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Other than Brewing => The Pub => Topic started by: Saccharomyces on October 15, 2021, 03:45:40 pm

Title: The Great Resignation
Post by: Saccharomyces on October 15, 2021, 03:45:40 pm
I know that the Great Resignation has been all over the news, but it hit home where I work recently.  We have had four people resign in the last three weeks.  That is more than 10% of our group.  We rarely have more than one resignation a year and it usually takes six months to a year to find a qualified replacement.  I knew that it was probably going to happen after the mandate to bring everyone back into the office came down (management had previously proposed a hybrid model). We had a couple of people from other groups choose to retire early instead of coming back to the office.  I am seriously considering retiring a early too.  I do not see the purpose of wasting two and half to three hours a day commuting to and from work.  It is a waste of fossil fuel and time.  I was more productive when I telecommuted.  Has anyone else experienced the Great Resignation where they work?
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: dmtaylor on October 15, 2021, 04:02:43 pm
We haven't seen many resignations where I work, or no more than normal.  And that's probably because my company pays us super well (it's a multi-billion dollar company with thousands of employees all over the world).  It's a good company, but... not without its faults......

However, we ARE losing people over time, through attrition & by design, because the company keeps throwing money at people aged 55+ to get them out the door quicker, plus at my site alone (of hundreds) they have announced they will be laying off ~100 people over the next couple years (currently have just over 500 people on site).  They claim it's to become more efficient and cost effective, but we keep telling them it will have the opposite effect due to major permanent loss of talent.  Damned greedy CEO who makes like $20 million per year wants to line his own pockets with more and more of our wages.  So here, any increase in "resignations", if it happens, will be more due to threats of layoffs and/or "enhanced retirement packages" than anything else.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: BrewBama on October 15, 2021, 07:26:17 pm
I was forced into retirement a few yrs ago. Not by nefarious corporate shenanigans but thru spouse health issues. I enjoy my life a lot more without the 9 to 5. Anyone thinking about retirement: I vouch for it. It’s a great way to live.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 15, 2021, 08:33:16 pm
I retired early, with a package, at 56. That was 13 years ago.

Life is short. Make the most of it.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Saccharomyces on October 16, 2021, 06:47:44 am
I originally planned to retire in 2023, so it will not be all that early.  I am extremely burned out.  A forty-year career in engineering will do that to a person.  I wish that possessed the engineering knowledge I have today when I was first starting out.   Pulling all-nighters debugging a circuit or software, so that we could meet a due date was not difficult back in those days.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Saccharomyces on October 16, 2021, 06:52:15 am
However, we ARE losing people over time, through attrition & by design, because the company keeps throwing money at people aged 55+ to get them out the door quicker, plus at my site alone (of hundreds) they have announced they will be laying off ~100 people over the next couple years (currently have just over 500 people on site).  They claim it's to become more efficient and cost effective, but we keep telling them it will have the opposite effect due to major permanent loss of talent.  Damned greedy CEO who makes like $20 million per year wants to line his own pockets with more and more of our wages.  So here, any increase in "resignations", if it happens, will be more due to threats of layoffs and/or "enhanced retirement packages" than anything else.

Trust me, if the Great Resignation visited my place of work, it will visit any workplace where the work can be performed remotely, but management has a butt-in-seat mindset.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: MDixon on October 16, 2021, 07:29:48 am
I'm out in 5. Sooner if I could access 401K. Current plan is to work until the end of December 2026.

We've not see the resignations, but are having an extremely difficult time finding new employees despite a starting wage of over 25 bucks/hr. What's odd is the current employees aren't interested in overtime. That doesn't compute for me. Let's say an employee is making 30/hr. Overtime is 45/hr and doubletime is 60/hr. I'd take that action all day everyday if I could get it.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: denny on October 16, 2021, 08:07:16 am
I retired early, with a package, at 56. That was 13 years ago.

Life is short. Make the most of it.

THIS.  I d9dnt retire as early as Jeff, but I walked away from both my job and business when I was 62.  Not everyone is so lucky, but if you can retire, do it.  Life is too short to not be happy.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: dmtaylor on October 16, 2021, 08:43:56 am
I'm out in 5. Sooner if I could access 401K. Current plan is to work until the end of December 2026.

I'm considering invoking the 72(t) Rule.  It lets you take out 401(k) or IRA money at any age that you want, without any penalty tax, as long as you promise to keep withdrawing substantially equal periodic payments (SEPPs) for at least 5 years or until you hit age 59.5, whichever is later.  I am currently 47 and looking to retire at about age 55.

There is also a special Rule of 55, with a few extra restrictions, which is why I might prefer 72(t) rule.  They call 72(t) a "last resort", but for me, in my personal situation, I think it will be the first resort.

I figure I've got 8 years left to go, either way, to have enough to retire most comfortably.  IF we get a bull market in the next 8 years (a BIG IF), I could afford to retire even earlier by age 53-54.  I would just love that.

Some super basic info, Google these rules deeper to learn more:

https://wiserinvestor.com/what-is-the-rule-of-72t-and-55/
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Kevin on October 16, 2021, 08:45:19 am
I overheard a conversation at my gym about 4 years ago. The typical conversations that occur on a Friday after 5pm... thank God its Friday etc. One guy pipes up and says something like; if only 2 days a week are what you are living for you need to change how you are living the other 5. That stuck with me and within months I had an investment friend check over our finances and assured me I could retire early. It's the best decision other than marrying my wife and having children I have ever made.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: erockrph on October 16, 2021, 08:55:42 am
I haven't experienced a sudden mass-resignation in my field, but we have gradually gotten to that point over the past many years through attrition. Healthcare has taken a big hit (hospitals in particular) since the ACA went into place. De facto workforce reductions are commonplace by simply not replacing positions as they are vacated.

In addition, pharmacists in particular are feeling a big pinch. Before the real estate bubble burst in the late 00's, chain pharmacies were opening new stores at an exponential rate - faster than colleges could graduate new pharmacists. This led to a glut of new colleges offering pharmacy programs (a 70% increase over the last 20 years or so). The big chains stopped opening new stores about 10-15 years ago and moved to expansion by taking over local and regional pharmacy chains. This led to a net closure of stores as redundant locations get closed after acquisitions.

At the same time, the new colleges starting graduating new pharmacists at an accelerating rate. These new pharmacists often don't possess the skills that new grads once had. Pharmacy programs were highly competitive 20-30 years ago, but the newer schools accept anyone with a 4 year BS, and put them through an accelerated Pharm D program run by inexperienced professors. For comparison, my alma mater has a 94% pass rate on the pharmacy boards, while the two newer schools in New England have pass rates of 72% and 57%. So we have a glut of lower-quality grads competing for fewer jobs. Salaries for new grads are about 2/3 what it was compared to 12 years ago, and even the better candidates sometimes need a year or two to find a job after they graduate.

I enjoy what I do, and it is fulfilling work, but I got into this field at the perfect time. I am lucky to be working in a hospital now rather than retail, even though we are constantly being forced to do more and more with less and less help. I would never let my kid go into pharmacy now. It is just too much school for not enough pay, if you can even find work.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: narvin on October 16, 2021, 08:58:29 am

Trust me, if the Great Resignation visited my place of work, it will visit any workplace where the work can be performed remotely, but management has a butt-in-seat mindset.

Totally agree with this.  We are not forcing people back to the office (for software/internet work), and we still have people leaving.  Tech is hiring remotely and the market is extremely competitive right now, and everyone in management learned what we already knew: counting butts in the seat is a piss poor way to manage.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: erockrph on October 16, 2021, 09:10:33 am
I'm out in 5. Sooner if I could access 401K. Current plan is to work until the end of December 2026.

I'm considering invoking the 72(t) Rule.  It lets you take out 401(k) or IRA money at any age that you want, without any penalty tax, as long as you promise to keep withdrawing substantially equal periodic payments (SEPPs) for at least 5 years or until you hit age 59.5, whichever is later.  I am currently 47 and looking to retire at about age 55.

There is also a special Rule of 55, with a few extra restrictions, which is why I might prefer 72(t) rule.  They call 72(t) a "last resort", but for me, in my personal situation, I think it will be the first resort.

I figure I've got 8 years left to go, either way, to have enough to retire most comfortably.  IF we get a bull market in the next 8 years (a BIG IF), I could afford to retire even earlier by age 53-54.  I would just love that.

Some super basic info, Google these rules deeper to learn more:

https://wiserinvestor.com/what-is-the-rule-of-72t-and-55/

Thanks for sharing that. The best piece of advice I was ever given when I was a student was to max out my 401(k) as soon as I graduated, and forget it's there. This way you never even factor it in when building a budget, and you get the longest window for growth. 59.5 is getting close enough to see, but I'm in a similar place where I could probably afford to retire even earlier if the market outstrips inflation by a large enough amount over the next 10 years. I plan on working as long as I can as long as my job is still fulfilling, but hitting that mark where I can say "screw this, I'm retiring" at any time will make it a lot easier to keep going.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Fire Rooster on October 16, 2021, 09:46:08 am
I retired early, with a package, at 56. That was 13 years ago.

Life is short. Make the most of it.

Agreed, if your fortunate enough to do it.
I am grateful to be one of them.
Retired at 50, that was also about 13 years ago.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Wilbur on October 16, 2021, 02:47:49 pm
My company keeps pushing back the return to work day. They've been really great about flexibility in choosing hours, but not always remote work. I think it's around to stay though, our division had a survey and over 95% said they wanted to be working remote at least 2 days a week. I haven't heard a lot of resignations in my area, but the production and distribution area is interviewing like crazy. They're even offering engineers overtime to help out.

That being said, I've seen a lot of "doing more with less" like erockph has mentioned. Replacing an opening at a much lower level while expecting the same work, not filling spots. It sounds like every team is about 1/2 the size it was 15 years ago, and it seems like every engineer is pitching in to help marketing, supply chain, pricing, etc. I can't imagine it lasting.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: MDixon on October 16, 2021, 05:36:52 pm
The best piece of advice I was ever given when I was a student was to max out my 401(k) as soon as I graduated, and forget it's there. This way you never even factor it in when building a budget, and you get the longest window for growth. 59.5 is getting close enough to see, but I'm in a similar place where I could probably afford to retire even earlier if the market outstrips inflation by a large enough amount over the next 10 years. I plan on working as long as I can as long as my job is still fulfilling, but hitting that mark where I can say "screw this, I'm retiring" at any time will make it a lot easier to keep going.

Be careful with maxing out unless some of it is going in as Roth. With compounding interest you may have potential to be in new/unfamiliar tax brackets when you reach the age of RMD. I always thought I would be in a situation of less taxation when I retired, but with my wife's pension and SS benefits it's not going to be possible. Also you can convert to Roth, BUT you must have the cash for taxes in hand. Any Roth conversion is on the sidelines for 5 years.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Saccharomyces on October 16, 2021, 05:53:24 pm
Totally agree with this.  We are not forcing people back to the office (for software/internet work), and we still have people leaving.  Tech is hiring remotely and the market is extremely competitive right now, and everyone in management learned what we already knew: counting butts in the seat is a piss poor way to manage.

We are in the same market.  Things are going to get worse before they get better.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Saccharomyces on October 16, 2021, 05:59:57 pm
Be careful with maxing out unless some of it is going in as Roth. With compounding interest you may have potential to be in new/unfamiliar tax brackets when you reach the age of RMD. I always thought I would be in a situation of less taxation when I retired, but with my wife's pension and SS benefits it's not going to be possible. Also you can convert to Roth, BUT you must have the cash for taxes in hand. Any Roth conversion is on the sidelines for 5 years.

I live in a high tax state and I will actually bring home more while making less because my state does not SS and only partially taxes pension income.  That is when I realized that I could retire early and eat the penalty on my pension.  I worked in the private sector before taking my current gig, so I have always put money away in 401K, even if it was just a small amount.  I am surprised by how many of my colleagues do not put anything away in 401K, even though my organization has a 401K plan in addition to our modest pension plan.  That is foolish.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: MDixon on October 16, 2021, 06:32:07 pm
Not to jack the thread, but it's compounding interest which can a problem, a good problem, but nonetheless a problem. So if you're making 15% the money will double in 4.8 years. If you're making 6% the money will double in 12 years.

So someone who decides to retire at 59 1/2 has 12.5 years until they hit the age of RMD at 72. So the portfolio will more than double for most people before they hit the age of RMD. Of course funds are likely to be withdrawn so the portfolio will decrease.

To be in the 12% tax bracket, a married couple will need to stay below $80k. Let's say they both are drawing SS at 20k each. That leaves 40k they can withdraw or convert and stay in a low federal tax bracket. If one or both get a pension, let's say 20k, then only 20k can be withdrawn per year to stay in the 12% tax bracket. (I'm of course ignoring any deductions for this oversimplified example.)

Let's run another example. A husband and wife have been heavily contributing to 401k and are in their 50s eyeballing retirement. Most of their money is in traditional 401k, not Roth. Let's make them the same age, 50 with a million combined in retirement. That's 22 years until RMD. If they are averaging 10% per year, then in 22 years 1 million will become 8 million. (It will double 3X in 22 years at 10%)  The RMD at 72 is roughly 401kfunds/27. That means if they haven't done anything at age 72 they will be required to withdraw $300k which is the 24% tax bracket and not the 12% they anticipated.

Here's a real world example of compounding interest. I know someone who left $2,500 with an employer's 401k in 1998 because the amount was small and their new employer didn't have a 401k at the time. They never put another dime in it, but they did/do monitor the investments and made changes over time. Today, 23 years later, that account has $85k in it.

Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Wilbur on October 16, 2021, 06:59:40 pm
If your company matches it's hard to justify not putting something in your 401k.

Sad to hear all the "buts on seats", just a sign of poor management.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: hopfenundmalz on October 16, 2021, 07:24:09 pm
Not to jack the thread, but it's compounding interest which can a problem, a good problem, but nonetheless a problem. So if you're making 15% the money will double in 4.8 years. If you're making 6% the money will double in 12 years.

So someone who decides to retire at 59 1/2 has 12.5 years until they hit the age of RMD at 72. So the portfolio will more than double for most people before they hit the age of RMD. Of course funds are likely to be withdrawn so the portfolio will decrease.

To be in the 12% tax bracket, a married couple will need to stay below $80k. Let's say they both are drawing SS at 20k each. That leaves 40k they can withdraw or convert and stay in a low federal tax bracket. If one or both get a pension, let's say 20k, then only 20k can be withdrawn per year to stay in the 12% tax bracket. (I'm of course ignoring any deductions for this oversimplified example.)

Let's run another example. A husband and wife have been heavily contributing to 401k and are in their 50s eyeballing retirement. Most of their money is in traditional 401k, not Roth. Let's make them the same age, 50 with a million combined in retirement. That's 22 years until RMD. If they are averaging 10% per year, then in 22 years 1 million will become 8 million. (It will double 3X in 22 years at 10%)  The RMD at 72 is roughly 401kfunds/27. That means if they haven't done anything at age 72 they will be required to withdraw $300k which is the 24% tax bracket and not the 12% they anticipated.

Here's a real world example of compounding interest. I know someone who left $2,500 with an employer's 401k in 1998 because the amount was small and their new employer didn't have a 401k at the time. They never put another dime in it, but they did/do monitor the investments and made changes over time. Today, 23 years later, that account has $85k in it.
The taxes were deferred, and will be paid on withdrawl. I knew that all along.

Going into a higher tax bracket isn't as bad as it sounds, as you only pay that rate on what exceeds the thresold for that bracket.

I had a wake up call recently, and am now pulling from all of my accounts. I said a couple of those were for later. Well, now it is later.

Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: erockrph on October 16, 2021, 08:59:40 pm


The taxes were deferred, and will be paid on withdrawl. I knew that all along.

Going into a higher tax bracket isn't as bad as it sounds, as you only pay that rate on what exceeds the thresold for that bracket.

Right, plus you are reducing your taxable income now when investing in tax-deferred retirement accounts. There are cases to be made for Roth vs tax deferred, but you generally have a lot of living between the saving and the withdrawing. Who knows what your tax and income situation will be in between. The key is just to save as much as you can whenever you can.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: fredthecat on October 16, 2021, 09:50:30 pm
your perspectives on life planning are very interesting to me. my life path was p different from most peoples, i dont know how ill plan retirement anymore than i have.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Saccharomyces on October 17, 2021, 06:55:08 am
MDixon, I do not see any of what you have written as a problem. Taxes are a part of life.  If you do not want to be in a high tax bracket, do not save as much, invest more conservatively, or invest after tax money in long-term securities.  Plus, a 10% return on investment year after year is unrealistic.  Sure, 10% year after year is easily possible during a Bull market, but I have experienced years where even earning 3% on my portfolio took careful management.   If I have so much money invested that I have to pull out $300K and pay 24% above a threshold, I consider that a blessing, not a curse.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: MDixon on October 17, 2021, 07:38:36 am
MDixon, I do not see any of what you have written as a problem. Taxes are a part of life.  If you do not want to be in a high tax bracket, do not save as much, invest more conservatively, or invest after tax money in long-term securities.  Plus, a 10% return on investment year after year is unrealistic.  Sure, 10% year after year is easily possible during a Bull market, but I have experienced years where even earning 3% on my portfolio took careful management.   If I have so much money invested that I have to pull out $300K and pay 24% above a threshold, I consider that a blessing, not a curse.

Agree, it's not a bad problem to have. It also was a quick example. Everyone should spend a few minutes and understand where they might be at the time of RMDs. The takeaway should be to convert to Roth as possible in a lower tax bracket to avoid potentially pushing into a higher tax bracket later in life. Even better to invest in Roth at that lower tax bracket.

As far as not averaging 10%, the historic average for the market is 10%. The 30 year average is almost 11%. If your investments aren't aligned with a goal to beat the market every year before you retire then you have a very conservative investment strategy. I had been running a 12% 10 year average return for many many years and was dragging along some turkey funds for many years. Currently my 10 year average is over 14% due to the market growth the past few years.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: dmtaylor on October 17, 2021, 08:24:58 am
The taxes were deferred, and will be paid on withdrawl. I knew that all along.

Going into a higher tax bracket isn't as bad as it sounds, as you only pay that rate on what exceeds the thresold for that bracket.

This is what I've been thinking since the beginning.  When I was young and single in the 1990s (currently I'm 47), I began contributing the maximum to my 401(k) which at the time was 16%, with company matching another 5% or whatever it was.  One of the smartest things I ever did.

So now if I need to withdraw $300K or more upon hitting age 72?  Hell, in today's dollars that's like my current salary, or in the right ballpark anyway.

I might not be perfect but somehow I think I'll be okay without Rothing anything.  I know Roth advocates really get deep into this stuff, but I don't see it making a huge difference.  I'll be plenty comfortable either way.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: reverseapachemaster on October 17, 2021, 11:09:02 am
Not seeing a lot of early retirement in my field; however, I worked in finance 2007-2010 when all of the financial markets were hitting their peak and subsequent collapse so I've seen this before. A lot of companies have and will continue to offer early retirement incentives to move out older, higher compensated employees which will cause attrition. People approaching retirement are also going to drop out as their hit retirement savings goals or real estate properties are generating the capital gains or rental income to hit their retirement income needs. A not insignificant number of people in 2008-2009 failed to account for investment risk and when the economy went the other direction they found themselves overleveraged and depleted.

I don't pretend to have a crystal ball or assume that the past repeats itself perfectly but if you work off of a model of assuming the same kind of bull and bust cycles can be predicted by the degree of irresponsibility and fraud openly present in the market this feels a lot more like 2005 than 2008 right before the big slide. It's hard to say what happened in the past is repeating itself because the Dow right now is more than twice its peak in 2008.

 
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: reverseapachemaster on October 17, 2021, 11:19:16 am
I'm out in 5. Sooner if I could access 401K. Current plan is to work until the end of December 2026.

I'm considering invoking the 72(t) Rule.  It lets you take out 401(k) or IRA money at any age that you want, without any penalty tax, as long as you promise to keep withdrawing substantially equal periodic payments (SEPPs) for at least 5 years or until you hit age 59.5, whichever is later.  I am currently 47 and looking to retire at about age 55.

There is also a special Rule of 55, with a few extra restrictions, which is why I might prefer 72(t) rule.  They call 72(t) a "last resort", but for me, in my personal situation, I think it will be the first resort.

I figure I've got 8 years left to go, either way, to have enough to retire most comfortably.  IF we get a bull market in the next 8 years (a BIG IF), I could afford to retire even earlier by age 53-54.  I would just love that.

Some super basic info, Google these rules deeper to learn more:

https://wiserinvestor.com/what-is-the-rule-of-72t-and-55/

72t is a complicated, highly technical rule with exhaustively specific rules for every exception to the penalty except turning 59.5 (which is specific to 59 years and 183 days to the day) and it interplays with other regulations and statutes. For example, the rule of 55 only applies to certain employer-sponsored retirement plans and only to the plan associated with the job you left at age 55 or older. If you roll those funds into any other account it loses the benefit of that particular rule. Additionally, for SEPPs you need to see if, due to your age, the SEPP calculations will even allow you to pull out the funds you need yearly for your needs. You also need to see if your employer's plan will permit you to disburse funds in that manner (most don't) and you may need to roll the funds into an IRA to establish that payment plan.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: majorvices on October 18, 2021, 07:02:45 am
Huh??? I thought the way to strike it rich and pad your retirement was to invest in a brewery???
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: denny on October 18, 2021, 07:38:35 am
Huh??? I thought the way to strike it rich and pad your retirement was to invest in a brewery???

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Steve Ruch on October 18, 2021, 03:49:31 pm
Huh??? I thought the way to strike it rich and pad your retirement was to invest in a brewery???
Only when you're bought out by Inbev.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Saccharomyces on October 24, 2021, 11:40:12 am
Well, I announced my retirement date this week.  It is still a few months away, but I feels weird to know that I will not have to drag myself into the office anymore.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: denny on October 24, 2021, 12:42:47 pm
Well, I announced my retirement date this week.  It is still a few months away, but I feels weird to know that I will not have to drag myself into the office anymore.

Congratulations, buddy!
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: majorvices on October 25, 2021, 02:08:58 am
Well, I announced my retirement date this week.  It is still a few months away, but I feels weird to know that I will not have to drag myself into the office anymore.

Congratulations! I have a pension coming up in 10-12 years. But I honestly love my work and doubt I'll ever be fully retired.It would be nice to be partially retired and still be paid, however. ;)
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: erockrph on October 25, 2021, 07:46:43 am
Well, I announced my retirement date this week.  It is still a few months away, but I feels weird to know that I will not have to drag myself into the office anymore.
Nice! Now you can spend all your time running a yeast bank  ;D
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Saccharomyces on October 25, 2021, 03:08:27 pm
Nice! Now you can spend all your time running a yeast bank  ;D

While I am not writing it off, I do not see another yeast bank in my future.   I am going to spend the first few months finding a new normal.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: jeffy on October 25, 2021, 03:13:51 pm
I'm trying to extricate myself from the business I started in 1984.  It's tricky.
I hope to find a "new normal" as well.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: denny on October 25, 2021, 03:46:33 pm
I'm trying to extricate myself from the business I started in 1984.  It's tricky.
I hope to find a "new normal" as well.

Good luck!  Hope you find a way to make it work.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: tommymorris on October 25, 2021, 07:01:40 pm
Good luck, guys.

I think we are all witnessing history. Covid-19 led to the great resignation and who knows what else. Crazy times.  But, hopefully a lot of good will come.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: MNWayne on October 28, 2021, 09:47:30 am
I retired about 6 months ago and am busier than ever.  I don't know how I got things done before retirement with work always getting in the way.  If you can, retire, if you can't, save hard for it.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: nateo on November 10, 2021, 01:04:38 pm
I've quit two jobs so far during covid. I'm making 50% more money and get 100% more PTO than I did two years ago. This is the best time to quit a job in decades. People complain about "job hoppers" but those numbers speak for themselves. A lot of employers have relied on inertia to keep people around when they pay below-market wages and it's finally catching up with them.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: fredthecat on November 10, 2021, 01:15:12 pm
I've quit two jobs so far during covid. I'm making 50% more money and get 100% more PTO than I did two years ago. This is the best time to quit a job in decades. People complain about "job hoppers" but those numbers speak for themselves. A lot of employers have relied on inertia to keep people around when they pay below-market wages and it's finally catching up with them.

i was a long term, serial job hopper for better salary/hours/etc, longest i worked at a place was about 2 years. however it is awful on a resume for a lot of fields. ymmv
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Visor on November 11, 2021, 02:03:41 pm
Huh??? I thought the way to strike it rich and pad your retirement was to invest in a brewery???

   You have it bassckwards, you strike it rich so you can open a brewery.
   I've always tried to avoid putting all my eggs in one basket, you never know how life will play out for you. After paying off my house in '89 I made sure I maxed out my Roth and HSA every year, later when I went to work for an outfit that offered a 401K I maxed out the employer contribution every year. After exiting my business 6 1/2 years ago, with no W-2 wages I could only contribute to the HSA. By that time the ACA had driven my health insurance premiums up by over 300% so I said the hell with it and took the subsidy. To qualify though you must show a minimum income, which I didn't have. The 401K then proved invaluable as I could roll just enough of it over to a Roth every year to qualify. In 5 years with my previous employer I contributed just < $10,000 into the account, at it's peak a year ago it was worth >$105,000. The crazy thing is that I was the only employee participating in the 401K, all the other guys had myriad excuses/reasons for not taking part, most said they couldn't afford to. Funny thing is those same guys could afford to spent $5 or $10 for lunch every day while I was eating my cold sammich, kind of the ant and the grasshopper thing I guess. For that much $ in savings though I can stick with cold sammys.
   As for not being able to touch 401K money for 5 years after rolling them over, that's not entirely true, I just sold some yesterday that had been in the Roth for less than 5 years in order to pay off my building. I will have to pay some tax on the value increase since rolling, but at this point my tax bill is so negligible I won't worry about it. As with all things IRS, there is no one single answer to a general question.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Saccharomyces on November 24, 2021, 04:02:00 pm
What is amazing is that after 42 years of software and hardware engineering, I will be free to engage in the passions of my life.  I enlisted in the U.S. Navy straight out of high school in 1979.  I attended basic training in Great Lakes, Illinois followed by Naval computer school in California.  I was originally trained as a technician, but I went on to earning bachelor of science and master of science degrees in computer science and engineering.  I do not regret the path I took because it prepared me with bench skills that few engineers who go to directly to college after high school possess after they graduate from college.  College was more about filling in the "why" holes that my "how to" technician training provided.  I personally believe that is why the American educational system is failing so many students.  Kids, especially male kids, need to learn by doing.  In doing, they will form quite a list of "why" lists.  Formal education is about "why."  Practical experience is about "how."  Engineering as a discipline is about theory + practice.  Brewing is about theory + practice.  A lot of new brewers try to equate brewing with cooking, but it is closer to baking.  Baking involves considerably more science than cooking. Brewers who lack fundamentals are limited brewers.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: fredthecat on November 24, 2021, 08:44:50 pm
What is amazing is that after 42 years of software and hardware engineering, I will be free to engage in the passions of my life.  I enlisted in the U.S. Navy straight out of high school in 1979.  I attended basic training in Great Lakes, Illinois followed by Naval computer school in California.  I was originally trained as a technician, but I went on to earning bachelor of science and master of science degrees in computer science and engineering.  I do not regret the path I took because it prepared me with bench skills that few engineers who go to directly to college after high school possess after they graduate from college.  College was more about filling in the "why" holes that my "how to" technician training provided.  I personally believe that is why the American educational system is failing so many students.  Kids, especially male kids, need to learn by doing.  In doing, they will form quite a list of "why" lists.  Formal education is about "why."  Practical experience is about "how."  Engineering as a discipline is about theory + practice.  Brewing is about theory + practice.  A lot of new brewers try to equate brewing with cooking, but it is closer to baking.  Baking involves considerably more science than cooking. Brewers who lack fundamentals are limited brewers.

I do not have personal experience with the European systems, but in particular in Germany, students are pretty forcefully streamed at a young age into what levels of education are appropriate for them. This may not be true, but its what I believe I have heard. Essentially by age 15 it is very clear if you are going to be working in a hands-on/trade job or if you will be matriculating into a gymnasium and continued higher education. In Canada at least when I was in school there was zero attempt to really fit kids into practical paths for their life.

Not every kid should attend university or even college. That's why we were and still somewhat are severely lacking good blue collar jobs and skilled tradespeople. Considering the extention of human lifespan in the west, especially ability to work into late 60s and 70s easily, we should really re-evaluate the entire birth-school-highschool-college-"job" life path that is set out. A good one could be essentially birth-school-2 years of highschool-mandatory government service for a year or two (police/govt worker/military) - "tier 1 job" that is fairly physical, taking advantage of their youth. after 5 or 10 years of this type of work they may consider if they want to learn more, continue their education or not. if so they will study the equivalent of REAL, critical and challenging college (not 18-24 year old daycare with participation medals), and move further into understanding the world and how things work.

just some thoughts.



Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: nateo on November 25, 2021, 07:52:04 am
The German system is interesting. It definitely railroads kids but it's not impossible to change tracks later in life. Technikers (trade school people) generally get paid more than engineers who has went to college. The best engineers are the technikers who went back to college for an advanced degree.

Their definition of trade school is a lot broader than ours. For instance, one of my friends is a banker, which is a "trade school" track there. His program was basically part time internship and part time American-style high school. There were a few years of full time internship at the end but by the time you're 20 you've got a good job and a skill if you stick with it.

The flip side is it's very difficult to change careers and industries. The culture is very conservative in that regard vs America where lots of people work in different industries and kinds of roles.

People love to speak ill of liberal arts degrees but as someone with soft and hard degrees and with American and German education I think there's a lot to be said for American creativity, critical thinking and communication. People with liberal arts degrees tend to have more of those skills, and those are the hardest skills to teach on the job in my experience.

Germany used to do compulsory healthcare or military service for young people but they phased it out 10 years ago in an attempt to professionalize their armed forces.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: chumley on December 02, 2021, 04:39:15 pm
I plan on retiring as soon as I can get knee surgery done on both my knees under my employer's insurance plan. I started getting medical exams in late 2019 and preparing for the first operation, then the whole COVID thing put those plans on hold. Seems like it's not a good time getting elective surgery when ICUs are full of COVID patients. Plus, I can still hike up the mountain and hunt, so it's not a big deal.

Regarding the work force: I work for a consulting engineering firm (civil, environmental, transportation, industrial). What I've seen is a lot of mid-level staff move on to other firms, as my employer has been giving most everyone basically cost-of-living (2-3%) annual raises. So we have a lot of junior staff and a lot of senior staff. This is not good.

I still enjoy working on my technical work, but in the last couple of years, in order to improve profitability, my firm has adopted project management guidance from the Project Management Institute as requirements for managing projects, including having the project managers (self included) become certified Project Management Professionals. This is the biggest scam I have ever seen. Someone is getting rich on this malarkey.
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: fredthecat on December 02, 2021, 07:08:19 pm

I still enjoy working on my technical work, but in the last couple of years, in order to improve profitability, my firm has adopted project management guidance from the Project Management Institute as requirements for managing projects, including having the project managers (self included) become certified Project Management Professionals. This is the biggest scam I have ever seen. Someone is getting rich on this malarkey.

i just took a course on project management, i thought it was pretty useful.

i do not have the practical experience that you have though, what are your thoughts on project management?
Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: BrewBama on December 02, 2021, 07:54:42 pm

... This is the biggest scam I have ever seen. Someone is getting rich on this malarkey.

I agree. I come from the PM world and saw PMI coming on the scene. The Gov’t of course has their own PM certification requirements which is also malarkey.  …and I agree someone is getting rich …in both cases.



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Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Wilbur on December 03, 2021, 11:49:16 am
After the latest contact negotiation with the union, Deere elected to give all their employees 8% raises. Seems like a good idea with all the turnover on the news.

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Title: Re: The Great Resignation
Post by: Slowbrew on December 03, 2021, 03:40:34 pm
After the latest contact negotiation with the union, Deere elected to give all their employees 8% raises. Seems like a good idea with all the turnover on the news.

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Deere gave quite a bit more than that in other compensation benefits.  The last time a contract was negotiated the new, young, workers got shafted.  This contract basically brought back all the things the young folks got screwed out of the last time.  It's good to see a big company finally realize they don't exist without the workers.

Full disclosure: I do not and have never worked for Deere.  I'm from Iowa and my son lives in one of the cities Deere has a plant in.  I couldn't get him to shot about it.

Paul