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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: fredthecat on June 12, 2021, 06:03:11 AM

Title: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: fredthecat on June 12, 2021, 06:03:11 AM
ive made english-intended beers, bitters, strong ales, just "ales", porters, etc


does anyone have any favourite "english" grists or tricks?


my well improved bitter recipe is looking like 94% golden promise(?) 3% crystal 120, 3% crystal 60 with WLP007 and 1.042OG/ 45 IBU

using WLP007 so not adding any sugar to it.

i will say i am not a massive fan of maris otter. im trying golden promise to see if i like it.
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: Ortizer on June 12, 2021, 03:02:46 PM
ive made english-intended beers, bitters, strong ales, just "ales", porters, etc


does anyone have any favourite "english" grists or tricks?


my well improved bitter recipe is looking like 94% golden promise(?) 3% crystal 120, 3% crystal 60 with WLP007 and 1.042OG/ 45 IBU

using WLP007 so not adding any sugar to it.

i will say i am not a massive fan of maris otter. im trying golden promise to see if i like it.
We definitely have liked Golden Promise better than MO for our stout and esb.

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Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: majorvices on June 12, 2021, 03:08:27 PM
I've had great success with Ron Patterson's Book "The Homebrewer's Guide to Vintage Beers". 

His blog is well worth your gander too

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com

Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: fredthecat on June 12, 2021, 04:39:02 PM
ive made english-intended beers, bitters, strong ales, just "ales", porters, etc


does anyone have any favourite "english" grists or tricks?


my well improved bitter recipe is looking like 94% golden promise(?) 3% crystal 120, 3% crystal 60 with WLP007 and 1.042OG/ 45 IBU

using WLP007 so not adding any sugar to it.

i will say i am not a massive fan of maris otter. im trying golden promise to see if i like it.
We definitely have liked Golden Promise better than MO for our stout and esb.


thanks, looks like i will have to give it a try.
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: erockrph on June 12, 2021, 05:04:10 PM
Personally, Crisp MO is my go-to, but if you don't like MO, then try Vienna, GP, or a Pale Ale malt (Dingemans has worked well for me) as alternatives for your base malt. I do find that a flavorful Pale Ale malt carries a lot of the flavor, so definitely find one you enjoy.

Torrified wheat at about 10-15% of the grist adds a nice nuttiness if that works in the recipe you're brewing.

English styles actually run a wide spectrum. Try different yeasts and base malts to see what you like, then dial in your recipes and process from there. I use 1469 the most, but I also enjoy 1968, WLP013 and Winsor/Notty, and I have others on my wish list that I haven't gotten around to trying yet.

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Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: denny on June 12, 2021, 05:43:13 PM
ive made english-intended beers, bitters, strong ales, just "ales", porters, etc


does anyone have any favourite "english" grists or tricks?


my well improved bitter recipe is looking like 94% golden promise(?) 3% crystal 120, 3% crystal 60 with WLP007 and 1.042OG/ 45 IBU

using WLP007 so not adding any sugar to it.

i will say i am not a massive fan of maris otter. im trying golden promise to see if i like it.
We definitely have liked Golden Promise better than MO for our stout and esb.


thanks, looks like i will have to give it a try.

Keep in mind that GP is just a barley variety.  It's what the maltster does with it that really makes the difference. I prefer Simpson's GP to Fawcett.
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: fredthecat on June 12, 2021, 06:08:28 PM
Personally, Crisp MO is my go-to, but if you don't like MO, then try Vienna, GP, or a Pale Ale malt (Dingemans has worked well for me) as alternatives for your base malt. I do find that a flavorful Pale Ale malt carries a lot of the flavor, so definitely find one you enjoy.

Torrified wheat at about 10-15% of the grist adds a nice nuttiness if that works in the recipe you're brewing.

English styles actually run a wide spectrum. Try different yeasts and base malts to see what you like, then dial in your recipes and process from there. I use 1469 the most, but I also enjoy 1968, WLP013 and Winsor/Notty, and I have others on my wish list that I haven't gotten around to trying yet.


yup, thats what i've decided i'm working on this brew-year. really keeping it simple in recipe formulation. torrified wheat - i better try it at some point finally.

isn't 1469 a PITA to deal with? is it relatively forgiving? what do you think about WLP007?
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: erockrph on June 12, 2021, 08:12:47 PM
Personally, Crisp MO is my go-to, but if you don't like MO, then try Vienna, GP, or a Pale Ale malt (Dingemans has worked well for me) as alternatives for your base malt. I do find that a flavorful Pale Ale malt carries a lot of the flavor, so definitely find one you enjoy.

Torrified wheat at about 10-15% of the grist adds a nice nuttiness if that works in the recipe you're brewing.

English styles actually run a wide spectrum. Try different yeasts and base malts to see what you like, then dial in your recipes and process from there. I use 1469 the most, but I also enjoy 1968, WLP013 and Winsor/Notty, and I have others on my wish list that I haven't gotten around to trying yet.


yup, thats what i've decided i'm working on this brew-year. really keeping it simple in recipe formulation. torrified wheat - i better try it at some point finally.

isn't 1469 a PITA to deal with? is it relatively forgiving? what do you think about WLP007?

For me, 1469 is super easy and forgiving in my experience. I brew 2.5-gallon batches, and pitch 1 pack without a starter in pretty much all my recipes with it (typically in the 1.040 range, but I've gone up to the mid 1.060's OG). Even though it is a Yorkshire yeast, it doesn't require the heavy oxygenation that other Yorkshire strains require. I don't add any supplemental oxygen, or even aeration for that matter. I let the wort splash as I drain into my fermentation keg, pitch, seal the keg, and let her go.

WLP007 is pretty clean to me. It's great for West Coast IPA, but I prefer more esters in my English ales. I've only used it a couple of times, so don't take my wordas gospel on that one.
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: Iliff Ave on June 13, 2021, 02:38:54 AM
I know stone’s house yeast was 007 if it not anymore and their specialty is west coast ipa. I’m no English style brewer but I think something with more character might be a good touch.
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: pete b on June 13, 2021, 11:53:46 AM
I have been using WY1469 a lot and do not find it at all difficult, in fact it has been a consistent performer. When I first started using it I gave the wort extra aeration but the last two times I just used the aeration from running the wort into the fermenter like Eric mentioned and I didn’t see a difference.
I use a couple simple grist formulations. I like MO and recently used Simpson’s GP for the first time and liked that too. However what I have used most is a pale ale malt, specifically from my local master, Valley Malt. I almost always do 99% base malt and 1% black malt for color or 95% base and 5% 60L crystal. The former is inspired by Timothy Taylor’s Landlord, the latter by Whitbread IPA.
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: chumley on June 14, 2021, 08:47:42 PM
"does anyone have any favourite "english" grists or tricks?"

Yes, use sugar.

I just tapped my latest British ale this past weekend, and it is quite tasty. 85% Simpson's Maris Otter, 10% Lyle's Golden syrup, 5% Hugh Baird Carastan. A little inverted sugar gives a nice toffee flavor that pairs well with the dirt hops.
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: majorvices on June 14, 2021, 09:17:25 PM
"does anyone have any favourite "english" grists or tricks?"

Yes, use sugar.

I just tapped my latest British ale this past weekend, and it is quite tasty. 85% Simpson's Maris Otter, 10% Lyle's Golden syrup, 5% Hugh Baird Carastan. A little inverted sugar gives a nice toffee flavor that pairs well with the dirt hops.

Agree ... also, Ron Patterson's book/blog. ;)
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: fredthecat on June 14, 2021, 09:18:45 PM
"does anyone have any favourite "english" grists or tricks?"

Yes, use sugar.

I just tapped my latest British ale this past weekend, and it is quite tasty. 85% Simpson's Maris Otter, 10% Lyle's Golden syrup, 5% Hugh Baird Carastan. A little inverted sugar gives a nice toffee flavor that pairs well with the dirt hops.

i have been off and on in my recipe formulation about using some sugar in the planned british brews. might do it.

lol carastan, haven't heard that malt in quite a while.
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: Kevin on June 15, 2021, 01:34:32 PM
English malted barley. Invert sugar #3 or #2. Very little crystal malt.

English hops but brewers there also imported plenty of hops from America and continental Europe.

I have used S-04 and don't care for it. Switched to Wyeast 1099 for several years and have lately been experimenting with Imperial A-09 and A01 with satisfactory results. I'll need to do a side by side comparison  between these and 1099 at some point.
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: Cliffs on June 15, 2021, 03:36:52 PM
"does anyone have any favourite "english" grists or tricks?"

Yes, use sugar.

I just tapped my latest British ale this past weekend, and it is quite tasty. 85% Simpson's Maris Otter, 10% Lyle's Golden syrup, 5% Hugh Baird Carastan. A little inverted sugar gives a nice toffee flavor that pairs well with the dirt hops.

you sure the dirt flavor isnt from from so many of the english hops we get stateside being past their prime? I know this sounds semantic, but I have tasted earthiness in hops, and then straight dirt flavor from hops, and the difference seemed to be hop freshness.
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: majorvices on June 15, 2021, 03:38:45 PM
English malted barley. Invert sugar #3 or #2. Very little crystal malt.

English hops but brewers there also imported plenty of hops from America and continental Europe.

I have used S-04 and don't care for it. Switched to Wyeast 1099 for several years and have lately been experimenting with Imperial A-09 and A01 with satisfactory results. I'll need to do a side by side comparison  between these and 1099 at some point.

Agree with everything here. That said, the imported American hops were probably nothing like our fruity/citrusy/tropical hops that are popuar today and were probably more herbal and flowery.

I definitely do not care for any of the Dry English ale yeasts I have tried, and I really don't care for So4 at all. I think WY1099 may be my new favorite English Ale yeast
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: chumley on June 16, 2021, 05:24:13 PM
"does anyone have any favourite "english" grists or tricks?"

Yes, use sugar.

I just tapped my latest British ale this past weekend, and it is quite tasty. 85% Simpson's Maris Otter, 10% Lyle's Golden syrup, 5% Hugh Baird Carastan. A little inverted sugar gives a nice toffee flavor that pairs well with the dirt hops.

you sure the dirt flavor isnt from from so many of the english hops we get stateside being past their prime? I know this sounds semantic, but I have tasted earthiness in hops, and then straight dirt flavor from hops, and the difference seemed to be hop freshness.

I don't distinguish a difference between "earthiness" and "dirt" flavor. That said, a reasonably fresh bottle of Theakston's Old Peculier has the classic Fuggles dirt hop flavor that I have been able to replicate in clone attempts.

My scale for English dirt hop flavor, in terms of most to less pronounced, would be:

Bramling Cross - Fuggles - Target - Challenger - Northdown

FYI, unlike Denny, I like the flavor of dirt hops. And, EKGs have no dirt hop flavor at all (to my taste buds).
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: denny on June 16, 2021, 05:35:31 PM
"does anyone have any favourite "english" grists or tricks?"

Yes, use sugar.

I just tapped my latest British ale this past weekend, and it is quite tasty. 85% Simpson's Maris Otter, 10% Lyle's Golden syrup, 5% Hugh Baird Carastan. A little inverted sugar gives a nice toffee flavor that pairs well with the dirt hops.

you sure the dirt flavor isnt from from so many of the english hops we get stateside being past their prime? I know this sounds semantic, but I have tasted earthiness in hops, and then straight dirt flavor from hops, and the difference seemed to be hop freshness.

I don't distinguish a difference between "earthiness" and "dirt" flavor. That said, a reasonably fresh bottle of Theakston's Old Peculier has the classic Fuggles dirt hop flavor that I have been able to replicate in clone attempts.

My scale for English dirt hop flavor, in terms of most to less pronounced, would be:

Bramling Cross - Fuggles - Target - Challenger - Northdown

FYI, unlike Denny, I like the flavor of dirt hops. And, EKGs have no dirt hop flavor at all (to my taste buds).

I have heard EKG referred to as having a "candy" flavor....pretty vague.
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: pete b on June 16, 2021, 06:51:16 PM
"does anyone have any favourite "english" grists or tricks?"

Yes, use sugar.

I just tapped my latest British ale this past weekend, and it is quite tasty. 85% Simpson's Maris Otter, 10% Lyle's Golden syrup, 5% Hugh Baird Carastan. A little inverted sugar gives a nice toffee flavor that pairs well with the dirt hops.

you sure the dirt flavor isnt from from so many of the english hops we get stateside being past their prime? I know this sounds semantic, but I have tasted earthiness in hops, and then straight dirt flavor from hops, and the difference seemed to be hop freshness.

I don't distinguish a difference between "earthiness" and "dirt" flavor. That said, a reasonably fresh bottle of Theakston's Old Peculier has the classic Fuggles dirt hop flavor that I have been able to replicate in clone attempts.

My scale for English dirt hop flavor, in terms of most to less pronounced, would be:

Bramling Cross - Fuggles - Target - Challenger - Northdown

FYI, unlike Denny, I like the flavor of dirt hops. And, EKGs have no dirt hop flavor at all (to my taste buds).

I have heard EKG referred to as having a "candy" flavor....pretty vague.
I get black tea above all from EKG.
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: fredthecat on June 17, 2021, 01:29:47 AM

I get black tea above all from EKG.

definitely black tea and mild herbal/thyme.












Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: BrewingRover on June 18, 2021, 02:52:42 PM
English malted barley. Invert sugar #3 or #2. Very little crystal malt.

English hops but brewers there also imported plenty of hops from America and continental Europe.

I have used S-04 and don't care for it. Switched to Wyeast 1099 for several years and have lately been experimenting with Imperial A-09 and A01 with satisfactory results. I'll need to do a side by side comparison  between these and 1099 at some point.

Agree with everything here. That said, the imported American hops were probably nothing like our fruity/citrusy/tropical hops that are popuar today and were probably more herbal and flowery.

I definitely do not care for any of the Dry English ale yeasts I have tried, and I really don't care for So4 at all. I think WY1099 may be my new favorite English Ale yeast

When I did the Fuller's tour in London, they had boxes and boxes of Liberty hops from Hopsteiner in the storeroom. I don't remember if I asked which beer they used them in.

I flummoxed the tour guide when I asked him about whether 1968 was their yeast. He was sure it had never been propagated outside the brewery.
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: majorvices on June 19, 2021, 01:13:11 AM
English malted barley. Invert sugar #3 or #2. Very little crystal malt.

English hops but brewers there also imported plenty of hops from America and continental Europe.

I have used S-04 and don't care for it. Switched to Wyeast 1099 for several years and have lately been experimenting with Imperial A-09 and A01 with satisfactory results. I'll need to do a side by side comparison  between these and 1099 at some point.

Agree with everything here. That said, the imported American hops were probably nothing like our fruity/citrusy/tropical hops that are popuar today and were probably more herbal and flowery.

I definitely do not care for any of the Dry English ale yeasts I have tried, and I really don't care for So4 at all. I think WY1099 may be my new favorite English Ale yeast

When I did the Fuller's tour in London, they had boxes and boxes of Liberty hops from Hopsteiner in the storeroom. I don't remember if I asked which beer they used them in.

I flummoxed the tour guide when I asked him about whether 1968 was their yeast. He was sure it had never been propagated outside the brewery.

I'm talking historically, which may not be appropriate for this discussion. Regarding 1968 -- never trust a tour guides BS. ;)
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: BrewingRover on June 19, 2021, 03:33:51 PM
I'm talking historically, which may not be appropriate for this discussion. Regarding 1968 -- never trust a tour guides BS. ;)

Oh, I didn't.  ;)
I really wanted to ask him about the cask breathers I could hear in the tasting room, but he was pouring samples of everything, so why make him upset?
Title: Re: secrets or opinions on english grists
Post by: majorvices on June 19, 2021, 08:14:46 PM
I'm talking historically, which may not be appropriate for this discussion. Regarding 1968 -- never trust a tour guides BS. ;)

Oh, I didn't.  ;)
I really wanted to ask him about the cask breathers I could hear in the tasting room, but he was pouring samples of everything, so why make him upset?
That’s just being smart!


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