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General Category => General Homebrew Discussion => Topic started by: Kevin on November 27, 2021, 11:22:27 am

Title: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: Kevin on November 27, 2021, 11:22:27 am
I'm not sure how secret this was supposed to be but news was slipped on Twitter by someone known and  respected that new BJCP guidelines are coming.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: allenhuerta on November 27, 2021, 11:26:07 am
Not secret at all lol they are working on a small update. Nothing like the changed from 2008-2015. But again, these aren't rules, just general guidelines for what to expect in a beer/to be judged against. Not for marketing purposes

(A disclaimer I give everyone when they want to fight with me over what the BJCP says)

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Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: Kevin on November 27, 2021, 11:33:30 am
Believe me I am no fan of the BJCP guidelines. There has been more disinformation about certain beer styles published by those bozos (no offense Gordon but you know its true) than anywhere else. But according to the tweet these changes are much better than the 2015 update.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: dmtaylor on November 27, 2021, 12:54:20 pm
Hope these turn out better than 2015.  I recall that in 2013/2014, on the BJCP forum, all styles were open for discussion.  So, we discussed every style in detail... and then none of our comments were incorporated anyway.  Not sure whether I like that method better, or the new method where they just spring the new guidelines upon us like a surprise with zero opportunity for open discussion.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: Daddylawman on November 28, 2021, 08:36:54 am
Just one man's opinion, but they need to figure out a way to be more nimble.  Guidelines should cover what folks are brewing.  I'm not suggesting abandoning traditional styles, but if folks are brewing newer styles there need to be judging guidelines.  BJCP should reflect the members' brewing habits, not determine them
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: narvin on November 28, 2021, 08:48:36 am
Just one man's opinion, but they need to figure out a way to be more nimble.  Guidelines should cover what folks are brewing.  I'm not suggesting abandoning traditional styles, but if folks are brewing newer styles there need to be judging guidelines.  BJCP should reflect the members' brewing habits, not determine them

Perhaps create a "Specialty Fad Beer" category that can follow  the beer of the minute.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: denny on November 28, 2021, 08:49:22 am
Just one man's opinion, but they need to figure out a way to be more nimble.  Guidelines should cover what folks are brewing.  I'm not suggesting abandoning traditional styles, but if folks are brewing newer styles there need to be judging guidelines.  BJCP should reflect the members' brewing habits, not determine them

Perhaps create a "Specialty Fad Beer" category that can follow  the beer of the minute.

 ;D
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on November 28, 2021, 09:53:55 am
Just one man's opinion, but they need to figure out a way to be more nimble.  Guidelines should cover what folks are brewing.  I'm not suggesting abandoning traditional styles, but if folks are brewing newer styles there need to be judging guidelines.  BJCP should reflect the members' brewing habits, not determine them

Perhaps create a "Specialty Fad Beer" category that can follow  the beer of the minute.

Ok…let’s cut them some slack. Let us at least allow them the “Flavor Of The Day”, or “Beer Du Jure”.

Brewers are free to brew whatever they wish, with complete disregard for traditional norms or guidelines.

In competitions, the style guidelines reflect historic traditions in beer brewing.

Let's please keep tradition alive.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: mainebrewer on November 28, 2021, 02:40:33 pm
Just one man's opinion, but they need to figure out a way to be more nimble.  Guidelines should cover what folks are brewing.  I'm not suggesting abandoning traditional styles, but if folks are brewing newer styles there need to be judging guidelines.  BJCP should reflect the members' brewing habits, not determine them

Perhaps create a "Specialty Fad Beer" category that can follow  the beer of the minute.

Great idea, the entrant can write the "fad" beer characteristics, which will, of course, describe the beer they are entering. Automatic winner!

I don't know what the new tweaks to the guidelines will be, but as a BJCP judge, there is no need for more "variations on a theme" beer categories.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: chinaski on November 28, 2021, 03:07:37 pm
Just one man's opinion, but they need to figure out a way to be more nimble.  Guidelines should cover what folks are brewing.  I'm not suggesting abandoning traditional styles, but if folks are brewing newer styles there need to be judging guidelines.  BJCP should reflect the members' brewing habits, not determine them
Keep in mind the amount of volunteer hours that go into creating and updating the guidelines.  Think about how difficult that is and how you might approach the job of determining if a selection of particular beers (e.g. dry IPA) merits inclusion or not.  There are enough categories to encompass what is out there and what homebrewers can brew well, IMHO.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: Kevin on November 29, 2021, 10:17:07 am
Just one man's opinion, but they need to figure out a way to be more nimble.  Guidelines should cover what folks are brewing.  I'm not suggesting abandoning traditional styles, but if folks are brewing newer styles there need to be judging guidelines.  BJCP should reflect the members' brewing habits, not determine them

Perhaps create a "Specialty Fad Beer" category that can follow  the beer of the minute.

Ok…let’s cut them some slack. Let us at least allow them the “Flavor Of The Day”, or “Beer Du Jure”.

Brewers are free to brew whatever they wish, with complete disregard for traditional norms or guidelines.

In competitions, the style guidelines reflect historic traditions in beer brewing.

Let's please keep tradition alive.

Oh really? I don't see a category for a strong, hoppy and pale colored British Mild. Historically that is how they were first brewed.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: nateo on November 30, 2021, 06:29:17 am
A lot of BJCP styles, especially the British ones, are ahistorical at best and imaginary at worst. People also mistake the map for the land and don't appreciate the diversity in the real world. As a descriptive tool I think it has some utility but it shouldn't be taken prescriptively.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: ynotbrusum on November 30, 2021, 07:54:21 am
Actually, much can be said for the comments section of each style in the guidelines - it often mentions historical differences and the fact that the guidelines deviate from historical beers in specific ways and sometimes for specific reasons.  I only feel constrained to review and follow the guidelines when I am brewing for competitions or judging in them.  Anymore that is maybe twice a year at most (last year only once - but it was a gold medal, so I was pretty happy for that event to be held, despite the COVID situation and odd manner of judging remotely that resulted).
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: mainebrewer on December 01, 2021, 04:02:24 am

[/quote]

Oh really? I don't see a category for a strong, hoppy and pale colored British Mild. Historically that is how they were first brewed.
[/quote]

This beer can be entered in Cat 27 Historical Beer
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: BeerfanOz on December 01, 2021, 11:31:21 am
Awesome, now I can finally enter my hemp banana spaghetti marinara white stout sour in the correct category
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: tommymorris on December 01, 2021, 11:59:21 am
I wonder what category Lil Nas X entered Old Town Road in?

Food, drink, music, movies, plays, literature are all subjective art forms that change with time. Categorizing them is a near impossible task and I am sure a thankless endeavor.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: BrewBama on December 01, 2021, 12:19:11 pm
Awesome, now I can finally enter my hemp banana spaghetti marinara white stout sour in the correct category




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Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: fredthecat on December 01, 2021, 04:20:54 pm


Ok…let’s cut them some slack. Let us at least allow them the “Flavor Of The Day”, or “Beer Du (sic) Jure”.

Brewers are free to brew whatever they wish, with complete disregard for traditional norms or guidelines.


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/de%20jure

is this about the reinheitsgebot in france?
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: chinaski on December 01, 2021, 06:02:32 pm
I wonder what category Lil Nas X entered Old Town Road in?

Food, drink, music, movies, plays, literature are all subjective art forms that change with time. Categorizing them is a near impossible task and I am sure a thankless endeavor.
So true!  So interesting that we always want to categorize them despite this.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: goose on December 02, 2021, 08:39:51 am
Remember, the Style Guidelines are just that "guidelines".  You can diverge a bit from them if you feel it makes the beer better.  You can also add comments in the Brewer's Specifics section that will guide the judges in competition when they evaluate the beer.

I said this before, I entered an American Brown Ale in a recent competition that I brewed to a higher ABV and higher IBU's to balance it.  The beer won gold and I got my highest ever score with a 43.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: allenhuerta on December 04, 2021, 09:35:13 am
Remember, the Style Guidelines are just that "guidelines".  You can diverge a bit from them if you feel it makes the beer better.  You can also add comments in the Brewer's Specifics section that will guide the judges in competition when they evaluate the beer.

I said this before, I entered an American Brown Ale in a recent competition that I brewed to a higher ABV and higher IBU's to balance it.  The beer won gold and I got my highest ever score with a 43.
We say it again and again, but no one cares

I'd add you can diverge from them completely. No one cares unless you are being judged to a guideline.

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Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: nateo on December 04, 2021, 09:54:48 am
I said this before, I entered an American Brown Ale in a recent competition that I brewed to a higher ABV and higher IBU's to balance it.  The beer won gold and I got my highest ever score with a 43.

That's why I don't do competitions anymore. I've entered great beers and gotten dinged for being "out of style." I've never figured out how to be "out of style" in just the right way to impress the judges.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: Kevin on December 05, 2021, 07:59:05 am
And then there are those brewers who may be newer to the hobby of just less knowledgeable who take the guidelines as gospel.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: denny on December 05, 2021, 08:38:05 am
And then there are those brewers who may be newer to the hobby of just less knowledgeable who take the guidelines as gospel.

They'll learn, just as we all do
Title: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: BrewBama on December 05, 2021, 02:32:20 pm
And then there are those brewers who may be newer to the hobby of just less knowledgeable who take the guidelines as gospel.

They'll learn, just as we all do
Then they should read this in the guidelines:

 “The following maxims express our original intent, and are designed to limit misuse not prevent the guidelines from being adopted for new uses:

1. The BJCP Style Guidelines are guidelines not specifications. Take those words at face value, or their plain meaning.  Guidelines are meant to describe general characteristics of the most common examples, and serve as an aid for judging; they are not meant to be rigorously-applied specifications that are used to punish slightly unusual examples. They are suggestions, not hard limits. …”


Bier bewusst genießen

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Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: mabrungard on December 05, 2021, 04:43:31 pm
It bothers me a bit that recommendations made when the current guidelines were created, weren’t incorporated. But I do believe that the guidelines provide a viable and useful description of what a brewer and a drinker might use to set their expectations.

I recognize that there is often latitude in a style’s specifications and variations in resulting beers might differ, but there does need to be some definition of what a style is supposed to be like and if it can trend toward other styles. But it also needs to say what that difference is.

I don’t think that adding new and emerging styles is bad either. They should be cataloged just like the other styles.
Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: Wilbur on December 06, 2021, 07:20:38 am
There's a few Q&A articles they wrote that they should probably just add to the end of the guidelines.

I'd be interested to read if BJCP style guidelines actually changed anything (style wise). Seems like things are more steered by commercial beer, where it only matters if it sells and they have their own categories anyway.

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Title: Re: New BJCP Guidelines
Post by: dmtaylor on December 08, 2021, 04:54:00 am
Ron Pattinson has started to review the new guidelines and thinks they are a step up, at least with respect to non-American styles.  This sounds promising to me.

https://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2021/12/judging-begins.html