as Hop Heaven, YVH, Farmhouse, Hops Direct, etc.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Last I knew they had a web store so you can order direct.

https://shop.yakimachief.com/
+1. I can vouch for fast shipping. Great source for hops.


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Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Village Taphouse on February 18, 2021, 03:20:03 pm
I've gotten Edelweiss and Saaz and Ted also threw in some C-148 (gratis) and I posted about those here.  He calls them an IPA hop but I just made a standard APA and they were very nice.  I believe I also have some Hallertau from Ted as well.  All of the hops seem to be in excellent shape and I commented about how some additional attention may be necessary (by me!) to ensure that every batch I make has the best possible hops in it.  If the hops I am using don't come from Hop Heaven then they're from YVH.  No more "LHBS repackaged hops" for me.

Don't forget Yakima Chief.  In my experience their hops are at least as good as the other 2.
I seem to have gotten into bed with YVH and I get their emails regularly.  I have ordered from YCH too with good results.  I mentioned in another thread that I need to be more mindful of the condition of my hops and only use hops that seem like they're going to make the best possible beer.  It's not like I was using BAD hops but I may have used hops that were just not as punchy and I need to watch that.  I can tell the difference between regular LHBS hops and those that come from HH and YVH.  I probably also have a soft spot for YVH because they had a $5-per-pound sale once and another brewer went to order FIVE POUNDS and the total came to $5.  He notified YVH and told them their site wasn't calculating properly and they responded saying "NOPE!  EVERYTHING IS WORKING PROPERLY!"... as a result we both got five pounds of Hallertau for FIVE DOLLARS!!!!  :O
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Saccharomyces on February 21, 2021, 12:35:20 am
I have not purchased hops from a LHBS since I started purchasing hops in bulk from Mark Garetz (HopTech) back in the nineties.  I was glad to discover that Ted offers some varieties in whole form in 8oz packages.  I am not a hop head. I usually hop conservatively, so 8oz of any given hop cultivar lasts a long time.  With whole cones, that can be a problem.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: HopDen on February 21, 2021, 03:51:53 pm
For those who have ordered from Hop Heaven, how long did it take for your hops to ship.  I understand that Hop Heaven is a side business, so I am being patient. However, I placed my order on the 11th, the shipping label was created on the 12th, but the hops have yet to be received by the USPS.  I am hoping that it is just an oversight on the part of the USPS.  I have had packages show up on my doorstep that were never marked as being received by the USPS.

I ordered 2lbs on the 17th and per seller ETA is 22nd. I live in Ohio so I don't think 5 days is too long.
Title: Hop Heaven
Post by: BrewBama on February 21, 2021, 04:05:09 pm
I have not purchased hops from a LHBS since I started purchasing hops in bulk from Mark Garetz (HopTech) back in the nineties.  I was glad to discover that Ted offers some varieties in whole form in 8oz packages.  I am not a hop head. I usually hop conservatively, so 8oz of any given hop cultivar lasts a long time.  With whole cones, that can be a problem.
Weather may have impacted your delivery. I recently had a two day delay.

...  If the hops I am using don't come from Hop Heaven then they're from YVH.  No more "LHBS repackaged hops" for me.

Don't forget Yakima Chief.  In my experience their hops are at least as good as the other 2.
I have always received great hops from Yakima Chief but YVH, Hop Heaven (maybe others?) lets you choose the year of harvest which I like.

Also, YVH gives me a Mil Discount which helps ease the shipping rate.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: chumley on February 22, 2021, 11:17:54 pm
Galena is a$$.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: BrewBama on February 23, 2021, 04:32:13 am
Galena is a$$.
Can you expand on this?  Does this mean you don’t like it?


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Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: pete b on February 23, 2021, 12:07:13 pm
Galena is a$$.
Can you expand on this?  Does this mean you don’t like it?


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Maybe to the cool kids a$$ written like that if like “phat”?
I think galena is an excellent bittering hop.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Village Taphouse on February 23, 2021, 02:40:26 pm
I know I mentioned this before and I don't want to derail the thread but in the past I have made some pilsnery and/or helles-like beers where I used something like Hallertau, Tettnanger, Saaz, etc. and the beer came out tasting a little flat and sort of dirty.  It wasn't contaminated but it just wasn't right.  Thinking back, it's very possible that the cause was old, mishandled, poorly-stored hops that just didn't have that fresh, vibrant character.  Sometimes you open a bag of hops and the pellets look old and dry and are not aromatic.  It's not ALARM BELLS "bad" but they're not fresh.  When I open hops from YVH or HH, the pellets are super green, aromatic and usually the pellets are sticky and stuck together.  That seems like a good indicator to me.  I literally threw out brand new packages of Goldings, Hallertau and Tettnanger recently that I got from MoreBeer (their Artisan brand of hops) because their aroma was off and they just looked old and dry.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: goose on February 23, 2021, 04:58:47 pm
For those who have ordered from Hop Heaven, how long did it take for your hops to ship.  I understand that Hop Heaven is a side business, so I am being patient. However, I placed my order on the 11th, the shipping label was created on the 12th, but the hops have yet to be received by the USPS.  I am hoping that it is just an oversight on the part of the USPS.  I have had packages show up on my doorstep that were never marked as being received by the USPS.

I ordered 2lbs on the 17th and per seller ETA is 22nd. I live in Ohio so I don't think 5 days is too long.

Where do you live in Ohio?  Just curious.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: denny on February 23, 2021, 05:21:21 pm
I received my hops yesterday.  They were pellets and some continental varieties.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: chumley on February 23, 2021, 08:25:56 pm
To my tastes, Galena imparts a "metallic" flavor, for wont of a better word. I suspect that's why the original growers named it after lead sulfide. :o

Much better bittering hop options than Galena are out there. Cluster, Northern Brewer, Northdown, Magnum, Horizon, Warrior, Perle, Kazbek just to name a couple off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: erockrph on February 23, 2021, 08:41:28 pm
To my tastes, Galena imparts a "metallic" flavor, for wont of a better word. I suspect that's why the original growers named it after lead sulfide. :o

Much better bittering hop options than Galena are out there. Cluster, Northern Brewer, Northdown, Magnum, Horizon, Warrior, Perle, Kazbek just to name a couple off the top of my head.
I know exactly what you're talking about, although I don't necessarily consider it a negative. I get it from Nugget as well, and I tend to use Nugget as a 60 minute addition in  West Coast IPAs and certain Porters because of this type of bite that it has.

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Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: HopDen on February 24, 2021, 05:00:40 pm
For those who have ordered from Hop Heaven, how long did it take for your hops to ship.  I understand that Hop Heaven is a side business, so I am being patient. However, I placed my order on the 11th, the shipping label was created on the 12th, but the hops have yet to be received by the USPS.  I am hoping that it is just an oversight on the part of the USPS.  I have had packages show up on my doorstep that were never marked as being received by the USPS.

I ordered 2lbs on the 17th and per seller ETA is 22nd. I live in Ohio so I don't think 5 days is too long.

Where do you live in Ohio?  Just curious.

Cortland. Its about 15 minutes north of Warren. I also didn't receive my hops yet. But that's ok, I don't need them until next weekend.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: HopDen on February 24, 2021, 05:02:47 pm
For those who have ordered from Hop Heaven, how long did it take for your hops to ship.  I understand that Hop Heaven is a side business, so I am being patient. However, I placed my order on the 11th, the shipping label was created on the 12th, but the hops have yet to be received by the USPS.  I am hoping that it is just an oversight on the part of the USPS.  I have had packages show up on my doorstep that were never marked as being received by the USPS.

I ordered 2lbs on the 17th and per seller ETA is 22nd. I live in Ohio so I don't think 5 days is too long.

Where do you live in Ohio?  Just curious.

Cortland. Its about 15 minutes north of Warren. I also didn't receive my hops yet. But that's ok, I don't need them until next weekend.

I see you're from Wooster. We were there last year for water license contact hours and afterwards I made it a point to visit JAFB. Enjoyed it!
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: goose on February 25, 2021, 02:14:43 pm
For those who have ordered from Hop Heaven, how long did it take for your hops to ship.  I understand that Hop Heaven is a side business, so I am being patient. However, I placed my order on the 11th, the shipping label was created on the 12th, but the hops have yet to be received by the USPS.  I am hoping that it is just an oversight on the part of the USPS.  I have had packages show up on my doorstep that were never marked as being received by the USPS.

I ordered 2lbs on the 17th and per seller ETA is 22nd. I live in Ohio so I don't think 5 days is too long.

Where do you live in Ohio?  Just curious.

Cortland. Its about 15 minutes north of Warren. I also didn't receive my hops yet. But that's ok, I don't need them until next weekend.

I see you're from Wooster. We were there last year for water license contact hours and afterwards I made it a point to visit JAFB. Enjoyed it!

I live about three miles (as the crow flies) from JAFB.  Paul is a really good brewer and has won many medals for his IPA's.  Glad you liked it!
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Fire Rooster on February 25, 2021, 02:43:43 pm
Received one pound of 2020 Galena leaf hops from Hop Heaven, price was very reasonable.
Shipping time from ordering was acceptable.  They're at the mercy
of the USPS.  I've had packages shipped using the USPS that was
shipped between two centers several times before arriving.

1.  Didn't think leaf hops could be packed so tight, they were double vacuum sealed
2.  Smell great and have a lovely aroma
3.  Chewed on one, pleasant at first, then the hop oils took over my tongue.
4.  I can see why if used heavily handed, there would be a perceived metallic taste (not quite though).
5.  Used sparingly for bittering, I believe they will be fine, I'll use my Mt Hood for flavor and aroma.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Village Taphouse on February 25, 2021, 04:00:20 pm
You see ads where the brewer holds up handfuls of hops and holds them to his nose or maybe Jim Koch of Sam Adams going to Germany to check the hops growing in the field, etc.  As homebrewers we want the best hops we can possibly get just like those guys and hops are just like anything else... there are good and bad, people who really go through the extra effort to make sure they're fresh, etc.  I feel like hops I get from HH are going to be excellent every time.  I remember going to a LHBS that was near one of my customers.  I went in there one day and there was a large metal bowl filled with hop pellets and some small bags nearby.  Someone was putting the bulk hops into 1-ounce bags.  I remember coming back the next day because I forgot something and the bowl was still in the same spot from the day before.  They didn't seem to care whether the hops were exposed to oxygen, etc. and their packaging did not involve vac-sealing, O2-purging, etc. 
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Fire Rooster on February 25, 2021, 04:29:44 pm
Immediately after opening hops, they were split into different increments, then vacuum sealed.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Saccharomyces on February 26, 2021, 01:08:52 am
To my tastes, Galena imparts a "metallic" flavor, for wont of a better word. I suspect that's why the original growers named it after lead sulfide. :o

I used Galena as my primary bittering hop for a decade and never experienced metallic flavors from the hop. However, I always used whole cones from reputable suppliers on the West Coast.  My experience with Galena has been that it provides clean, mellow, back of the mouth bitterness that does not clash with even the most delicate finishing hops. The hop oil responsible for metallic flavors is myrcene.  Galena is very much middle of the pack when it comes to myrcene content.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Saccharomyces on February 26, 2021, 01:12:33 am
1.  Didn't think leaf hops could be packed so tight, they were double vacuum sealed

My hops arrived on Tuesday.  I contacted Ted when they did not arrive by the time eBay stated.  He was completely professional about it.  It appears that one of his employees printed the label, but never shipped the hops.

With that said, I have never seen whole hops vacuum sealed as tightly as the hops I received from Ted. They must have a monster of a vacuum sealer.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Fire Rooster on February 26, 2021, 01:57:49 pm
1.  Didn't think leaf hops could be packed so tight, they were double vacuum sealed

My hops arrived on Tuesday.  I contacted Ted when they did not arrive by the time eBay stated.  He was completely professional about it.  It appears that one of his employees printed the label, but never shipped the hops.

With that said, I have never seen whole hops vacuum sealed as tightly as the hops I received from Ted. They must have a monster of a vacuum sealer.

Not only a monster vacuum sealer, but some device/machine to compress so tightly.
Very little oxygen exposed to those hops, also lessens the size for shipping.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: BrewBama on February 26, 2021, 02:04:41 pm
Ted’s hops remind me of my grandfather’s chewing tobacco. It was packed so tight he had to cut a plug off his pouch. I still remember that old pocket knife.


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Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Village Taphouse on February 26, 2021, 03:19:14 pm
Ted’s hops remind me of my grandfather’s chewing tobacco. It was packed so tight he had to cut a plug off his pouch. I still remember that old pocket knife.
I've noticed this and usually the YVH are like this too.  They're all stuck together and I feel like the stickiness is a sign that they're fresh. 
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Saccharomyces on February 26, 2021, 04:05:44 pm
If the hops I received brew as well as the amount of attention to detail provided by Ted and his crew,  Hop Heaven is going to be my preferred hop provider. 
Title: Hop Heaven
Post by: BrewBama on February 26, 2021, 04:55:29 pm
Ted’s hops remind me of my grandfather’s chewing tobacco. It was packed so tight he had to cut a plug off his pouch. I still remember that old pocket knife.
I've noticed this and usually the YVH are like this too.  They're all stuck together and I feel like the stickiness is a sign that they're fresh.
The YVH packages look like they are tightly vacuum sealed. With a 2020 harvest date I can imagine they will be as fresh as i can get without harvesting myself.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Village Taphouse on February 26, 2021, 08:25:17 pm
Ted’s hops remind me of my grandfather’s chewing tobacco. It was packed so tight he had to cut a plug off his pouch. I still remember that old pocket knife.
I've noticed this and usually the YVH are like this too.  They're all stuck together and I feel like the stickiness is a sign that they're fresh.
The YVH packages look like they are tightly vacuum sealed. With a 2020 harvest date I can imagine they will be as fresh as i can get without harvesting myself.
BB:  When you open a package, do you vac-seal it again before you throw it back into the freezer?  I picked up a $35 vac-sealer from Amazon and I feel like it's the only way to store hops.  I've had some super-fresh varieties remain super-fresh for long periods because of the vac-sealing.  When I see really fresh hops like this I feel like it's time to brew your favorite style (for me that might be helles or pilsner or some combination of the two) and just sit back and enjoy a favorite style with the freshest hops you can get. 
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: neuse on February 26, 2021, 08:37:39 pm
BB:  When you open a package, do you vac-seal it again before you throw it back into the freezer?  I picked up a $35 vac-sealer from Amazon and I feel like it's the only way to store hops.  I've had some super-fresh varieties remain super-fresh for long periods because of the vac-sealing.  When I see really fresh hops like this I feel like it's time to brew your favorite style (for me that might be helles or pilsner or some combination of the two) and just sit back and enjoy a favorite style with the freshest hops you can get. 
I normally buy 2 oz packages and use the whole package for aroma hops. For bittering hops I just squeeze out the air and reseal. It seems to work well.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: BrewBama on February 26, 2021, 08:37:43 pm
Yes, I’ve been using the Food Saver. Sometimes I have to take the hops out of the original package and put them in a Food Saver bag.


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Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: BrewBama on February 26, 2021, 08:42:36 pm
To my tastes, Galena imparts a "metallic" flavor, for wont of a better word. I suspect that's why the original growers named it after lead sulfide. :o

Much better bittering hop options than Galena are out there. Cluster, Northern Brewer, Northdown, Magnum, Horizon, Warrior, Perle, Kazbek just to name a couple off the top of my head.
I know exactly what you're talking about, although I don't necessarily consider it a negative. I get it from Nugget as well, and I tend to use Nugget as a 60 minute addition in  West Coast IPAs and certain Porters because of this type of bite that it has.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Do you think gypsum enhances this metallic-ness?  I understand harshness can result from using gypsum with noble hops. Maybe Galena also reacts negatively and likes CaCl better.


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Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: erockrph on February 27, 2021, 02:12:11 pm
To my tastes, Galena imparts a "metallic" flavor, for wont of a better word. I suspect that's why the original growers named it after lead sulfide. :o

Much better bittering hop options than Galena are out there. Cluster, Northern Brewer, Northdown, Magnum, Horizon, Warrior, Perle, Kazbek just to name a couple off the top of my head.
I know exactly what you're talking about, although I don't necessarily consider it a negative. I get it from Nugget as well, and I tend to use Nugget as a 60 minute addition in  West Coast IPAs and certain Porters because of this type of bite that it has.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
Do you think gypsum enhances this metallic-ness?  I understand harshness can result from using gypsum with noble hops. Maybe Galena also reacts negatively and likes CaCl better.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yes, I definitely notice more metallic hop character in beers where I target 250-300ppm of sulfate than when I target the 150ppm ballpark.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: narcout on April 25, 2021, 04:26:54 pm
I ordered these from Hop Heaven on Wednesday, and they arrived Saturday.  Looking forward to trying them out

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ff164/narcout/unnamed(3).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ff164/narcout/unnamed(3).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Village Taphouse on April 25, 2021, 07:24:46 pm
I ordered these from Hop Heaven on Wednesday, and they arrived Saturday.  Looking forward to trying them out

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ff164/narcout/unnamed(3).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ff164/narcout/unnamed(3).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
Please let us know how they look, feel and smell (and came out in a beer).  I have been rubbing my chin about some of the hops that Ted has and wondered about getting some and these were one variety I was interested in.  His US Saaz, Edelweiss and the C-148 were all excellent.  Ted is turning me into a hop snob.   8)
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Fire Rooster on June 08, 2021, 02:13:34 pm
Ordered (Hop Heaven) 8oz Magnum 2020 pellets for bittering, and 1 lb Mt Hood 2020
pellets for flavor/aroma.  Would use leaf hops if I had a larger kettle with a false
bottom, using spent hops as a filter bed.  Also Ordered small vacuum sealer bags to
freeze/fridge small amounts.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Village Taphouse on June 08, 2021, 03:17:22 pm
Ordered (Hop Heaven) 8oz Magnum 2020 pellets for bittering, and 1 lb Mt Hood 2020
pellets for flavor/aroma.  Would use leaf hops if I had a larger kettle with a false
bottom, using spent hops as a filter bed.  Also Ordered small vacuum sealer bags to
freeze/fridge small amounts.

This was one of my clutch purchases.  I was not being vigilant with storing my hops but I have had this thing for 4-5 years now and hops get vac-sealed here now.  When I need some I just open the bag, weigh them out and vac them back up. 
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Fire Rooster on June 08, 2021, 04:47:47 pm
Ordered (Hop Heaven) 8oz Magnum 2020 pellets for bittering, and 1 lb Mt Hood 2020
pellets for flavor/aroma.  Would use leaf hops if I had a larger kettle with a false
bottom, using spent hops as a filter bed.  Also Ordered small vacuum sealer bags to
freeze/fridge small amounts.

This was one of my clutch purchases.  I was not being vigilant with storing my hops but I have had this thing for 4-5 years now and hops get vac-sealed here now.  When I need some I just open the bag, weigh them out and vac them back up.

The standard size for vacuum seal bags is way too big for 1/2 oz of pellet hops.
Ordered 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 bags, might be too small, will order next size up if so.
Tried cutting the bags smaller, but wouldn't seal.  Avoiding what your going
through, opening then resealing.  I did that a few times, and didn't get a fuzzy
feeling doing it.  Bought the small bags on amazon for 10 bucks, next size up
was more.  I think the next vacuum sealed hops will go in fridge, use them
within a year, or chuck.  Over cautious or OCD, whichever, if grains, hops, or
yeast look at me sideways, they get chucked.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: BrewBama on June 08, 2021, 05:01:46 pm
I vacuum seal left over hops and throw them in the deep freeze.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Village Taphouse on June 08, 2021, 05:24:33 pm
Ordered (Hop Heaven) 8oz Magnum 2020 pellets for bittering, and 1 lb Mt Hood 2020
pellets for flavor/aroma.  Would use leaf hops if I had a larger kettle with a false
bottom, using spent hops as a filter bed.  Also Ordered small vacuum sealer bags to
freeze/fridge small amounts.

This was one of my clutch purchases.  I was not being vigilant with storing my hops but I have had this thing for 4-5 years now and hops get vac-sealed here now.  When I need some I just open the bag, weigh them out and vac them back up.

The standard size for vacuum seal bags is way too big for 1/2 oz of pellet hops.
Ordered 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 bags, might be too small, will order next size up if so.
Tried cutting the bags smaller, but wouldn't seal.  Avoiding what your going
through, opening then resealing.  I did that a few times, and didn't get a fuzzy
feeling doing it.  Bought the small bags on amazon for 10 bucks, next size up
was more.  I think the next vacuum sealed hops will go in fridge, use them
within a year, or chuck.  Over cautious or OCD, whichever, if grains, hops, or
yeast look at me sideways, they get chucked.
I bought bag material that comes on a roll.  You can make whatever sized bag you need.  Seal one end (sometimes I do a double or triple seal to make sure it's good) add the hops and seal the other end (sometimes double or triple again) and just leave enough bag so you could cut it open, weigh out more hops and seal it again and have enough material to do that. 

I vacuum seal left over hops and throw them in the deep freeze.
Same. 
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: denny on June 08, 2021, 05:24:58 pm
I vacuum seal left over hops and throw them in the deep freeze.

THIS
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: davidw on June 10, 2021, 03:09:36 pm

Where do you live in Ohio?  Just curious.

Cortland. Its about 15 minutes north of Warren. I also didn't receive my hops yet. But that's ok, I don't need them until next weekend.
[/quote]

Right up the road from you in Kinsman, woop!!
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Cliffs on June 10, 2021, 04:11:54 pm
I ordered these from Hop Heaven on Wednesday, and they arrived Saturday.  Looking forward to trying them out

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ff164/narcout/unnamed(3).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ff164/narcout/unnamed(3).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
I used to use alot of styrian goldings from Hop Heaven. They were always in good condition and performed well. They're a classic hop. I stopped when I found that domestic "noble" hops were usually just as good, if not better and made me feel a little bit better supporting domestic farmers. I am brewing alot with Hop Heavens Liberty hops and holy cow are they amazing.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: HopDen on June 10, 2021, 05:12:04 pm

Where do you live in Ohio?  Just curious.

Cortland. Its about 15 minutes north of Warren. I also didn't receive my hops yet. But that's ok, I don't need them until next weekend.

Right up the road from you in Kinsman, woop!!
[/quote]

Hey Dave, that's great news. Good to know that there are people close to home on here!! Cheers!
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: goose on June 11, 2021, 01:27:04 pm
Ordered (Hop Heaven) 8oz Magnum 2020 pellets for bittering, and 1 lb Mt Hood 2020
pellets for flavor/aroma.  Would use leaf hops if I had a larger kettle with a false
bottom, using spent hops as a filter bed.  Also Ordered small vacuum sealer bags to
freeze/fridge small amounts.

This was one of my clutch purchases.  I was not being vigilant with storing my hops but I have had this thing for 4-5 years now and hops get vac-sealed here now.  When I need some I just open the bag, weigh them out and vac them back up.

The standard size for vacuum seal bags is way too big for 1/2 oz of pellet hops.
Ordered 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 bags, might be too small, will order next size up if so.
Tried cutting the bags smaller, but wouldn't seal.  Avoiding what your going
through, opening then resealing.  I did that a few times, and didn't get a fuzzy
feeling doing it.  Bought the small bags on amazon for 10 bucks, next size up
was more.  I think the next vacuum sealed hops will go in fridge, use them
within a year, or chuck.  Over cautious or OCD, whichever, if grains, hops, or
yeast look at me sideways, they get chucked.
I bought bag material that comes on a roll.  You can make whatever sized bag you need.  Seal one end (sometimes I do a double or triple seal to make sure it's good) add the hops and seal the other end (sometimes double or triple again) and just leave enough bag so you could cut it open, weigh out more hops and seal it again and have enough material to do that. 



I do the same.  Buy it in a roll and cut off what I need and leave enough extra to reseal the bag after opening like Village Taphouse does.  All of my hops then go in the freezer.  My wife sometimes raises the issue of how I commandeered the freezer in the basement beer fridge for hops.  I simple say, you want beer, don't you?
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Village Taphouse on June 11, 2021, 02:29:12 pm
Ordered (Hop Heaven) 8oz Magnum 2020 pellets for bittering, and 1 lb Mt Hood 2020
pellets for flavor/aroma.  Would use leaf hops if I had a larger kettle with a false
bottom, using spent hops as a filter bed.  Also Ordered small vacuum sealer bags to
freeze/fridge small amounts.

This was one of my clutch purchases.  I was not being vigilant with storing my hops but I have had this thing for 4-5 years now and hops get vac-sealed here now.  When I need some I just open the bag, weigh them out and vac them back up.

The standard size for vacuum seal bags is way too big for 1/2 oz of pellet hops.
Ordered 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 bags, might be too small, will order next size up if so.
Tried cutting the bags smaller, but wouldn't seal.  Avoiding what your going
through, opening then resealing.  I did that a few times, and didn't get a fuzzy
feeling doing it.  Bought the small bags on amazon for 10 bucks, next size up
was more.  I think the next vacuum sealed hops will go in fridge, use them
within a year, or chuck.  Over cautious or OCD, whichever, if grains, hops, or
yeast look at me sideways, they get chucked.
I bought bag material that comes on a roll.  You can make whatever sized bag you need.  Seal one end (sometimes I do a double or triple seal to make sure it's good) add the hops and seal the other end (sometimes double or triple again) and just leave enough bag so you could cut it open, weigh out more hops and seal it again and have enough material to do that. 



I do the same.  Buy it in a roll and cut off what I need and leave enough extra to reseal the bag after opening like Village Taphouse does.  All of my hops then go in the freezer.  My wife sometimes raises the issue of how I commandeered the freezer in the basement beer fridge for hops.  I simple say, you want beer, don't you?
As brewers, we tend to overbuy and overstock hops, right?  So many kinds of hops and so many new varieties that we want to try.  I always err on the side of too many as opposed to not enough.  :P
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: tommymorris on June 11, 2021, 02:30:32 pm
My wife sometimes raises the issue of how I commandeered the freezer in the basement beer fridge for hops.  I simple say, you want beer, don't you?
That’s a dangerous question at my house. My wife might say no!  She still hasn’t found the beer she likes. I could make her spiked tonic waters or ciders, but where’s the fun in that.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: denny on June 11, 2021, 02:58:29 pm
Ordered (Hop Heaven) 8oz Magnum 2020 pellets for bittering, and 1 lb Mt Hood 2020
pellets for flavor/aroma.  Would use leaf hops if I had a larger kettle with a false
bottom, using spent hops as a filter bed.  Also Ordered small vacuum sealer bags to
freeze/fridge small amounts.

This was one of my clutch purchases.  I was not being vigilant with storing my hops but I have had this thing for 4-5 years now and hops get vac-sealed here now.  When I need some I just open the bag, weigh them out and vac them back up.

The standard size for vacuum seal bags is way too big for 1/2 oz of pellet hops.
Ordered 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 bags, might be too small, will order next size up if so.
Tried cutting the bags smaller, but wouldn't seal.  Avoiding what your going
through, opening then resealing.  I did that a few times, and didn't get a fuzzy
feeling doing it.  Bought the small bags on amazon for 10 bucks, next size up
was more.  I think the next vacuum sealed hops will go in fridge, use them
within a year, or chuck.  Over cautious or OCD, whichever, if grains, hops, or
yeast look at me sideways, they get chucked.
I bought bag material that comes on a roll.  You can make whatever sized bag you need.  Seal one end (sometimes I do a double or triple seal to make sure it's good) add the hops and seal the other end (sometimes double or triple again) and just leave enough bag so you could cut it open, weigh out more hops and seal it again and have enough material to do that. 



I do the same.  Buy it in a roll and cut off what I need and leave enough extra to reseal the bag after opening like Village Taphouse does.  All of my hops then go in the freezer.  My wife sometimes raises the issue of how I commandeered the freezer in the basement beer fridge for hops.  I simple say, you want beer, don't you?
As brewers, we tend to overbuy and overstock hops, right?  So many kinds of hops and so many new varieties that we want to try.  I always err on the side of too many as opposed to not enough.  :P

I've started practicing that obsession with craft malt now.  At least as addictive as hops!
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: neuse on June 11, 2021, 03:24:14 pm
There are several posts about vacuum sealing the hops at home, apparently with good success. Are these bags oxygen bags true oxygen barriers, or it that really not necessary?
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Village Taphouse on June 11, 2021, 03:32:04 pm
There are several posts about vacuum sealing the hops at home, apparently with good success. Are these bags oxygen bags true oxygen barriers, or it that really not necessary?
I have to assume that they truly are oxygen barriers.  When you seal a bag of hops, the bag is sucked clean of O2 (or at least as much as the sealer can) and the bag itself is hard as a rock.  I have had "bad seals" where it looked good at first but I go back into the freezer the next day and the bag is soft now so O2 got in where the seal was.  But if the seal is good the bag remains very hard and packed.  If O2 were getting in through the bag material I assume the package would be soft in a short time.  I hear you though:  Many packages are more foil-like O2 barrier material which seems like it would be better but the plastic bag material for the sealers seems good to me. 
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: hmbrw4life on June 11, 2021, 04:17:21 pm
There are several posts about vacuum sealing the hops at home, apparently with good success. Are these bags oxygen bags true oxygen barriers, or it that really not necessary?
I have to assume that they truly are oxygen barriers.  When you seal a bag of hops, the bag is sucked clean of O2 (or at least as much as the sealer can) and the bag itself is hard as a rock.  I have had "bad seals" where it looked good at first but I go back into the freezer the next day and the bag is soft now so O2 got in where the seal was.  But if the seal is good the bag remains very hard and packed.  If O2 were getting in through the bag material I assume the package would be soft in a short time.  I hear you though:  Many packages are more foil-like O2 barrier material which seems like it would be better but the plastic bag material for the sealers seems good to me.


Ahh, some good old Fick's Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fick%27s_laws_of_diffusion).

Anything can be an oxygen barrier, just being a barrier doesn't mean it stops permeability, solubility and diffusivity, only (possibly)slows it.

In this case, food saver bags are made from Polyethylene (and some nylon).
The oxygen permeability of it is: 2325 (cc 25μ/m2/24h)
Mylar on the other hand, permeability is 16 (cc 25μ/m2/24h)

So that means food saver bags are 150 times more permeable than mylar, neither of which however, are impermeable.

Once harvested, hops (like all agricultural products) have a declining state, oxygen starts the reactions, and in this starts the degradation of hop polyphenols, and acids. This is why we have a index for hop aging degradation.

Temperature greatly helps( or hurts) this due the slower reaction rates based on (colder)temperature, using some kind of barrier also greatly helps.

Most people at home us vac seal bags due to usability, most commercial hop solutions come in some type of mylar/N2 purged bag due to shelf life, and product quality.

Life is always a trade-off

Use what you got, anything is better than nothing!






Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: neuse on June 11, 2021, 05:54:09 pm
There are several posts about vacuum sealing the hops at home, apparently with good success. Are these bags oxygen bags true oxygen barriers, or it that really not necessary?
I have to assume that they truly are oxygen barriers.  When you seal a bag of hops, the bag is sucked clean of O2 (or at least as much as the sealer can) and the bag itself is hard as a rock.  I have had "bad seals" where it looked good at first but I go back into the freezer the next day and the bag is soft now so O2 got in where the seal was.  But if the seal is good the bag remains very hard and packed.  If O2 were getting in through the bag material I assume the package would be soft in a short time.  I hear you though:  Many packages are more foil-like O2 barrier material which seems like it would be better but the plastic bag material for the sealers seems good to me.


Ahh, some good old Fick's Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fick%27s_laws_of_diffusion).

Anything can be an oxygen barrier, just being a barrier doesn't mean it stops permeability, solubility and diffusivity, only (possibly)slows it.

In this case, food saver bags are made from Polyethylene (and some nylon).
The oxygen permeability of it is: 2325 (cc 25μ/m2/24h)
Mylar on the other hand, permeability is 16 (cc 25μ/m2/24h)

So that means food saver bags are 150 times more permeable than mylar, neither of which however, are impermeable.

Once harvested, hops (like all agricultural products) have a declining state, oxygen starts the reactions, and in this starts the degradation of hop polyphenols, and acids. This is why we have a index for hop aging degradation.

Temperature greatly helps( or hurts) this due the slower reaction rates based on (colder)temperature, using some kind of barrier also greatly helps.

Most people at home us vac seal bags due to usability, most commercial hop solutions come in some type of mylar/N2 purged bag due to shelf life, and product quality.

Life is always a trade-off

Use what you got, anything is better than nothing!







My solution to this has been buying hops vacuum sealed in 2 oz foil bags with a zip lock (Yakima Valley Hops). For finishing hops, I use a whole bag. For bittering hops, I squeeze as much air out as I can and reseal. If for some reason I don't don't use a whole bag of finishing hops, it becomes bittering hops. It costs a little more, but I feel better about it.

I asked about the oxygen barrier home vacuum seal bags because this would be a win-win, but in the absence of that, I'll probably continue with my current method. I think the foil bags are very good, but if I find out different I might change.

Very good info about the various materials by the way - thanks.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: tommymorris on June 11, 2021, 06:44:28 pm
Anecdotally, my Hop Heaven hops last a very long time stored in vacuum sealed bags in the freezer.  I use them for bitterness, flavor, and aroma. I open take out the hops I need and reseal.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: hmbrw4life on June 11, 2021, 07:01:34 pm
There are several posts about vacuum sealing the hops at home, apparently with good success. Are these bags oxygen bags true oxygen barriers, or it that really not necessary?
I have to assume that they truly are oxygen barriers.  When you seal a bag of hops, the bag is sucked clean of O2 (or at least as much as the sealer can) and the bag itself is hard as a rock.  I have had "bad seals" where it looked good at first but I go back into the freezer the next day and the bag is soft now so O2 got in where the seal was.  But if the seal is good the bag remains very hard and packed.  If O2 were getting in through the bag material I assume the package would be soft in a short time.  I hear you though:  Many packages are more foil-like O2 barrier material which seems like it would be better but the plastic bag material for the sealers seems good to me.


Ahh, some good old Fick's Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fick%27s_laws_of_diffusion).

Anything can be an oxygen barrier, just being a barrier doesn't mean it stops permeability, solubility and diffusivity, only (possibly)slows it.

In this case, food saver bags are made from Polyethylene (and some nylon).
The oxygen permeability of it is: 2325 (cc 25μ/m2/24h)
Mylar on the other hand, permeability is 16 (cc 25μ/m2/24h)

So that means food saver bags are 150 times more permeable than mylar, neither of which however, are impermeable.

Once harvested, hops (like all agricultural products) have a declining state, oxygen starts the reactions, and in this starts the degradation of hop polyphenols, and acids. This is why we have a index for hop aging degradation.

Temperature greatly helps( or hurts) this due the slower reaction rates based on (colder)temperature, using some kind of barrier also greatly helps.

Most people at home us vac seal bags due to usability, most commercial hop solutions come in some type of mylar/N2 purged bag due to shelf life, and product quality.

Life is always a trade-off

Use what you got, anything is better than nothing!







My solution to this has been buying hops vacuum sealed in 2 oz foil bags with a zip lock (Yakima Valley Hops). For finishing hops, I use a whole bag. For bittering hops, I squeeze as much air out as I can and reseal. If for some reason I don't don't use a whole bag of finishing hops, it becomes bittering hops. It costs a little more, but I feel better about it.

I asked about the oxygen barrier home vacuum seal bags because this would be a win-win, but in the absence of that, I'll probably continue with my current method. I think the foil bags are very good, but if I find out different I might change.

Very good info about the various materials by the way - thanks.

NP, and good on you. I know some breweries that will only use new un-opened bags for late/dry hops and swear by it. That pesky oxygen again!
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Village Taphouse on June 11, 2021, 07:52:27 pm
Ahh, some good old Fick's Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fick%27s_laws_of_diffusion).

Anything can be an oxygen barrier, just being a barrier doesn't mean it stops permeability, solubility and diffusivity, only (possibly)slows it.

In this case, food saver bags are made from Polyethylene (and some nylon).
The oxygen permeability of it is: 2325 (cc 25μ/m2/24h)
Mylar on the other hand, permeability is 16 (cc 25μ/m2/24h)

So that means food saver bags are 150 times more permeable than mylar, neither of which however, are impermeable.

Once harvested, hops (like all agricultural products) have a declining state, oxygen starts the reactions, and in this starts the degradation of hop polyphenols, and acids. This is why we have a index for hop aging degradation.

Temperature greatly helps( or hurts) this due the slower reaction rates based on (colder)temperature, using some kind of barrier also greatly helps.

Most people at home us vac seal bags due to usability, most commercial hop solutions come in some type of mylar/N2 purged bag due to shelf life, and product quality.

Life is always a trade-off

Use what you got, anything is better than nothing!
Do we know what these numbers mean in terms of allowing O2 into the bags?  Clearly mylar appears to be better but if the Polyethylene bags appear to still be tight and hard as a rock weeks after they were sealed, how much damage is being done to the hops by the O2 getting into the bag?  There appears to be no evidence that O2 is creeping in just based on how the bag feels but I don't pretend to know any more than that. 
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: denny on June 11, 2021, 08:25:34 pm
Ahh, some good old Fick's Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fick%27s_laws_of_diffusion).

Anything can be an oxygen barrier, just being a barrier doesn't mean it stops permeability, solubility and diffusivity, only (possibly)slows it.

In this case, food saver bags are made from Polyethylene (and some nylon).
The oxygen permeability of it is: 2325 (cc 25μ/m2/24h)
Mylar on the other hand, permeability is 16 (cc 25μ/m2/24h)

So that means food saver bags are 150 times more permeable than mylar, neither of which however, are impermeable.

Once harvested, hops (like all agricultural products) have a declining state, oxygen starts the reactions, and in this starts the degradation of hop polyphenols, and acids. This is why we have a index for hop aging degradation.

Temperature greatly helps( or hurts) this due the slower reaction rates based on (colder)temperature, using some kind of barrier also greatly helps.

Most people at home us vac seal bags due to usability, most commercial hop solutions come in some type of mylar/N2 purged bag due to shelf life, and product quality.

Life is always a trade-off

Use what you got, anything is better than nothing!
Do we know what these numbers mean in terms of allowing O2 into the bags?  Clearly mylar appears to be better but if the Polyethylene bags appear to still be tight and hard as a rock weeks after they were sealed, how much damage is being done to the hops by the O2 getting into the bag?  There appears to be no evidence that O2 is creeping in just based on how the bag feels but I don't pretend to know any more than that.

Reality often astonishes theory.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Fire Rooster on June 11, 2021, 09:20:23 pm
Ordered (Hop Heaven) 8oz Magnum 2020 pellets for bittering, and 1 lb Mt Hood 2020
pellets for flavor/aroma.  Would use leaf hops if I had a larger kettle with a false
bottom, using spent hops as a filter bed.  Also Ordered small vacuum sealer bags to
freeze/fridge small amounts.

Received hops today, shipping time was very reasonable.
They are double vacuum sealed and look nice.
Awaiting new vacuum sealing machine to split into small portions then freeze.
Old vacuum sealer was cheap and crappy.
I think every fall I'll be ordering my hops from Hop Heaven to get the new years batch.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: hmbrw4life on June 11, 2021, 09:24:03 pm
Ahh, some good old Fick's Law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fick%27s_laws_of_diffusion).

Anything can be an oxygen barrier, just being a barrier doesn't mean it stops permeability, solubility and diffusivity, only (possibly)slows it.

In this case, food saver bags are made from Polyethylene (and some nylon).
The oxygen permeability of it is: 2325 (cc 25μ/m2/24h)
Mylar on the other hand, permeability is 16 (cc 25μ/m2/24h)

So that means food saver bags are 150 times more permeable than mylar, neither of which however, are impermeable.

Once harvested, hops (like all agricultural products) have a declining state, oxygen starts the reactions, and in this starts the degradation of hop polyphenols, and acids. This is why we have a index for hop aging degradation.

Temperature greatly helps( or hurts) this due the slower reaction rates based on (colder)temperature, using some kind of barrier also greatly helps.

Most people at home us vac seal bags due to usability, most commercial hop solutions come in some type of mylar/N2 purged bag due to shelf life, and product quality.

Life is always a trade-off

Use what you got, anything is better than nothing!
Do we know what these numbers mean in terms of allowing O2 into the bags?  Clearly mylar appears to be better but if the Polyethylene bags appear to still be tight and hard as a rock weeks after they were sealed, how much damage is being done to the hops by the O2 getting into the bag?  There appears to be no evidence that O2 is creeping in just based on how the bag feels but I don't pretend to know any more than that.

Reality often astonishes theory.

Hrrmm..

Well bottles and kegs are sealed tight too, and we all know that matters little.

The question is not whether it happens (it does) as there are quantifiable measurements to prove it. So that blows that analogy.

The only real answer would be to test a commercial package, vs a vac seal package via HLPC and sensory, at timed alloted intervals and see what the results are. Which would be time consuming, and most likely not worth it, but its the proper answer.

Or one can chose to do what they have always done, and get what they always get (good, bad, indifferent). Thats the beauty of life, choices.

Don't get me wrong, I myself, use vacuum bags for hop storage for its ease of usability. But I do only aroma hop with fresh bags like neuse, as its talked about a lot in professional circles and easy and cheap on the HB scale. Many pro's would also probably tell you to get your cold side impeccable before even thinking of worrying about it. But as a hobby, in this day and age its pretty easy and fairly inexpensive to shop the freshest ingredients.

That being said, it still doesn't change the fact there are measured better ways to do it. Choices.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Cliffs on June 15, 2021, 03:38:58 pm
Ordered (Hop Heaven) 8oz Magnum 2020 pellets for bittering, and 1 lb Mt Hood 2020
pellets for flavor/aroma.  Would use leaf hops if I had a larger kettle with a false
bottom, using spent hops as a filter bed.  Also Ordered small vacuum sealer bags to
freeze/fridge small amounts.

Received hops today, shipping time was very reasonable.
They are double vacuum sealed and look nice.
Awaiting new vacuum sealing machine to split into small portions then freeze.
Old vacuum sealer was cheap and crappy.
I think every fall I'll be ordering my hops from Hop Heaven to get the new years batch.

thats what I do. every year my hop order feels like christmas. His Liberty hops this year are amazing. I've burned through a pound in no time flat.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Fire Rooster on June 15, 2021, 04:54:24 pm
Ordered (Hop Heaven) 8oz Magnum 2020 pellets for bittering, and 1 lb Mt Hood 2020
pellets for flavor/aroma.  Would use leaf hops if I had a larger kettle with a false
bottom, using spent hops as a filter bed.  Also Ordered small vacuum sealer bags to
freeze/fridge small amounts.

Received hops today, shipping time was very reasonable.
I think I'll try Liberty next time ordering.
They are double vacuum sealed and look nice.
Awaiting new vacuum sealing machine to split into small portions then freeze.
Old vacuum sealer was cheap and crappy.
I think every fall I'll be ordering my hops from Hop Heaven to get the new years batch.

thats what I do. every year my hop order feels like christmas. His Liberty hops this year are amazing. I've burned through a pound in no time flat.

It's nice knowing year of hops.
Ordering Liberty next time.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Cliffs on June 15, 2021, 09:31:25 pm
Ordered (Hop Heaven) 8oz Magnum 2020 pellets for bittering, and 1 lb Mt Hood 2020
pellets for flavor/aroma.  Would use leaf hops if I had a larger kettle with a false
bottom, using spent hops as a filter bed.  Also Ordered small vacuum sealer bags to
freeze/fridge small amounts.

Received hops today, shipping time was very reasonable.
I think I'll try Liberty next time ordering.
They are double vacuum sealed and look nice.
Awaiting new vacuum sealing machine to split into small portions then freeze.
Old vacuum sealer was cheap and crappy.
I think every fall I'll be ordering my hops from Hop Heaven to get the new years batch.

thats what I do. every year my hop order feels like christmas. His Liberty hops this year are amazing. I've burned through a pound in no time flat.

It's nice knowing year of hops.
Ordering Liberty next time.
and try the edelweiss blend if you havent already
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Fire Rooster on June 16, 2021, 08:16:48 am
Ordered (Hop Heaven) 8oz Magnum 2020 pellets for bittering, and 1 lb Mt Hood 2020
pellets for flavor/aroma.  Would use leaf hops if I had a larger kettle with a false
bottom, using spent hops as a filter bed.  Also Ordered small vacuum sealer bags to
freeze/fridge small amounts.


Received hops today, shipping time was very reasonable.
I think I'll try Liberty next time ordering.
They are double vacuum sealed and look nice.
Awaiting new vacuum sealing machine to split into small portions then freeze.
Old vacuum sealer was cheap and crappy.
I think every fall I'll be ordering my hops from Hop Heaven to get the new years batch.

thats what I do. every year my hop order feels like christmas. His Liberty hops this year are amazing. I've burned through a pound in no time flat.

It's nice knowing year of hops.
Ordering Liberty next time.
and try the edelweiss blend if you havent already

I haven't tried Liberty or Edelweiss.
Will try both, and order in fall.

Thanks
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: Fire Rooster on June 17, 2021, 05:42:59 pm
Ordered (Hop Heaven) 8oz Magnum 2020 pellets for bittering, and 1 lb Mt Hood 2020
pellets for flavor/aroma.  Would use leaf hops if I had a larger kettle with a false
bottom, using spent hops as a filter bed.  Also Ordered small vacuum sealer bags to
freeze/fridge small amounts.


Received hops today, shipping time was very reasonable.
I think I'll try Liberty next time ordering.
They are double vacuum sealed and look nice.
Awaiting new vacuum sealing machine to split into small portions then freeze.
Old vacuum sealer was cheap and crappy.
I think every fall I'll be ordering my hops from Hop Heaven to get the new years batch.

thats what I do. every year my hop order feels like christmas. His Liberty hops this year are amazing. I've burned through a pound in no time flat.

It's nice knowing year of hops.
Ordering Liberty next time.
and try the edelweiss blend if you havent already

I haven't tried Liberty or Edelweiss.
Will try both, and order in fall.

Thanks

It just dawned on me, Edelweiss is from the movie Sound of Music.
It's also a white flower that grows in the Alps.
The W pronounced as a V threw me off, or I'm just old and slow.
Title: Re: Hop Heaven
Post by: narcout on June 19, 2021, 03:04:05 pm
I ordered these from Hop Heaven on Wednesday, and they arrived Saturday.  Looking forward to trying them out

(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ff164/narcout/unnamed(3).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ff164/narcout/unnamed(3).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds)
Please let us know how they look, feel and smell (and came out in a beer).  I have been rubbing my chin about some of the hops that Ted has and wondered about getting some and these were one variety I was interested in.  His US Saaz, Edelweiss and the C-148 were all excellent.  Ted is turning me into a hop snob.   8)

I don't love the flavor of these hops; it's more herbal than I care for (almost Earl Grey Tea like).  As finishing hops in a Belgian-style ale, I prefer EKG, Saaz, Sterling, or SG Celeia.  I'm going to order some Sterling or Celeia from Hop Heaven for my next batch.