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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: Bel Air Brewing on October 03, 2021, 05:28:38 pm

Title: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on October 03, 2021, 05:28:38 pm
Getting set to brew 10 gallons of Vienna Lager tomorrow.
Here is the grain:
12 lbs Ireks Light Munich
4 lbs Ireks Vienna
3 lbs Weyermann Carared

Thoughts? My previous attempt was all Vienna with a little carared.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: fredthecat on October 03, 2021, 05:33:52 pm
if you are making a copy of what people imagine negra modelo to be then sure.


when i think of vienna lager, as ive stated before (i think there was an entire many, many page thread on this already wasnt there?) i think of ottakringer vienna.

if i made that i would go 98% vienna, 2% carafa. noble hops to ~32 IBU.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on October 03, 2021, 05:50:54 pm
if you are making a copy of what people imagine negra modelo to be then sure.


when i think of vienna lager, as ive stated before (i think there was an entire many, many page thread on this already wasnt there?) i think of ottakringer vienna.

if i made that i would go 98% vienna, 2% carafa. noble hops to ~32 IBU.

Did not want to buy more grain, so went with what we have. Had a hard time getting the correct SRM without going too high on the OG.
According to Brewer’s Friend, this should get in the ballpark. At 85% efficiency.

Tettnang hops.

I was not looking to specifically replicate a Negra Modelo. But all of the info found online says this is a Vienna Lager.

This, taken from a BJCP training class:

3A. Vienna Lager

Please get your sample of 3A. Vienna Lager (Negra Modelo) and evaluate it.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Iliff Ave on October 03, 2021, 08:03:10 pm
Negra modelo uses corn if I’m not mistaken. Too much crystal malt for my taste and Vienna lager seems to showcase Vienna malt more but I bet it will be tasty. Seems closer to an American style marzen to me.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: erockrph on October 03, 2021, 09:03:08 pm
Negra modelo uses corn if I’m not mistaken. Too much crystal malt for my taste and Vienna lager seems to showcase Vienna malt more but I bet it will be tasty. Seems closer to an American style marzen to me.
Yeah, to me a Vienna leads with Vienna malt. A bit of light Munich or a light Cara malt is fine for depth of flavor, but this grain bill looks more like a Bock to me.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on October 04, 2021, 04:50:10 am
Thanks for the input. My last Vienna was all Vienna malt, with 10% Carared. It is Ok. I am attempting something closer to the style guidelines, but not targeting Negra Modelo as a goal.

The plan was to enter this in a competition.

This will not have the ABV to put it into Bock territory. The Munich is Ireks Light Munich.

Here is what the recipe builder says…

Matches styles based on stats only:
Oktoberfest/Märzen, Irish Red Ale, Belgian Pale Ale, Saison, Belgian Specialty Ale, Fruit Beer, Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer, Other Smoked Beer, Specialty Beer, Vienna Lager, Kellerbier: Amber Kellerbier, Belgian Pale Ale, Saison
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: erockrph on October 04, 2021, 06:13:41 am
Thanks for the input. My last Vienna was all Vienna malt, with 10% Carared. It is Ok. I am attempting something closer to the style guidelines, but not targeting Negra Modelo as a goal.

The plan was to enter this in a competition.

This will not have the ABV to put it into Bock territory.
It looks like you're trying to brew to the color of the style guidelines, rather than the flavor. Beyond that, it also looks like you're using crystal malt to hit your color target, which is almost universally a bad idea. Generally, you want to dial in your flavor first, and then use something like Carafa/Sinamar/Midnight Wheat/etc., if you need feel the need to boost the SRM a bit. "Vienna Lager" is not what comes to mind when I see this recipe.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: fredthecat on October 04, 2021, 06:47:17 am
Thanks for the input. My last Vienna was all Vienna malt, with 10% Carared. It is Ok. I am attempting something closer to the style guidelines, but not targeting Negra Modelo as a goal.

The plan was to enter this in a competition.

This will not have the ABV to put it into Bock territory. The Munich is Ireks Light Munich.

Here is what the recipe builder says…

Matches styles based on stats only:
Oktoberfest/Märzen, Irish Red Ale, Belgian Pale Ale, Saison, Belgian Specialty Ale, Fruit Beer, Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer, Other Smoked Beer, Specialty Beer, Vienna Lager, Kellerbier: Amber Kellerbier, Belgian Pale Ale, Saison


i can match the style of a dubbel through "stats" with 13% crystal 40, 80% 2row and 7% dextrose, 1oz cascade at 60 and 1oz cascade at flameout. boom i just hit within the IBU, SRM and OG/FG in brewtarget. thats a "Belgian Dubbel"
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: jverduin on October 04, 2021, 06:56:29 am
Getting set to brew 10 gallons of Vienna Lager tomorrow.
Here is the grain:
12 lbs Ireks Light Munich
4 lbs Ireks Vienna
3 lbs Weyermann Carared

Thoughts? My previous attempt was all Vienna with a little carared.
In prepping for a competition, I had tried a few variations on my approach to the grain bill. In the final version, I settled on a decision to omit any crystal malts. I used a large portion of 60-20-20 Vienna, Munich, and Pils. I added 2 ozs of Carafa Special II to get the beer to a color of 10 (recipe calculated 10, but it looked a bit higher to me).

I find that, for my taste, my Amber and darker lagers taste cleaner to me without the crystal malts. I’ve dropped them or really restrained them (1/2 pound caramunich in a doppelbock) and have enjoyed the results.


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Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on October 04, 2021, 07:03:37 am
Ok…and thanks again for the input. Yes, the SRM was of concern, as was the ABV.
It is experimental in nature, so if it does not hit my target, no big deal.
So far, it looks good. Nice color, about a 9.5 or 10, and very clear.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on October 04, 2021, 03:07:34 pm
We have no idea about taste, but we hit our OG target, and the SRM target.
Little benefit that has if the flavor is not good!
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Saccharomyces on October 04, 2021, 03:13:42 pm
I just brewed a 3-galllon batch Vienna with a grist composed of 96% Vienna Malt and 6% CaraRed.  This beer completely blows my brewed to the BJCP standard attempts at Vienna away. There is no comparison.  It is smooth and toasty with a nice reddish, amber tint.  The beer was bittered to 31 IBUs (Tinseth) using three equal additions of Mt. Hood at 45, 30, and 15.  I used a spider so the actual IBUs are definitely under 31 IBUs.  My guess would be 28 or less.  Diamond Lager worked very well in this batch.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on October 04, 2021, 03:32:16 pm
I just brewed a 3-galllon batch Vienna with a grist composed of 96% Vienna Malt and 6% CaraRed.  This beer completely blows my brewed to the BJCP standard attempts at Vienna away. There is no comparison.  It is smooth and toasty with a nice reddish, amber tint.  The beer was bittered to 31 IBUs (Tinseth) using three equal additions of Mt. Hood at 45, 30, and 15.  I used a spider so the actual IBUs are definitely under 31 IBUs.  My guess would be 28 or less.  Diamond Lager worked very well in this batch.

My previous attempt was like yours, but 90 / 10. With W-34/70 yeast. This time we are using our new go to lager yeast, Diamond.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Richard on October 04, 2021, 03:39:54 pm
I just brewed a 3-galllon batch Vienna with a grist composed of 96% Vienna Malt and 6% CaraRed.  This beer completely blows my brewed to the BJCP standard attempts at Vienna away. There is no comparison.  It is smooth and toasty with a nice reddish, amber tint.  The beer was bittered to 31 IBUs (Tinseth) using three equal additions of Mt. Hood at 45, 30, and 15.  I used a spider so the actual IBUs are definitely under 31 IBUs.  My guess would be 28 or less.  Diamond Lager worked very well in this batch.
Which Vienna malt did you use? I am considering brewing one with Mecca Grade Vanora, but I wasn't going to go as high as 90% with it. I have never brewed a Vienna Lager before, although I have tasted many.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Saccharomyces on October 04, 2021, 04:59:52 pm
Which Vienna malt did you use? I am considering brewing one with Mecca Grade Vanora, but I wasn't going to go as high as 90% with it. I have never brewed a Vienna Lager before, although I have tasted many.

I used Weyermann Vienna malt.  Weyermann is becoming my favorite maltster for continental malts other than pils.  I have stuck with Avangard pils because I have gotten a consistent year-to-year extraction rate.  It has a good taste and it is cheaper than most other continental pils malt offerings.  Personally, I know that some of the craft maltsters produce good malt, but I personally avoid using domestic malt in continental lager.  It does not taste the same and continental lager is all about the malt.

I have brewed Vienna using various amounts of pils, munich, crystal/caramel, and colored malt in the past, but most have been underwhelming.  I think that near 100% Vienna is the way to go.  As far as to crystal malt, I have found over the years that 5 to 6% is the Goldilocks zone where it adds color and body without adding to much caramel flavor.  I even use 6% CaraHell in Bo Pils. Vienna malt is kilned roughly to the same color as pale ale malt.  It just has a different flavor.  Anton Dreher copied the way that the British made pale ale malt in smokeless kilns.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on October 04, 2021, 05:16:22 pm
In our Vienna Lagers, we have always used Ireks.
The only other brand we use is Weyermann, and their floor malted Bohemian Pilsner malt is good stuff. Well suited for multiple step mashes.
Ireks has proven to be consistent in quality, and is usually less expensive.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Saccharomyces on October 04, 2021, 05:27:03 pm
Malt availability is definitely a regional thing.  I purchase my malt from the oldest and largest home brewing supply store in my area.  They have a good selection of malt and will special order any malt, but they do not carry Ireks, so there will be not cost savings.  Their main continental pils malt is Avangard followed by Weyermann.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: fredthecat on October 04, 2021, 07:22:38 pm
Which Vienna malt did you use? I am considering brewing one with Mecca Grade Vanora, but I wasn't going to go as high as 90% with it. I have never brewed a Vienna Lager before, although I have tasted many.

I used Weyermann Vienna malt.  Weyermann is becoming my favorite maltster for continental malts other than pils.  I have stuck with Avangard pils because I have gotten a consistent year-to-year extraction rate.  It has a good taste and it is cheaper than most other continental pils malt offerings.  Personally, I know that some of the craft maltsters produce good malt, but I personally avoid using domestic malt in continental lager.  It does not taste the same and continental lager is all about the malt.

I have brewed Vienna using various amounts of pils, munich, crystal/caramel, and colored malt in the past, but most have been underwhelming.  I think that near 100% Vienna is the way to go.  As far as to crystal malt, I have found over the years that 5 to 6% is the Goldilocks zone where it adds color and body without adding to much caramel flavor.  I even use 6% CaraHell in Bo Pils. Vienna malt is kilned roughly to the same color as pale ale malt.  It just has a different flavor.  Anton Dreher copied the way that the British made pale ale malt in smokeless kilns.

the guy who wrote a book about anton dreher and is austrian really fleshed out his interesting story, and yes, overall he was using british/scottish 1800s brewing as his model to copy from. its a pretty cool story that could easily be a made-for-tv tier 60 minute movie.

vienna does have a distinctive taste, im hoping to analyze it more this year. ive got a dubbel fermenting now that's malt is about 95% vienna malt, 5% specialty ones

Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on October 04, 2021, 08:02:01 pm
From a purely technical and style guideline point of view, is Negra Modelo a Vienna Lager?
I have consumed a fair amount of this brew, but not in many years.
Title: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: BrewBama on October 04, 2021, 09:17:22 pm
From a purely technical and style guideline point of view, is Negra Modelo a Vienna Lager?
I have consumed a fair amount of this brew, but not in many years.

Modelo Negra is brewed to be a Dunkel:

“Brewed longer to enhance the flavors, this Munich Dunkel-style Lager gives way to a rich flavor and remarkably smooth taste. Modelo Negra contains Water, Barley Malt, Non-malted Cereals and Hops.”

I doubt they give two rips what the HomeBrew guide says.

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Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: erockrph on October 04, 2021, 09:43:17 pm
From a purely technical and style guideline point of view, is Negra Modelo a Vienna Lager?
I have consumed a fair amount of this brew, but not in many years.

Modelo Negra is brewed to be a Dunkel:

“Brewed longer to enhance the flavors, this Munich Dunkel-style Lager gives way to a rich flavor and remarkably smooth taste. Modelo Negra contains Water, Barley Malt, Non-malted Cereals and Hops.”

I doubt they give two rips what the HomeBrew guide says.

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They may call it that, and it may look like one, but it is most certainly not a Dunkel. It may taste closer to a Vienna, but I have a hard time even calling it that. Don't get me wrong, I drink and enjoy my fair share of Negra Modelo, but it definitely tastes more like an adjunct lager than a continental one.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: fredthecat on October 04, 2021, 10:17:44 pm
From a purely technical and style guideline point of view, is Negra Modelo a Vienna Lager?
I have consumed a fair amount of this brew, but not in many years.

Modelo Negra is brewed to be a Dunkel:

“Brewed longer to enhance the flavors, this Munich Dunkel-style Lager gives way to a rich flavor and remarkably smooth taste. Modelo Negra contains Water, Barley Malt, Non-malted Cereals and Hops.”

I doubt they give two rips what the HomeBrew guide says.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
They may call it that, and it may look like one, but it is most certainly not a Dunkel. It may taste closer to a Vienna, but I have a hard time even calling it that. Don't get me wrong, I drink and enjoy my fair share of Negra Modelo, but it definitely tastes more like an adjunct lager than a continental one.

yup, ive never been a fan, its one of the most inexplicable things about americans and this beer. i tried the pale modelo whatever its called by the same company and its even worse.

its been years, but if i wanted to clone negra modelo i would do 1lb crystal 40 for direct sweetness and colour, black caramel colouring to make it that reddy colour and stick that on a NAIL. make sure its left in the bottle for at least 6 months for that papery, cardboardy taste. perfect clone.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on October 05, 2021, 05:43:50 am
Are Vienna Lagers produced in Europe? Is there a good example available in the US, nationally?

The traditional Vienna Lager recipe consists of only Vienna malt, and displays more toffee, bready flavors. Vienna Lager recipes today are likely to contain Munich malt, Pilsner malt, Vienna malt, and dextrin malt, and in certain situations, some brewers call for wheat in their Vienna Lager. Aside from malt, the Vienna Lager hops are German Noble hops and the Vienna Lager yeast is of course bottom fermenting Lager yeast. The Noble hops are used subtly and offer low hop bitterness.

https://craftbeerclub.com/beer-style/vienna-lager


Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: BrewBama on October 05, 2021, 05:50:17 am
... i tried the pale modelo whatever its called by the same company and its even worse.



Especial. It’s their version of a Pils-style.

While I certainly understand the want and desire of beer enthusiasts for commercial brewers to meet their expectations, I imagine they’ll continue to brew their interpretation of the various styles for their target markets.

Wether it is Sam Adams, SN Märzen-Oktoberfest, Shiner Bock, or Modelo, the option to vote with your wallet still exists.



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Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on October 05, 2021, 06:19:30 am
... i tried the pale modelo whatever its called by the same company and its even worse.



Especial. It’s their version of a Pils-style.

While I certainly understand the want and desire of beer enthusiasts for commercial brewers to meet their expectations, I imagine they’ll continue to brew their interpretation of the various styles for their target markets.

Wether it is Sam Adams, SN Märzen-Oktoberfest, Shiner Bock, or Modelo, the option to vote with your wallet still exists.

Exactly. And you will not find any of the beers listed here in my house.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: fredthecat on October 05, 2021, 07:49:35 am
Are Vienna Lagers produced in Europe? Is there a good example available in the US, nationally?

The traditional Vienna Lager recipe consists of only Vienna malt, and displays more toffee, bready flavors. Vienna Lager recipes today are likely to contain Munich malt, Pilsner malt, Vienna malt, and dextrin malt, and in certain situations, some brewers call for wheat in their Vienna Lager. Aside from malt, the Vienna Lager hops are German Noble hops and the Vienna Lager yeast is of course bottom fermenting Lager yeast. The Noble hops are used subtly and offer low hop bitterness.

https://craftbeerclub.com/beer-style/vienna-lager

im not trying to say im an expert on viennas, but that is just some stuff that someone wrote about a style that isnt well known and doesnt have a single or group of style leaders well known for people to taste. toffee flavours? from what? thats not what comes to mind either when i think of it. and i wouldnt say low bitterness.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: ynotbrusum on October 05, 2021, 08:39:03 am
For what it is worth, Weyermann now sells a Vienna Barke malt that is very flavorful.  I try to avoid any crystals in most every lager style, but a light hand is permissible.  Actually, the BJCP Style Guideline for 2015 (Comments and Style Comparison sections) capture the essence of the style:

"Comments
A standard-strength everyday beer, not a beer brewed for festivals. American versions can be a bit stronger, drier and more bitter, while modern European versions tend to be sweeter. Many Mexican amber and dark lagers used to be more authentic, but unfortunately are now more like sweet, adjunct-laden Amber/Dark International Lagers. Regrettably, many modern examples use adjuncts which lessen the rich malt complexity characteristic of the best examples of this style. This style is on the watch list to move to the Historical category in future guidelines; that would allow the classic style to be described while moving the sweeter modern versions to the International Amber or Dark Lager styles.

History
Developed by Anton Dreher in Vienna in 1841, became popular in the mid-late 1800s. Now nearly extinct in its area of origin, the style continues in Mexico where it was brought by Santiago Graf and other Austrian immigrant brewers in the late 1800s. Authentic examples are increasingly hard to find (except perhaps in the craft beer industry) as formerly good examples become sweeter and use more adjuncts.

Characteristic Ingredients
Vienna malt provides a lightly toasty and complex, Maillard-rich malt profile. As with Märzens, only the finest quality malt should be used, along with Continental hops (preferably Saazer types or Styrians). Can use some caramel malts and/or darker malts to add color and sweetness, but caramel malts shouldn’t add significant aroma and flavor and dark malts shouldn’t provide any roasted character.

Style Comparison
Lighter malt character, slightly less body, and slightly more bitter in the balance than a Märzen, yet with many of the same malt-derived flavors. The malt character is similar to a Märzen, but less intense and more balanced. Lower in alcohol than Märzen or Festbier. Less rich, less malty and less hop-centered compared to Czech Amber Lager.

Vital Statistics
IBU
18 - 30

SRM
9 - 15

OG
1.048 - 1.055

FG
1.010 - 1.014

ABV
4.7% - 5.5%

Commercial Examples
Cuauhtémoc Noche Buena, Chuckanut Vienna Lager, Devils Backbone Vienna Lager, Figueroa Mountain Danish-style Red Lager, Heavy Seas Cutlass Amber Lager, Schell’s Firebrick."

I must say IMHO that the Devil's Backbone version is pretty well made and quite drinkable.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: denny on October 05, 2021, 08:49:50 am
Which Vienna malt did you use? I am considering brewing one with Mecca Grade Vanora, but I wasn't going to go as high as 90% with it. I have never brewed a Vienna Lager before, although I have tasted many.

I used Weyermann Vienna malt.  Weyermann is becoming my favorite maltster for continental malts other than pils.  I have stuck with Avangard pils because I have gotten a consistent year-to-year extraction rate.  It has a good taste and it is cheaper than most other continental pils malt offerings.  Personally, I know that some of the craft maltsters produce good malt, but I personally avoid using domestic malt in continental lager.  It does not taste the same and continental lager is all about the malt.

I have brewed Vienna using various amounts of pils, munich, crystal/caramel, and colored malt in the past, but most have been underwhelming.  I think that near 100% Vienna is the way to go.  As far as to crystal malt, I have found over the years that 5 to 6% is the Goldilocks zone where it adds color and body without adding to much caramel flavor.  I even use 6% CaraHell in Bo Pils. Vienna malt is kilned roughly to the same color as pale ale malt.  It just has a different flavor.  Anton Dreher copied the way that the British made pale ale malt in smokeless kilns.

Have you tried Best?  I found that I preferred Best to Weyermann.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: denny on October 05, 2021, 08:51:06 am
From a purely technical and style guideline point of view, is Negra Modelo a Vienna Lager?
I have consumed a fair amount of this brew, but not in many years.

It used to be considered one, but between recipe changes and style shifts, it no longer is.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on October 05, 2021, 09:14:55 am
Just now sent an email to Best. Seeking a retailer close to us.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: denny on October 05, 2021, 10:33:15 am
Just now sent an email to Best. Seeking a retailer close to us.

Cool.  I think it's very good continental malt.  Worth a try to see what you think.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: ynotbrusum on October 05, 2021, 11:01:20 am
I love Best Pils - but have not tried Best Vienna yet.  It is something I just might ask for my LHBS to order for me.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: denny on October 05, 2021, 11:19:44 am
I love Best Pils - but have not tried Best Vienna yet.  It is something I just might ask for my LHBS to order for me.

I've used the pils (both regular and Heidelberg), the Munich and Vienna.  Very happy with all of them.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: majorvices on October 05, 2021, 12:45:38 pm
Best has been my go-to malt for continental style beers for years. Great price and high quality. I like Weyermann too, though.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: BeerfanOz on October 05, 2021, 12:47:09 pm
Heidelberg is awesome. Best is definitely my fave malt in all types of grain
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on October 05, 2021, 04:44:04 pm
Just now sent an email to Best. Seeking a retailer close to us.

Cool.  I think it's very good continental malt.  Worth a try to see what you think.

Received 3 replies from Best Malz. Very impressed! I will give them a go with my next order. We always order in bulk, 55 lb bags.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: ttash on October 06, 2021, 06:38:28 am
Are Vienna Lagers produced in Europe? Is there a good example available in the US, nationally?

The traditional Vienna Lager recipe consists of only Vienna malt, and displays more toffee, bready flavors. Vienna Lager recipes today are likely to contain Munich malt, Pilsner malt, Vienna malt, and dextrin malt, and in certain situations, some brewers call for wheat in their Vienna Lager. Aside from malt, the Vienna Lager hops are German Noble hops and the Vienna Lager yeast is of course bottom fermenting Lager yeast. The Noble hops are used subtly and offer low hop bitterness.

https://craftbeerclub.com/beer-style/vienna-lager

The best Vienna Lager I've had is Ottakringer, brewed in Austria. Definitely worth seeking out.
My favorite continental malts are from Bestmalz in Germany, also worth seeking out. 🍺
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: BeerfanOz on October 06, 2021, 12:54:54 pm
Are Vienna Lagers produced in Europe? Is there a good example available in the US, nationally?

The traditional Vienna Lager recipe consists of only Vienna malt, and displays more toffee, bready flavors. Vienna Lager recipes today are likely to contain Munich malt, Pilsner malt, Vienna malt, and dextrin malt, and in certain situations, some brewers call for wheat in their Vienna Lager. Aside from malt, the Vienna Lager hops are German Noble hops and the Vienna Lager yeast is of course bottom fermenting Lager yeast. The Noble hops are used subtly and offer low hop bitterness.

https://craftbeerclub.com/beer-style/vienna-lager

The best Vienna Lager I've had is Ottakringer, brewed in Austria. Definitely worth seeking out.
My favorite continental malts are from Bestmalz in Germany, also worth seeking out. 🍺


I’m pretty sure the last 4 or 5 replies have also suggested Best
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: ttash on October 06, 2021, 02:00:28 pm
Are Vienna Lagers produced in Europe? Is there a good example available in the US, nationally?

The traditional Vienna Lager recipe consists of only Vienna malt, and displays more toffee, bready flavors. Vienna Lager recipes today are likely to contain Munich malt, Pilsner malt, Vienna malt, and dextrin malt, and in certain situations, some brewers call for wheat in their Vienna Lager. Aside from malt, the Vienna Lager hops are German Noble hops and the Vienna Lager yeast is of course bottom fermenting Lager yeast. The Noble hops are used subtly and offer low hop bitterness.

https://craftbeerclub.com/beer-style/vienna-lager

The best Vienna Lager I've had is Ottakringer, brewed in Austria. Definitely worth seeking out.
My favorite continental malts are from Bestmalz in Germany, also worth seeking out. 🍺


I’m pretty sure the last 4 or 5 replies have also suggested Best

Is there a limit on how many recommendations a matter can get?
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on October 06, 2021, 02:47:39 pm
No. There is no stated limit.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: ttash on October 06, 2021, 04:10:36 pm
No. There is no stated limit.

No, I know. It was a rhetorical question for BeerfanOz. After he was the fourth one to recommend Bestmalz, apparently my recommendation was just one too many.
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on October 06, 2021, 08:10:31 pm
No. There is no stated limit.

No, I know. It was a rhetorical question for BeerfanOz. After he was the fourth one to recommend Bestmalz, apparently my recommendation was just one too many.

Got it!
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: BeerfanOz on October 07, 2021, 12:40:41 am
I got recommendation envy, sorry ! 🤣

I can’t get it locally so I just paid double the price of my locally available malt for some more Heidelberg malt. COVID has pushed freight cost way up. Worth it imho
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: Cliffs on October 08, 2021, 09:48:00 am
if you are making a copy of what people imagine negra modelo to be then sure.


when i think of vienna lager, as ive stated before (i think there was an entire many, many page thread on this already wasnt there?) i think of ottakringer vienna.

if i made that i would go 98% vienna, 2% carafa. noble hops to ~32 IBU.

^Ditto
Title: Re: Vienna Lager Grain
Post by: ynotbrusum on October 08, 2021, 10:27:36 am
I have a club member friend who wins regularly with his Vienna Lager (several ramp ups by commercial breweries, also):

5.5 gallon batch

5.5# Vienna
2# Red X
1.6# Pils
.125 # Carafa II

I will typically skip Red X and substitute 1# Munich and another extra pound of Vienna or just substitute 2 # Munich.