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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: Saccharomyces on October 12, 2021, 11:31:05 pm

Title: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Saccharomyces on October 12, 2021, 11:31:05 pm
Has anyone co-pitched US-05 and S-04?  I picked up a package of each while doing my domestic base malt run yesterday.   I wonder if the combination would have the attenuation level of US-05 and the flocculation of S-04?  I know how to keep S-04 in check, but I want a fruity beer with a dry finish and S-04 tends to poop out at 75% AA.  I want 80% AA.  That is not difficult with US-05.
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: dannyjed on October 12, 2021, 11:46:03 pm
I have never used both before at the same time. I never cared for S-04 and haven’t used it in over 10 years. I used S-05 much more, but not recently. I always got 80% or higher attenuation with 05. Not sure how it would work in tandem with O4, but sounds like an interesting experiment.


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Title: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: BrewBama on October 13, 2021, 12:07:10 am
I have been using Brutzyme to lower my FG.  I haven’t used it with -04 yet but I can vouch for it with Bry-97.

The MoreBeer pitch: “Amyloglucosidase, alpha amylase, and pullulanase enable the hydrolysis of starch and dextrins into fermentable sugars that yeast can ferment.”

It definitely dries the beer out. The results are crisp and clean. I am getting ~90%+AA which allows me to start lower so I get a low(er) carb beer. The Festbier I have on tap is ~8g carbs per 12 oz for a ~5% beer. My amber on deck is ~7g carbs in a 12 oz pour for a ~6% ABV beer.

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211013/b5af3f05ac2a5d834f0d959e91f8a005.jpg)

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Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: dmtaylor on October 13, 2021, 12:08:51 am
For my last several batches with S-04, they have attenuated to 78-80%.  This seems to be a different and much cleaner strain than it was historically.  Like the manufacturer pulled some kind of switcheroo on us.

So I don't think you'll get much benefit from S-04 actually in a co-pitch.  If anything, I find the new S-04 to be even cleaner and more lager-like than US-05, so it could be an even cleaner version of the beer than you might get from US-05 alone.
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Fire Rooster on October 14, 2021, 09:12:41 am
https://wallpapertag.com/wallpaper/middle/3/4/2/151254-gorgerous-just-do-it-wallpaper-1920x1080-for-meizu.jpg
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: denny on October 14, 2021, 02:26:03 pm
For my last several batches with S-04, they have attenuated to 78-80%.  This seems to be a different and much cleaner strain than it was historically.  Like the manufacturer pulled some kind of switcheroo on us.

So I don't think you'll get much benefit from S-04 actually in a co-pitch.  If anything, I find the new S-04 to be even cleaner and more lager-like than US-05, so it could be an even cleaner version of the beer than you might get from US-05 alone.

You keep saying "new" S04.  I'd like some confirmation from the company before I can accept that.
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: dmtaylor on October 14, 2021, 02:48:50 pm
For my last several batches with S-04, they have attenuated to 78-80%.  This seems to be a different and much cleaner strain than it was historically.  Like the manufacturer pulled some kind of switcheroo on us.

So I don't think you'll get much benefit from S-04 actually in a co-pitch.  If anything, I find the new S-04 to be even cleaner and more lager-like than US-05, so it could be an even cleaner version of the beer than you might get from US-05 alone.

You keep saying "new" S04.  I'd like some confirmation from the company before I can accept that.

Wouldn't we all like to know what's going on with this yeast.  All I know is, it performs differently than it did in the past.  And it's not just me; I've heard the same from others.
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: denny on October 14, 2021, 03:02:35 pm
For my last several batches with S-04, they have attenuated to 78-80%.  This seems to be a different and much cleaner strain than it was historically.  Like the manufacturer pulled some kind of switcheroo on us.

So I don't think you'll get much benefit from S-04 actually in a co-pitch.  If anything, I find the new S-04 to be even cleaner and more lager-like than US-05, so it could be an even cleaner version of the beer than you might get from US-05 alone.

You keep saying "new" S04.  I'd like some confirmation from the company before I can accept that.

Wouldn't we all like to know what's going on with this yeast.  All I know is, it performs differently than it did in the past.  And it's not just me; I've heard the same from others.

So why not contact Fermentis and ask them rather than speculation and rumor?
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Iliff Ave on October 14, 2021, 03:15:52 pm
S-04 has always performed reliably for me and I haven't noticed any change. I have always found it to be "clean" but I like to ferment it cool. For me it starts to get a bit funky at or above 67F or so.
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: BrewBama on October 14, 2021, 03:40:01 pm
+1. I never had an issue with -04 in my English styles. I’ve used it many times over the years and still use it. I have a Porter on tap now with -04. Very reliably consistent beers made with it over the years.  I haven’t noticed any change.

…but I brew beer to drink. I don’t really analyze the beer from year to year. I can’t remember what I had for supper last night much less what the nuances of three batches of beer in the past were.  I keep notes but my descriptions don’t go into that level of detail.



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Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: dmtaylor on October 14, 2021, 04:06:08 pm
For my last several batches with S-04, they have attenuated to 78-80%.  This seems to be a different and much cleaner strain than it was historically.  Like the manufacturer pulled some kind of switcheroo on us.

So I don't think you'll get much benefit from S-04 actually in a co-pitch.  If anything, I find the new S-04 to be even cleaner and more lager-like than US-05, so it could be an even cleaner version of the beer than you might get from US-05 alone.

You keep saying "new" S04.  I'd like some confirmation from the company before I can accept that.

Wouldn't we all like to know what's going on with this yeast.  All I know is, it performs differently than it did in the past.  And it's not just me; I've heard the same from others.

So why not contact Fermentis and ask them rather than speculation and rumor?

1) I don't care that much.
2) I don't speak French.
3) I'm lazy.
4) I don't trust yeast manufacturers to tell the truth anyway.
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: denny on October 14, 2021, 05:08:36 pm
For my last several batches with S-04, they have attenuated to 78-80%.  This seems to be a different and much cleaner strain than it was historically.  Like the manufacturer pulled some kind of switcheroo on us.

So I don't think you'll get much benefit from S-04 actually in a co-pitch.  If anything, I find the new S-04 to be even cleaner and more lager-like than US-05, so it could be an even cleaner version of the beer than you might get from US-05 alone.

You keep saying "new" S04.  I'd like some confirmation from the company before I can accept that.

Wouldn't we all like to know what's going on with this yeast.  All I know is, it performs differently than it did in the past.  And it's not just me; I've heard the same from others.

So why not contact Fermentis and ask them rather than speculation and rumor?

1) I don't care that much.
2) I don't speak French.
3) I'm lazy.
4) I don't trust yeast manufacturers to tell the truth anyway.

They have no reason to not tell you the truth.
Title: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: BrewBama on October 14, 2021, 06:56:39 pm

1) I don't care that much.
2) I don't speak French.
3) I'm lazy.
4) I don't trust yeast manufacturers to tell the truth anyway.




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Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Iliff Ave on October 14, 2021, 08:20:39 pm
Fermentis would probably tell you it’s a great English strain that makes really nice Belgian beers…
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Oiscout on October 14, 2021, 11:56:59 pm
For my last several batches with S-04, they have attenuated to 78-80%.  This seems to be a different and much cleaner strain than it was historically.  Like the manufacturer pulled some kind of switcheroo on us.

So I don't think you'll get much benefit from S-04 actually in a co-pitch.  If anything, I find the new S-04 to be even cleaner and more lager-like than US-05, so it could be an even cleaner version of the beer than you might get from US-05 alone.

You keep saying "new" S04.  I'd like some confirmation from the company before I can accept that.

Wouldn't we all like to know what's going on with this yeast.  All I know is, it performs differently than it did in the past.  And it's not just me; I've heard the same from others.

So why not contact Fermentis and ask them rather than speculation and rumor?

1) I don't care that much.
2) I don't speak French.
3) I'm lazy.
4) I don't trust yeast manufacturers to tell the truth anyway.
Lol


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Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: denny on October 15, 2021, 03:02:17 pm
Fermentis would probably tell you it’s a great English strain that makes really nice Belgian beers…

No, that's S33
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Iliff Ave on October 15, 2021, 03:20:53 pm
Just like T-58 is “ THE RIGHT PHENOLIC YEAST FOR ENGLISH & BELGIAN-STYLE ALES”.
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: fredthecat on October 15, 2021, 05:13:40 pm
Just like T-58 is “ THE RIGHT PHENOLIC YEAST FOR ENGLISH & BELGIAN-STYLE ALES”.

and WB06 = "weizen yeast".

i have still never tried WB06, but really want to do a duvel style beer with it just to see how it turns out.
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: dmtaylor on October 15, 2021, 09:01:37 pm
Just like T-58 is “ THE RIGHT PHENOLIC YEAST FOR ENGLISH & BELGIAN-STYLE ALES”.

and WB06 = "weizen yeast".

i have still never tried WB06, but really want to do a duvel style beer with it just to see how it turns out.

Don't ruin good wort with T-58 or WB-06.
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Oiscout on October 15, 2021, 09:04:34 pm
Or k-97


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Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: dmtaylor on October 15, 2021, 09:51:25 pm
Or k-97

+1
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Oiscout on October 15, 2021, 09:52:57 pm
The only thing I would pitch k-97 into is a lake


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Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Iliff Ave on October 15, 2021, 09:53:54 pm
The only thing I would pitch k-97 into is a lake


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I agree. Horrible yeast especially for being newer...
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: dmtaylor on October 15, 2021, 10:05:56 pm
Thanks guys, this reminds me, I really need to separate K-97 away from 1007 in my little yeast table.  I'll go do that now.  Even if they are somewhat related, 1007 is somehow great whereas K-97 is somehow very much NOT great.
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Saccharomyces on October 15, 2021, 10:59:41 pm
For what it is worth, I took the safe route and pitched BRY-97.  I cannot afford another dumper when brewing only 3 gallons at a time.
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Megary on October 16, 2021, 12:04:33 am
The only thing I would pitch k-97 into is a lake


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I agree. Horrible yeast especially for being newer...

This is interesting to me.  I used K-97 once and had a rough sulfur experience with it that never really cleared.  I assumed that I simply mishandled it because by all accounts this was a very popular yeast with many reporting good luck with it.  Well, I still could have mangled the fermentation (likely), but apparently not all are enjoying the fermentation properties of K-97.
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Oiscout on October 16, 2021, 12:06:17 am
I found it very bland, the beer wasnt even worth drinking through. Atleast for my tastes. I think somebody once said life is too short to drink bad beer


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Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Iliff Ave on October 16, 2021, 12:39:46 am
The only thing I would pitch k-97 into is a lake


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I agree. Horrible yeast especially for being newer...

This is interesting to me.  I used K-97 once and had a rough sulfur experience with it that never really cleared.  I assumed that I simply mishandled it because by all accounts this was a very popular yeast with many reporting good luck with it.  Well, I still could have mangled the fermentation (likely), but apparently not all are enjoying the fermentation properties of K-97.

I was very excited when that yeast came out thinking it would be a good dry yeast for kolsch. No go. I used it a few times and not sure what it would be good for.
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: BrewBama on October 16, 2021, 01:06:12 am
For what it is worth, I took the safe route and pitched BRY-97.  I cannot afford another dumper when brewing only 3 gallons at a time.
Tried and true.
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: fredthecat on October 16, 2021, 01:27:32 am
i am actually considering using k-97 again this brewseason. i tried it for the first time last year and i found it was pretty good at accentuating hop flavour. i basically made a pale ale out of it, but fermented it pretty cool, high 50s. my plan is to do that again but raise the temp to mid 60s so it finishes off well.

i found it was low on esters but again, accentuated hops and made them quite flavourful. it definitely takes a lot of effort to drop clear though.

thats one of the reasons i cant stand the "labeling" fermentis does. i imagine this beer as an actual NEIPA potential yeast, but its been labeled "kolsch/alt/german ale/lager substitute" etc. its just an organism
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Oiscout on October 16, 2021, 01:30:28 am
Kind of off topic, I found that most yeasts that are marketed as “Altbier” strains fall short. Its one of my favorite styles and believe it or mor WLP 002 has been kind to mine. That may be “out of style” but I found it worked best for my grainbill


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Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: fredthecat on October 16, 2021, 01:45:28 am
Kind of off topic, I found that most yeasts that are marketed as “Altbier” strains fall short. Its one of my favorite styles and believe it or mor WLP 002 has been kind to mine. That may be “out of style” but I found it worked best for my grainbill


i know what you mean, im contemplating WLP036 in the future.

what kind of attentuation range do you get for WLP002?
Title: Re: Co-pitching US-05 and S-04
Post by: Oiscout on October 16, 2021, 04:11:16 am
I would have to look at my notes but iirc it was fairly balanced with my perle hops and malt sweetness, I keep my alt biers at about 4.5 percent


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