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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: Bel Air Brewing on April 27, 2021, 01:21:48 pm

Title: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 27, 2021, 01:21:48 pm
A big thanks to Denny, for recommending this yeast. It is the best I have used!

We brewed a Czech style Pils (Premium Pale Czech Lager - 3B) with this yeast. The beer is so close to what I sampled at the brewery in Pilsen, Czech Republic.

Brewed a 2nd batch yesterday, using harvested Diamond. It literally erupted like a volcano, running down the countertop, onto the floor. I cleaned it up before my wife saw the disaster! A starter was not needed, as it could have simply been pitched directly. It was only one week old after the harvest.

This will be our new "house yeast" for lagers. I like it much better than W-34/70.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: denny on April 27, 2021, 01:28:21 pm
A big thanks to Denny, for recommending this yeast. It is the best I have used!

We brewed a Czech style Pils (Premium Pale Czech Lager - 3B) with this yeast. The beer is so close to what I sampled at the brewery in Pilsen, Czech Republic.

Brewed a 2nd batch yesterday, using harvested Diamond. It literally erupted like a volcano, running down the countertop, onto the floor. I cleaned it up before my wife saw the disaster! A starter was not needed, as it could have simply been pitched directly. It was only one week old after the harvest.

This will be our new "house yeast" for lagers. I like it much better than W-34/70.

Thanks again!

Glad you liked it!  Like you, I prefer it to 34/70.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: 69franx on April 27, 2021, 01:44:34 pm
I am definitely going to have to track some of this down when my last couple sachets of 34/70 are gone. Thanks for the post
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: Steve Ruch on April 27, 2021, 03:24:08 pm
I was happy with the one time I used it and a lot of shops charge less for it than W34/70.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 27, 2021, 03:45:29 pm
When the website was checked, they claim the Diamond yeast is appropriate for many lager styles, including Czech Pilsner.

Being a German yeast, is this a good yeast for a Czech beer? I really like how ours turned out. As good as anything we had in the Czech Republic.

Get this...I got up at 4am yesterday, for a big day of brewing. The harvested Diamond had been sitting on the kitchen countertop since midnight, warming to room temp. A one quart starter was then added to the yeast, and I went to the office to check my email...while drinking a cup of double-shot espresso coffee Americana. Before my coffee was finished, I went back to the kitchen to get some things ready. I noticed a huge puddle of foamy looking liquid, all over the counter, running down the cabinets and going onto the floor. This all happened in less than 10 minutes!!!

That yeast is hyper-potent! I won't make this mistake again.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: denny on April 27, 2021, 04:33:46 pm
When the website was checked, they claim the Diamond yeast is appropriate for many lager styles, including Czech Pilsner.

Being a German yeast, is this a good yeast for a Czech beer? I really like how ours turned out. As good as anything we had in the Czech Republic.

Get this...I got up at 4am yesterday, for a big day of brewing. The harvested Diamond had been sitting on the kitchen countertop since midnight, warming to room temp. A one quart starter was then added to the yeast, and I went to the office to check my email...while drinking a cup of double-shot espresso coffee Americana. Before my coffee was finished, I went back to the kitchen to get some things ready. I noticed a huge puddle of foamy looking liquid, all over the counter, running down the cabinets and going onto the floor. This all happened in less than 10 minutes!!!

That yeast is hyper-potent! I won't make this mistake again.

FWIW, you may get better results pitching it straight from the fridge as opposed to waming it up. I seem to.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: Iliff Ave on April 27, 2021, 04:50:34 pm
I’m am glad you’re back to making world class beers especially considering how much you loved 34/70
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: purduekenn on April 27, 2021, 07:16:09 pm
I like this yeast too got good results with Helles and American Pilsner.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 28, 2021, 05:45:53 am
This yeast was within a few months of it's expiration date, so initially there was concern. It did take 5 packages to do the first 10 gallon brew. The ferment started slow initially, with about a 48 hour lag.

On this recent brew (10 gallons), there was no lag at all. The yeast was ready to go, and Denny's advice looks spot on...pitch it straight from the fridge. No need to warm it up, and/or make a starter. Our slurry (1 qt) was hyper-clean. Perhaps the best harvest I have had to date. And it was only one week removed from the previous beer, so it was fresh.

The flavor profile is classic lager, and it is far removed from W-34/70 in taste character.

Good stuff. Highly recommended.

Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on May 28, 2021, 06:04:28 am
Brewed up another awesome Czech Premium Pale Pils, with the Diamond (3rd Gen).
Took Denny's advice, pitching the yeast straight from the fridge. The wort was chilled to 66 degrees, and the yeast was pitched. Fermentation temp is 50. The yeast took off like gang busters, producing CO2 almost immediately.

Am I impressed with the Diamond? Is the Pope Catholic?
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: ttash on May 28, 2021, 10:32:31 am
I can't wait to try Diamond! Still have to work through the remaining packets of W34-70 I currently have, but after that I'm definitely going to take Diamond out for a spin. 🍺
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: ynotbrusum on May 28, 2021, 10:45:02 am
With Diamond being so neutral in its profile, has anyone out there used it warm and or under pressure?  Just curious of the results.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: BrewBama on May 28, 2021, 11:18:54 am
I recently used Diamond to ferment a Cinco de Mayo Vienna Lager at an avg 60*F. The beer is good but there is a slight hint of sulfur on the nose as I take a sip. Not bad per se, but noticeable.



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Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: beersk on May 28, 2021, 12:10:24 pm
I recently used Diamond to ferment a Cinco de Mayo Vienna Lager at an avg 60*F. The beer is good but there is a slight hint of sulfur on the nose as I take a sip. Not bad per se, but noticeable.



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Why would increased temperature cause sulfur? Wouldn't there be less than if it were fermented cold?
Title: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: BrewBama on May 28, 2021, 12:20:50 pm
I dunno. I am not saying one caused the other. That’s the avg temp I used to ferment with that yeast. That’s the smell of the beer.



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Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: tommymorris on May 28, 2021, 12:52:53 pm
I dunno. I am not saying one caused the other. That’s the avg temp I used to ferment with that yeast. That’s the smell of the beer.



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Hopefully the sulfur fades as the beer ages. People post fairly often that sulfur dies down or disappears over time.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: hopfenundmalz on May 28, 2021, 01:32:09 pm
Ive got a German Pils fermented with diamond and it is v ery clean, and dropped pretty  bright.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on May 28, 2021, 07:43:00 pm
Of the beers we made with Diamond, there has been zero issues. No off aromas, or flavors. And no sulphur. None.
In fact, this is our new go-to yeast.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: Saccharomyces on May 29, 2021, 07:18:40 am
Glad you liked it!  Like you, I prefer it to 34/70.

I prefer anything Lallemand to anything Fermentis.  Granted, my experience with either manufacturer is limited, but I have used Nottingham, Windsor, and BRY-97 with zero off-flavors.  I cannot say that about Fermentis. 
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: BrewBama on May 29, 2021, 07:23:33 am

I prefer anything Lallemand to anything Fermentis.  Granted, my experience with either manufacturer is limited, but I have used Nottingham, Windsor, and BRY-97 with zero off-flavors.  I cannot say that about Fermentis.

I agree



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Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: ttash on May 29, 2021, 07:41:01 am
Glad you liked it!  Like you, I prefer it to 34/70.

I prefer anything Lallemand to anything Fermentis.  Granted, my experience with either manufacturer is limited, but I have used Nottingham, Windsor, and BRY-97 with zero off-flavors.  I cannot say that about Fermentis.
Do you think it's a result of having different facilities/labs, or different QC programs?
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: denny on May 29, 2021, 08:20:31 am

I prefer anything Lallemand to anything Fermentis.  Granted, my experience with either manufacturer is limited, but I have used Nottingham, Windsor, and BRY-97 with zero off-flavors.  I cannot say that about Fermentis.

I agree



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I agree with both of you.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: denny on May 29, 2021, 08:21:20 am
Glad you liked it!  Like you, I prefer it to 34/70.

I prefer anything Lallemand to anything Fermentis.  Granted, my experience with either manufacturer is limited, but I have used Nottingham, Windsor, and BRY-97 with zero off-flavors.  I cannot say that about Fermentis.
Do you think it's a result of having different facilities/labs, or different QC programs?

All of that and probably more. 
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: tommymorris on May 29, 2021, 08:34:37 am
Glad you liked it!  Like you, I prefer it to 34/70.

I prefer anything Lallemand to anything Fermentis.  Granted, my experience with either manufacturer is limited, but I have used Nottingham, Windsor, and BRY-97 with zero off-flavors.  I cannot say that about Fermentis.
Do you think it's a result of having different facilities/labs, or different QC programs?

All of that and probably more.
It seems like Lallemand is actively trying to grow their market share by rebranding and adding new varieties. Whereas Fermentis seems complacent. They are just selling the same strains in the same packaging. I know that has nothing to do with quality, but it makes me wonder if their attitudes may extend throughout the respective businesses.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: Saccharomyces on May 29, 2021, 03:53:02 pm
It seems like Lallemand is actively trying to grow their market share by rebranding and adding new varieties. Whereas Fermentis seems complacent. They are just selling the same strains in the same packaging. I know that has nothing to do with quality, but it makes me wonder if their attitudes may extend throughout the respective businesses.

In my humble opinion, Lalleman has gone more "in" with respect to brewing than Fermentis.  Fermentis is owned by Lesaffre. Lesaffre pretty much owns the worldwide baking yeast market. Everyone has heard of Red Star yeast.  That is just one of their baking lines.  Lallemand also has a baker's yeast business unit, but they have made a bigger investment in brewing in terms of company focus than Fermentis.  Lallemand acquired controlling share in the Siebel Institute in 2000.  They then purchased AB Vickers Ltd in 2001.

Here is a photo that I shot of a slant I ordered from the Siebel Institute several years ago.  If you look up the address on the slant (6100 Royalmount Montreal, Canada), you will see that it is home to a large Lallemand research complex.

(https://i.imgur.com/dFQhrSk.jpg]https://i.imgur.com/dFQhrSk.jpg)
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: denny on May 29, 2021, 04:30:43 pm
FWIW, baking yeast is still Lallemand's largest market.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: ttash on May 29, 2021, 05:57:52 pm
FWIW, baking yeast is still Lallemand's largest market.
Thank goodness that during the height of the pandemic I could still buy brewer's yeast. Baker's yeast? Not so much. Besides being an avid brewer, I'm also an avid bread maker. At least one of my passions was still well supplied.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: RC on May 29, 2021, 08:01:15 pm
I have not tried Diamond yet. Is it more or less the Lallemand analog of 34/70? In my head, I viewed it as the analog more of S-189. Or are its characteristics something in between these two strains?

I admittedly don't yet have a huge breadth of experience with dry yeast overall (I'm a relatively recent convert from liquid), but I do love 34/70 and S-189. I've been using these two for a while now and am very impressed. My pre-pro lager with S-189 is as good as beer gets, to my palate. Once there is a good dry yeast analog of Mexican lager WLP940, I will have my dry-lager-yeast quiver fully stocked (for now, I'll keep using 940...god I love that strain).

Question for our resident yeast expert Saccharomyces: I taste the off-flavor from dry yeast that you have mentioned in this and previous posts. With me, I can only describe it as musty/soapy. I suspect it's a fatty acid. Which makes sense, given that with the way dry yeast is propagated, they are enriched in fatty acids. I suspect that flavor is because some cells of dry yeast die at the initial pitch and the flavor comes from autolysis. Curious if you knew any research about this.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: Saccharomyces on May 30, 2021, 07:02:03 am
FWIW, baking yeast is still Lallemand's largest market.

Aerobic propagation in bioreactor was perfected using baking lines. That is a bigger market than brewing.  What is weird is that surplus yeast from brewing allowed bakers to move away from natural leavening.  It was the switch from using skimmable top-fermenting cultures to bottom-fermenting cultures in brewing that resulted in the creation of the baking yeast industry.  The process of removing the brown head before taking a crop results in a much cleaner yeast culture that is nowhere near as bitter.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: denny on May 30, 2021, 08:18:34 am
FWIW, baking yeast is still Lallemand's largest market.
Thank goodness that during the height of the pandemic I could still buy brewer's yeast. Baker's yeast? Not so much. Besides being an avid brewer, I'm also an avid bread maker. At least one of my passions was still well supplied.

It was out there if you looked.  I bought 2 lb. in that period.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: denny on May 30, 2021, 08:20:11 am
I have not tried Diamond yet. Is it more or less the Lallemand analog of 34/70? In my head, I viewed it as the analog more of S-189. Or are its characteristics something in between these two strains?

I admittedly don't yet have a huge breadth of experience with dry yeast overall (I'm a relatively recent convert from liquid), but I do love 34/70 and S-189. I've been using these two for a while now and am very impressed. My pre-pro lager with S-189 is as good as beer gets, to my palate. Once there is a good dry yeast analog of Mexican lager WLP940, I will have my dry-lager-yeast quiver fully stocked (for now, I'll keep using 940...god I love that strain).

Question for our resident yeast expert Saccharomyces: I taste the off-flavor from dry yeast that you have mentioned in this and previous posts. With me, I can only describe it as musty/soapy. I suspect it's a fatty acid. Which makes sense, given that with the way dry yeast is propagated, they are enriched in fatty acids. I suspect that flavor is because some cells of dry yeast die at the initial pitch and the flavor comes from autolysis. Curious if you knew any research about this.

Yes, it is reputedly the same strain as 34/70, but with differences that come from different companies.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: Saccharomyces on May 30, 2021, 08:27:07 am
It was out there if you looked.  I bought 2 lb. in that period.

I eventually located a 2lb package as well, but by then, I had a healthy sourdough culture.  Yeast and flour were pretty much gone from local grocery store shelves for several months and I was not going to pay scalper prices on Amazon.  It was a crazy period.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: ttash on May 30, 2021, 11:21:46 am
FWIW, baking yeast is still Lallemand's largest market.
Thank goodness that during the height of the pandemic I could still buy brewer's yeast. Baker's yeast? Not so much. Besides being an avid brewer, I'm also an avid bread maker. At least one of my passions was still well supplied.

It was out there if you looked.  I bought 2 lb. in that period.
I live in a small town, population <3000. 100 miles from the next city, so we only have 2 grocery stores. First time I could find it in town was August 2020. It was crazy.
Title: Re: Diamond Lager Yeast
Post by: denny on May 30, 2021, 11:46:29 am
FWIW, baking yeast is still Lallemand's largest market.
Thank goodness that during the height of the pandemic I could still buy brewer's yeast. Baker's yeast? Not so much. Besides being an avid brewer, I'm also an avid bread maker. At least one of my passions was still well supplied.

It was out there if you looked.  I bought 2 lb. in that period.
I live in a small town, population <3000. 100 miles from the next city, so we only have 2 grocery stores. First time I could find it in town was August 2020. It was crazy.

I ordered on Amazon since at that point I wasn't going to stores.