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General Category => Ingredients => Topic started by: Megary on April 25, 2022, 01:25:48 pm

Title: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: Megary on April 25, 2022, 01:25:48 pm
I have a 3-gallon batch of "Coconut" Porter fermenting right now.  Except, so far I don't have much coconut flavor.

At knockout, I added 1 - 7oz bag of toasted organic, unsweetened coconut.  The coconut steeped for about 5 minutes hot, and then steeped for another 45 minutes or so as my wort cooled to 65°.  At that point I transferred the wort to the fermenter and left the coconut behind.  A sample taste was underwhelming as there was little coconut flavor present in the wort.  Some, yes.  But not enough to have me convinced it will survive fermentation.  Call it step 1 in building a flavor profile.

However, I kind of expected this, and I do have a second 7oz bag on hand to use as a "dry hop", post-fermentation.  I expect this addition to pack a far bigger punch.  The plan is to taste again after 3-4 days and then rack to the keg, possibly with a bit of vanilla as a flavor enhancer.  Step 2.

But...

If I still find myself short on coconut taste and aroma, has anyone ever added Coconut spirits at packaging as a boost?  I'm thinking something along the lines of Kōloa Coconut Rum or the like.  I could make a tincture, but I really don't want to.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: narvin on April 25, 2022, 02:41:01 pm
If you're gonna cheat, why not cheat directly with coconut flavoring?  I doubt there's actually much real coconut in flavored spirits either.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/McCormick-Coconut-Extract-2-fl-oz/405491759
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: Megary on April 25, 2022, 03:29:19 pm
If you're gonna cheat, why not cheat directly with coconut flavoring?  I doubt there's actually much real coconut in flavored spirits either.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/McCormick-Coconut-Extract-2-fl-oz/405491759
Definite possibility.  Great idea.

Of course…it would be more fun finishing the Rum.   ;D
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: narvin on April 27, 2022, 07:15:06 am
If you're gonna cheat, why not cheat directly with coconut flavoring?  I doubt there's actually much real coconut in flavored spirits either.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/McCormick-Coconut-Extract-2-fl-oz/405491759
Definite possibility.  Great idea.

Of course…it would be more fun finishing the Rum.   ;D

Absolutely, and blending with spirits is something that a homebrewer can do that pro brewers can't  :D
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: KellerBrauer on April 27, 2022, 07:21:33 am
If you're gonna cheat, why not cheat directly with coconut flavoring?  I doubt there's actually much real coconut in flavored spirits either.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/McCormick-Coconut-Extract-2-fl-oz/405491759

I use this extract in my yogurt and it works quite well.  I urge caution, however. It can overcome and become dominant.
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: dmtaylor on April 27, 2022, 09:41:27 am
Coconut extract wins awards.
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 27, 2022, 03:31:28 pm
Coconut extract wins awards.

Voice of experience?
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: dmtaylor on April 27, 2022, 05:57:32 pm
Coconut extract wins awards.

Voice of experience?

Not my own, but that of others.
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: Semper Sitientem on April 27, 2022, 07:40:17 pm
 I could make a tincture, but I really don't want to.

I tried a tincture twice with a Porter and it didn’t work well. Added more vodka flavor to the beer than coconut. Go with extract.
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: Bel Air Brewing on April 27, 2022, 07:43:43 pm
Coconut extract wins awards.

Voice of experience?

Not my own, but that of others.

I would be very curious to try this. Might put it on the "to do" list!
Had a very nice Coconut Porter on tap in Hawaii.

https://mauibrewingco.com/discover_beer/coconut-hiwa-porter/
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: brewthru on April 28, 2022, 07:11:12 pm
Coconut extract
https://homebrewing.org/products/natural-coconut-flavoring-extract-4-oz
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: ttash on April 29, 2022, 10:55:58 am
I know this won't help with your current batch, but I've made lots of coconut beers and I've always had great results with using toasted organic coconut flakes post fermentation for 5 to 7 days prior to kegging. 1 pound per 5 gallons does the trick for me, as always YMMV. 🍺
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: Megary on April 29, 2022, 12:06:29 pm
I know this won't help with your current batch, but I've made lots of coconut beers and I've always had great results with using toasted organic coconut flakes post fermentation for 5 to 7 days prior to kegging. 1 pound per 5 gallons does the trick for me, as always YMMV. 🍺
That most certainly helps.  My fermentation is just winding down now, and my plan is to "dry hop" with 7oz of organic, unsweetened coconut in primary.  The extract/coconut spirits question is more of a "just in case" situation.

I intend on bagging the coconut for the dry hop.  Will it float or sink?  I could add the coconut loose if that would be a better way to incorporate the flavor... and just deal with the transfer-to-keg repercussions later.
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: ttash on April 30, 2022, 10:51:40 am
I know this won't help with your current batch, but I've made lots of coconut beers and I've always had great results with using toasted organic coconut flakes post fermentation for 5 to 7 days prior to kegging. 1 pound per 5 gallons does the trick for me, as always YMMV. 🍺
That most certainly helps.  My fermentation is just winding down now, and my plan is to "dry hop" with 7oz of organic, unsweetened coconut in primary.  The extract/coconut spirits question is more of a "just in case" situation.

I intend on bagging the coconut for the dry hop.  Will it float or sink?  I could add the coconut loose if that would be a better way to incorporate the flavor... and just deal with the transfer-to-keg repercussions later.

I usually bag the coconut for ease of removal prior to transferring to the keg. It does tend to float so I weigh the bag down. As long as the bag isn't too tight or full you shouldn't have any problems incorporating that delicious aroma and flavor of coconut.
Good luck! I love coconut infused beer. 🍺
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: HopDen on April 30, 2022, 04:29:53 pm
Out on a limb here but what about adding coconut water post fermentation? Either canned which "should" be sterilized from the canning process or straight from some coconuts? I think it just might add the nuance you're looking for.
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: Megary on May 01, 2022, 04:01:20 pm
Added a second charge of coconut today.

3 gallon batch.
First addition - 7oz toasted organic, unsweetened coconut at flameout and steeped for about 50 minutes as the wort was cooling to pitch temp.  (Little effect)
Second addition - 7oz toasted organic, unsweetened coconut as a “dry hop”, post fermentation, in primary.

I will be kegging this beer either Wednesday or Thursday.  Unfortunately, Life is going to dictate how long the coconut dry hop gets to do it’s thing.  Either 3 or 4 days.  If the flavor is still lacking, I will add a keg addition of either coconut extract or coconut rum.  Not sure which yet.
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: Megary on May 05, 2022, 08:07:18 am
Kegged the beer this morning.

While the coconut aroma was mild at best, the flavor was clear and present.  Taste of this Porter was slightly sweet and coconuty.  So I'm hopeful, deciding to err on the side of caution and not add a cheater to the keg.  If the coconut fades by the time this is all carbed up, I can always add a smidge of Coconut Rum to the glass, but I don't think it will be necessary.  At least not at first, maybe if it sits for 2, 3, 4 weeks...
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: denny on May 05, 2022, 08:32:16 am
I don't understand why it's cheating
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: Megary on May 05, 2022, 08:39:22 am
I don't understand why it's cheating

It's not.
It's just a shameless use of language by me in order to cause a strong reaction and possibly coax a few replies.   :)
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: denny on May 05, 2022, 09:03:53 am
I don't understand why it's cheating

It's not.
It's just a shameless use of language by me in order to cause a strong reaction and possibly coax a few replies.   :)

 ;D
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: ttash on May 05, 2022, 09:57:56 am
Kegged the beer this morning.

While the coconut aroma was mild at best, the flavor was clear and present.  Taste of this Porter was slightly sweet and coconuty.  So I'm hopeful, deciding to err on the side of caution and not add a cheater to the keg.  If the coconut fades by the time this is all carbed up, I can always add a smidge of Coconut Rum to the glass, but I don't think it will be necessary.  At least not at first, maybe if it sits for 2, 3, 4 weeks...

In my experience adding coconut anywhere on the hot side or during fermentation gives me negligible results. For the most impact and for the freshest flavor and aroma I add all of it post fermentation prior to kegging. Adjust the quantity to suit your taste. 🥥🍺
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: jeffy on May 05, 2022, 10:09:09 am
I don't understand why it's cheating

It's not.
It's just a shameless use of language by me in order to cause a strong reaction and possibly coax a few replies.   :)

 ;D
There's a Florida homebrew competition called the Coconut Cup and every time I see this topic come up I think somebody is cheating at that competition.
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: Megary on May 05, 2022, 10:40:46 am
Kegged the beer this morning.

While the coconut aroma was mild at best, the flavor was clear and present.  Taste of this Porter was slightly sweet and coconuty.  So I'm hopeful, deciding to err on the side of caution and not add a cheater to the keg.  If the coconut fades by the time this is all carbed up, I can always add a smidge of Coconut Rum to the glass, but I don't think it will be necessary.  At least not at first, maybe if it sits for 2, 3, 4 weeks...

In my experience adding coconut anywhere on the hot side or during fermentation gives me negligible results. For the most impact and for the freshest flavor and aroma I add all of it post fermentation prior to kegging. Adjust the quantity to suit your taste. 🥥🍺

That is exactly what I learned from all of this.  And I will wait to taste the finished beer to see if I added too much or not enough post fermentation. 
What has been your experience with the staying power of the coconut flavor?  I'm assuming it will mellow and then fade completely with time.
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: fredthecat on May 05, 2022, 10:57:25 am
Kegged the beer this morning.

While the coconut aroma was mild at best, the flavor was clear and present.  Taste of this Porter was slightly sweet and coconuty.  So I'm hopeful, deciding to err on the side of caution and not add a cheater to the keg.  If the coconut fades by the time this is all carbed up, I can always add a smidge of Coconut Rum to the glass, but I don't think it will be necessary.  At least not at first, maybe if it sits for 2, 3, 4 weeks...

how's the head on the beer? that is something i've always wondered about adding say coconut pieces or other things like that
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: Megary on May 05, 2022, 11:07:37 am
Kegged the beer this morning.

While the coconut aroma was mild at best, the flavor was clear and present.  Taste of this Porter was slightly sweet and coconuty.  So I'm hopeful, deciding to err on the side of caution and not add a cheater to the keg.  If the coconut fades by the time this is all carbed up, I can always add a smidge of Coconut Rum to the glass, but I don't think it will be necessary.  At least not at first, maybe if it sits for 2, 3, 4 weeks...

how's the head on the beer? that is something i've always wondered about adding say coconut pieces or other things like that

Just kegged it this morning.  First pour will probably be late next week.  I'm a bit curious myself as to head, head retention and lacing.
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: ttash on May 05, 2022, 01:53:18 pm
Kegged the beer this morning.

While the coconut aroma was mild at best, the flavor was clear and present.  Taste of this Porter was slightly sweet and coconuty.  So I'm hopeful, deciding to err on the side of caution and not add a cheater to the keg.  If the coconut fades by the time this is all carbed up, I can always add a smidge of Coconut Rum to the glass, but I don't think it will be necessary.  At least not at first, maybe if it sits for 2, 3, 4 weeks...

In my experience adding coconut anywhere on the hot side or during fermentation gives me negligible results. For the most impact and for the freshest flavor and aroma I add all of it post fermentation prior to kegging. Adjust the quantity to suit your taste. 🥥🍺

That is exactly what I learned from all of this.  And I will wait to taste the finished beer to see if I added too much or not enough post fermentation. 
What has been your experience with the staying power of the coconut flavor?  I'm assuming it will mellow and then fade completely with time.

It's a lot like dry hops in IPA, it does mellow and fade with time but doesn't completely go away. Like IPA, the fresher the better.
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: ttash on May 05, 2022, 02:04:01 pm
Kegged the beer this morning.

While the coconut aroma was mild at best, the flavor was clear and present.  Taste of this Porter was slightly sweet and coconuty.  So I'm hopeful, deciding to err on the side of caution and not add a cheater to the keg.  If the coconut fades by the time this is all carbed up, I can always add a smidge of Coconut Rum to the glass, but I don't think it will be necessary.  At least not at first, maybe if it sits for 2, 3, 4 weeks...

how's the head on the beer? that is something i've always wondered about adding say coconut pieces or other things like that

Just kegged it this morning.  First pour will probably be late next week.  I'm a bit curious myself as to head, head retention and lacing.

I hear this a lot. In my experience I haven't had any problems with head retention. But I always toast the coconut first, which draws out the oil and leaves it behind, in addition to improving the aroma. I've used this technique commercially and at home with great success. YMMV of course.
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: Megary on May 13, 2022, 07:32:43 pm
First taste, 8 days after kegging:

Aroma is chocolate Porter with notes of toasted coconut.  Admittedly, the coconut might be missed if you aren’t looking for it, but it’s there.
Taste has a clear toasted coconut flavor, followed by a nice English Porter chocolate/caramel flavor. 
Head and foam retention are average, moderate lacing on the glass.

Really enjoying this beer.  Nit-picking, I *might* reconsider toasting the coconut.  It’s funny how obvious it is that the coconut was toasted.  And I only slightly colored the pure white coconut, just pushing the edges to brown.  The coconut sweetness has disappeared, leaving a baked, browned coconut flavor.  It’s very good, and I suppose it’s appropriate given this is a Porter, but now I’m really wondering how a sweeter flavor might mesh?? 

Maybe next time I’ll toast half the coconut, leave the other half pure?  Maybe I could add a bit more than 7ozs as a dry hop?   

Definitely will be making this again. 
Title: Re: Cheating at Coconut
Post by: fredthecat on May 13, 2022, 08:37:53 pm
check for premade coconut flavourings. i had a coconut water recently that just had the kind of bright, in your face character that i took for coconut flavouring added. it was totally great tasting though, not artificial at all.