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General Category => Equipment and Software => Topic started by: ahgrafx on October 06, 2021, 05:18:28 pm

Title: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: ahgrafx on October 06, 2021, 05:18:28 pm
Hello everyone I'm wondering if you guys go through the process of pbw with brand new 5 gallon Italian glass carboys or just go straight to starsan?

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Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: Oiscout on October 06, 2021, 05:19:35 pm
Never hurts to give it a good cleaning! Takes a few minutes and may save your beer. They say you cant sanitize whats not clean


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Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: BrewBama on October 06, 2021, 05:31:51 pm
Hello everyone I'm wondering if you guys go through the process of pbw with brand new 5 gallon Italian glass carboys or just go straight to starsan?

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They say there’s two kinds of carboys: broken ones and those that will. Carboys will slice your arm, leg, or worse.  Use plastic or better yet, stainless.

Cheers!



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Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: RC on October 06, 2021, 06:08:13 pm
Personally, I would skip the cleaning and sanitizing of a new glass carboy, and instead travel back in time and not buy one in the first place. Using a glass carboy is like holding a bomb with a lit fuse.

If you must use it, it just needs a quick rinse before sanitizing. There is no crud in it since it's new, and so there is no need for soaking with a cleaner. They are very slippery when wet, especially when PBW is involved, so be extremely careful.
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: Big_Eight on October 06, 2021, 07:10:54 pm
PBW wouldn't hurt and then sanitize with Starsan. Be sure to get a good carboy carrier strap for safety.
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: fredthecat on October 06, 2021, 07:21:59 pm
i have used glass for the first 5 years of my brewing, switched to some glass, some non-better bottle brand PET carboys, and am now using glass again.

i felt like i was getting oxidation in the PET carboys. they were widemouth type.


i should try better bottle again. everyone here says they work fine.
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: Oiscout on October 06, 2021, 07:36:45 pm
PBW wouldn't hurt and then sanitize with Starsan. Be sure to get a good carboy carrier strap for safety.
I second the strap, a kettle with a valve is going to be your best friend when using carboys as well!


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Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: denny on October 07, 2021, 08:46:17 am
i have used glass for the first 5 years of my brewing, switched to some glass, some non-better bottle brand PET carboys, and am now using glass again.

i felt like i was getting oxidation in the PET carboys. they were widemouth type.


i should try better bottle again. everyone here says they work fine.

I think it might have been your imagination.
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: fredthecat on October 07, 2021, 10:47:03 am
i have used glass for the first 5 years of my brewing, switched to some glass, some non-better bottle brand PET carboys, and am now using glass again.

i felt like i was getting oxidation in the PET carboys. they were widemouth type.


i should try better bottle again. everyone here says they work fine.

I think it might have been your imagination.

full truth, it might have been other factors or poor practices, as i was in korea at a time when virtually no one had heard of homebrewing there (now it's popular). i was scrounging various materials for equipment.
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: ahgrafx on October 07, 2021, 04:37:48 pm
Never hurts to give it a good cleaning! Takes a few minutes and may save your beer. They say you cant sanitize whats not clean


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I have 7 coming and it's such a hassle

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Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: ahgrafx on October 07, 2021, 04:38:28 pm
Hello everyone I'm wondering if you guys go through the process of pbw with brand new 5 gallon Italian glass carboys or just go straight to starsan?

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk
They say there’s two kinds of carboys: broken ones and those that will. Carboys will slice your arm, leg, or worse.  Use plastic or better yet, stainless.

Cheers!



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Can't age in plastic

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Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: ahgrafx on October 07, 2021, 04:40:14 pm
Personally, I would skip the cleaning and sanitizing of a new glass carboy, and instead travel back in time and not buy one in the first place. Using a glass carboy is like holding a bomb with a lit fuse.

If you must use it, it just needs a quick rinse before sanitizing. There is no crud in it since it's new, and so there is no need for soaking with a cleaner. They are very slippery when wet, especially when PBW is involved, so be extremely careful.
I know that is why I want to skip the pbw, I have cut proof sleeve protectors and gloves I wear. You can't age in plastic I'm doing cider there is no other option

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Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: ahgrafx on October 07, 2021, 04:41:15 pm
i have used glass for the first 5 years of my brewing, switched to some glass, some non-better bottle brand PET carboys, and am now using glass again.

i felt like i was getting oxidation in the PET carboys. they were widemouth type.


i should try better bottle again. everyone here says they work fine.
That is what I say, you can't age in plastic it is permeable you will get oxidation.

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Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: ahgrafx on October 07, 2021, 04:41:56 pm
i have used glass for the first 5 years of my brewing, switched to some glass, some non-better bottle brand PET carboys, and am now using glass again.

i felt like i was getting oxidation in the PET carboys. they were widemouth type.


i should try better bottle again. everyone here says they work fine.

I think it might have been your imagination.
Nope they are permeable

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Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: denny on October 07, 2021, 04:43:36 pm
Personally, I would skip the cleaning and sanitizing of a new glass carboy, and instead travel back in time and not buy one in the first place. Using a glass carboy is like holding a bomb with a lit fuse.

If you must use it, it just needs a quick rinse before sanitizing. There is no crud in it since it's new, and so there is no need for soaking with a cleaner. They are very slippery when wet, especially when PBW is involved, so be extremely careful.
I know that is why I want to skip the pbw, I have cut proof sleeve protectors and gloves I wear. You can't age in plastic I'm doing cider there is no other option

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

Use LBW.  There are options for aging besides glass and plastic.  And I have made MANY batches of cider using buckets or Genesis fermenters with no problem.
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: RC on October 07, 2021, 05:00:04 pm
i have used glass for the first 5 years of my brewing, switched to some glass, some non-better bottle brand PET carboys, and am now using glass again.

i felt like i was getting oxidation in the PET carboys. they were widemouth type.


i should try better bottle again. everyone here says they work fine.

I think it might have been your imagination.
Nope they are permeable


I have aged beers in plastic for up to 6 months, and I can very confidently say, as can some of my fellow beer snobs who are judges and have tried these beers, that there was no hint of oxidative damage.

Plastic fermenters might have oxygen permeability that is measurable in a lab, I won't argue with that, but it is not enough to be measurable via the only equipment that matters to me, i.e. my own palate. AFAIC, reality continuous to be victorious over theory in this regard.
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: ahgrafx on October 07, 2021, 05:01:10 pm
The problem is not during fermentation because it is putting off CO2 Its in the aging after racking when there is no CO2



Personally, I would skip the cleaning and sanitizing of a new glass carboy, and instead travel back in time and not buy one in the first place. Using a glass carboy is like holding a bomb with a lit fuse.

If you must use it, it just needs a quick rinse before sanitizing. There is no crud in it since it's new, and so there is no need for soaking with a cleaner. They are very slippery when wet, especially when PBW is involved, so be extremely careful.
I know that is why I want to skip the pbw, I have cut proof sleeve protectors and gloves I wear. You can't age in plastic I'm doing cider there is no other option

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

Use LBW.  There are options for aging besides glass and plastic.  And I have made MANY batches of cider using buckets or Genesis fermenters with no problem.
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: ahgrafx on October 07, 2021, 05:03:07 pm
I feremting cider not beer.

i have used glass for the first 5 years of my brewing, switched to some glass, some non-better bottle brand PET carboys, and am now using glass again.

i felt like i was getting oxidation in the PET carboys. they were widemouth type.


i should try better bottle again. everyone here says they work fine.

I think it might have been your imagination.
Nope they are permeable


I have aged beers in plastic for up to 6 months, and I can very confidently say, as can some of my fellow beer snobs who are judges and have tried these beers, that there was no hint of oxidative damage.

Plastic fermenters might have oxygen permeability that is measurable in a lab, I won't argue with that, but it is not enough to be measurable via the only equipment that matters to me, i.e. my own palate. AFAIC, reality continuous to be victorious over theory in this regard.
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: denny on October 07, 2021, 05:15:42 pm
The problem is not during fermentation because it is putting off CO2 Its in the aging after racking when there is no CO2



Personally, I would skip the cleaning and sanitizing of a new glass carboy, and instead travel back in time and not buy one in the first place. Using a glass carboy is like holding a bomb with a lit fuse.

If you must use it, it just needs a quick rinse before sanitizing. There is no crud in it since it's new, and so there is no need for soaking with a cleaner. They are very slippery when wet, especially when PBW is involved, so be extremely careful.
I know that is why I want to skip the pbw, I have cut proof sleeve protectors and gloves I wear. You can't age in plastic I'm doing cider there is no other option

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

Use LBW.  There are options for aging besides glass and plastic.  And I have made MANY batches of cider using buckets or Genesis fermenters with no problem.

I understand.  I have been making cider for 25 years, most of it in plastic fermenter.  Have you actually had a problem you can trace to HDPE fermenters?
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: denny on October 07, 2021, 05:16:33 pm
The problem is not during fermentation because it is putting off CO2 Its in the aging after racking when there is no CO2



Personally, I would skip the cleaning and sanitizing of a new glass carboy, and instead travel back in time and not buy one in the first place. Using a glass carboy is like holding a bomb with a lit fuse.

If you must use it, it just needs a quick rinse before sanitizing. There is no crud in it since it's new, and so there is no need for soaking with a cleaner. They are very slippery when wet, especially when PBW is involved, so be extremely careful.
I know that is why I want to skip the pbw, I have cut proof sleeve protectors and gloves I wear. You can't age in plastic I'm doing cider there is no other option

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

Use LBW.  There are options for aging besides glass and plastic.  And I have made MANY batches of cider using buckets or Genesis fermenters with no problem.

I understand.  I have been making cider for 25 years, most of it in plastic fermenter.  Have you actually had a problem you can trace to HDPE fermenters?
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: denny on October 07, 2021, 05:18:02 pm
I feremting cider not beer.

i have used glass for the first 5 years of my brewing, switched to some glass, some non-better bottle brand PET carboys, and am now using glass again.

i felt like i was getting oxidation in the PET carboys. they were widemouth type.


i should try better bottle again. everyone here says they work fine.

I think it might have been your imagination.
Nope they are permeable


I have aged beers in plastic for up to 6 months, and I can very confidently say, as can some of my fellow beer snobs who are judges and have tried these beers, that there was no hint of oxidative damage.

Plastic fermenters might have oxygen permeability that is measurable in a lab, I won't argue with that, but it is not enough to be measurable via the only equipment that matters to me, i.e. my own palate. AFAIC, reality continuous to be victorious over theory in this regard.

No difference
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: ahgrafx on October 07, 2021, 05:25:42 pm
ive only aged in glass. i have only seen PETE carboys.

The problem is not during fermentation because it is putting off CO2 Its in the aging after racking when there is no CO2



Personally, I would skip the cleaning and sanitizing of a new glass carboy, and instead travel back in time and not buy one in the first place. Using a glass carboy is like holding a bomb with a lit fuse.

If you must use it, it just needs a quick rinse before sanitizing. There is no crud in it since it's new, and so there is no need for soaking with a cleaner. They are very slippery when wet, especially when PBW is involved, so be extremely careful.
I know that is why I want to skip the pbw, I have cut proof sleeve protectors and gloves I wear. You can't age in plastic I'm doing cider there is no other option

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

Use LBW.  There are options for aging besides glass and plastic.  And I have made MANY batches of cider using buckets or Genesis fermenters with no problem.

I understand.  I have been making cider for 25 years, most of it in plastic fermenter.  Have you actually had a problem you can trace to HDPE fermenters?
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: fredthecat on October 07, 2021, 07:07:53 pm
The problem is not during fermentation because it is putting off CO2 Its in the aging after racking when there is no CO2



Personally, I would skip the cleaning and sanitizing of a new glass carboy, and instead travel back in time and not buy one in the first place. Using a glass carboy is like holding a bomb with a lit fuse.

If you must use it, it just needs a quick rinse before sanitizing. There is no crud in it since it's new, and so there is no need for soaking with a cleaner. They are very slippery when wet, especially when PBW is involved, so be extremely careful.
I know that is why I want to skip the pbw, I have cut proof sleeve protectors and gloves I wear. You can't age in plastic I'm doing cider there is no other option

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

Use LBW.  There are options for aging besides glass and plastic.  And I have made MANY batches of cider using buckets or Genesis fermenters with no problem.

I understand.  I have been making cider for 25 years, most of it in plastic fermenter.  Have you actually had a problem you can trace to HDPE fermenters?

we should be specific. HDPE? better bottle is PET as were the ~4-6 gallon containers i used.
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: ynotbrusum on October 07, 2021, 07:16:47 pm
Doesn’t racking expose the cider to O2?  Or are you able to push with CO2 into a purged, sealed carboy? Oxidation is definitely a real concern, but I would think that use of kegs would be the better route, given the ease of purging.
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: joe_meadmaker on October 07, 2021, 07:54:31 pm
No doubt a PBW soak would be a good thorough cleaning for a new car boy, but I it might be a little overkill.  I usually give them a good shake with warm water and some easy clean (or something like that), a couple rinses, Star San, good to go.
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: denny on October 08, 2021, 11:25:07 am
Doesn’t racking expose the cider to O2?  Or are you able to push with CO2 into a purged, sealed carboy? Oxidation is definitely a real concern, but I would think that use of kegs would be the better route, given the ease of purging.

I haven't found oxidation to be nearly the concern for cider as it is with beer.  Have you had a different experience?
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: ynotbrusum on October 08, 2021, 12:54:15 pm
Just feedback from a club member who regularly wins cider categories in comps around here.  He had a cider get a high score in an early comp and a very low score in a subsequent comp a few weeks later - the later comp sheets mentioned oxidation problems and the entrant confirmed that he had racked out of the same sealed carboy, so in the process, he said he must have not cleared the headspace with CO2 after the first racking.  On his later tasting, he agreed with the evaluation.
Title: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: BrewBama on October 08, 2021, 09:15:18 pm
Interesting video. Why carboys fail: https://youtu.be/23P8k4AvCCw



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Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: fredthecat on October 09, 2021, 09:29:36 am
Interesting video. Why carboys fail: https://youtu.be/23P8k4AvCCw


very fast summary:

1. temperature shock
2. damage building up over time "microfractures"
3. carrying it by the neck with a stresspoint handle

#1 and #3 seem like no-brainers to me. #2 is probably from this nu-male struggling to carry a full carboy and bouncing it off the floor. lol. soy'll d that to ya.
Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: Oiscout on October 09, 2021, 09:30:14 am
Interesting video. Why carboys fail: https://youtu.be/23P8k4AvCCw


very fast summary:

1. temperature shock
2. damage building up over time "microfractures"
3. carrying it by the neck with a stresspoint handle

#1 and #3 seem like no-brainers to me. #2 is probably from this nu-male struggling to carry a full carboy and bouncing it off the floor. lol. soy'll d that to ya.
Lmao lmao


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Title: Re: Pbw brand new glass carboy?
Post by: Oiscout on October 09, 2021, 09:30:45 am
Can you even make seltzers in carboys bro


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