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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: trapae on February 20, 2021, 02:23:39 AM

Title: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: trapae on February 20, 2021, 02:23:39 AM
About a year ago I got a glycol chiller and the ability to make lagers.  I’ve been making Bavarian type lagers and German beers liked dunkels and loved them. Was thinking of making A Pilsner but instead of using a traditional German hop, using something like strata. Anyone done this and any opinions?
Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: hopfenundmalz on February 20, 2021, 02:48:37 AM
Strata is one I liked. Lots of berry flavor and aroma in the Pale Ale I brewed. Use a relatively light hand of the malt will be overpowered.

I've had beers in Germany featuring newish German hops like Mandarina and Saphir that were very drinkable.
Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: erockrph on February 20, 2021, 04:22:02 AM
Motueka and/or Sterling are my go-to hops for this. Both are Saaz descendants, and both have that  spicy noble character at their heart, but they get citrus when used at a higher hopping rate as late or dry hops. Neither is overpowering, so it turns out like a Pils with just a little bit extra to it.

I really like WY2278 for this, by the way. I find it has a crisp finish that accentuates the hops nicely.

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Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: BrewBama on February 20, 2021, 04:57:38 AM
One of the aspects of home brewing is breaking the barriers of ‘a [fill in the blank] beer has to be this’. There’s absolutely nothing limiting you to a set of rules or tradition. If you’re shooting for a traditional target then you should research classic examples, if not: Go for it.


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Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: Silver_Is_Money on February 20, 2021, 07:37:54 AM
Sterling for Bohemian/Czech Pilsners, and Crystal for German Pils.
Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: beerphilmcd on February 20, 2021, 11:00:06 AM
The American grown continental/noble derivatives are excellent and many argue they are better than their German counterparts based on freshness. I’m talking specifically of crystal, sterling, my hood, etc.

I’m a big fan of palisade which has a German lean but is a touch brighter in flavor. A lot of craft lagers are leaning on it... at least according to podcasts. Here’s a image of the hop schedule of a 5.5 gallon Pilsner I have in the fermenter. I’m currently drinking a 4 gallon batch with the almost the same hop bill/schedule which is amazing!

I will say I’ve not been a fan of some craft beer versions that are more aggressively hopped with more pungent American hops. So I think a 1/2 oz of most any hop could accent traditional approaches but it’s easy to lose the balance with a heavy hand. Conversely 1-2 oz of hops like progress, archer, mandarins Bavaria, or even Williamette can make excellent brews!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210220/3853f04d295f68538730dc1405c974f1.jpg)


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Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: MDL on February 20, 2021, 02:16:28 PM
Faction Brewing on Alameda makes “Hella Strata”. Pilsner malt and Strata....lots of Strata mostly in the whirlpool. It’s wonderful.
Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: denny on February 20, 2021, 03:58:06 PM
I do that a lot using Yakima Chief American nobles.  Things like Simcoe or Mosaic, but with the restrained qualities of continental nobles.
Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: erockrph on February 20, 2021, 07:18:23 PM
I’m a big fan of palisade which has a German lean but is a touch brighter in flavor. A lot of craft lagers are leaning on it... at least according to podcasts. Here’s a image of the hop schedule of a 5.5 gallon Pilsner I have in the fermenter. I’m currently drinking a 4 gallon batch with the almost the same hop bill/schedule which is amazing!
I do that a lot using Yakima Chief American nobles.  Things like Simcoe or Mosaic, but with the restrained qualities of continental nobles.
Hmm. I have some Palisade to use up and some American Noble's on order from YCH. Spring is on the way, and it looks like a lot of pale lagers are in my future.
Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: Saccharomyces on February 21, 2021, 12:30:53 AM
As far as I am concerned, the best American-bred Hallertau Mittlefrueh triploid is Liberty.  Mt. Hood is good, but it does not hold a candle to Liberty.  Galena for bittering combined with Liberty for additions produces a beautiful pale lager.  Galena is one of Magnum's parents, so Magnum should be just as good.
Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: beerphilmcd on February 21, 2021, 06:22:03 AM
Motueka and/or Sterling are my go-to hops for this. Both are Saaz descendants, and both have that  spicy noble character at their heart, but they get citrus when used at a higher hopping rate as late or dry hops. Neither is overpowering, so it turns out like a Pils with just a little bit extra to it.

I really like WY2278 for this, by the way. I find it has a crisp finish that accentuates the hops nicely.

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I think those hops together or combined with others discussed earlier could be excellent. Morueka was a disappointment as the dominant hop in IPAs I’ve brewed but it sounds great in this light.

I’m gonna try to squeeze in one more lager before summer in the south and may go in this direction.


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Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: roger on February 21, 2021, 01:37:16 PM
As far as I am concerned, the best American-bred Hallertau Mittlefrueh triploid is Liberty.  Mt. Hood is good, but it does not hold a candle to Liberty.  Galena for bittering combined with Liberty for additions produces a beautiful pale lager.  Galena is one of Magnum's parents, so Magnum should be just as good.

+1 to the combination of Galena and Liberty. On deck for me is a German Pils with that hop combination.

I know its personal preference, and I'm guessing Mt. Hood is more popular.
Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: Kevin on February 21, 2021, 02:14:35 PM
Who said you have to have a chiller to make lager?
Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: trapae on February 21, 2021, 02:39:05 PM
Living in Southern California, glycol chiller definitely needed for lager yeast.
Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: Silver_Is_Money on February 21, 2021, 04:12:57 PM
As far as I am concerned, the best American-bred Hallertau Mittlefrueh triploid is Liberty.  Mt. Hood is good, but it does not hold a candle to Liberty.  Galena for bittering combined with Liberty for additions produces a beautiful pale lager.  Galena is one of Magnum's parents, so Magnum should be just as good.

Ah yes!  I had forgotten about Liberty hops. Same family as Crystal and Mt. Hood, and perhaps superior to these other family members.
Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: fredthecat on February 21, 2021, 05:42:41 PM
im doing a vienna lager and a pilsner with only EKG hops right now, wont be ready for a while but ill post here when they are. i tasted a sample of the vienna and nothing struck me as "this is NOT a typical vienna lager", so as i figured and as people used to say often EKG is near-noble. yes i know kent golding is more about where it is produced than a type.
Title: Re: Lager/Pilsner with non-traditional non-German hops?
Post by: Wilbur on February 21, 2021, 06:27:23 PM
I made a lager with some fresh/wet crystal that was fantastic. Planning on using some southern passion in another, it's breed from saaz and Hallertau. I've had pretty good luck shooting for 25-30 IBU, with 10-15 at 60 minutes and the rest at a hop stand. I like to dry hop at about 8 g/gallon.

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