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General Category => Yeast and Fermentation => Topic started by: Bel Air Brewing on April 17, 2022, 06:49:09 am

Title: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 17, 2022, 06:49:09 am
There are several options for yeast:

Diamond Lager
Wyeast 2007 Pilsen Lager
Wyeast 2278 Czech Pils
Wyeast 2001 PC H Strain

Any suggestions here? Other brands? Saflager strains?
We are going for the classic Czech Pilsner profile, with Saaz hops, Czech malt, soft water, decoction mash, etc.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: ynotbrusum on April 17, 2022, 07:00:18 am
The H strain is purported to be what is used - maybe just a little more fruity?  I prefer the Diamond, but it could be that it ferments more completely than the H strain (it ends a bit higher, as I hear it.  Perhaps a chance to split batch it?

Enjoy in any event!  Cheers.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: MDL on April 17, 2022, 08:07:34 am
Cellar Science Berlin/Fermentis S23 are genetically close to WYeast 2001/Pilsner Urquell H strain.

I’ve used the Berlin strain and I think it would make a nice Bo pils. It’s soft and slightly fruity which would work well with all the elements of a Pilsner Urquell type pils.

Berlin is slow to ferment compared to Diamond or 34/70. Took take near 12-14 days to reach terminal gravity at 50F. This was a heavy pitch of about 1.8 grams per liter.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 17, 2022, 09:24:26 am
Yes, the plan is to do a split batch, 5 gallons each, with Diamond and one other yeast.
We have not brewed a Czech Pils for a long, long time.
In fact, it was the very first beer our team brewed after we purchased all of our new brewing equipment.

Saflager S-23?
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: HighVoltageMan! on April 17, 2022, 02:24:18 pm
Noooooo!  If you want a crappy Czech Pils use S23. I have made and medaled with Czech Pils with plain old 2124. It lacks the diacytel of 2001, but has a nice malty back bone, hops come out beautifully and for me, I don’t miss the butter. I don’t care if they say that yeast is Czech, it sucks. No one ever said they wished their Czech Pils was fruity.

To me the beer should be malty with a firm, but subdued bitterness. Nice hop flavor, but not too much. The Czech Pils is born in the mash tun. Either do a decoction mash or have 30% Vienna malt in the grain bill, but get the malt character up and let the yeast do the rest.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 17, 2022, 02:46:42 pm
Noooooo!  If you want a crappy Czech Pils use S23. I have made and medaled with Czech Pils with plain old 2124. It lacks the diacytel of 2001, but has a nice malty back bone, hops come out beautifully and for me, I don’t miss the butter. I don’t care if they say that yeast is Czech, it sucks. No one ever said they wished their Czech Pils was fruity.

To me the beer should be malty with a firm, but subdued bitterness. Nice hop flavor, but not too much. The Czech Pils is born in the mash tun. Either do a decoction mash or have 30% Vienna malt in the grain bill, but get the malt character up and let the yeast do the rest.

So 2124 is the Carlsberg type yeast. Never thought about using that one. It calls for a diacetyl rest.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: Iliff Ave on April 17, 2022, 04:30:06 pm
S23
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 17, 2022, 05:39:38 pm
S23

Never tried this yeast. Have you used it in a Premium Czech Pils?
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: Iliff Ave on April 17, 2022, 05:59:12 pm
S23

Never tried this yeast. Have you used it in a Premium Czech Pils?
Yes. Pretty sure some others here have had good results with it recently.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: HighVoltageMan! on April 17, 2022, 06:25:19 pm
Noooooo!  If you want a crappy Czech Pils use S23. I have made and medaled with Czech Pils with plain old 2124. It lacks the diacytel of 2001, but has a nice malty back bone, hops come out beautifully and for me, I don’t miss the butter. I don’t care if they say that yeast is Czech, it sucks. No one ever said they wished their Czech Pils was fruity.

To me the beer should be malty with a firm, but subdued bitterness. Nice hop flavor, but not too much. The Czech Pils is born in the mash tun. Either do a decoction mash or have 30% Vienna malt in the grain bill, but get the malt character up and let the yeast do the rest.

So 2124 is the Carlsberg type yeast. Never thought about using that one. It calls for a diacetyl rest.

2124 is supposedly 34/70 or Weinhestephan  lager yeast. I do a diacytel rest, although it may not be necessary. I have used S23 multiple times and I cannot get the fruitiness out of the beer. There are so many good yeasts out there, why S23? Why not Diamond yeast? Most lager strains are very closely related, often the difference between them is often without distinction.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 17, 2022, 06:36:31 pm
Noooooo!  If you want a crappy Czech Pils use S23. I have made and medaled with Czech Pils with plain old 2124. It lacks the diacytel of 2001, but has a nice malty back bone, hops come out beautifully and for me, I don’t miss the butter. I don’t care if they say that yeast is Czech, it sucks. No one ever said they wished their Czech Pils was fruity.

To me the beer should be malty with a firm, but subdued bitterness. Nice hop flavor, but not too much. The Czech Pils is born in the mash tun. Either do a decoction mash or have 30% Vienna malt in the grain bill, but get the malt character up and let the yeast do the rest.

So 2124 is the Carlsberg type yeast. Never thought about using that one. It calls for a diacetyl rest.

2124 is supposedly 34/70 or Weinhestephan  lager yeast. I do a diacytel rest, although it may not be necessary. I have used S23 multiple times and I cannot get the fruitiness out of the beer. There are so many good yeasts out there, why S23? Why not Diamond yeast? Most lager strains are very closely related, often the difference between them is often without distinction.

Yes, Diamond will be used, but the plan is to do a split batch, using two different yeasts. This is not for competition, just something that we want to brew for ourselves.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: MDL on April 17, 2022, 09:39:25 pm
I think Diamond is great for German pils. I get a nice touch of sulfur out of it that works well for a crisp finish of a German pils. I personally think the sulfur would be out of place in the Bo pils. Others may not get much sulfur from Diamond. Could be because I like a bit of sulfate in my germannpils water and I also spund. The sulfur seems to kick up during spunding.

To my tastes there is a distinct subtle fruitiness in the Pilsner Urquel when tasted fresh at the brewery, even more evident in the young beer out of the wooden lagering tanks. The Berlin strain has this subtle fruitiness. 
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 18, 2022, 05:09:13 am
I think Diamond is great for German pils. I get a nice touch of sulfur out of it that works well for a crisp finish of a German pils. I personally think the sulfur would be out of place in the Bo pils. Others may not get much sulfur from Diamond. Could be because I like a bit of sulfate in my germannpils water and I also spund. The sulfur seems to kick up during spunding.

To my tastes there is a distinct subtle fruitiness in the Pilsner Urquel when tasted fresh at the brewery, even more evident in the young beer out of the wooden lagering tanks. The Berlin strain has this subtle fruitiness.

Never noticed any sulfur in the finished beer with Diamond. As we do not add chemicals to our water, perhaps this could be the reason. Not sure.
Just bought a 6 pack of Pilsner Urquell. It was at the end of it's 9 month shelf life, and did not taste fresh at all. An strong off-malt aroma was present. And it carried through in the flavor.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: denny on April 18, 2022, 07:18:31 am
Noooooo!  If you want a crappy Czech Pils use S23. I have made and medaled with Czech Pils with plain old 2124. It lacks the diacytel of 2001, but has a nice malty back bone, hops come out beautifully and for me, I don’t miss the butter. I don’t care if they say that yeast is Czech, it sucks. No one ever said they wished their Czech Pils was fruity.

To me the beer should be malty with a firm, but subdued bitterness. Nice hop flavor, but not too much. The Czech Pils is born in the mash tun. Either do a decoction mash or have 30% Vienna malt in the grain bill, but get the malt character up and let the yeast do the rest.

So 2124 is the Carlsberg type yeast. Never thought about using that one. It calls for a diacetyl rest.

That doesn't necessarily mean it needs one.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: HopDen on April 18, 2022, 08:00:36 am
I have used 34/70, S-23, S-189 & OYL-106 with varying degrees of success meaning they did what was described they would do. With that said, I prefer 34/70 over the others. Wy-2001 if I can find it will be next. I have played with ferm temp from 48* on 34/70 up to 55*. I can't say there was much difference at least that I could perceive. The other yeasts were fermented at 48,50 & 50 respectively. In my opinion, as it was previously stated, a decoction would be proper but certainly not necessary.I do not decoction mash (yet). Until I try Wy-2001 and compare with 34/70 my preference is 34/70 @48 with a DR @ 65 with 10 or so points of gravity left.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: Steve Ruch on April 18, 2022, 08:04:54 am
Quote from: denny


So 2124 is the Carlsberg type yeast. Never thought about using that one. It calls for a diacetyl rest.

That doesn't necessarily mean it needs one.
[/quote]
☝ this.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 18, 2022, 11:14:03 am
Quote from: denny


So 2124 is the Carlsberg type yeast. Never thought about using that one. It calls for a diacetyl rest.

That doesn't necessarily mean it needs one.
☝ this.
[/quote]

Ok, we never do a D-rest.
So, 2124 is the recommendation on yeast?
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: denny on April 18, 2022, 01:11:24 pm
Quote from: denny


So 2124 is the Carlsberg type yeast. Never thought about using that one. It calls for a diacetyl rest.

That doesn't necessarily mean it needs one.
☝ this.

Ok, we never do a D-rest.
So, 2124 is the recommendation on yeast?
[/quote]

It's a good yeast, but I haven't used it since I found Diamond.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: HighVoltageMan! on April 18, 2022, 03:23:14 pm
Quote from: denny


So 2124 is the Carlsberg type yeast. Never thought about using that one. It calls for a diacetyl rest.

That doesn't necessarily mean it needs one.
☝ this.

Ok, we never do a D-rest.
So, 2124 is the recommendation on yeast?

It's a good yeast, but I haven't used it since I found Diamond.
[/quote]

I concur. It’s a very good yeast, I believe it’s the best selling lager yeast for Wyeast. Slightly more malty than Fermentis 34/70, very clean, low sulfur.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: erockrph on April 25, 2022, 09:01:34 am
There are several options for yeast:

Diamond Lager
Wyeast 2007 Pilsen Lager
Wyeast 2278 Czech Pils
Wyeast 2001 PC H Strain

Any suggestions here? Other brands? Saflager strains?
We are going for the classic Czech Pilsner profile, with Saaz hops, Czech malt, soft water, decoction mash, etc.

Sorry for the late reply, but I think you're on the right track with 2124 or 34/70. I haven't used Diamond yet, so I can't comment on that.

I will say that WY2007 is not a yeast I'd want to use for this style. It's the Bud yeast (allegedly), and every time I've used it my beer has an unmistakeable flavor that reminds me of Busch products. Too bad, it performs well and is very forgiving of warmer temps. I just can't get past the taste.

I use WY2278 quite often. It amplifies hop flavor, makes a crisp-finishing beer, and drops clear quickly. Even though it is labeled "Czech Pils", I prefer it for German Pils, IPL's and other hybrid lager styles where I want to accentuate the hops.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 28, 2022, 07:31:41 am
There are several options for yeast:

Diamond Lager
Wyeast 2007 Pilsen Lager
Wyeast 2278 Czech Pils
Wyeast 2001 PC H Strain

Any suggestions here? Other brands? Saflager strains?
We are going for the classic Czech Pilsner profile, with Saaz hops, Czech malt, soft water, decoction mash, etc.

Sorry for the late reply, but I think you're on the right track with 2124 or 34/70. I haven't used Diamond yet, so I can't comment on that.

I will say that WY2007 is not a yeast I'd want to use for this style. It's the Bud yeast (allegedly), and every time I've used it my beer has an unmistakeable flavor that reminds me of Busch products. Too bad, it performs well and is very forgiving of warmer temps. I just can't get past the taste.

I use WY2278 quite often. It amplifies hop flavor, makes a crisp-finishing beer, and drops clear quickly. Even though it is labeled "Czech Pils", I prefer it for German Pils, IPL's and other hybrid lager styles where I want to accentuate the hops.

Thanks for your input!

Based on the responses here, two packs of Wyeast 2124 were purchased. A 10 gallon, split batch will be brewed. Very tempting to do one with Diamond, as we have had such good results with it...most of the time. Particulary in German lagers...Pils, Schwarzbier and Festbier.

My Diamond harvested yeast slurry is so many generations old, I may just start over with fresh 1st generation yeast.

W-34/70 is another one, although this yeast fell out of favor with us after trying Diamond.
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: scrap iron on April 29, 2022, 06:42:27 am
I brewed a Bo Pils about a year ago with WY 2001 PC , said to be PU yeast. The beer came out great, one of my best. I entered it in very large contest and
metaled and went on to a mini BOS round. The next time I brewed it the WY 2001 was no longer available so I used WY 2124. I had used 2124 in some beers before, Vienna, German Pils and one other I can't remember right now. That beer went on to medal and mini BOS round also. I can say Wy 2124 worked well in these styles.
I have recently bought some dry yeast, Diamond for a Vienna, and Mangrove Jacks 84 Bo- Lager for another Bo- Pils. The Vienna is conditioning now and the Bo-Pils is in the fermenter. The MJ 84 is supposed to be PU yeast so I'll see how they compare to the others. I also bought some S-189 that I'll try in a Baltic Porter later this summer for drinking this Winter. 
Title: Re: Best Yeast For Premium Czech Pils
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 29, 2022, 11:41:55 am
I brewed a Bo Pils about a year ago with WY 2001 PC , said to be PU yeast. The beer came out great, one of my best. I entered it in very large contest and
metaled and went on to a mini BOS round. The next time I brewed it the WY 2001 was no longer available so I used WY 2124. I had used 2124 in some beers before, Vienna, German Pils and one other I can't remember right now. That beer went on to medal and mini BOS round also. I can say Wy 2124 worked well in these styles.
I have recently bought some dry yeast, Diamond for a Vienna, and Mangrove Jacks 84 Bo- Lager for another Bo- Pils. The Vienna is conditioning now and the Bo-Pils is in the fermenter. The MJ 84 is supposed to be PU yeast so I'll see how they compare to the others. I also bought some S-189 that I'll try in a Baltic Porter later this summer for drinking this Winter.

Very interesting, good to know, and congratulations on your medals!

Looking forward to trying the 2124.