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Other than Brewing => The Pub => Topic started by: ryang on September 15, 2010, 07:36:16 PM

Title: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: ryang on September 15, 2010, 07:36:16 PM
I've been to a couple brewpubs that serve the bigguns right next to their house brews.  At both places, their house beer sucked and more people were drinking coors light than anything else.  If it were my brewpub, I don't think I could take myself seriously if I served my beers and coors light on the same tower.  Why the extra expense of making your own brews?

Anyone else been to places like this?  What justification is there in doing this?

Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Hokerer on September 15, 2010, 07:41:33 PM
Unless you only associate with like-minded (from a beer perspective anyways) folks, it makes it easier for you to go out with a group of friends.  If all aren't interested in the good stuff, they've at least got an alternative.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: hamiltont on September 15, 2010, 07:43:24 PM
Makes sense to me...  When groups of people gather at a pub, not everyone is into the craft beer.  One our local pubs has had PBR on tap & some others.  Actually PBR is a refreshing change once in a while IMO. :o
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mikey on September 15, 2010, 07:56:48 PM
Another poll with "No Pants". I guess I'm slow because I don't get it.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: tubercle on September 15, 2010, 08:14:48 PM
...more people were drinking coors light than anything else. 

  Most pubs have an outside spigot for water. Same thing only cheaper.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: capozzoli on September 15, 2010, 08:19:43 PM
Whatever makes the market happy. And if it yields a good mark up push it. Hey, being in business has nothing to do with art.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: beersk on September 15, 2010, 08:28:48 PM
I've been to brewpubs like this and I just don't get it.  It makes me angry actually.  Why would a brewpub do that?  Most brewpubs make a light lager of some sort.  Why wouldn't you just tell the person, "Well, we do have a light lager that we brew, here's a sample."  Instead of giving up and immediately pouring them BMC.  I can see having those beers in bottles, but having taps for those beers right next to your delicious craft beer is an insult to the craft beer movement.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 15, 2010, 08:34:40 PM
Have to agree - I just don't think a Brew Pub should serve BMC. Now, a fancy beer bar is a different story. But a Brew Pub - no way. I can certainly see having guest taps for other craft brews. But never BMC.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: tschmidlin on September 15, 2010, 08:37:41 PM
No, I can't take them seriously.  I'm all for bringing in what the customers want (light lager), but you don't have to go with BMC.  Bring in some nice German lagers or even American made ones and offer them that.  I would offer them Bitburger before I put Budweiser on tap.  I've even got some people hooked on Boddington's.  There are better beers available.

But if they insist, they can buy cans of BMC, warm, for $20 each.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mark G on September 15, 2010, 08:46:49 PM
When a group of craft beer drinkers walk in with a couple of their BMC buddies, there's no reason to not cater to that customer too. Eventually one of them will try one of your brews, and if you're brewing some decent stuff... You may have another convert from the dark side. The last thing you want is them to walk out at the end of the night thinking "there's nothing here for me, I'm not coming back." Do you think that mixed group of BMC/craft beer drinkers will come back the next time they're all out together?
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: capozzoli on September 15, 2010, 08:53:28 PM
Right, and ultimately the market decides. Its what you are selling that makes the cut. if you dont think that way you brewpub wont be open for long.

Most brewpubs dont have to worry about it. But suppose you are downtown, where the market is mixed. The idea is to sell, A LOT.

Ive seen these people drink one ESA and then go to their old stand by. To us it is pee but they like why not sell it to them.

What will it hurt.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: hamiltont on September 15, 2010, 08:57:48 PM
It's all about serving the customer what he wants, not what you think he wants. Survival in the retail business demands a constant gain of market share. If you're not gaining you're losing.  In this case serving BMC is a safe bet to help increase market share IMO.  Cheers!!
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: ryang on September 15, 2010, 08:58:39 PM
Hey, being in business has nothing to do with art.

In a business where it's a mix of science and art, I think it does have to do with the art (at least to some degree)...
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: capozzoli on September 15, 2010, 09:06:23 PM
True, and your product should be your art. But the idea is to sell a lot. Why would you let your personal ego integrety get in the way of that.

Sell a product and then find as many companion products to sell along with it that you can.  if its yucky beer that sells a lot so what, at least it is selling.You may find yourself in a market that does not demand the kind of beer you brew, or rather need to sell to turn a profit. You have to find a way to sell more to keep it going.  
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: nicneufeld on September 15, 2010, 09:07:39 PM
Hey, being in business has nothing to do with art.

Amen to that!  Our ideas about whether or not "its right" to have a commercial lager in a brewpub are interesting, but completely beside the point for a brewpub owner and entrepreneur.  If they have the approach that the purity of their art can't share a taproom with BMC, then they can take that approach.  They may find it harder to compete, depending on the market they are in, but some of them will do just fine.  But to be a successful business owner necessitates a lot of compromise and pragmatism, so I wouldn't give a brewpub owner grief over serving Coors, any more than I'd get upset over them serving Cocacola instead of freshly made, on premise artisanal soda made with raw cane sugar and organic flavorings and naturally carbonated with CO2 from the fermentors.

Actually I'd say the case could be made that regardless of the typical beer geek's opinion of it, BMC represents a much more natural product than, say, Diet Coke!  :D
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 15, 2010, 09:08:00 PM
I wouldn't have it if it was my choice, however if there was a significant percentage of sales that was needed to keep the lights on I would serve it.  Let's face it,  we do what we have to do sometimes in order to make ends meet.  Don't get me wrong...if I could avoid it, I certainly would without a doubt.

So I guess my choice is ...no pants.   ;D  :P  ;)
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: tschmidlin on September 15, 2010, 09:16:39 PM
I understand the "give them what they want" mindset, but if you have BMC then that's all they'll drink.  If you have something like BMC then they can try that and try something else too.  That's why you bring in real German lagers and some good craft lagers, to cater to those folks.  I worked in a bar that carried mostly BMC with some craft bees, but when a Curs drinker comes in he doesn't want anything but his Curs.  It doesn't matter what else you have.  So thinking that eventually they'll try the house brews just doesn't hold up in my experience.

If you want to cater to the BMC crowd that's cool, I just don't think it fits well with a brewpub.  If you're going carry BMC just so you can sell what sells, you should also stop selling what doesn't sell - namely the schwaggy house brew.

Now maybe this is just because of where I live, because here it is harder to find places that carry BMC than those that don't, and I don't think any of the places I frequent carry BMC.  Here there's just no need to carry BMC to draw a crowd.  Our local crappy beer is called Redhook. :)
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: ryang on September 15, 2010, 09:22:45 PM
That's why you bring in real German lagers and some good craft lagers, to cater to those folks. 

Gotta have the gateway drugs...

I don't think BMC is a good gateway.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 15, 2010, 09:23:44 PM
I wouldn't have it if it was my choice, however if it was a significant percentage of sales that was needed to keep the lights on I would serve it.  Let's face it,  we do what we have to do sometimes in order to make ends meet.  Don't get me wrong...if I could avoid it, I certainly would without a doubt.

So I guess my choice is ...no pants.   ;D  :P  ;)

If you are a brew pub you need good food to keep the lights on. The beer only matters a certain percent. I agree with tom, you brew  Kolsch or a Pils or Helles or bring these beers in. You don't put a BMC tap in a brew pub. Its like having McDonald's hamburgers for sale in an upscale restaurant. Dumb.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 15, 2010, 09:26:16 PM
If you are a brew pub you need good food to keep the lights on.

Keith...we can definitely agree on this.  Good food is essential IMO.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: capozzoli on September 15, 2010, 09:36:25 PM
I wouldn't have it if it was my choice, however if it was a significant percentage of sales that was needed to keep the lights on I would serve it.  Let's face it,  we do what we have to do sometimes in order to make ends meet.  Don't get me wrong...if I could avoid it, I certainly would without a doubt.

So I guess my choice is ...no pants.   ;D  :P  ;)

If you are a brew pub you need good food to keep the lights on. The beer only matters a certain percent. I agree with tom, you brew  Kolsch or a Pils or Helles or bring these beers in. You don't put a BMC tap in a brew pub. Its like having McDonald's hamburgers for sale in an upscale restaurant. Dumb.

I see what you are saying. But the idea is to sell a volume. Depending on the type of place dont expect the food sales to float the bill. Very little mark up there. If you have a liquor license, you want to sell beverages, lots of them. That is where your mark up will be.

Also the general population wants these beers, they want cheap beers. Selling them in volume is how you make money.

Maybe your place wont need that kind of thing. but most larger operations will need the income from selling these beers. If the brew pub that has BMC on tap has a good house brew why would I not take them seriously?
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: tschmidlin on September 15, 2010, 09:41:48 PM
Also the general population wants these beers, they want cheap beers. Selling them in volume is how you make money.
Yeah, but if I wanted a dive bar I'd buy a dive bar.

Maybe your place wont need that kind of thing. but most larger operations will need the income from selling these beers. If the brew pub that has BMC on tap has a good house brew why would I not take them seriously?
Well, in the original post the house beers were all crap . . .
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mikey on September 15, 2010, 09:43:08 PM
I would definitely serve BMC in my brewpub. It’s not about being uppity, it’s about the bottom line and I would want to appeal to as many people as I could. This is an easy way to do that.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 15, 2010, 09:46:27 PM
Blues: First noff, I'm not opening a pub. Its a distributing brewery. Second, if they can't brew an American Wheat or a Kolsch to bring in the BMC crown then they probably aren't the best brewers anyway.  ;) This is from a man who has lived for the last 17 years in beer hell and who is suddenly starting to see a beer renaissance start to blossom - you don't promote craft beer by selling BMC. And if you are a struggling craft brewery the worse thing you can do is promote BMC.

The more you promote Craft Beer, the more people will accept it. Promoting BMC is literally shooting yourself in the foot.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 15, 2010, 09:46:33 PM
One thing to keep in mind is that the craft brewing sales share in 2009 was 4.3% by volume and 6.9% by dollars. In other words keeping BMC on tap won't hurt the bottom line.  ;)
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mikey on September 15, 2010, 09:52:43 PM
To me, being in the business to promote only your type of beer, is kind of like opening a steak house in India.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 15, 2010, 09:57:15 PM
Blues: First noff, I'm not opening a pub. Its a distributing brewery. Second, if they can't brew an American Wheat or a Kolsch to bring in the BMC crown then they probably aren't the best brewers anyway.  ;) This is from a man who has lived for the last 17 years in beer hell and who is suddenly starting to see a beer renaissance start to blossom - you don't promote craft beer by selling BMC. And if you are a struggling craft brewery the worse thing you can do is promote BMC.

The more you promote Craft Beer, the more people will accept it. Promoting BMC is literally shooting yourself in the foot.

I can certainly respect your view.  I certainly have no intention of promoting BMC. I am not a fan. I haven't surveyed the brewpub market, so I can't say one way or the other how the market handles this issue but it seems like the market may benefit by the sales of BMC.  
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 15, 2010, 10:01:28 PM
Its not about only promoting your "type" of beer - its about promoting craft beer. Craft brewers team up with other craft brewers. My worse fear is not that someone opens a craft brewery in my town - it's that they open a craft brewery and it sucks.

There's a place for BMC and I certainly don't want to see them go away. All I want to do is see craft beer succeed. And, like Tom said, most people who only drink BMC will not want to risk trying anything else. But if you have a good wait staff that sells them a well made kolsch - well, you just opened the gate a little and let a new craft beer drinker in. Next thing you know he's drinking Arrogant Bastard.  ;)

Now, like I said, a good beer bar like the Flying Saucer or someplace with 25 or 50 or more taps. Sure, I totally support them having BMC on tap there. But they are promoting beer - not just craft beer.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 15, 2010, 10:04:25 PM
Perhaps there is a fine line between promoting craft beer and promoting your brewpub that sells BMC.  :-\
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mikey on September 15, 2010, 10:06:51 PM
Quote
Its not about only promoting your "type" of beer - its about promoting craft beer. 

Yeah, but your beer IS craft beer. So it's the same thing.

If all you're interested in doing is "promoting" craft beer, then make more donations to the AHA.  ;D
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: tschmidlin on September 15, 2010, 10:09:46 PM
One thing to keep in mind is that the craft brewing sales share in 2009 was 4.3% by volume and 6.9% by dollars. In other words keeping BMC on tap won't hurt the bottom line.  ;)
It sure as hell will when you're only making 50 cents a pint on the BMC but are making $2 per pint on the house brews.  Unless you'll sell 4x as many BMC, which is certainly possible in some places.  Those would be the kinds of places where you might want to rethink opening a brewpub and just open a bar instead.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 15, 2010, 10:13:01 PM
One thing to keep in mind is that the craft brewing sales share in 2009 was 4.3% by volume and 6.9% by dollars. In other words keeping BMC on tap won't hurt the bottom line.  ;)
It sure as hell will when you're only making 50 cents a pint on the BMC but are making $2 per pint on the house brews.  Unless you'll sell 4x as many BMC, which is certainly possible in some places.  Those would be the kinds of places where you might want to rethink opening a brewpub and just open a bar instead.

This is true.  The BMC's are out to get every last tenth of a percent of the craft beer industry sales.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 15, 2010, 10:13:56 PM
There are plenty of stories about small towns breweries who introduced craft beer to the BMC drinking masses and turned them onto good beer. If they had opened and sold BMC along with their beers they would have hardly sold a drop of their own beer. The trick is to lure them into drinking something that is not what they are used to. That's what I mean by promoting craft beer. Really - IMO - it has everything to do with the bottom line.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: tubercle on September 15, 2010, 10:16:08 PM
There are plenty of stories about small towns breweries who introduced craft beer to the BMC drinking masses and turned them onto good beer. If they had opened and sold BMC along with their beers they would have hardly sold a drop of their own beer. The trick is to lure them into drinking something that is not what they are used to. That's what I mean by promoting craft beer. Really - IMO - it has everything to do with the bottom line.

http://www.rjrockers.com/verify.asp

Shameless exploit of hometown brewery.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mikey on September 15, 2010, 10:30:18 PM
Quote
The trick is to lure them...

I wonder how many times I've experienced that in my lifetime. However, it did work well for PT Barnum.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: capozzoli on September 15, 2010, 11:34:26 PM
Also the general population wants these beers, they want cheap beers. Selling them in volume is how you make money.
Yeah, but if I wanted a dive bar I'd buy a dive bar.

Maybe your place wont need that kind of thing. but most larger operations will need the income from selling these beers. If the brew pub that has BMC on tap has a good house brew why would I not take them seriously?
Well, in the original post the house beers were all crap . . .

If the house beers were all crap, I would politely tell the bartender that I was not enjoying my beer. If I was really thirsty I would then ask to have it replaced by an ice cold mug of Miller (a real insult) and then I would leave never to return.  I wouldn't take the place seriously but because their beer was bad not because of the other beers on tap.

 
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 15, 2010, 11:41:47 PM
Agree on a certain level. Its not like I would not patronage a place just because they serve Bud. I'm just saying I don;t think it serves their best interest. but, if the house beer is crap .... well. Sure, makes sense to serve Bud.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 16, 2010, 12:38:31 AM
I looked into the local Brewpub here in Delaware.

2005 Great American Beer Festival Winner
Large Brewpub and Large Brewpub Brewer
IRON HILL RESTAURANT & BREWERY #3, Wilmington, DE
MARK EDELSON

I called them to find out if they served BMC beer...and boy did I feel embarrassed asking that question... :-[
and there answer was..."NO we don't serve anything other than the beer we brew on site".

There's a strategy behind this logic besides the obvious.  They want to win you over and convert you into being an advocate of their beer.  This is a strategy employed by many different producers in an effort to brand their products.  Iron Hill Brewery appears to be the most successful as they have multiple locations (eight to be exact) and have built a strong membership of mug club members and repeat guests. Not to mention they brew really good beer.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: The Professor on September 16, 2010, 12:49:59 AM
Have to agree - I just don't think a Brew Pub should serve BMC. Now, a fancy beer bar is a different story. But a Brew Pub - no way. I can certainly see having guest taps for other craft brews. But never BMC.

Absolutely right.   
In my travels I've been in a number of brewpubs and restaurant breweries that did this,  and seeing a Bud or Coors tap at a brewpub is to me a 'red flag' ...if they feel the need to do that to stay in business, then their own beer is probably pretty bad (and that was indeed usually the case).

Any brewer worth his salt should be able to produce a clean, crisp, and lighter style lager or ale as part of their offerings.
That is, after all, what most beer drinkers want...and there's nothing wrong with that.  They should simply offer a house made beer that would aim to satisfy the crowd that feels the usual "craft" style brew has "too much flavor"  (I once heard someone in a bar describe "craft" beer in exactly that manner   :o). 

If a brewpub wih BMC taps is  selling more Bud and Coors than their house-made beer, they would probably do better just to sell off the brewing equipment anyway.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: hopfenundmalz on September 16, 2010, 01:02:08 AM
When the NHC was in Denver a few years ago, I got a laugh at the Falling Rock Taphouse.  The Rockies were playing the Yankees, so there were more than a few fans from NYC.  The bartenders would point out the large list of craft beer for $5 a pint.  The fans would ask for a Bud.  The bartender would pull a bottle out of a cooler and say "$8 please".  They would pay without hesitation.

I don't know if that would work at most Brewpubs.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: MrNate on September 16, 2010, 01:18:38 AM
I always said that if I ever open a brewpub, I'll serve BMC in bottles. You ask for it and you really, really need your fix, man, I got ya covered. But I'm not advertising.

Of course I say that now. Red ink has a way of swaying opinions.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on September 16, 2010, 01:42:00 AM
If you are a brew pub you need good food to keep the lights on.

Keith...we can definitely agree on this.  Good food is essential IMO.

Average brewpub brings about 11% revenue from beer.
So brewing your own beer will set you apart in the market but food will make you money.

Just to put it into perspective.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: capozzoli on September 16, 2010, 01:55:07 AM
IF you have the right chef.  ;D

My experience with the restaurant business is not good. I had great location, write ups in the paper and all. Still very hard to make money. Lots of overhead.  But I know others that do really well with food that isnt half as good.  

So you guys wouldnt give a brewpub a chance if they had BMC on tap?

FTR If I had a brew pub it would have only my beer on tap. I would sell liquor and wine to if a had that license, and the food would be awesome.

Im not gonna  do it though. When those places go down, they go down hard.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: MrNate on September 16, 2010, 02:13:40 AM
I'd do it if I hit the powerball. Set myself a little budget, have a huge party when it opened, and a bigger one when the money ran out.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: nicneufeld on September 16, 2010, 02:24:00 AM
The maxim that has stuck with me, is:

How do you make a small fortune in brewing?

Start with a large fortune.   ;D
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 16, 2010, 11:45:59 AM
The bartenders would point out the large list of craft beer for $5 a pint.  The fans would ask for a Bud.  The bartender would pull a bottle out of a cooler and say "$8 please".  They would pay without hesitation.

Bwahaha! Too damn funny!


So you guys wouldnt give a brewpub a chance if they had BMC on tap?
 

That's not at all what I said. Not speaking for anyone else.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: beersk on September 16, 2010, 02:29:51 PM
I would definitely serve BMC in my brewpub. It’s not about being uppity, it’s about the bottom line and I would want to appeal to as many people as I could. This is an easy way to do that.
This, children, is called Selling Out.  Keep your eyes on the prize, kids $$$
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mikey on September 16, 2010, 02:40:04 PM
I'm not a beer snob. I have ordered Budweiser when good craft beer is available. Sure goes down nice on a hot summer day.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 16, 2010, 03:36:34 PM
I'm not a beer snob. I have ordered Budweiser when good craft beer is available. Sure goes down nice on a hot summer day.

Sure, I don't mind a bud every now and then. But I can honestly say I never have, and most certainly never will, walk into a brewpub to try their selection of Bud products. If its a hot day I might try their kolsch. ;)
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: akr71 on September 16, 2010, 04:15:33 PM
Unless you only associate with like-minded (from a beer perspective anyways) folks, it makes it easier for you to go out with a group of friends.  If all aren't interested in the good stuff, they've at least got an alternative.

Because they could buy a bottle of fizzy yellow water - why waste a precious tap.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: tschmidlin on September 16, 2010, 04:18:48 PM
I'm not a beer snob. I have ordered Budweiser when good craft beer is available. Sure goes down nice on a hot summer day.

Sure, I don't mind a bud every now and then. But I can honestly say I never have, and most certainly never will, walk into a brewpub to try their selection of Bud products. If its a hot day I might try their kolsch. ;)
Yeah, when it's 105F on the Deschutes I'm reaching in the cooler for a Coors Banquet and not a Gordon.  Never a Bud though, that stuff is terrible, Busch is better among the AB products IMO.  Next time though, it will be Bitburger now that I can get it in cans from my local bottle shop.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 16, 2010, 04:32:39 PM
When I go to a brewpub I like to sample their beers. I like to take in the atmosphere, try some of the chef's specialties and sample what I hope to be good microbrewed beer.  I never drink the BMC's at a brewpub. Not that I don't like them but I'm more interested in craft beer.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: dbeechum on September 16, 2010, 04:55:37 PM
Here in Pasadena, there's a successful little chain (about to have a third location) of beer bars that specialize in being eclectic and having a bad ass selection of different beers. Lucky's has such an amazing selection of Belgians for instance that Dave, the owner and speaker in this story, was knighted by the Brussels' Brewer's Guild.

One day I was in the pub and pointed at a tap of Stella that he had on and made fun of it. Dave stopped what he was doing and emphatically said: "That one tap pays for all of these others" (He has about 40).

Now granted that's a pub and not a brewpub, but Dave has managed to thrive in what has been a beer desert by that rule. I think for anyone in the beer business, I cannot begrudge them using the big brewers as means to siphon off the cash they need to make the rest of our happiness possible.

Besides, at some point, some one drinking a big lager product in one of these places is going to have to get curious and try something. If they don't after multiple exposures get curious, then they're never going to anyway.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 16, 2010, 05:02:39 PM
I cannot begrudge them using the big brewers as means to siphon off the cash they need to make the rest of our happiness possible.

Besides, at some point, some one drinking a big lager product in one of these places is going to have to get curious and try something. If they don't after multiple exposures get curious, then they're never going to anyway.

This was a point I made earlier in the thread.  Using the big boys to your advantage for survival purposes is a viable option for brewpub owners.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 16, 2010, 05:15:33 PM
Now granted that's a pub and not a brewpub, .

Exactly - and thats a big difference right there.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: dbeechum on September 16, 2010, 05:36:49 PM
Now granted that's a pub and not a brewpub, .

Exactly - and thats a big difference right there.

See and I don't feel it really is that big of a difference between a pub and a brew pub. Yes, a brewpub wants to push it's own products, but ultimately they're both looking to do two things - stay in business and educate about beer. (And by pub I'm obviously thinking of a good beer pub, not your local dart shock)
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 16, 2010, 05:45:45 PM
If it comes down to a brew pub having to keep their doors open by offering BMC then I can see it. But if a brew pub can't come up with a "cross over" beer to please the masses and have to rely on Bud then their beers probably suck anyway and the doors probably won't be open long.

As I said before, you wouldn't offer McDonald's hamburgers at an upscale restaurant just because people amy want them. Its the same thing with a brew pub. And a brew pub should be all about educating teh public about fresh, local beer. They are sending the wrong message otherwise. And it is obvious from this thread that a good portion of craft beer drinkers would be turned off by seeing BMC sold at a brewpub. On top of all that its just weak.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mikey on September 16, 2010, 06:20:53 PM
The next time I go to a brewpub, I'm carrying in a sack of $1 Double Cheeseburgers, sitting at the bar and ordering a Bud, just to see what happens. Life is too short not to know.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 16, 2010, 06:23:48 PM
If it comes down to a brew pub having to keep their doors open by offering BMC then I can see it.

This was my point.

...but I can agree in the sense that a brewpub carrying BMC's only detracts from the craft beer products they create onsite.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: MrNate on September 16, 2010, 07:01:40 PM
As I said before, you wouldn't offer McDonald's hamburgers at an upscale restaurant just because people amy want them. Its the same thing with a brew pub. And a brew pub should be all about educating teh public about fresh, local beer. They are sending the wrong message otherwise. And it is obvious from this thread that a good portion of craft beer drinkers would be turned off by seeing BMC sold at a brewpub. On top of all that its just weak.

I don't disagree with your position, but I disagree with your analogy. People who eat McDonald's hamburgers will typically eat other hamburgers as well. Most of the BMC drinkers I know are ferociously loyal to ONE brand of domestic lager. So while you would probably be able to sell a restaurant burger to a McDonald's man, chances are that Mr. Bud Light and his buddies would turn and walk out the door. Whether or not that's acceptable to you as the pub owner is what should drive your decision.

That being said, I've always wondered if posting a big sign that clearly states BMC is foreign-owned and a big "Buy American" under that would be enough to sell an adequately watered-down house lager in a working-class town.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: capozzoli on September 16, 2010, 07:54:50 PM
If I was going to do it it would be PBR. Good cold and cheap. Even kinda kitch.

Thats why I wouldnt immediately judge a brew pub like the original post suggested I think? Or not take it seriously.

Its all market based. Maybe the original posts brew pub demands "regular beer". in order to hit their numbers. Without it the numbers get smaller.

If you open a business things dont always go as planned. You may have to change and move till you make it work.

But if commerce is your goal, its all supply and demand you will have to find out where the demand is and then fill it with supply.

Is there more mark up potentiality with BMC then micro brew?   

Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: beersk on September 16, 2010, 09:51:05 PM
As the great Bill Hicks would say, "You're wrong, get over it!"  

Absolutely no BMC taps next to your craft beer that you worked so hard to perfect and get to the level of opening your very own brewpub.  The furthest I can EVER see this going is at least offering that swill in bottles.  
YES, I will drink a BMC once in a while, but NEVER would I put that stuff along side my beer.  And most brewpubs offer a light lager anyway, give the customer that and if they don't like it, don't charge them.
I see selling out all over the place.  Just giving up on opening people up to new beers by offering BMC to people who haven't had the chance to try good beer before.  Maybe selling out is okay with you but it sure ain't with me.  I don't see dollar signs everywhere, I see opportunity to open people up to new beer.  And if they don't like it, well, you lost a customer, but that doesn't mean you won't gain several more by opening someone's eyes.  People will drink your beer.  If you build it, they will come.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: a10t2 on September 16, 2010, 09:59:39 PM
Is there more mark up potentiality with BMC then micro brew?

For commercial beers, yes. The typical markup on a $3 bottle of Budweiser is more than on a $5 pint of a micro. If you're talking about a brewpub, then maybe not. The margins on self-brewed beer are pretty much unbeatable.

I could easily see a situation in which a brewpub found that it wasn't worth their time and/or fermenter space to brew a light lager though. Especially if they were operating at or near capacity.

Just giving up on opening people up to new beers by offering BMC to people who haven't had the chance to try good beer before.  Maybe selling out is okay with you but it sure ain't with me.

By that logic, my brewpub wouldn't offer a stout, because I don't like them. I wouldn't presume to know more about what my customers want than they do, though.

If you're running a business you've already "sold out". Otherwise you could turn a lot more people on to your beer by selling it at cost, or giving it away.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Pawtucket Patriot on September 16, 2010, 11:41:23 PM
This debate is framed in a vacuum as far as I'm concerned.  I can't say I've ever been to a brewpub that serves BMC.  Seems highly unusual.  I guess others have, based on comments.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: MrNate on September 17, 2010, 12:18:12 AM
I dunno, I'm kind of enjoying my armchair publican role here.

For that matter, have you ever seen other micros on tap (other than guest brews, collborative brews, or the like) at a brewpub? I haven't. And if you ran a brewpub, would you have a tap for Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, or Stone? I wouldn't.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: BrewingRover on September 17, 2010, 02:44:18 AM
This debate is framed in a vacuum as far as I'm concerned.  I can't say I've ever been to a brewpub that serves BMC.  Seems highly unusual.  I guess others have, based on comments.

My local brewpub had a Miller Lite tap for years. The brewer finally convinced the owners to drop that for a guest tap a few years ago. He was still stuck with having two fruit beers on all the time, though, as the owners insisted. A lot of this is driven by the local demographics. Their American wheat is their best seller by a long way, I'm told.

I dunno, I'm kind of enjoying my armchair publican role here.

For that matter, have you ever seen other micros on tap (other than guest brews, collborative brews, or the like) at a brewpub? I haven't. And if you ran a brewpub, would you have a tap for Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, or Stone? I wouldn't.
The local has had an interesting range of guest beers, including a firkin of Surly Darkness one splendid night. My goodness, that's a great beer.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: nicneufeld on September 17, 2010, 02:47:48 AM
Maybe selling out is okay with you but it sure ain't with me.  I don't see dollar signs everywhere, I see opportunity to open people up to new beer. 

And this is why you would be -VERY- lucky to succeed for more than a couple years if you opened a brewpub or a restaurant or some such venture.  I'm not saying you couldn't do it, just that your idealism stacks the odds against you in a market where every homebrewer (and it seems every other one of my friends these days is either thinking of, or starting to get into homebrewing..a good thing!) harbors at some point fanciful dreams of starting a brewery or brewpub.

Selling out gets a bum rap.  I don't go to my day job because I have a fantastic passion for my work...I go to make money and pay my mortgage.  If you start a brewpub without the ultimate goal of paying off the debts you amassed and staying solvent and keeping your house and car and feeding your family, and you're unwilling to compromise on your lofty ideals to attain those, you'll be lucky if you avoid joining the idealists who make up the immensely huge proportion of failed business attempts.  What is it for restaurants?  9 out of 10 fail within a certain period of time?  I don't recall.

Don't get me wrong, a snobbery against commercial beer could work well.....IF your market supports it.  If you are catering to software engineers and middle managers in Redmond WA its really not in your interest to sell BMC or let it be seen around your brewpub.  In that case, $nobbery $ell$.  But in some other markets, if you refuse to stoop, you will fall as a martyr to your own zealous ideals of what beer should be.  If you open up a brewpub as a missionary station to proselytize, you will be lucky to keep it going unless that (nigh-religious snobbery in re beer) sells really well in your market.  And it certainly does in many urban wealthy markets!

Like I said, BMC is more natural than Diet Coke.  I didn't grow up drinking it, is that why you guys hate it with such reeligious fervor?
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mikey on September 17, 2010, 02:53:08 AM
Quote
Don't get me wrong, a snobbery against commercial beer could work well.....IF your market supports it. 

+10,000

I would have quoted the rest of your post,but I (and I'm sure others) get tired of reading the same thing over and over....
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: richardt on September 17, 2010, 03:36:34 AM
If you're in the brew bar or brew pub or microbrewery/restaurant business, you are in the hospitality business.

The customer is always right.  And a successful business owner who is chasing the profits is going to give the customer what he or she wants.  An artisanal brewer isn't necessarily going to give in to that pressure and would likely be content with a much smaller following (and profits, if any).

We love beer:  good, craft beer.  But, we're enlightened and adventurous.  Most people aren't.  As much as it pains me to say this, my wife doesn't like beer.  Even at my recent once-in-a-lifetime tapping party at the local brewpub (when my award-winning recipe got scaled up on a commercial system and brewed for public consumption)--my lovely and supportive wife was drinking ...white wine. ???  And, because of limited demand, some brewpubs just can't move certain beers quickly (e.g., stout) compared to house faves like pale ales or IPA's.

Most brewpubs make more money on food than booze.  (Not to mention that the alcohol licenses are cheaper in my state if the >51% food / >49% beer/booze rule is intact).  The microbrews might be what gets some people in the door, but the ambience, novelty, and food is what brings along the company and pays the bills.

I can be a proud man and a patriot.  If I ran a brewpub, and if I could remain in the black, it would only be the American microbrews on tap (my own, then other local, regional, and nationwide beers).  Of course, I'd probably end up with a special "reserve" list of (domestic and foreign) beers for the beer snobs amongst my clientelle who are into style calibrations.

Brand loyalty often breaks on price--you may wish to sell your lager or kolsch for $4/pint and a bottle of BMC lager for $5.  Again, you're in the hospitality business; you're giving the customer what they want (product), but not the price.

As a customer, it would not sit well with me if my wallet and I walked into a brewpub and my bartender, brewer, or brewpub owner were dismissive, rude, or condescending to me about any beer requests.  My money doesn't stink, and neither should your attitude towards customers.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: jeffy on September 17, 2010, 11:36:26 AM
Lots of people drink Arrogant Bastard in spite of the flagrant proclamation that you are not worthy.  They've made insulting the consumer work for them and they're militant against bland macro beers.
I know they are not a brewpub, but it still is in the same vein as the discussion here.
When the owners of a brewpub start referring to the beers as "product" their ideals may be lost.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: MrNate on September 17, 2010, 12:51:24 PM
Lots of people drink Arrogant Bastard in spite of the flagrant proclamation that you are not worthy.  They've made insulting the consumer work for them and they're militant against bland macro beers.
I know they are not a brewpub, but it still is in the same vein as the discussion here.
When the owners of a brewpub start referring to the beers as "product" their ideals may be lost.

AB has a much bigger pond to fish in.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 17, 2010, 12:59:10 PM

The customer is always right.  And a successful business owner who is chasing the profits is going to give the customer what he or she wants.  An artisanal brewer isn't necessarily going to give in to that pressure and would likely be content with a much smaller following (and profits, if any).


exactly, that's why you have a light, house brewed beer - like a kolsch or helles or wheat on tap.

I guess I'm done with this thread now. I can understand why people think that a brew pub might keep a light beer on tap to keep the lights on. I just think a brew pub would serve its own purposes far better if they kept a light beer of their own creation on tap.

IMO a brewpub that serves BMC goes against its own interest - which is serving good, local, fresh beer (and, of course, food.) I have never been in a brew pub that had any BMC product on tap - I have seen guest taps - but never a Macro tap. And it would seem odd and out of place to me.

I think the best suggestion was what was mentioned above. Charge 4 dollars a beer for house brews and keep some long neck Bud on ice for $8 a bottle.

The only other thing I will say is there is a certain amount of integrity you loose as a promoter of fresh, local, craft beer when you also support Macro type beer. It just doesn't feel right to me. That said, if the issue came down to keeping the lights one - well - you do what you have to do.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 17, 2010, 01:00:14 PM
My goal in the grand scheme of things is to promote craft beer as a product.  I really don't think BMC's need any help promoting their products.  ::)  Good craft beer is the whole reason I am here and the reason we are all gathered here at this moment.  I spend everyday of my life working toward the advancement of craft beer within the homebrewing circle. I do not own a brewpub but I frequent brewpubs from time to time and I go to brewpubs to fancy craft beer not BMC.  I would like to believe that most folks do the same. I believe brewpubs are in business to produce and sell craft beer not BMC and would not have a BMC tap or bottle in the house if they could avoid it (reference my previous post). Let's face it folks "our competition is BMC".  

Perhaps the question one should ask themselves while at a brewpub..."Do I want to order a MGD or do I want to order a Munich Helles" as crafted by the brewpub. I personally believe 99% of the folks that are reading this right now will choose the Helles and the other one percent are surfing the web and don't even know what a Munich Helles is.

Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mikey on September 17, 2010, 01:40:50 PM
Chances are if you go to a Mexican restaurant you'll find a hamburger listed, especially on the kids menu. I'm sure they don't really want to do that, but they have to appeal to all and that includes kids.

Same thing goes for BMC. In any group of people, there will likely be someone that wants that Bud Light or MGB 64. You can try and shove a wheat beer or kolsch at them, but I'll bet most will turn it down. Some people are really trying to lose weight and it's damned hard to brew a beer that compares with some of the ultra lights.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: nicneufeld on September 17, 2010, 01:56:29 PM
Chances are if you go to a Mexican restaurant you'll find a hamburger listed, especially on the kids menu. I'm sure they don't really want to do that, but they have to appeal to all and that includes kids.

Good analogy...to take it further, think of your two main sorts of Mexican restaurants...the nice ones obsessed with authenticity and "real" mexican food, that serve small batch mezcal and authentic cuisine from Oaxaca and elsewhere and are kind of in the Rick Bayless mold, and the places that serve chips and salsa, burritos, cheesy enchiladas, beans and rice, and strawberry margaritas.  If you open up the first sort in a well-to-do urban area, you may do very well!  The affluent young set thrives on that sort of thing, and unloads its coffers to the providers thereof.  But say you're opening up a place in a small lakeside town in rural Missouri.  Good luck with that!  This is my point, its all about playing to your market, and if your market can support a pure, packed-to-the-gills-with-ideals brewpub that serves only organic food and on-premise beer and whatever else your personal beliefs lead you to see as righteous, then DO that!  But other markets may require a "mixed" model, with commercial and craft beer, to stay solvent in that area.  Urban Kansas City, most brewpubs just serve onpremise beer.  Morgan County MO, I'd be surprised if the one brewpub I know of there (which piggybacked off of a winery, otherwise I'm not sure they could have afforded to start one) serves only their own beer, because people down there like American lager, and unless you only go to the brewpub with the 3 other craft beer guys in the county, they should have a product for the rest of those folks.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: ryang on September 17, 2010, 02:05:50 PM
The only other thing I will say is there is a certain amount of integrity you loose as a promoter of fresh, local, craft beer when you also support Macro type beer. It just doesn't feel right to me. That said, if the issue came down to keeping the lights one - well - you do what you have to do.

I agree.  It just seems wrong.

If I was going to do it it would be PBR. Good cold and cheap. Even kinda kitch.

Thats why I wouldnt immediately judge a brew pub like the original post suggested I think? Or not take it seriously.

Whenever I need something along the lines of cheap beer, I'd have to agree with you on PBR although I don't know what 'kitch' is  :-\

I didn't and don't immediately judge the places that serve BMC alongside their own brews.  I was just a little dissapointed to see that and the fact that most were drinking the BMC. 

As far as seriousness, if I were the brewer, I couldn't take myself seriously if I had BMC on tap.  I'm on the same lines as major... stay consistent with what you started brewing for.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 17, 2010, 02:08:31 PM
As far as seriousness, if I were the brewer, I couldn't take myself seriously if I had BMC on tap.  I'm on the same lines as major... stay consistent with what you started brewing for.

+1

...and most importantly...support American Hand Crafted Beer.  8)
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: dirk_mclargehuge on September 17, 2010, 02:15:02 PM
Perhaps the question one should ask themselves while at a brewpub..."Do I want to order a MGD or do I want to order a Munich Helles" as crafted by the brewpub. I personally believe 99% of the folks that are reading this right now will choose the Helles and the other one percent are surfing the web and don't even know what a Munich Helles is.

A good business owner will want to please that 1% of folks you guess are surfing the web.  I have heard brewpub owners say they keep bottles of BMC for large groups that have people who don't like craft beer.  (Yes.  There are people who don't like craft beer.  That's why so much BMC is sold.)  They want those people to spend money in their establishment, too.  They make their money on drinks, and to exclude 1-2% is bad business.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 17, 2010, 02:31:21 PM
Someone email Russian River and ask Vinny what he thinks about keeping a Bud Light tap on hand. I bet you he would have plenty to say on the subject of why this is a bad idea.  ;) When you are in business you need to be consistent. If you are going fort a prestige and quality beer as your goal, you had better stick to that. Putting bud light on tap is an inconsistent message.

Even when Drew mentioned the pub that had Stella Artois on tap - we all know what Stella is, but at the very least it says "Prestige". I can understand that at a beer bar, certainly.

And the "Mexican Rest. keeping hamburgers on" is really not the best analogy. A better analogy for that would be a Brewpub  keeping a root beer tap on hand. Few adults that don't care for mexican food are going to find themselves in a mexican restaurant eating a hamburger. If they don't like Mexi. food, they most likely simply won't be in there.

mexi food places keep the burger and chix fingers for the kids - brewpubs keep the Cream Soda and Rootbeer on draft for the kids.

How many times have you been ina  restaurant that doesn;t carry anything except BMC? I can mention lots of restaurants. because those restaurants are not catering to craft beer drinkers.

But if a Brew Pub is trying to promote an image, that image is to appeal to Craft Beer drinkers - and having a Bud Light tap up there with your house taps is not sending the right image. And the folks who don;t enjoy craft beer will probably just not set foot in there.

The VERY last thing I will say (this time for real  ;)) is that our local craft beer joing does not carry any Bud products. If you go in  there and ask for a Bud you get Budwar - and the bar staff tells me that most of the bud drinker that come in there find themselves pleasantly surprised.

If you are a pub owner, and you want to show that you have faith in your beer and you want to project an image to those craft beer drinkers that you are serious about beer, you are doing a bad job by having a Coors Light tap in line with your house taps. And if craft beer drinkers don't take your beer seriously then you really are shooting yourself in the foot. And buy the negative responses in this post I'd guess you are turning at least 50% or more craft beer drinkers off. That's a serious chunk of your business right there. If the craft beer drinkers don't take you seriously, but you get the BMC croud in the doors - then what exactly are you?

OK - I've just said the same thing in several different ways over and over again. I'm done.  :P
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 17, 2010, 02:32:58 PM
Perhaps the question one should ask themselves while at a brewpub..."Do I want to order a MGD or do I want to order a Munich Helles" as crafted by the brewpub. I personally believe 99% of the folks that are reading this right now will choose the Helles and the other one percent are surfing the web and don't even know what a Munich Helles is.

A good business owner will want to please that 1% of folks you guess are surfing the web.  I have heard brewpub owners say they keep bottles of BMC for large groups that have people who don't like craft beer.  (Yes.  There are people who don't like craft beer.  That's why so much BMC is sold.)  They want those people to spend money in their establishment, too.  They make their money on drinks, and to exclude 1-2% is bad business.

Agreed in that a good business owner will want to please that 1%, however I think you'll find most brewpubs don't serve BMC's and those that do are the minority...YMMV.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mikey on September 17, 2010, 02:40:35 PM
Quote
...however I think you'll find most brewpubs don't serve BMC's and those that do are the minority...YMMV. 

Gotta say, I find the exact opposite of that. I can't remember one that doesn't have some BMC around and the reason I know that is because I look around at what people are drinking. Sure, I find it odd that you'll turn down good craft beer for BMC, but I see it all the time.

Never forget that variety is the spice of life. Bottom line, if I ever owned a brewpub (and that will be never) my effort would be to please the masses and make money. I certainly wouldn't be in business just to promote the craft beer industry. I'll let others carry that flag.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 17, 2010, 02:51:10 PM
Gotta say, I find the exact opposite of that. I can't remember one that doesn't have some BMC around and the reason I know that is because I look around at what people are drinking. Sure, I find it odd that you'll turn down good craft beer for BMC, but I see it all the time.

Can you provide some examples?

Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: nicneufeld on September 17, 2010, 03:05:02 PM
although I don't know what 'kitch' is 

It's THIS GUY!

(http://www.sterlingtimes.org/kitchener.jpg)

Even if he did make a dog's breakfast of the Transvaal.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 17, 2010, 03:25:51 PM
I've been to probably 25, maybe even 30 brewpubs over the years and I have never seen any that had BMC. Never. Not one. Period. Ever.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mikey on September 17, 2010, 03:30:36 PM
Gordon Beirsch
BJ's
Many of the McMenamins
Humperdinks
There's a brewpub/casino in Vegas that does, but the name escapes me
I also believe that Wild River locations do and also Pelican as well, but I could be wrong here.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 17, 2010, 03:49:20 PM
The three local brepubs that I go to on occasion:

Dogfish Head
Victory Brewing
Iron Hill Brewing

They don't serve anything other than their beer and they are all very successful.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mikey on September 17, 2010, 03:52:55 PM
I'm not saying that ALL brewpubs sell BMC, but I'd bet that the majority do. Some of the ones I listed are chains, but lets face it, you don't become a chain unless you are successful.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 17, 2010, 03:57:51 PM
Appalachian Brewing Co, Big River Brewing Co, Russian River, Bear Republic, Blackstones, Boscos, Sedona, Moylans, Troegs... I can't even begin to name them all - never saw a BMC there. You'd think if they were in a majority of brewpubs I would have seen at least one tap somewhere.

Now, I have been to a Gordon Birsch once or twice and they may have had one, not sure.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 17, 2010, 04:00:59 PM
...and success lies in the water, grain, hops and yeast of the beer that the brewpub brews my freind.  ;)
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mikey on September 17, 2010, 04:08:00 PM
Hang on, I never said these all had BMC on tap. I'm just saying they serve it in one form or another. That said, I don't think it matters.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: MrNate on September 17, 2010, 04:29:29 PM
The VERY last thing I will say (this time for real  ;)) is that our local craft beer joing does not carry any Bud products. If you go in  there and ask for a Bud you get Budwar - and the bar staff tells me that most of the bud drinker that come in there find themselves pleasantly surprised.

That's hilarious - I like that!

Anyway, a couple of points and then I'll leave it all alone as well.

1. This idea that if you don't serve BMC, you're alienating 1% of your potential clientele is horse hockey. Maybe where you live, but I've never been anywhere that "People who will drink craft beer" outnumbered "People who will not drink craft beer" by 99 to one. On top of that, if you make the more reasonable assumption that we're talking about what people would prefer, and what establishments they would correspondingly choose to frequent, the 1% assumption becomes even more preposterous. Face it, craft beer preference is in the minority. The 1% assumption is ridiculous.

2. Citing Gordon, Stone, Troegs, DFH, etc. as succesful examples is misleading at best. THose companies are primarily producing beer for distribution. That's their bread and butter, not the brewpub. The brewpubs act more as marketing for the primary product. Not to say that the brewpub wasn't what initially made them, but that those brewpubs are currently in a different business from independent brewpubs. Their brand management is far more critical than individual location success. If a location failed because it could not overcome local BMC preference, they would close up shop and try somewhere else. An independent proprietor doesn't have this luxury.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: Mikey on September 17, 2010, 04:45:22 PM
Appalachian Brewing Co, Big River Brewing Co, Russian River, Bear Republic, Blackstones, Boscos, Sedona, Moylans, Troegs... I can't even begin to name them all - never saw a BMC there. You'd think if they were in a majority of brewpubs I would have seen at least one tap somewhere.

Now, I have been to a Gordon Birsch once or twice and they may have had one, not sure.

Big River sells BMC. Not sure of all of the rest listed.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: majorvices on September 17, 2010, 05:22:27 PM
well, maybe you are right. I just looked at their website and found out they were owned by Gordon Birsch. I didn't know that.  Pretty sure the one in Chattanooga doesn't carry BMC because I have been in there several times but maybe I just didn't notice.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: capozzoli on September 17, 2010, 10:53:07 PM
although I don't know what 'kitch' is  

It's THIS GUY!

(http://www.sterlingtimes.org/kitchener.jpg)

Even if he did make a dog's breakfast of the Transvaal.

Kitch = retro-chic. I think that is a good definition. Did I spell chic correctly? Maybe I am spelling kitch wrong. Oh its spelled kitsch,sorry

My brew pub would have a warm interior of hearty hardwoods and brick. There would be fire places and a long bar that was made of one solid piece of wood. Behind that through glass would be the small brew system. The taps and beer engines would be on that wall as if to come right from the brewery.

The dining room would be comfortable and casual but hearty. On the back wall visible to the diners would be the open hearth fire pit for grilling steaks and chops. Behind that a wood fired oven. There would be another kitchen line behind that in the next room.

The menu would be old world smoke house/steaks and chops., saur braten, micro batch sauerkraut. (Deep fried sauerkraut as a snack at the bar). Some hearty stews on the menu too like goulash. bigos, nice salads. Home made wood oven breads.

The place would smell like the stuff of dreams when you walk in.

There would be no BMC on tap, Maybe bottles.

If things dont work out. BMC  on the taps and the brew equipment will be exchanged for a stripper pole.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: bluesman on September 17, 2010, 11:32:58 PM
There would be no BMC on tap, Maybe bottles.
If things dont work out. BMC  on the taps and the brew equipment will be exchanged for a stripper pole.

LMAO.  :D

This is too funny man.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: capozzoli on September 17, 2010, 11:39:56 PM
Or make it a micro batch sausage place. Change the brew equipment for a micro meat packing plant.

Could make it a REAL manly place.Then I would have to change the name to the Sausage Factory.

You have to be able to adapt.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: nicneufeld on September 18, 2010, 12:50:59 AM
Yeah, I won't pretend I didn't make up a complete menu and a half-hearted "business plan" for my brewpub.  It was going to be British style bitters and other ales, with British (and colonial, ie., Indian etc.) food, meat pies, and such...catering to the expatriates, and "colonial" students at the local college (probably somewhere near 70% of my computer science fellow students were from South Asia, from my alma mater).

I would patronize Caps joint.  All the alluded rustic heartiness sounds vaguely east european, so bring out the mezze platters with dried beef and cured sausages, ajvar, and slivovica, and I'm there...
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: capozzoli on September 18, 2010, 02:26:49 AM
Kitsch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitsch

Would be a great name for a hip stylish type bar. Good beers on tap, quick bar food of a Central European theme.
Title: Re: Brewpubs that serve BMC
Post by: nicneufeld on September 18, 2010, 03:09:21 AM
I still vote for Lord Kitchener, but then, I am a long time student of South African military history.