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General Category => All Grain Brewing => Topic started by: redrocker652002 on April 14, 2022, 05:44:16 pm

Title: Sierra Nevada
Post by: redrocker652002 on April 14, 2022, 05:44:16 pm
I have a few minutes to kill before I go to work and I was poking around looking for other beer clones of beers I like.  I was always a fan of Sierra Nevada's pale ale, so I thought I would check that out.  Much to my surprise, they actually have the recipe including mash and sparge schedule on their website.  Damn, that is cool!!!!   OK, so with a renewed enthusiasm, I think maybe I am going to give a pale ale a shot this week as well as my Elysian Space Dust clone.  Sierra Nevada also has the recipe for their Torpedo IPA.  I might go grab a six pack of that and give it a go.  If I like it, that might make the list as well.  I always figured the beer companies, like Sierra Nevada and Russian River, would be very hush hush on their recipes and what they use.  I also have an email to Bear Republic to see what they will give me on their Racer 5 to do an all grain version of that.  I need to break in my Gas One kettle and new outdoor burner, so as long as the rain holds out, stay tuned for more in the "Adventures and Misadventures of RedRocker."  LOL.  Be safe all. 
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Bob357 on April 14, 2022, 06:23:31 pm
Don't get your hopes up. It takes a lot more than the recipe to clone a commercial beer. Many experienced homebrewers have tried to clone SNPA, some giving up after several unsuccessful attempts and some still trying. The recipe is a great starting point for the style, so you're likely to brew a nice beer with it.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: fredthecat on April 14, 2022, 07:43:20 pm
I have a few minutes to kill before I go to work and I was poking around looking for other beer clones of beers I like.  I was always a fan of Sierra Nevada's pale ale, so I thought I would check that out.  Much to my surprise, they actually have the recipe including mash and sparge schedule on their website.  Damn, that is cool!!!!   OK, so with a renewed enthusiasm, I think maybe I am going to give a pale ale a shot this week as well as my Elysian Space Dust clone.  Sierra Nevada also has the recipe for their Torpedo IPA.  I might go grab a six pack of that and give it a go.  If I like it, that might make the list as well.  I always figured the beer companies, like Sierra Nevada and Russian River, would be very hush hush on their recipes and what they use.  I also have an email to Bear Republic to see what they will give me on their Racer 5 to do an all grain version of that.  I need to break in my Gas One kettle and new outdoor burner, so as long as the rain holds out, stay tuned for more in the "Adventures and Misadventures of RedRocker."  LOL.  Be safe all.

yup, its always a cool feeling to get an idea of a confirmed grist for a beer you like. but yes, as said cloning it is a whole other challenge. knowing details about a beer you want to make definitely helps you out in getting closer to recreating it though. good luck. im sure there is a lot of SNPA homebrewing advice out there.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 14, 2022, 07:59:48 pm
What they are saying is fact. The clone recipe we used for a commercial beer was not even close. The beer was and is very good, but it is not a "clone" of the beer in the recipe. As Denny said, there is more to a beer than just a recipe.
Your beer will be great. Good luck and have fun.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Richard on April 14, 2022, 08:04:41 pm
I like Torpedo, and when I first started brewing I tried to clone it, along with other beers I liked. After a while I gave up trying to create clones, and now I just make beers that I like. I have made some fantastic IPAs, but never one that is exactly like Torpedo or Space Dust. So what? The beers were great on their own. If I want a Torpedo I know where to get one.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: redrocker652002 on April 14, 2022, 08:27:23 pm
Thanks to all who replied.  I just thought it was pretty cool of them to actually put the ingredients down and amounts for each.  Will it be the same?  I am guessing not by what I am reading, but what the hell.  I am going to give it a try and see where I end up.  If it is a good beer, that's all I care about.  Once again, thanks to all who replied.  RR
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: tommymorris on April 14, 2022, 08:35:40 pm
Thanks to all who replied.  I just thought it was pretty cool of them to actually put the ingredients down and amounts for each.  Will it be the same?  I am guessing not by what I am reading, but what the hell.  I am going to give it a try and see where I end up.  If it is a good beer, that's all I care about.  Once again, thanks to all who replied.  RR
I’ve brewed the SNPA recipe from their website. My beer was not the same as actual SNPA. But, it was definitely good.

I agree it is awesome they publish those recipes. They are a great place to start. Try them with different hops to experiment.
Title: Sierra Nevada
Post by: BrewBama on April 15, 2022, 06:10:12 am
If you like published recipes, several other breweries are pretty cool about sharing as well. Avery lists a few, Brewdawg prints a book, Bell’s and others. They really do make great beers but it also reinforces the concepts used in recipe development because you can see what they’re doing.

https://www.brewdog.com/uk/diy-dog

https://www.averybrewing.com/beers/ellie-s-brown-ale

https://www.averybrewing.com/beers/ipa

https://www.averybrewing.com/beers/the-maharaja

https://www.averybrewing.com/beers/the-reverend

https://www.averybrewing.com/beers/the-kaiser

https://www.averybrewing.com/beers/old-jubiliation-ale

https://www.averybrewing.com/beers/hog-heaven

https://bellsbeer.com/homebrew-central/tips-tricks-and-bells-clone-recipes-for-homebrewing/

Unlike a homebrewer’s recipe, in a professional recipe you’ll see most grain bills exercise restraint.  A base malt or combination of base malts (Pale, Pils, Munich, Vienna,…), if warranted a special malt (Melatonin, Honey, Victory,…) and/or an adjunct (corn, rye, oats,…), maybe a ‘C’ malt or two (Cara-, Crystal, Caramel,..), possibly a roast (choc/Carafa, midnight wheat, roast barley,…), maybe a sugar (Demerara, lactose, invert,…).
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 15, 2022, 06:45:46 am
If you want published recipes, from professional craft breweries, Craft Beer & Brewing is a worthwhile subscription.

They feature many beers and styles, from a large number of breweries. With input from the brewers, and the full recipe, scaled down to 5 gallons.

Lot's of good and interesting info there.

https://beerandbrewing.com/?__s=bt37veims9ntewb202b2
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Steve Ruch on April 15, 2022, 08:23:18 am
 Cloning a (10s or 100s) thousands of gallons commercial beer in a five gallon home brew batch ain't happening. The volume alone makes it pretty much impossible, not to mention their actual process compared to home brewing on a propane burner or stove. And you might or might not get the exact same grains, hops, and yeast that they use
At best you might be able to brew something that resembles the commercial beer. "Hey, this reminds me of Sierra Nevada pale ale".
Instead of clone I prefer the term ballpark beer.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: ynotbrusum on April 15, 2022, 08:33:42 am
Cloning a (10s or 100s) thousands of gallons commercial beer in a five gallon home brew batch ain't happening. The volume alone makes it pretty much impossible, not to mention their actual process compared to home brewing on a propane burner or stove. And you might or might not get the exact same grains, hops, and yeast that they use
At best you might be able to brew something that resembles the commercial beer. "Hey, this reminds me of Sierra Nevada pale ale".
Instead of clone I prefer the term ballpark beer.

I adopted Denny's term:  an homage beer.  It quiets the naysayers.  My response if differences are brought up:  "Of course its different - I brewed it!"
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: denny on April 15, 2022, 08:33:57 am
Get over the word "clone".  It ain't gonna happen.  When I use a commercial beer as a goal, I call it an homage.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 15, 2022, 08:38:42 am
Get over the word "clone".  It ain't gonna happen.  When I use a commercial beer as a goal, I call it an homage.

My new phrase is "Copy Cat Beer". And if I want a genuine commercial version, I will just buy a keg.

Or, it could be referred to as a "Tribute Beer". No, you ain't gonna clone anything!
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Big_Eight on April 15, 2022, 08:44:01 am
Get over the word "clone".  It ain't gonna happen.  When I use a commercial beer as a goal, I call it an homage.
I call it an attempt at whatever commercial recipe it is lol. If it makes good beer that I like and has some kind of resemblance I'm happy with it.

Thanks for the links @BrewBama .
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: pete b on April 15, 2022, 09:43:39 am
I call it "inspired by..."
One reason pro brewer's are often generous with their recipes is that they know clones are not a thing.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: MNWayne on April 15, 2022, 11:40:22 am
Homage, ball park, attempt, in the neighborhood of.....  I attempted NSPA, I thought I got it damn close, had a side-by-side tasting with friends and everyone liked my attempt better than the actual, then I tweaked it, and it went the wrong way.  But it was still good beer and I might try again in a few batches.  It'll never be a perfect match, the water, temperatures, yeast adaptation, batch size effects, other nuances that SN doesn't share. It's all part of the magic of brewing.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 15, 2022, 01:04:51 pm
I have to eat my words! About 20 months ago we brewed a German Pilsner, with W-34/70 yeast. Ireks Pilsner Malt.

We did not attempt to copy-cat any beer. But in a side-by-side taste test, among 3 people, they could not tell the difference between our Pils and a bottle of Weihenstephaner Premium Pils.

There was no recipe we followed, it was just brewed to be something we would enjoy drinking. So...it can be done. Even by default!
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Iliff Ave on April 15, 2022, 05:44:02 pm
I have to eat my words! About 20 months ago we brewed a German Pilsner, with W-34/70 yeast. Ireks Pilsner Malt.

We did not attempt to copy-cat any beer. But in a side-by-side taste test, among 3 people, they could not tell the difference between our Pils and a bottle of Weihenstephaner Premium Pils.

There was no recipe we followed, it was just brewed to be something we would enjoy drinking. So...it can be done. Even by default!
I’m not surprised. You guys are doing world class beers. Being able to clone beers without trying is like witchcraft. The future is bright! When when I be able to find these beers on the shelves?
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: fredthecat on April 15, 2022, 07:20:05 pm
I have to eat my words! About 20 months ago we brewed a German Pilsner, with W-34/70 yeast. Ireks Pilsner Malt.

We did not attempt to copy-cat any beer. But in a side-by-side taste test, among 3 people, they could not tell the difference between our Pils and a bottle of Weihenstephaner Premium Pils.

There was no recipe we followed, it was just brewed to be something we would enjoy drinking. So...it can be done. Even by default!


I’m not surprised. You guys are doing world class beers. Being able to clone beers without trying is like witchcraft. The future is bright! When when I be able to find these beers on the shelves?

 :-X

I kind of want to try one of these things more than anything now tbh.


Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 15, 2022, 07:42:23 pm
I have to eat my words! About 20 months ago we brewed a German Pilsner, with W-34/70 yeast. Ireks Pilsner Malt.

We did not attempt to copy-cat any beer. But in a side-by-side taste test, among 3 people, they could not tell the difference between our Pils and a bottle of Weihenstephaner Premium Pils.

There was no recipe we followed, it was just brewed to be something we would enjoy drinking. So...it can be done. Even by default!
I’m not surprised. You guys are doing world class beers. Being able to clone beers without trying is like witchcraft. The future is bright! When when I be able to find these beers on the shelves?

You say so.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 15, 2022, 08:29:51 pm
I have to eat my words! About 20 months ago we brewed a German Pilsner, with W-34/70 yeast. Ireks Pilsner Malt.

We did not attempt to copy-cat any beer. But in a side-by-side taste test, among 3 people, they could not tell the difference between our Pils and a bottle of Weihenstephaner Premium Pils.

There was no recipe we followed, it was just brewed to be something we would enjoy drinking. So...it can be done. Even by default!

Now take your beer to Freising and try that with Bier at the source.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 15, 2022, 08:35:53 pm
NHC 2009 both Ken Gosmann and Vinnie Chilurzo said that they hae fiven out the "recipe" for their famous beers, but you could only get close, as you don't  have their ingredients,  equipment,  or process. As i say often a recipe is a list of ingredients and how to process them.  Most homebrewers will ignore that last part.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Richard on April 16, 2022, 09:25:32 am
In 2018 Sierra Nevada sponsored a "collaboration brew" of Resilience IPA. They published the recipe and encouraged breweries to brew it and donate their profits to a fund to provide relief for victims of the Camp fire, near the Sierra Nevada headquarters in Chico. Over a thousand breweries participated. A homebrewer's version was also published (https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/sierra-nevada-resilience-ipa/ ). This provided an interesting opportunity to sample the same recipe brewed at different locations. I personally tried the Sierra Nevada version, my own version, and a couple from local breweries. They were all similar but definitely not the same!
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 16, 2022, 03:14:08 pm
I have to eat my words! About 20 months ago we brewed a German Pilsner, with W-34/70 yeast. Ireks Pilsner Malt.

We did not attempt to copy-cat any beer. But in a side-by-side taste test, among 3 people, they could not tell the difference between our Pils and a bottle of Weihenstephaner Premium Pils.

There was no recipe we followed, it was just brewed to be something we would enjoy drinking. So...it can be done. Even by default!

Now take your beer to Freising and try that with Bier at the source.

I would LOVE to do that! This beer was brewed almost 2 years ago. So that will not happen. And we have to factor in the bottles of Weihenstephaner we used for comparison would not taste like the beer in the homeland.

However, a slight modification on this recipe got us a couple Gold Medals (Munich Helles / Oktoberfest), and a ticket to the Best Of Show judging at the Bluebonnet National, in 2021. I cannot take any credit for the awards, as it is all talent on loan from God.

This was with W-34/70 yeast...which we no longer care for, or use.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 16, 2022, 03:55:58 pm
In 2018 Sierra Nevada sponsored a "collaboration brew" of Resilience IPA. They published the recipe and encouraged breweries to brew it and donate their profits to a fund to provide relief for victims of the Camp fire, near the Sierra Nevada headquarters in Chico. Over a thousand breweries participated. A homebrewer's version was also published (https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/sierra-nevada-resilience-ipa/ ). This provided an interesting opportunity to sample the same recipe brewed at different locations. I personally tried the Sierra Nevada version, my own version, and a couple from local breweries. They were all similar but definitely not the same!

It is not unlike airplanes, and WWII replicas. I built a replica P-51D Mustang. It looks nice, flies nice, and to many folks looks like the real thing...but it is not.
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-6SVVrpqL4aGVN8crLXyphWl_j1hzwcUEpndmB0aupaGPG8EAFZ5ciP1WWjfUq68naAUrgnwgvQnZ_1RWb7NZPA?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1640981247)
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Bob357 on April 16, 2022, 03:56:49 pm
" talent on loan from God." A phrase borrowed from a great man! May he rest in peace.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 16, 2022, 04:04:45 pm
" talent on loan from God." A phrase borrowed from a great man! May he rest in peace.

You got that right.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: redrocker652002 on April 16, 2022, 04:26:10 pm
In 2018 Sierra Nevada sponsored a "collaboration brew" of Resilience IPA. They published the recipe and encouraged breweries to brew it and donate their profits to a fund to provide relief for victims of the Camp fire, near the Sierra Nevada headquarters in Chico. Over a thousand breweries participated. A homebrewer's version was also published (https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/sierra-nevada-resilience-ipa/ ). This provided an interesting opportunity to sample the same recipe brewed at different locations. I personally tried the Sierra Nevada version, my own version, and a couple from local breweries. They were all similar but definitely not the same!

It is not unlike airplanes, and WWII replicas. I built a replica P-51D Mustang. It looks nice, flies nice, and to many folks looks like the real thing...but it is not.
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-6SVVrpqL4aGVN8crLXyphWl_j1hzwcUEpndmB0aupaGPG8EAFZ5ciP1WWjfUq68naAUrgnwgvQnZ_1RWb7NZPA?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1640981247)

That is really cool.  Great looking plane.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: fredthecat on April 16, 2022, 07:11:19 pm

This was with W-34/70 yeast...which we no longer care for, or use.

ok, so you're saying you have improved upon the beer that was a perfect clone of weihenstephaner? that's even better
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: hopfenundmalz on April 17, 2022, 11:31:05 am
In 2018 Sierra Nevada sponsored a "collaboration brew" of Resilience IPA. They published the recipe and encouraged breweries to brew it and donate their profits to a fund to provide relief for victims of the Camp fire, near the Sierra Nevada headquarters in Chico. Over a thousand breweries participated. A homebrewer's version was also published (https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-recipe/sierra-nevada-resilience-ipa/ ). This provided an interesting opportunity to sample the same recipe brewed at different locations. I personally tried the Sierra Nevada version, my own version, and a couple from local breweries. They were all similar but definitely not the same!

It is not unlike airplanes, and WWII replicas. I built a replica P-51D Mustang. It looks nice, flies nice, and to many folks looks like the real thing...but it is not.
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/render/00-6SVVrpqL4aGVN8crLXyphWl_j1hzwcUEpndmB0aupaGPG8EAFZ5ciP1WWjfUq68naAUrgnwgvQnZ_1RWb7NZPA?cn=THISLIFE&res=medium&ts=1640981247)

How long did they take. Tell me about the engine.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 17, 2022, 12:46:37 pm
hopfenundmalz -

PM sent.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: chumley on April 18, 2022, 03:28:10 pm
My experience with these clone recipes for PAs or IPAs is to increase the amount of hops by 50% or so. My theory is that commercial brewers have access to fresher hops than we homebrewers have. Once I started jacking up the hops I became way happy with my hoppier beers.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: redrocker652002 on April 18, 2022, 04:50:56 pm
My experience with these clone recipes for PAs or IPAs is to increase the amount of hops by 50% or so. My theory is that commercial brewers have access to fresher hops than we homebrewers have. Once I started jacking up the hops I became way happy with my hoppier beers.

Good info, thanks.  I have a couple of others I am going to try, but this one is on my list. 
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: rtstrider on May 18, 2022, 01:21:11 pm
I've brewed the clone and as others said it's not even in the ballpark. Now a Cascade/Briess 2 row smash with the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale yeast fermented around 67F is really good!
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: redrocker652002 on May 18, 2022, 10:06:42 pm
I've brewed the clone and as others said it's not even in the ballpark. Now a Cascade/Briess 2 row smash with the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale yeast fermented around 67F is really good!

Good to know.  I am hoping to have a crop of Cascade in the near future.  How much 2 row and cascade and when did you add?  Any info would be awesome as I can put it on my list of tries   
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: denny on May 19, 2022, 08:31:07 am
I've brewed the clone and as others said it's not even in the ballpark. Now a Cascade/Briess 2 row smash with the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale yeast fermented around 67F is really good!

Good to know.  I am hoping to have a crop of Cascade in the near future.  How much 2 row and cascade and when did you add?  Any info would be awesome as I can put it on my list of tries

Go find a recipe,called Nearly Nirvana.  It was a Big Brew recipe years ago.  As close to SNPA as you can get in homebrew.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: BrewnWKopperKat on May 19, 2022, 04:06:55 pm
https://www.realbeer.com/news/articles/news-000767.php

https://web.archive.org/web/20101212112952/beerdujour.com/Recipes/ChrisFrey/Nearly_Nirvana_-_the_Original_Big_Brew_2000_Recipe.html

Does AHA still have the recipes from all the prior big beer days (and learn to brew days)?  Are they at the web site and I didn't see them?
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: redrocker652002 on May 19, 2022, 05:20:52 pm
I've brewed the clone and as others said it's not even in the ballpark. Now a Cascade/Briess 2 row smash with the Sierra Nevada Pale Ale yeast fermented around 67F is really good!

Good to know.  I am hoping to have a crop of Cascade in the near future.  How much 2 row and cascade and when did you add?  Any info would be awesome as I can put it on my list of tries

Thanks Denny. 

Go find a recipe,called Nearly Nirvana.  It was a Big Brew recipe years ago.  As close to SNPA as you can get in homebrew.
Title: Re: Sierra Nevada
Post by: redrocker652002 on May 19, 2022, 05:23:18 pm
https://www.realbeer.com/news/articles/news-000767.php

https://web.archive.org/web/20101212112952/beerdujour.com/Recipes/ChrisFrey/Nearly_Nirvana_-_the_Original_Big_Brew_2000_Recipe.html

Does AHA still have the recipes from all the prior big beer days (and learn to brew days)?  Are they at the web site and I didn't see them?

Perfect.   Thank you sir.  I am going to try this one soo as I am wanting to expand my brews from just IPAs