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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: majorvices on November 03, 2009, 06:17:48 PM

Title: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: majorvices on November 03, 2009, 06:17:48 PM
I want to try someething different with my kolsch and want to FWH with crystal. I know Denny is the FWH guru. I also know he has walked me through this before... :-\

Anyway, I am going to brew this tomorrow - let;s say I want to to a FWH ONLY kolsch with crystal, targeting about 28 IBUs - how do I do this?
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: denny on November 03, 2009, 07:25:22 PM
The way I would do it would be to calc the FWH hops as a 20 min. IBU contribution, then use as much as you need to hit your 28 IBU.  If you use Promash and do a 60 min. boil, that would mean setting your FWH utilization to -65.
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: majorvices on November 03, 2009, 07:58:39 PM
Thanks - I don't have ProMash. That's cool that there is a FWH utilization on it. I don't think there was when I used it.

I'm going to try it tomorrow and see how it goes.
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: jds on November 04, 2009, 07:46:53 PM
The way I would do it would be to calc the FWH hops as a 20 min. IBU contribution, then use as much as you need to hit your 28 IBU.  If you use Promash and do a 60 min. boil, that would mean setting your FWH utilization to -65.

Can you please explain to me why FWH is calculated this way? Is it because of the change in perception of bitterness from FWH, or does FWH really result in reduced utilization compared to a 60-minute addition? I really like the quality of bitterness I get from FWH additions, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept that longer time in the wort = lower utilization.

Thanks
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: denny on November 04, 2009, 08:00:56 PM
The way I would do it would be to calc the FWH hops as a 20 min. IBU contribution, then use as much as you need to hit your 28 IBU.  If you use Promash and do a 60 min. boil, that would mean setting your FWH utilization to -65.

Can you please explain to me why FWH is calculated this way? Is it because of the change in perception of bitterness from FWH, or does FWH really result in reduced utilization compared to a 60-minute addition? I really like the quality of bitterness I get from FWH additions, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept that longer time in the wort = lower utilization.

Thanks

It's strictly subjective.  I've had beers analyzed that were FWH and hopped with an equal amount of the same hops at 60 min.  The FWH beers measured about 10% more IBU than the 60 min. beer, but in a blind triangle tasting were subjectively judged to have less bitterness.  It's because of chemical changes that take place when the hops are steeped in wort.  This article http://www.franklinbrew.org/brewinfo/brauweltfwh.html may shed some light on the subject.
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: jds on November 04, 2009, 09:18:24 PM
Thanks, Denny. That's just what I was looking for.
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: majorvices on November 05, 2009, 08:51:41 PM
Well, habit really got in the way on this one. I was at 190 degrees before I remembered the FWHops. Next time.
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: dean on November 07, 2009, 02:59:48 PM
The way I would do it would be to calc the FWH hops as a 20 min. IBU contribution, then use as much as you need to hit your 28 IBU.  If you use Promash and do a 60 min. boil, that would mean setting your FWH utilization to -65.

Can you please explain to me why FWH is calculated this way? Is it because of the change in perception of bitterness from FWH, or does FWH really result in reduced utilization compared to a 60-minute addition? I really like the quality of bitterness I get from FWH additions, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept that longer time in the wort = lower utilization.

Thanks

There is an explanation of it in John Palmer's book "How To Brew".  You can also read it online free if  you do a search for it.   ;)
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: jds on November 07, 2009, 04:27:43 PM
There is an explanation of it in John Palmer's book "How To Brew".  You can also read it online free if  you do a search for it.   ;)

Thanks.  I've read the bit in the online version a number of times, but the explanation of why FWH works in the described manner doesn't really explain it to me. It's the Engineer's curse -- I like details.  Denny's explanation was better, and the study he linked to cleared it up totally for me.
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: babalu87 on November 07, 2009, 10:10:13 PM
Well, habit really got in the way on this one. I was at 190 degrees before I remembered the FWHops. Next time.

Next time just put them in the kettle when you measure them out  ;)

mmmyeah. Thanks for the tip.  ::) :P
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: woody on November 08, 2009, 01:59:59 AM
I have 10 gallons of German pils that I FWH with hallertau and an IPA that's in the secondary that I FWH with centennial.  Can't wait to see how they turn out!   They certainly smelled nice while the wort was coming to a boil
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: blatz on November 09, 2009, 10:17:42 PM
I have 10 gallons of German pils that I FWH with hallertau

be sure to let me know what you think.  I am finishing up the second keg of a GP with Hallertau and Tettnang as the FWH.

It had been about 2 years since I had FWHed as I had actively moved away from this method, so I figured I would give it a go again to see if anything had changed.  Nope, same result - I just don't like it, doesn't work for me.

This pils had much less hop flavor and much more hop bite than my last where I used a traditional hop schedule (same hops, yeast and malt bill, just switched my 2oz of 20 min Hall and Tett to FWH).  Granted, not a scientific experiment in the least - lots of variables at play, but it was enough evidence doesn't make sense for me to use it anymore.

I'm interested to hear what your impressions are, Keith, when you remember to do it next time.  ;)

Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: majorvices on November 09, 2009, 11:19:47 PM

I'm interested to hear what your impressions are, Keith, when you remember to do it next time.  ;)


I am going to brew it again and will FWH it as soon as this fermentation is finished.
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on November 10, 2009, 03:41:13 AM
I am just drinking FWH and 80 min Halletauer Kolsh.
It is more bitter then I expected but I do not know if it is because of FWH or 80 min addition.
Let me know how it turned out.
28 IBU sounds about right.
By the way when I compare comercial (red label and do not remember the name) to my kolsh I was in ball park :). 
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: tappedout on November 12, 2009, 03:16:23 PM
My (admittedly one) experience w/ FWHing, tasted yummy, but the boil seemed like it really wanted to boil over, much more than when I just add bittering hops.  Anyone else notice this, or am I all wet?
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: woody on November 12, 2009, 10:13:08 PM
I didn't notice any difference at the start of the boil.  I believe in noonan's book he suggests adding hops before the boil starts to help prevent boilovers.  The hops break the surface tension so it doesn't throw up a big hot break
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: woody on November 20, 2009, 11:36:28 PM
I have 10 gallons of German pils that I FWH with hallertau

be sure to let me know what you think.  I am finishing up the second keg of a GP with Hallertau and Tettnang as the FWH.

It had been about 2 years since I had FWHed as I had actively moved away from this method, so I figured I would give it a go again to see if anything had changed.  Nope, same result - I just don't like it, doesn't work for me.

This pils had much less hop flavor and much more hop bite than my last where I used a traditional hop schedule (same hops, yeast and malt bill, just switched my 2oz of 20 min Hall and Tett to FWH).  Granted, not a scientific experiment in the least - lots of variables at play, but it was enough evidence doesn't make sense for me to use it anymore.

I'm interested to hear what your impressions are, Keith, when you remember to do it next time.  ;)
Just starting to try out my FWH German Pils (1 oz hallertau for 10 gallons)     Agreed, it has too sharp of a hop bite.   The regular hop schedule I used last time was a lot softer (and better!)   Not that its terrible mind you, its just a little too much. 
 If there is one benefit, the wife didn't care much for the sharpnesss so I've got 2 kegs of Pilsner to myself!   
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: vpsihop1 on November 22, 2009, 03:28:07 AM
Quote
Agreed, it has too sharp of a hop bite.   The regular hop schedule I used last time was a lot softer (and better!)
  this is interesting ive found just the opposite on a DIPA and ESB i did. way smooth bitterness (to much so on teh DIPA) and intense flavor.
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: Thirsty_Monk on November 22, 2009, 11:26:23 PM
I already stated in another thread:
I did FWH with Hallertau and Saaz in couple of beers.
All of them had quite harsh hop aftertaste.
I do not consider this very pleasing.
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: babalu87 on November 29, 2009, 04:07:19 AM
My (admittedly one) experience w/ FWHing, tasted yummy, but the boil seemed like it really wanted to boil over, much more than when I just add bittering hops.  Anyone else notice this, or am I all wet?

Adding hops prior to the boil helps with those issues from what I know.
Title: Re: Help me FWH my Kolsch
Post by: majorvices on November 29, 2009, 12:48:06 PM
When you add hops before the boil the hops tend to coat the surface of the wort and this can cause a lot of tension to build under the "hop blanket" and it can almost explode if you don't keep an eye on it. I have a 14 gallon kettle and I fill it up almost to the top. I stand there while it is trying to boil and use my spoon to break up the surface tension, and I also turn down the heat right when the first sign of surface aggravation appears. Very rarely do I ever have much of a boil over - sometimes a little foam manages to spill over the lip.

Now, if I am not watching it I will certainly have a boil over and doubly so with FWH beers, which would be bad because no telling how much hops you will lose.