Post by: nateo on May 26, 2021, 08:40:56 am
I finally have a lot of room these days so thinking of doing some 10+ year aging. Any recommendations?
For storage, is it better to store in a keg the whole time or to store in bottles? Does it matter if I age them flat? Does it matter when I carb them?
For styles, something like an RIS seems obvious, or a BDS, but are there other styles I should consider? I'd like to have 2 or 3 kinds to try once a year or so.
Thank you!
Post by: kramerog on May 26, 2021, 11:11:22 am
Generally you get less oxidation when aging in bulk. I would assume this to be true for kegs too.
When you carbonate to me is not an important variable generally other than you should force carb before bottling or natural carb upon bottling unless you are dealing perhaps with Brett. Pressure could stress the Brett and affect flavor development positively or negatively.
Post by: RC on May 26, 2021, 07:08:03 pm
Post by: majorvices on May 26, 2021, 07:19:43 pm
There were also some Begians ...None of them survived to anything worth drinking (tripel, dubbel and quad)
For the most part kegs will give you the best long term storage. If you can stand to keep a keg held up that long.
Post by: nateo on May 26, 2021, 09:04:32 pm
Post by: majorvices on May 27, 2021, 05:49:03 am
I've aged a few for a few years but they kept getting better. The best one was the mephistopheles clone. I'm sure there's a point of diminishing returns but I haven't found it yet.
Well, you will, and it is sometime long before 10 years. ;) Like I said, I have had a few batches that I was really impressed held up after 10 years but they had reached their peak years before that.
I graduated High School in 1988 and I found a J.W. Lees Harvest Ale (I believe that is what it was) that I saved and opened in 2008. IT was pretty darn good after 20 years. But just a shadow of what it would have been in 1990, or 1993.
Maybe you just enjoy oxidized flavors? I don't find a lot of enjoyment in them.
Another thing you might look at is beers that change over time like brett beers or sours.
Post by: dmtaylor on May 27, 2021, 06:21:30 am
Aging homebrew for 10 years? Is there any way I can talk you out of trying this?
I'm with RC on this, for the most part. But you can try it, and learn from it too. Or learn from those of us who've done this. Or both.
I mean, I have 6 or 7 cases of beers been sitting in my cellar, with several bottles I've had on hand for up to 5 or 6 years. I often save a couple bottles for aging just to see what happens. In truth, the oldest ones are all past their prime, except for one Scottish 70/- that for whatever reason still tastes as good or better 4 years later than the month I brewed it. So I know we can get lucky once in a while. But that one outlived my barleywine which was good for a couple years but tasting quite stale now, I still have one or two bottles of that left. I've consumed, or dumped, many many dozens of aged beers over the years. Most of them were not great, and many barely hanging on for dear life. I wouldn't dare age anything for 10 years. It will be a dumper within 5 or 6 years most likely.
I've only ever bottled so I cannot comment much on long term kegging. Seems a waste of a good keg to age in there that long. Bottles you can sample one easily once in a while to see how it's progressing.
However long you want to age your beer... good luck, and happy learning, for years to come. Cheers.
Post by: majorvices on May 27, 2021, 06:47:25 am
The last aged beer I had was in 2016 and that was a 10 year old BW kept it basement temps. It surprised a few beer connoisseurs at a beer tasting. Everyone was eager to try it. But it was still past its prime.
Post by: nateo on May 27, 2021, 06:56:19 am
He used meta to kill the brett so that seems to have helped with oxidation. My meph clone was pushing 16% abv so seems like it should have some potential for longer aging.
Post by: majorvices on May 27, 2021, 08:18:44 am
Post by: ynotbrusum on May 27, 2021, 08:37:11 am
FWIW, I have a 15 year old Solera in a 5 gallon wooden barrel that I take from and add to every couple years. That is a unique beer style situation and has the full complement of bugs going - fully soured, indeed.
Post by: Steve Ruch on May 27, 2021, 08:38:28 am
Post by: nateo on May 27, 2021, 09:22:20 am
Maybe do a year of bulk aging then do bottles for long storage.
Post by: erockrph on May 27, 2021, 09:47:23 am
This thread reminds me that I should probably drink my bottles of Thomas Hardy from the early 2000s rather soon. I usually save them for World Series or Super Bowl celebrations, so the Sox better keep surprising me this season
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Post by: denny on May 27, 2021, 10:03:06 am
Post by: beersk on May 27, 2021, 12:43:01 pm
Post by: majorvices on May 27, 2021, 01:05:47 pm
Post by: nateo on May 27, 2021, 02:27:23 pm
Post by: beersk on May 27, 2021, 03:16:31 pm
I have done a lot of barrel aging. IME even is 55 gallon barrels a year is far too long. Smaller barrels can pick up wood character in weeks. There is nothing that taste worse than an over-oaked beer. OK, tat's not true. But it still is undrinkable.I don't disagree. Over-oaked beer is pretty gross. But it'd be cool to oak-age a RIS and let it age for a long time. Maybe 10 months in the barrel, then into a keg for however long.
Nateo, maybe instead of the barrel, you could try the charring oak cubes method. It takes almost as long as barrel aging, but simpler from what I've read. Charring the oak cubes yourself then soaking them in bourbon for a while is the key to getting that barrel aged flavor, from what I've read. I've used oak chips soaked in bourbon and it doesn't match barrel aging.
Post by: nateo on May 27, 2021, 03:26:32 pm
Post by: Joe Sr. on May 27, 2021, 08:36:57 pm
Last thought, I have one old ale in a keg that just needs to be dumped and it’s nowhere near 10 years old. It’s just flaccid.
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Post by: goose on May 28, 2021, 07:29:42 am
The most major award I've ever won was for a 5 year old Am. BW. Some beers can age well for years, but I wouldn't count on it.
I agree with Denny here and also with Dave on aging beers for long periods of time. I have English Barleywines here that date back to 2014. The '14 is almost gone, but is still pretty good and won a BOS at a competition when it was three years old. Every once in a while I open one of the ones from past years and they are still pretty good. This is one style that ages very well. Some stouts IMHO age pretty well, but I would keep them around for 10 years, six to eight months is probably the max for those.
Post by: denny on May 28, 2021, 08:36:11 am
I have done a lot of barrel aging. IME even is 55 gallon barrels a year is far too long. Smaller barrels can pick up wood character in weeks. There is nothing that taste worse than an over-oaked beer. OK, tat's not true. But it still is undrinkable.
I once had a chance to taste a 74 year old Ballantine Burton Ale. It had spent 14 years in a barrel.
Post by: beersk on May 28, 2021, 09:03:10 am
.........................and? You can't make a statement like that and not say how it tasted, Denny. Come on...I have done a lot of barrel aging. IME even is 55 gallon barrels a year is far too long. Smaller barrels can pick up wood character in weeks. There is nothing that taste worse than an over-oaked beer. OK, tat's not true. But it still is undrinkable.
I once had a chance to taste a 74 year old Ballantine Burton Ale. It had spent 14 years in a barrel.
@nateo Here's where I read about the charred oak cubes idea. https://www.bertusbrewery.com/2017/01/2016-mellow-midnight-update.html
Post by: denny on May 28, 2021, 09:15:56 am
.........................and? You can't make a statement like that and not say how it tasted, Denny. Come on...I have done a lot of barrel aging. IME even is 55 gallon barrels a year is far too long. Smaller barrels can pick up wood character in weeks. There is nothing that taste worse than an over-oaked beer. OK, tat's not true. But it still is undrinkable.
I once had a chance to taste a 74 year old Ballantine Burton Ale. It had spent 14 years in a barrel.
@nateo Here's where I read about the charred oak cubes idea. https://www.bertusbrewery.com/2017/01/2016-mellow-midnight-update.html
Didn't taste a lot like beer. More like watered down Scotch.
Post by: majorvices on May 28, 2021, 09:22:21 am
I have done a lot of barrel aging. IME even is 55 gallon barrels a year is far too long. Smaller barrels can pick up wood character in weeks. There is nothing that taste worse than an over-oaked beer. OK, tat's not true. But it still is undrinkable.
I once had a chance to taste a 74 year old Ballantine Burton Ale. It had spent 14 years in a barrel.
Most likely that barrel was treated with either brewer's pitch or it was so old that it had only remnants of wood left. I have used old wine barrels that I have aged fairly long in. Most dfrshly dumped bourbon barrels (like mostly we get) are going to give a LOT of bourbon character in a very short period. Surprisingly short, actually. The biggest problem with a lot of small breweries barrel program is over aging in barrels. I've had beers aged for years in wooden barrels that tasted like oxidized tannins -- of course a lot of beer drinkers thought they were great! They were not.
Once you move into the smaller barrels the oak flavor becomes overwhelming even more quickly due to the beer ratio to wood surface. A couple of weeks sometimes. I have pulled beer out of freshly dumbed 10 gallon whiskey barrels that had plenty of wood character in under a month. You could taste plenty of wood, plenty of whiskey but it tasted like beer first.
As always, YMMV.
Post by: beersk on May 28, 2021, 09:45:25 am
Which might be good to some...probably not me..........................and? You can't make a statement like that and not say how it tasted, Denny. Come on...I have done a lot of barrel aging. IME even is 55 gallon barrels a year is far too long. Smaller barrels can pick up wood character in weeks. There is nothing that taste worse than an over-oaked beer. OK, tat's not true. But it still is undrinkable.
I once had a chance to taste a 74 year old Ballantine Burton Ale. It had spent 14 years in a barrel.
@nateo Here's where I read about the charred oak cubes idea. https://www.bertusbrewery.com/2017/01/2016-mellow-midnight-update.html
Didn't taste a lot like beer. More like watered down Scotch.
Post by: denny on May 28, 2021, 10:07:17 am
Which might be good to some...probably not me..........................and? You can't make a statement like that and not say how it tasted, Denny. Come on...I have done a lot of barrel aging. IME even is 55 gallon barrels a year is far too long. Smaller barrels can pick up wood character in weeks. There is nothing that taste worse than an over-oaked beer. OK, tat's not true. But it still is undrinkable.
I once had a chance to taste a 74 year old Ballantine Burton Ale. It had spent 14 years in a barrel.
@nateo Here's where I read about the charred oak cubes idea. https://www.bertusbrewery.com/2017/01/2016-mellow-midnight-update.html
Didn't taste a lot like beer. More like watered down Scotch.
I found it extremely interesting, but not real enjoyable.
Post by: riceral on May 28, 2021, 11:34:56 am
The most major award I've ever won was for a 5 year old Am. BW. Some beers can age well for years, but I wouldn't count on it.
I agree with Denny here and also with Dave on aging beers for long periods of time. I have English Barleywines here that date back to 2014. The '14 is almost gone, but is still pretty good and won a BOS at a competition when it was three years old. Every once in a while I open one of the ones from past years and they are still pretty good. This is one style that ages very well. Some stouts IMHO age pretty well, but I would keep them around for 10 years, six to eight months is probably the max for those.
I hope you're right Goose.
I have a 3 year old English barleywine in the NHC this year.
Post by: Fire Rooster on May 29, 2021, 03:56:56 am
No idea on the date, been aged a few years before being released, and that was a few years ago.
Never had a barley wine, intended to have for thanksgiving, but that didn't happen, family drama's
prevented that. Waiting for cold winter months and a special occasion to have, not sure when,
in the meantime it's aging more. Originally tried to snag their wine barrel aged one,
nowhere to be found.
Post by: majorvices on May 29, 2021, 06:04:37 am
I have a bottle of Sierra Nevada's, A Trip in the Woods, bourbon barrel aged, 12.1 ABV.
No idea on the date, been aged a few years before being released, and that was a few years ago.
Never had a barley wine, intended to have for thanksgiving, but that didn't happen, family drama's
prevented that. Waiting for cold winter months and a special occasion to have, not sure when,
in the meantime it's aging more. Originally tried to snag their wine barrel aged one,
nowhere to be found.
I found three versions of Trip in the Woods a couple years ago.I enjoyed all three including the bourbon barrel aged one. Very nice!
Post by: Fire Rooster on May 29, 2021, 07:15:03 am
I have a bottle of Sierra Nevada's, A Trip in the Woods, bourbon barrel aged, 12.1 ABV.
No idea on the date, been aged a few years before being released, and that was a few years ago.
Never had a barley wine, intended to have for thanksgiving, but that didn't happen, family drama's
prevented that. Waiting for cold winter months and a special occasion to have, not sure when,
in the meantime it's aging more. Originally tried to snag their wine barrel aged one,
nowhere to be found.
I found three versions of Trip in the Woods a couple years ago.I enjoyed all three including the bourbon barrel aged one. Very nice!
I'm late to the game for barleywine, I strongly desired the wine barrel aged one,
being a recovered wine snob and all.